Senior Shafts....a semi ignorged demographic

[Onesavant]

As a retired teaching professional, who used to play to aa scratch hcp. for over 35 years---now in my 70's, I have adjusted my shafts through the years to accommodate my changing swing speed. Adjusting flex, weight, torque, and kick point, I have managed to remain a single digit golfer.  Now in my mid 70's, I have noticed a very limited choice of shafts that seniors can play and get the assistance from the shaft, that they deserve.  I have a very

good swing, but at my age I would like a little more engineered technology in my shaft selection.  Most of you will not know this until you reach my age, that a little help, wouldn't hurt.  Your swing is slower, your compression is softer, so getting the ball up in the air, could be made easier with the shaft companies, offering one of the largest golf playing segments more selection.  We are the golfers with the time and the money to play golf regularly, yet you have seemed to have forgotten us.

[RickyBobby_PR]

There’s numerous options from UST mamiya in their irons and they have a great lightweight extremely stable driver/wood shaft in the helium and offer numerous other senior flexes or reg flex. Not that the flex is relevant since there’s not standard as to what’s stiff, regular, senior. Many brands offer them as stock in irons and minimal upcharge in woods.
 
Other brands offer lightweight driver woods shafts. True temper has the catalyst iron shafts that are lightweight.

 

 

[Kenny B]

I agree with @Onesavant.  Yes UST Mamiya has a good selection of iron shafts with the Recoils being quite good, but I don't think they are maximized for slow swing speeds, and UST is better than most manufacturers.  So, I hear it all the time... slow swing speed so get a lighter shaft to swing faster.  I've tried it in irons and driver.  The Helium may be a nice shaft but lightweight shafts don't work for me., at least I haven't found one that does.  I'm sure it's difficult to make a heavier shaft that optimizes slower swing speeds; maybe it's not possible, but I haven't seen anyone give it much effort either.

[RickyBobby_PR]

10 hours ago, Kenny B said:

I agree with @Onesavant.  Yes UST Mamiya has a good selection of iron shafts with the Recoils being quite good, but I don't think they are maximized for slow swing speeds, and UST is better than most manufacturers.  So, I hear it all the time... slow swing speed so get a lighter shaft to swing faster.  I've tried it in irons and driver.  The Helium may be a nice shaft but lightweight shafts don't work for me., at least I haven't found one that does.  I'm sure it's difficult to make a heavier shaft that optimizes slower swing speeds; maybe it's not possible, but I haven't seen anyone give it much effort either.

It’s not just about weight or flex or even age. Like non senior golfers that come in all sizes, shapes, strength and swing speeds there are all kinds of seniors. One of the guys who got me playing golf played heavy stiff flex shafts until he was in his mid 60s while maintaining a sub 5 hdcp. Others I still play with in that same age range had to switch to lighter or softer shafts.

There are tons of options in steel and graphite for irons and all kinds of weights and designs in woods. It’s another reason why getting fit instead of just looking at certain aspects of a shaft. 

[ZenGolfer]

IMO, part of the problem with that end of the market is that companies think that most golfers with slower swing speeds just arent very good and arent willing to invest the time and money in finding the right shaft for them.  

Its kind of like in womens' clubs, where they seem to spend more time worrying about color schemes and graphics than they do about what the actual right shaft is.

[John W Sutch]

Am in the same age range as you. Playing  UST Helium shafts in my woods. Bought  a set of PIng G700s with Factory graphite senior flex shafts. Am happy with those choices.

[bens197]

Am in the same age range as you. Playing  UST Helium shafts in my woods. Bought  a set of PIng G700s with Factory graphite senior flex shafts. Am happy with those choices.

PING has taken enormous pride in the development and engineering of their OEM shafts for many years. I’ve seen many golfers hit their optimum numbers playing what are otherwise known as “stock shafts.”

[RickyBobby_PR]

10 hours ago, John W Sutch said:

Am in the same age range as you. Playing  UST Helium shafts in my woods. Bought  a set of PIng G700s with Factory graphite senior flex shafts. Am happy with those choices.

