What has bigger influence on ball flight - movable weight, hosel setting or shaft?

[Calvo90]

I was playing around with my Ping G410 PLUS driver and M5 fairway wood, specifically moving weight, different weight (4-20g) and hosel settings. I noticed moving weight had substantially less pronounced effect on ball flight than changing loft (and subsequently face angle). Often moving weight had counterproductive effect on shot shape. The same goes for my fairway wood. I didn't have a chance to factor in different shafts so I was wondering what MGS forum members' experience has been so far when adjusting their drivers and fairways? Am i possibly an exception to the rule?

Every response will be welcomed. Cheers!

[null]

I think you're on the right track. 

Loft and face angle changes would definitely change things for almost anybody. 

Moveable weights would have a more subtle impact 

Shaft changes would be completely player dependent. All a shaft does is change a feel for a player. Every player reacts uniquely to the different shaft feels so it hard to predict what a shaft change will do for a given player. It's why fitting is so important 

[ZenGolfer]

Id say probably hosel setting.  Ive played around with the different settings on the hosel of my Tommy Armour Atomic driver and I can tell a big difference when I changed it from 10.5 to 12 degrees and when I set it to draw, I started hitting dead pulls with it.

[golfinnut]

Definitely hosel setting.  Changing the face angle would have a much greater impact on dispersion & ball flight.  Weights are there to tweak the ball flight.  But @jlukesis correct .... the shaft is all about feel and player dependent.  Everyone's attack angle, swing speed, kick point, etc. is going to be different.  That's why there are so many shaft options out there & why the fitting process is so important. 

[Camille Bissarro]

I'm an inveterate tinkerer and 'feel' guy (although I test my mods on a launch monitor), and I would have to agree that shifting head weights has less effect on ball flight than about any other adjustment to loft/lie or shaft. The effects are further limited by the fact that the tracks/options for adjustment on adjustable driver heads are fixed by the various tracks designed into the heads themselves. The three-way settings limit on the Ping 410 head demonstrates this, while the variety of track axes on the last few generations of TaylorMade heads indicates different attempts to optimize possibilities within a restricted system. Lead tape at either end of the club is my preferred solution, but again, it's for feel as much as anything.

One thing I'm wrestling with now (in case anyone has some thoughts on the matter) is why my driver seems to launch higher at 8.5* (std -1) than 10.5* (std +1), all other variables constant. I'm observing this on the course, as the C-19 shelter restrictions preclude my using a launch monitor these days.

[null]

3 minutes ago, Camille Bissarro said:

 

One thing I'm wrestling with now (in case anyone has some thoughts on the matter) is why my driver seems to launch higher at 8.5* (std -1) than 10.5* (std +1), all other variables constant. I'm observing this on the course, as the C-19 shelter restrictions preclude my using a launch monitor these days.

Could be a number of things:

- lofting down opens the face and lofting up closes the face.  If you are not squaring the face up correctly. you might be delivering more loft in the -1 setting than in the +1 setting.  

- strike location - the lower loft may subtly move your strike position.  If you are striking it higher on the face, you are going to have a higher launch

[Camille Bissarro]

I suspect it's an issue of squaring the face as it definitely sits more open at address, and my miss is right with it lofted down. In terms of contact point, I can feel that (and see the ball mark on the face) so I'm generally aware of that variation after a shot.

I started messing around with the loft because I've been noticing a precipitous descent after a decent launch at higher lofts, which (again in the absence of a monitor these days), I've attributed to a relatively high spin rate.

Thanks for your thoughts!

[zrumble]

5 hours ago, Calvo90 said:

I was playing around with my Ping G410 PLUS driver and M5 fairway wood, specifically moving weight, different weight (4-20g) and hosel settings. I noticed moving weight had substantially less pronounced effect on ball flight than changing loft (and subsequently face angle). Often moving weight had counterproductive effect on shot shape. The same goes for my fairway wood. I didn't have a chance to factor in different shafts so I was wondering what MGS forum members' experience has been so far when adjusting their drivers and fairways? Am i possibly an exception to the rule?

Every response will be welcomed. Cheers!

