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What has bigger influence on ball flight - movable weight, hosel setting or shaft?

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38 minutes ago, Camille Bissarro said:

Thanks again @zrumble and @jlukes. I went back to hovering my driver rather than grounding it (don't remember when I stopped, one of those things). The launch angle settled down and the leak right disappeared. Hit 9/12 fairways yesterday with the driver.

That makes perfect sense too.  There was an article a while back from Tom Wishon talking about adjustable drivers.  All of those + and - loft adjustments really tweak face angle more than anything.  But if you hover it and/or square the face with your hands at address then you're actually getting that loft adjustment.

It's from a while back, but I still find it informative:

 

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1 hour ago, Camille Bissarro said:

Thanks again @zrumble and @jlukes. I went back to hovering my driver rather than grounding it (don't remember when I stopped, one of those things). The launch angle settled down and the leak right disappeared. Hit 9/12 fairways yesterday with the driver.

9/12 fairways is epic. Nice work.

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Stats: 5'4", Male, R-Handed, Moderate Tempo, Driver SS 106mph
 

Driver: Ping i25, S-flex PWR 65 shaft
3w/5w: Callaway X-Hot, S-flex Fubuki shafts
3i: FOURTEEN FH-1000, DG X100
4i-PW: Mizuno MP-4, DG S300
Wedges: Titleist SM7
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For me, movable weight affects the feel/sound more than anything.  Shaft characteristics make the biggest difference in ball flight.  Tip stiff shafts keep the spin off the driver head down, which gives me the best launch/carry numbers.  Lofting up or down doesn't make as much of a difference as shaft does.

As others have said, not everyone is the same.  If you don't swing hard enough, a low launch low spin shaft will do the opposite.  It will launch low, not fly as far and not get the proper roll.  For example, I watched a couple of my normal playing partners buy a driver with a Hzrdus Smoke shaft last year and they just couldn't get the thing off the ground even with the proper shaft flex for their swing speed.  The shaft profile just wasn't correct for them.


Driver: Taylormade '16 M2, Aldila NV 2KXV X

3W:  Taylormade '16 M2, Speeder 661 X

3:  Callaway X-forged UT 21*

4-P:  Callaway X-Forged, Modus 3 120 - S

Wedges:  50* - Callaway Apex Pro 19, 54* - Taylormade Milled Grind 2 black, 58* - Taylormade Milled Grind 2 black

Putter:  currently Odyssey Works V-Line Versa CB - 36"

Ball - Bridgestone Tour B X

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In my limited experience of adjustable weighting (I currently play a Wilson Staff Cortex driver that has the adjustable weight front to back), I have noticed that the movable weight also does not influence ball flight as much as you would think. I would venture to say that adjusting hosel settings would have the biggest effect. After that, I would say the shaft is the next biggest factor to altering ball flight. I will link a video Tour Experience Golf (TXG) did a while back looking at the role of the golf shaft. They do a really good job at explaining how the golf shaft can be used to alter ball flight, etc. 

 

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:mizuno-small: CLK 2017 22* 

:taylormade-small: M4 Irons 4-PW (KBS MAX 85g Stiff Steel Shafts, Std Length & Lie)

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10 hours ago, AGutierrez7 said:

In my limited experience of adjustable weighting (I currently play a Wilson Staff Cortex driver that has the adjustable weight front to back), I have noticed that the movable weight also does not influence ball flight as much as you would think. I would venture to say that adjusting hosel settings would have the biggest effect. After that, I would say the shaft is the next biggest factor to altering ball flight. I will link a video Tour Experience Golf (TXG) did a while back looking at the role of the golf shaft. They do a really good job at explaining how the golf shaft can be used to alter ball flight, etc. 

 

Thanks for the link. I am a regular follower of the TXG and have seen pretty much all their videos, some numerous times. Ever since I discovered TXG, all other youtube celebrity's golf gear and technology related reviews, opinions and videos have been somewhat devalued in my eyes. Mark Crossfield is great to spark a critical view about the cometics and advertisement claims of the golf industry and Rick Shiels' reviews are entertaining, but TXG is where it is at. 