I love the helium shaft and have had it in my driver or fw since 2016 and is an option I’m considering for going into my sim max once we are back to golfing. I’m far from a senior. I have friends who are younger with over 100mph that play it as well

[tony@CIC]

11 hours ago, bens197 said:

PING has taken enormous pride in the development and engineering of their OEM shafts for many years. I’ve seen many golfers hit their optimum numbers playing what are otherwise known as “stock shafts.”

Interestingly, when I had my fitting, he recommended the Alta CB65 stock shaft in regular flex (1/2" shorter) for the 410, and that's with an 80 mph SS. So at least in my case the stock shaft worked. 

[TENBUCK]

Not taking anything away from custom shafts, but I tried going that route a few years ago and I was all over the place even with a fitting. I'm not looking to get that last extra 5 yards in carry or lower my spin for a 40 yard roll, I just want the ball in the short grass so I can have a good second shot. For some custom shafts will work out, that great, for me, the club OEM's have engineers as to give a good balance between distance and spin, I'll go with their recommendations.

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, TENBUCK said:

Not taking anything away from custom shafts, but I tried going that route a few years ago and I was all over the place even with a fitting. I'm not looking to get that last extra 5 yards in carry or lower my spin for a 40 yard roll, I just want the ball in the short grass so I can have a good second shot. For some custom shafts will work out, that great, for me, the club OEM's have engineers as to give a good balance between distance and spin, I'll go with their recommendations.

Club oems have multiple non custom shaft options so which recommendation do you go with?  Callaway has roughly 25 stock shafts for their woods. They offer numerous stock options in irons. Taylormade has 15 or more stock options for woods. 
 

Ping, Titleist and I think Srixon don’t have as many stock options but as for Ping and Titleist they do lots of testing before putting a shaft in their offerings either as upcharge or stock. Ping spends about 6 months testing shafts with their heads before a decision is made

[Rickp]

I’m 73 and now into the Senior section. The Recoil Sent shafts are my favorite. The Ping stock Alta are very good but I’m giving a slight edge in my case to the Recoils.


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

[bens197]

I’m 73 and now into the Senior section. The Recoil Sent shafts are my favorite. The Ping stock Alta are very good but I’m giving a slight edge in my case to the Recoils.


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

My father is “Medicare eligible” and I really want to get him into a new set of irons. He loves his for sentimental reasons but they’re 30 year old technology.

Recoils keep coming up in discussion among a large scope of players and I hope that they work for him...if he’ll let me build him a set.

[RickyBobby_PR]

29 minutes ago, bens197 said:

 

My father is “Medicare eligible” and I really want to get him into a new set of irons. He loves his for sentimental reasons but they’re 30 year old technology.

Recoils keep coming up in discussion among a large scope of players and I hope that they work for him...if he’ll let me build him a set.

 

They are the number 1 graphite iron shaft. They also tend to be the preference for slower swing speeds compared to something like steel fiber although I’m in the higher end of ss I hate the feel of the steelfiber.

The catalyst from project x from some limited reviews I’ve seen have had positive feedback. The TGI from kbs have had good reviews as well. I’m a recoil homer and have a tendency to lean ust when it comes to first options in my clubs.

[TENBUCK]

9 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Club oems have multiple non custom shaft options so which recommendation do you go with?  Callaway has roughly 25 stock shafts for their woods. They offer numerous stock options in irons. Taylormade has 15 or more stock options for woods. 
 

Ping, Titleist and I think Srixon don’t have as many stock options but as for Ping and Titleist they do lots of testing before putting a shaft in their offerings either as upcharge or stock. Ping spends about 6 months testing shafts with their heads before a decision is made

Some guys like custom shafts instead of the OEM shafts and that's good. When I got the Ping G400 MAX, I tried a few custom shafts but really none were better for me at least than the standard Alta shaft. With the custom shafts "I" felt I had to work harder to produce almost the same results that I got with the Alta. That doesn't mean I don't like to interchange shafts. Although I have the Alta in my driver, I sometimes interchange it with the Ping Tour 65 shaft. I get better distance out of that shaft but my dispersion is worse. So if you buy a driver with a custom shaft and it works for you great, since my last 2 drivers have been Ping, I find that their standard shafts fit me well and I usually stick with it.