The possible CG location of a clubhead is very very small, even with moving adjustable weights. Read the official driver reviews down my MGS, they do a fantastic job describing it. So I would say this would have the smallest effect. 
Loft/lie and shaft are a bit harder to nail down because they not only change the impact parameters, they change what the player sees/feels and how they react to the swing. Both can have large impacts on shot quality. All else being equal though, IMO face angle probably has the biggest effect in direction and spin rates. 

2 hours ago, Camille Bissarro said:

I'm an inveterate tinkerer and 'feel' guy (although I test my mods on a launch monitor), and I would have to agree that shifting head weights has less effect on ball flight than about any other adjustment to loft/lie or shaft. The effects are further limited by the fact that the tracks/options for adjustment on adjustable driver heads are fixed by the various tracks designed into the heads themselves. The three-way settings limit on the Ping 410 head demonstrates this, while the variety of track axes on the last few generations of TaylorMade heads indicates different attempts to optimize possibilities within a restricted system. Lead tape at either end of the club is my preferred solution, but again, it's for feel as much as anything.

One thing I'm wrestling with now (in case anyone has some thoughts on the matter) is why my driver seems to launch higher at 8.5* (std -1) than 10.5* (std +1), all other variables constant. I'm observing this on the course, as the C-19 shelter restrictions preclude my using a launch monitor these days.

@jlukes is spot on again with his thoughts. One thought I have is what the 8.5* does to how you deliver the club. You could very well be trying to help it, or flip it, into the air because you aren’t comfortable hitting the ball the effective loft presented with your typical stroke pattern.

[Calvo90]

Thanks everyone for their response.

I noticed the same as Camille Bissarro when lofting down my driver. Strikes were slightly higher on the face and face was more open (judging from seeing bigger fades). I probably changed my delivery too when i saw less loft. All this factors led to a higher delivered loft and actally higher ball flight. 

In light of new information I think driver head is due for a change. I only wish I would have a competent and well equipped fitter closer than 800km... insert loud sigh...

Do you guys think MGS True golf fit would be of any help?

[zrumble]

4 minutes ago, Calvo90 said:

Thanks everyone for their response.

I noticed the same as Camille Bissarro when lofting down my driver. Strikes were slightly higher on the face and face was more open (judging from seeing bigger fades). I probably changed my delivery too when i saw less loft. All this factors led to a higher delivered loft and actally higher ball flight. 

In light of new information I think driver head is due for a change. I only wish I would have a competent and well equipped fitter closer than 800km... insert loud sigh...

Do you guys think MGS True golf fit would be of any help?

I’ve looked through it, and the MGS tool is more thorough than most online fitting tools. The one difficult question to answer is tempo because it’s so subjective. It’s also $9 which is reasonable. 
 

That being said I’d use it as a good starting point, but nothing is going to compare to going out and playing the driver. 

[Calvo90]

3 minutes ago, zrumble said:

I’ve looked through it, and the MGS tool is more thorough than most online fitting tools. The one difficult question to answer is tempo because it’s so subjective. It’s also $9 which is reasonable. 
 

That being said I’d use it as a good starting point, but nothing is going to compare to going out and playing the driver. 

Thanks.

I wish playing the driver would be possible. Actually it is but I would feel like a scum. I heard some people order drivers via internet, try them and the ones that do not make the cut are returned back to the seller because EU consumer laws or the sellers themself enable consumers to return bought goods using internet without any reason within 30 days of the purchase. I dont think my moral compass would allow me to do that. Just unwrapping the thing causes a minimum price drop of 15%. Taylormade drivers depreciate easily by 30%. 

[zrumble]

Have you looking into something like U-Try?

https://www.globalgolf.com/u-try/
 

I personally haven’t used it, but maybe another MGS user will chime in. Looks like you can test a driver for $25, and if you want to keep it the money goes towards the purchase price. 
 

Seems like if you use the MGS driver fitting tool for $9 to get some baseline specs you could do a trial run of 3-4 drivers for the cost of a typical fitting. 