Video bellow is made about the adjustable drivers, specifically if their adjustments work. Its a great one. My only wish would be that the video would be more structured and the variables would be more separated. It would be great if they would concentrate for a couple of hits with different settings only on adjustable hosel in the most extreme positions (while the weights would be in ''neutral setting'') and then reverse the process with the hosel in neutral position but with moving the weights in the most extreme positions. For the fun, finally, it would be great to make, using all the settings, the driver the most hook and slice biased. In my opinion that is the most scientific way to approach the question whether the adjustable golf clubs work and which is the most important. If someone discovered a video or an article that is structured in that way, it would be much appreciated if they would share it with all of us.

 

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Irons: :srixon-small: Z U65, 3 iron (20°), Mitsubishi Tensei CK Pro White Hybrid 90S; :srixon-small: Z U65, 4 iron (23°); :srixon-small: Z565, 5-PW, Nippon Modus 105S,

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Putter: :cleveland-small: TFI 2135 8.0, 35''

Ball: INESIS Tour 900

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Actually all 3 affect it in different ways for different players. The main 2 things IMHO are shaft kick points and weight placement. But it will vary because everyone's swing and AOA is different and also everyone's maximum SS is at different places through the hitting zone. I guarantee some of the younger high speed players ( regardless of handicap) would high hook the snot out of my driver where I hit a mid height baby cut. But it is set for me with the weight in the stock position in the middle rear and about 3 grams of lead tape on the shaft side of the sole. I also have the stock shaft really soft tipped. When I got to messing with that driver I ordered another shaft from Honma stock regular flex un trimmed. I also did a lot of tuning on the set up because those drivers do not adjust like anything else on the market. They use a concentric bushing in the adjustments which I fully understand from messing with truck suspensions. They also have a special wrench for adjustments because you make 3. 

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Driver Homna  G1- X Stock Homna Regular shaft

4 wood Adams Tight Lies 

20* Hybrid Adams Boxer Ozik Matrix R shaft

24* Hybrid Adams A 10-OS Pro Launch Red R

Irons 5 thru PW 1980 Macgregor VIP Hogan Apex #2 shafts

SW- Macgregor LRA 56* S-400

Putter 1997 Santa Fe rusty as heck

 

 

 

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Great topic, sorry I missed out on the main buzz and chatter, things have been absolutely crazy for me at work.  I wonder why. 🙂

 

At any rate I was surprised to see a few guys make statements that made it seem as if shaft didn't matter.  I'm sure that they didn't mean quite that. The shaft does matter as does the face angle (loft especially).  Moveable weights are to a far lesser extent.  In the end though loft and shaft combined are swing dependent.  I read the Golf Digest article mentioned earlier.  I'm here to say that it is most certainly not true for my swing any more than there are guys here who fit into a size 42 jacket and I'd look like a bum in it.  For me more loft, equals more carry and a heavier shaft than stock reduces the spin so that I get a great decent angle and optimal roll out.  But I also play in Florida where even dry conditions are fairly wet, you need the carry for distance - it could be that if I were still playing in the Midwest I'd want a little less loft and flatter trajectory to get more distance. 

However you go about it - lay down $100 and get with a pro or self experimentation until you get it right, you need to be fit to maximize results plain and simple.

 

Good luck!

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Ping G410 - set at 12 degrees, fade setting - Alpha Distanza 40 weak R flex shaft

Tour Exotics EX 10 3 wood

Ping G410 5-9 wood

G30 6-PW -  Aerotech FT 500 shafts

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Also have the Ping G410 plus. The Loft was the most noticeable difference. Driver is set on Neutral and 12’. Previous Driver was 10.5’ and approximately same ball flight.