[RickyBobby_PR]

8 hours ago, TENBUCK said:

Some guys like custom shafts instead of the OEM shafts and that's good. When I got the Ping G400 MAX, I tried a few custom shafts but really none were better for me at least than the standard Alta shaft. With the custom shafts "I" felt I had to work harder to produce almost the same results that I got with the Alta. That doesn't mean I don't like to interchange shafts. Although I have the Alta in my driver, I sometimes interchange it with the Ping Tour 65 shaft. I get better distance out of that shaft but my dispersion is worse. So if you buy a driver with a custom shaft and it works for you great, since my last 2 drivers have been Ping, I find that their standard shafts fit me well and I usually stick with it.

It’s not a matter of like per se but rather which one works. OEM shafts which is a somewhat misleading term because there are made for shafts which is what I would consider an OEM shaft and then there are stock shafts from shaft companies that are in multiple club brands that don’t have an upcharge like the px hzrdus and evenflow lines which are also premium shafts if bought by themselves from authorized dealers.

While not always the case stock shafts especially the made for are designed to play soft and help get ball in the air which is what most amateurs need. The faster and stronger golfers sometimes can’t find a stock shaft even in x flex that fits their swing and go the aftermarket route because of the designs used with stronger materials and designs that hold up their swings.

Again since the in the post I quoted originally you stated you will go with the OEM recommendation how do you or how should anyone go about choosing their recommendation when there’s a dozen or more options from the OEM?  You picked two Ping shafts that are completely different designs and one of them doest work for you while the other does. 

 

[HAC]

I am in my mid-60s and play with a bunch of senior golfers at my club, some of whom are the same age or older than the OP.  More and more, I see these people buying XXIO clubs, which are very light-weight and really designed for senior golfers and women.  A number of the people who have bought them tell me that they get a lot more distance out of them, although I do know of one guy about 70 with a very aggressive swing who seems to scatter them all over the place - it does go far when he hits it straight.

XXIO is owned by Srixon and is big in Asia, but newer to the US.  I bought my wife XXIO's woman's clubs about a year ago and the lighter weight really made a difference.  She is pretty much a beginner golfer.

Another lighter club, at least for a driver, that seems to be made for senior men (I have not tried this yet) is the Titleist TS-1.  You might try this one out as well.

Edited April 6, 2020 by HAC

[TENBUCK]

3 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Again since the in the post I quoted originally you stated you will go with the OEM recommendation how do you or how should anyone go about choosing their recommendation when there’s a dozen or more options from the OEM?

Unless you get fit every single time you buy a driver and have the ability to test every single offering that the OEM(or fitter has) has you probably won't get the "optimal"(?) shaft for that particular head. In my situation, the nearest fitter is about 2 hours away, so I usually go with the recommended shaft that Ping has after talking to one of their engineers. They have been very accommodating to requests like that. My SS is between 80-85, I like a high ball flight, I use several different balls but all are urethans covered and my best game in from 100 yard in. Ping has given me options and so far they've been very good. Now am I at my "optimal", I kind of doubt that, but realistically and monetarily, I think the standard Ping shafts work out well. Now that doesn't mean that Titleist, Taylormade, Callaway, etc., are the same, but Ping drivers and my choices of their standard shafts have been good for me.

[RickyBobby_PR]

53 minutes ago, TENBUCK said:

Unless you get fit every single time you buy a driver and have the ability to test every single offering that the OEM(or fitter has) has you probably won't get the "optimal"(?) shaft for that particular head. In my situation, the nearest fitter is about 2 hours away, so I usually go with the recommended shaft that Ping has after talking to one of their engineers. They have been very accommodating to requests like that. My SS is between 80-85, I like a high ball flight, I use several different balls but all are urethans covered and my best game in from 100 yard in. Ping has given me options and so far they've been very good. Now am I at my "optimal", I kind of doubt that, but realistically and monetarily, I think the standard Ping shafts work out well. Now that doesn't mean that Titleist, Taylormade, Callaway, etc., are the same, but Ping drivers and my choices of their standard shafts have been good for me.