[Calvo90]

34 minutes ago, zrumble said:

Have you looking into something like U-Try?

https://www.globalgolf.com/u-try/
 

I personally haven’t used it, but maybe another MGS user will chime in. Looks like you can test a driver for $25, and if you want to keep it the money goes towards the purchase price. 
 

Seems like if you use the MGS driver fitting tool for $9 to get some baseline specs you could do a trial run of 3-4 drivers for the cost of a typical fitting. 

That is an awesome idea and reference. I am very grateful.

If i will not be able to find similar offer in Europe, I will try to go through GlobalGolf. Shipping fees and import tax to Europe will be hard to swallow but not as tough as a price for unsuitable club.

[John W Sutch]

Golf Digest had an article about driver loft distance and swing speed several issues back. Claim was at most swing speeds a lower lofted diver got more carry and roll out than with a standard setting. Fooled around with my driver and it seemed to work. Have a 9 degree Cobra Speedzone which I initially set at 10 degrees. Then changed to 8 degree draw setting and got about ten to fifteen more yards. To make this work you need to swing up a couple degrees off the tee. Am a high ball hitter so works for me.

[RobotDoctor]

When I want to affect the flight of the ball I first look to shaft characteristics.  Reason being is that when adjusting hosel settings the face is affected (being closed or open).  I prefer a neutral setting as that is the ideal design of the club.  The problem with shafts is that there are so many options.  For me I tend to hit a ball fairly high so I am not going to use a driver with greater than 10 degrees loft.  I also don't generate the clubhead speed I once did so a low lofted wood isn't going to work either (anything under a 9 degree).  I do have a tendency to spin a ball so I am looking for a mid/high to high kick point, low spinning shaft.  There is a specific shaft that seems to work for me regardless of whether the driver is non-adjustable or not.  I have used one particular shaft now for 4 different drivers (2 non-adjustable and 2 adjustable) and that shaft produces the ball flight characteristics I want.  So I have found my goto shaft.  Now I can play with sole weighting to affect the overall COG of the driver.  If I tend to hit it too high I move the weights towards the face.  If I want additional loft I move the weights towards the back.  I have my TM M3 dialed in pretty well.

[RobotDoctor]

14 hours ago, John W Sutch said:

Golf Digest had an article about driver loft distance and swing speed several issues back. Claim was at most swing speeds a lower lofted diver got more carry and roll out than with a standard setting. Fooled around with my driver and it seemed to work. Have a 9 degree Cobra Speedzone which I initially set at 10 degrees. Then changed to 8 degree draw setting and got about ten to fifteen more yards. To make this work you need to swing up a couple degrees off the tee. Am a high ball hitter so works for me.

That's interesting.  I may have to experiment with that just for fun!

[Briton]

On 4/3/2020 at 6:13 AM, Calvo90 said:

I was playing around with my Ping G410 PLUS driver and M5 fairway wood, specifically moving weight, different weight (4-20g) and hosel settings. I noticed moving weight had substantially less pronounced effect on ball flight than changing loft (and subsequently face angle). Often moving weight had counterproductive effect on shot shape. The same goes for my fairway wood. I didn't have a chance to factor in different shafts so I was wondering what MGS forum members' experience has been so far when adjusting their drivers and fairways? Am i possibly an exception to the rule?

Every response will be welcomed. Cheers!

For myself, in order of what effects and I’m adding another option:

1. My swing, where i set my shoulders and if i keep  my shoulders back and down coming through the downswing sends it high, also steepness coming down on the ball effects it also. I have 2 long drive drivers that are 4.5 and 4 degree loft that i can hit just as high as my 9.5 degree driver if i try to.

2. Shaft, kick points and stiffness play a lot into how my ball flight is, whether it goes left or right or high or low.

3. Loft/hosel settings

4. Moving weights, I personally haven’t never noticed much with weight movement.

 

so all in all I think swing changes make the biggest impact then shaft make another big impact.

[braveheart]

In my experience as a 12 handicap, self admitted inconsistent driver.

1) Shaft has more of an influence on my consistency in launch, carry and spin thus affecting my distance and dispersion either good or bad.  Lighter and longer with soft tip , I get high spin and more dispersion. Heavier and shorter in length less dispersion but lower launch no matter how much I change the loft. 