The bold part is what any who is trying to optimize their setup should do and why in other posts in other threads when it’s been mentioned about giving up 5 yards to be in the fairway I have said one doesn’t have to do sacrifice one for the other. A decent fitting will have someone at or very close to optimal. 
 

Also a decent fitting wouldn’t have a person hit every shaft or even every head available from an OEM. Oems offer shafts from different companies that have different launch profiles so someone that needs higher launch it wouldn’t make sense for them to hit shafts designed for lower launch. A good fitter will see the persons ball flight use that, launch monitor numbers and the golfers feedback to narrow down selections and find the best fit. The good fitters I’ve been to and have watched fit others have people dialed into a shaft and head combo in under 30 minutes. From there either the fitting is over or they spend sometime fine tuning hosel settings to further dial in ball flight

[RetiredBoomer]

Twenty years ago, senior models, not merely shafts, were available--especially from Cobra.

That seems to have disappeared.  Maybe separate models weren't actually helpful.  I honestly don't know.

[TENBUCK]

31 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

The bold part is what any who is trying to optimize their setup should do and why in other posts in other threads when it’s been mentioned about giving up 5 yards to be in the fairway I have said one doesn’t have to do sacrifice one for the other. A decent fitting will have someone at or very close to optimal. 
 

Also a decent fitting wouldn’t have a person hit every shaft or even every head available from an OEM. Oems offer shafts from different companies that have different launch profiles so someone that needs higher launch it wouldn’t make sense for them to hit shafts designed for lower launch. A good fitter will see the persons ball flight use that, launch monitor numbers and the golfers feedback to narrow down selections and find the best fit. The good fitters I’ve been to and have watched fit others have people dialed into a shaft and head combo in under 30 minutes. From there either the fitting is over or they spend sometime fine tuning hosel settings to further dial in ball flight

You obviously are a BIG proponent of shaft fitting, and if it works for you great. Your probably in an area where you are blessed with fitters that are good and have done multiple fittings that you either observed or known people who were successful with getting fir with a custom shaft. You made failed to read that I'm about 2 hours away from a fitter meaning a big box store,  or even CC. By the way I've done a fitting with CC a few years ago, and lets just say, I wasn't too impressed with their recommendation, fitting process, and final outcome. I'll give you a an example. When your there at CC and you hit somewhere between 200+ balls in the span of 2-3 hours, you really aren't putting your best swing on ball number 150 as you would on ball#3. I was fit into a Padderson shaft, which of course they recommended to be spined. If you look at Padderson's recommendations, you would see that they don't recommend spinning because there is no spine on their shaft because of the way it's constructed. So who do you believe? I listened to CC, and I was out $35 for the service. Did it make a difference, IDK! So anyway, re-shafting my driver with a custom shaft, grip, spining and separate freight charge because it had to be sent to Chicago to be spined, I was out almost $300. Lesson learned! If you are in a competitive setting when you play, by all mean get the last bit help you can IF you have access to a good fitter like you have. Again, I don't have that luxury, been through the fitting routine already and seen "MY" results, we have our money games that I play in, I'm happy with my way of getting fit for a shaft considering my rrestrictions, and life is good (so far).

[RickyBobby_PR]

24 minutes ago, TENBUCK said:

You obviously are a BIG proponent of shaft fitting, and if it works for you great. Your probably in an area where you are blessed with fitters that are good and have done multiple fittings that you either observed or known people who were successful with getting fir with a custom shaft. You made failed to read that I'm about 2 hours away from a fitter meaning a big box store,  or even CC. By the way I've done a fitting with CC a few years ago, and lets just say, I wasn't too impressed with their recommendation, fitting process, and final outcome. I'll give you a an example. When your there at CC and you hit somewhere between 200+ balls in the span of 2-3 hours, you really aren't putting your best swing on ball number 150 as you would on ball#3. I was fit into a Padderson shaft, which of course they recommended to be spined. If you look at Padderson's recommendations, you would see that they don't recommend spinning because there is no spine on their shaft because of the way it's constructed. So who do you believe? I listened to CC, and I was out $35 for the service. Did it make a difference, IDK! So anyway, re-shafting my driver with a custom shaft, grip, spining and separate freight charge because it had to be sent to Chicago to be spined, I was out almost $300. Lesson learned! If you are in a competitive setting when you play, by all mean get the last bit help you can IF you have access to a good fitter like you have. Again, I don't have that luxury, been through the fitting routine already and seen "MY" results, we have our money games that I play in, I'm happy with my way of getting fit for a shaft considering my rrestrictions, and life is good (so far).

I didn’t miss your comment about being 2 hours away. I made a general statement about golfers who want to optimize.
 

I’m not a proponent of shaft fittings but one of a full club fitting. Shafts are just a piece of that puzzle. I’ve never been to a CC and don’t have plans to because I prefer an outdoor fitting unless I had prior knowledge of the fitter and their process like Ian from TXG then I would consider an indoor fitting. Like anywhere just because the price is high for the service doesn’t guarantee a good service or experience. The fitting is as much the fitter and their understanding of not only how to read a launch monitor but seeing how a person swings the club and how that is causing the numbers on the monitor.  CC’s business model is one to try and upsell shafts plus them doing the build and their build process. Unfortunately it seems like more people come away disappointed in CC fittings and/or the process for one reason or another and it’s usually over cost or something like in your case the golfer wasn’t as educated on a product or process before hand and ended up leading in the expensive way.

 

[TENBUCK]

Well it sounds like you have the prefect all around set-up for your full club fitting. Congrats. I'll still continue to do mine as I have for most of the reasons I gave you plus the fact that I like what I do and for the most part, the results. As for your comment about being uneducated on a product or process, I went to a fitter to get fit by someone who knows more than I do about stuff. It would be counter productive for me to go to a fitter and when he gave me his recommendations for me to say "tell you what, I'll look up what you want to do to the shaft ands the process involved and I'll let you know". I don't think so. I also don't think I'm the only one that has had a bad recommendation or club fitting, but, I would hesitate to call those people uneducated on the product or process. 

 

 

[RickyBobby_PR]

49 minutes ago, TENBUCK said:

Well it sounds like you have the prefect all around set-up for your full club fitting. Congrats. I'll still continue to do mine as I have for most of the reasons I gave you plus the fact that I like what I do and for the most part, the results. As for your comment about being uneducated on a product or process, I went to a fitter to get fit by someone who knows more than I do about stuff. It would be counter productive for me to go to a fitter and when he gave me his recommendations for me to say "tell you what, I'll look up what you want to do to the shaft ands the process involved and I'll let you know". I don't think so. I also don't think I'm the only one that has had a bad recommendation or club fitting, but, I would hesitate to call those people uneducated on the product or process. 

 

 

I wasn’t attacking you or your choice of using CC. I was commenting that your experience is like many others I’ve seen when it comes to CC fittings. People go into a place like CC with all kinds of golf and golf equipment knowledge from those who don’t know much to some smart ones that understand equipment and launch numbers and so on, and there are those that go there knowing that they are going to get fit into high end gear, be offered the build and the various services that come with the build and other go in not knowing anything about CCs business model. Based on the persons knowledge of CC business model and/or fitting there have been mixed reviews and the ones that have had less than stellar experiences were due to what they knew about CC business model compared to expectations and others have had bad experiences with the fitter and the fitting process and/or the final product. Regardless of the experience the person came out with a better understanding of it all and unfortunately it can be an expensive learning in experience. 

And yes your aren’t the only one who has had a bad fitting/experience to include those with some golf games and knowledge.

[Fujikura Golf]

We'll chime in here - We make the widest range of shafts in the industry including those for seniors.We have iron shafts ranging from 45 gram R3 flex to 115 Tour X.

Our Vista Pro line has a range of weights and flexes that will surely impress and our fitters love the flexibility. Please have a look here: https://fujikuragolf.com/woods/vista-pro

Let us know if you have any questions! We're here to help and support.