2) Hosel and loft settings. I see subtle changes due to this variable.

3) Moving weights. I have not seen any noticeable change in direction. I feel this variable is way overrated to make a draw or slice. 

I will say that the sub variable of length of shaft has a substantial influence on consistency in direction and distance for me. I think attack angle plays a considerable role in the way any of these variables can affect your shot.

 

Edited April 4, 2020 by braveheart

[Camille Bissarro]

On 4/3/2020 at 10:34 AM, zrumble said:

The possible CG location of a clubhead is very very small, even with moving adjustable weights. Read the official driver reviews down my MGS, they do a fantastic job describing it. So I would say this would have the smallest effect. 
Loft/lie and shaft are a bit harder to nail down because they not only change the impact parameters, they change what the player sees/feels and how they react to the swing. Both can have large impacts on shot quality. All else being equal though, IMO face angle probably has the biggest effect in direction and spin rates. 

@jlukes is spot on again with his thoughts. One thought I have is what the 8.5* does to how you deliver the club. You could very well be trying to help it, or flip it, into the air because you aren’t comfortable hitting the ball the effective loft presented with your typical stroke pattern.

Thanks again @zrumble and @jlukes. I went back to hovering my driver rather than grounding it (don't remember when I stopped, one of those things). The launch angle settled down and the leak right disappeared. Hit 9/12 fairways yesterday with the driver.

[GolfSpy BOS]

I've always viewed the hosel setting as the major adjustment for fitting.  Use that to get yourself in the correct/preferred general launch window, and then you can use moveable weights an/or shaft selection to make some fine tuning adjustments to that window. 

[GolfSpy BOS]

38 minutes ago, Camille Bissarro said:

Thanks again @zrumble and @jlukes. I went back to hovering my driver rather than grounding it (don't remember when I stopped, one of those things). The launch angle settled down and the leak right disappeared. Hit 9/12 fairways yesterday with the driver.

That makes perfect sense too.  There was an article a while back from Tom Wishon talking about adjustable drivers.  All of those + and - loft adjustments really tweak face angle more than anything.  But if you hover it and/or square the face with your hands at address then you're actually getting that loft adjustment.

It's from a while back, but I still find it informative:

 

[zrumble]

1 hour ago, Camille Bissarro said:

Thanks again @zrumble and @jlukes. I went back to hovering my driver rather than grounding it (don't remember when I stopped, one of those things). The launch angle settled down and the leak right disappeared. Hit 9/12 fairways yesterday with the driver.

9/12 fairways is epic. Nice work.

[KatoGolfer]

For me, movable weight affects the feel/sound more than anything.  Shaft characteristics make the biggest difference in ball flight.  Tip stiff shafts keep the spin off the driver head down, which gives me the best launch/carry numbers.  Lofting up or down doesn't make as much of a difference as shaft does.

As others have said, not everyone is the same.  If you don't swing hard enough, a low launch low spin shaft will do the opposite.  It will launch low, not fly as far and not get the proper roll.  For example, I watched a couple of my normal playing partners buy a driver with a Hzrdus Smoke shaft last year and they just couldn't get the thing off the ground even with the proper shaft flex for their swing speed.  The shaft profile just wasn't correct for them.

[AGutierrez7]

In my limited experience of adjustable weighting (I currently play a Wilson Staff Cortex driver that has the adjustable weight front to back), I have noticed that the movable weight also does not influence ball flight as much as you would think. I would venture to say that adjusting hosel settings would have the biggest effect. After that, I would say the shaft is the next biggest factor to altering ball flight. I will link a video Tour Experience Golf (TXG) did a while back looking at the role of the golf shaft. They do a really good job at explaining how the golf shaft can be used to alter ball flight, etc. 

 

[Calvo90]

10 hours ago, AGutierrez7 said:

In my limited experience of adjustable weighting (I currently play a Wilson Staff Cortex driver that has the adjustable weight front to back), I have noticed that the movable weight also does not influence ball flight as much as you would think. I would venture to say that adjusting hosel settings would have the biggest effect. After that, I would say the shaft is the next biggest factor to altering ball flight. I will link a video Tour Experience Golf (TXG) did a while back looking at the role of the golf shaft. They do a really good job at explaining how the golf shaft can be used to alter ball flight, etc. 