[Kenny B]

19 minutes ago, Fujikura Golf said:

We'll chime in here - We make the widest range of shafts in the industry including those for seniors.We have iron shafts ranging from 45 gram R3 flex to 115 Tour X.

Our Vista Pro line has a range of weights and flexes that will surely impress and our fitters love the flexibility. Please have a look here: https://fujikuragolf.com/woods/vista-pro

Let us know if you have any questions! We're here to help and support.

Thanks for chiming in.  As I stated earlier in this thread, I have a slower swing speed <90mph. I should probably play senior flex shafts, but I like the feel of heavier shafts so I play whatever manufacturer says is their regular flex.  I tried lightweight driver shafts <50g but I lose control.  I hit nearly all fairways with my Aldila NV 65-R, but lighter shafts... not so much.  

Question 1:  Is it impossible to make a 65g high launch "senior" flex driver shaft?  Or is it that OEMs don't see a need to build this shaft for seniors?

Question 2:  Maybe I missed it on your website, but is there something like an 85-90g high launch "senior" graphite shaft for .355 hosel? I would like to go to a senior flex graphite but I can't play lightweight graphite shafts.  So I am currently playing Nippon N.S. Pro Zelos 8 steel shafts in regular flex.  I've been told by a fitter these play more like a Ladies flex.

[golfmule]

On 4/6/2020 at 6:18 PM, Fujikura Golf said:

We'll chime in here - We make the widest range of shafts in the industry including those for seniors.We have iron shafts ranging from 45 gram R3 flex to 115 Tour X.

Our Vista Pro line has a range of weights and flexes that will surely impress and our fitters love the flexibility. Please have a look here: https://fujikuragolf.com/woods/vista-pro

Let us know if you have any questions! We're here to help and support.

I'm almost 71 years old and have tried Vista Pro shafts several times since I was 45-50 years old. The last one came with a High Heat driver that I bought. I just can't hit them. I've never gotten good results. On the other hand, your Pro line has been great for me. I first ran into them when one came in a Taylor Made M2 (2016) driver. It was regular flex and worked great. I have since switched that out for the same shaft in M flex and absolutely love it. My 3 wood (also TM M2) has a Pro 55 shaft in A flex. I love that one too. I have a High Heat 3 wood that has a Pro 53 shaft that I love and I have recently changed the shaft in my High Heat driver to a Pro 53 R2 that I have high hopes for (haven't been able to try it yet). I love your Pro line but hope never to see another Vista Pro in any clubs that I buy. My swing is smooth so I assume the Vista Pro maybe needs a more aggressive swing? 

[Fujikura Golf]

On 4/6/2020 at 5:27 PM, Kenny B said:

Thanks for chiming in.  As I stated earlier in this thread, I have a slower swing speed <90mph. I should probably play senior flex shafts, but I like the feel of heavier shafts so I play whatever manufacturer says is their regular flex.  I tried lightweight driver shafts <50g but I lose control.  I hit nearly all fairways with my Aldila NV 65-R, but lighter shafts... not so much.  

Question 1:  Is it impossible to make a 65g high launch "senior" flex driver shaft?  Or is it that OEMs don't see a need to build this shaft for seniors?

Question 2:  Maybe I missed it on your website, but is there something like an 85-90g high launch "senior" graphite shaft for .355 hosel? I would like to go to a senior flex graphite but I can't play lightweight graphite shafts.  So I am currently playing Nippon N.S. Pro Zelos 8 steel shafts in regular flex.  I've been told by a fitter these play more like a Ladies flex.

Hi Kenny - hope these answers help!

Q1: Without knowing your swing or numbers I will say this - Your speed is in the R2 (Senior) to R flex range but I would lean towards the R flex (if you're closer to 90mph). However, if you are wanting a 60g Senior flex we do have an option for you in the PRO 2.0 line - PRO 2.0 6-R2.

 Q2: Our iron shafts are a .370 parallel but most of our dealers can taper without an issue. That being said, our PRO and Vista PRO iron shafts are offered in one-length blanks making it possible to hard/soft step and dial in the flex you need. I would suggest that you try the PRO Iron 85i in an R-Flex.

Thanks for your question!

- AT, Fujikura Golf