 

Thanks for the link. I am a regular follower of the TXG and have seen pretty much all their videos, some numerous times. Ever since I discovered TXG, all other youtube celebrity's golf gear and technology related reviews, opinions and videos have been somewhat devalued in my eyes. Mark Crossfield is great to spark a critical view about the cometics and advertisement claims of the golf industry and Rick Shiels' reviews are entertaining, but TXG is where it is at. 

Video bellow is made about the adjustable drivers, specifically if their adjustments work. Its a great one. My only wish would be that the video would be more structured and the variables would be more separated. It would be great if they would concentrate for a couple of hits with different settings only on adjustable hosel in the most extreme positions (while the weights would be in ''neutral setting'') and then reverse the process with the hosel in neutral position but with moving the weights in the most extreme positions. For the fun, finally, it would be great to make, using all the settings, the driver the most hook and slice biased. In my opinion that is the most scientific way to approach the question whether the adjustable golf clubs work and which is the most important. If someone discovered a video or an article that is structured in that way, it would be much appreciated if they would share it with all of us.

 

[BIG STU]

Actually all 3 affect it in different ways for different players. The main 2 things IMHO are shaft kick points and weight placement. But it will vary because everyone's swing and AOA is different and also everyone's maximum SS is at different places through the hitting zone. I guarantee some of the younger high speed players ( regardless of handicap) would high hook the snot out of my driver where I hit a mid height baby cut. But it is set for me with the weight in the stock position in the middle rear and about 3 grams of lead tape on the shaft side of the sole. I also have the stock shaft really soft tipped. When I got to messing with that driver I ordered another shaft from Honma stock regular flex un trimmed. I also did a lot of tuning on the set up because those drivers do not adjust like anything else on the market. They use a concentric bushing in the adjustments which I fully understand from messing with truck suspensions. They also have a special wrench for adjustments because you make 3. 

[revkev]

Great topic, sorry I missed out on the main buzz and chatter, things have been absolutely crazy for me at work.  I wonder why.

 

At any rate I was surprised to see a few guys make statements that made it seem as if shaft didn't matter.  I'm sure that they didn't mean quite that. The shaft does matter as does the face angle (loft especially).  Moveable weights are to a far lesser extent.  In the end though loft and shaft combined are swing dependent.  I read the Golf Digest article mentioned earlier.  I'm here to say that it is most certainly not true for my swing any more than there are guys here who fit into a size 42 jacket and I'd look like a bum in it.  For me more loft, equals more carry and a heavier shaft than stock reduces the spin so that I get a great decent angle and optimal roll out.  But I also play in Florida where even dry conditions are fairly wet, you need the carry for distance - it could be that if I were still playing in the Midwest I'd want a little less loft and flatter trajectory to get more distance. 

However you go about it - lay down $100 and get with a pro or self experimentation until you get it right, you need to be fit to maximize results plain and simple.

 

Good luck!

[Rickp]

Also have the Ping G410 plus. The Loft was the most noticeable difference. Driver is set on Neutral and 12’. Previous Driver was 10.5’ and approximately same ball flight.


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

[silver & black]

On 4/6/2020 at 10:04 AM, B.Boston said:

That makes perfect sense too.  There was an article a while back from Tom Wishon talking about adjustable drivers.  All of those + and - loft adjustments really tweak face angle more than anything.  But if you hover it and/or square the face with your hands at address then you're actually getting that loft adjustment.

It's from a while back, but I still find it informative:

 

Great video. Clear and concise, easy to understand.

[KatoGolfer]

On 4/6/2020 at 9:04 AM, B.Boston said:

That makes perfect sense too.  There was an article a while back from Tom Wishon talking about adjustable drivers.  All of those + and - loft adjustments really tweak face angle more than anything.  But if you hover it and/or square the face with your hands at address then you're actually getting that loft adjustment.

It's from a while back, but I still find it informative:

 

Very good video.  This is the reason why I try to buy an adjustable driver with as close to the correct loft in the standard position as possible.