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy


Rick

 

 

Left Hand, 

Driver; Ping G410 Plus

5 Wood; Cally Steelhead 

5 Hybrid; Cally Steelhead

Irons; Ping G410 5-SW & Mizno 919 Hot Metal 5-SW

Putter; Waaay too many to list

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On 4/6/2020 at 10:04 AM, B.Boston said:

That makes perfect sense too.  There was an article a while back from Tom Wishon talking about adjustable drivers.  All of those + and - loft adjustments really tweak face angle more than anything.  But if you hover it and/or square the face with your hands at address then you're actually getting that loft adjustment.

It's from a while back, but I still find it informative:

 

Great video. Clear and concise, easy to understand.

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On 4/6/2020 at 9:04 AM, B.Boston said:

That makes perfect sense too.  There was an article a while back from Tom Wishon talking about adjustable drivers.  All of those + and - loft adjustments really tweak face angle more than anything.  But if you hover it and/or square the face with your hands at address then you're actually getting that loft adjustment.

It's from a while back, but I still find it informative:

 

Very good video.  This is the reason why I try to buy an adjustable driver with as close to the correct loft in the standard position as possible.

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Driver: Taylormade '16 M2, Aldila NV 2KXV X

3W:  Taylormade '16 M2, Speeder 661 X

3:  Callaway X-forged UT 21*

4-P:  Callaway X-Forged, Modus 3 120 - S

Wedges:  50* - Callaway Apex Pro 19, 54* - Taylormade Milled Grind 2 black, 58* - Taylormade Milled Grind 2 black

Putter:  currently Odyssey Works V-Line Versa CB - 36"

Ball - Bridgestone Tour B X

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Also have the Ping G410 plus. The Loft was the most noticeable difference. Driver is set on Neutral and 12’. Previous Driver was 10.5’ and approximately same ball flight.


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

Rick,

I know you mentioned this in other posts - which shaft do you have on the 410? I've got the CB 65 R Flex. Also have you played around with the different loft settings or are you sticking with the original setting by the fitter?


Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy
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Left Hand orientation

:ping-small: G410 SFT driver 

:cobra-small: F Max 5 wood

:ping-small:  9 wood
:ping-small:  410  Hybrids 22*, 26*
:wilson-small: C300 4i-GP
:cleveland-small:  Wedges RTX 3.0: 52*, 56*
:ping-small: EYE 2 Wedge 60*

:odyssey-small: O Works putter
:918457628_PrecisionPro:NX9-HD

:CaddyTek: - 4 Wheel 
:footjoy-small: - too many shoes to list and so many to buy

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:SuperSpeed: Official Tester 2020   Beginning Driver Speed  - 78

 

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Also have the Ping G410 plus. The Loft was the most noticeable difference. Driver is set on Neutral and 12’. Previous Driver was 10.5’ and approximately same ball flight.


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

Rick,

I know you mentioned this in other posts - which shaft do you have on the 410? I've got the CB 65 R Flex. Also have you played around with the different loft settings or are you sticking with the original setting by the fitter?


Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy

Left Hand orientation

:ping-small: G410 SFT driver 

:cobra-small: F Max 5 wood

:ping-small:  9 wood
:ping-small:  410  Hybrids 22*, 26*
:wilson-small: C300 4i-GP
:cleveland-small:  Wedges RTX 3.0: 52*, 56*
:ping-small: EYE 2 Wedge 60*

:odyssey-small: O Works putter
:918457628_PrecisionPro:NX9-HD

:CaddyTek: - 4 Wheel 
:footjoy-small: - too many shoes to list and so many to buy

:1590477705_SunMountain:

:SuperSpeed: Official Tester 2020   Beginning Driver Speed  - 78

 

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Rick,

I know you mentioned this in other posts - which shaft do you have on the 410? I've got the CB 65 R Flex. Also have you played around with the different loft settings or are you sticking with the original setting by the fitter?


Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy

I have the stock Alta CB Senior Flex. I was alternating back & forth between the Regular & Senior Flex but went w Senior. I figured I wasn’t going to get younger or faster any time soon. Was good choice for me.
I did play around with all the settings. I figure there’s a big difference indoors and out in real world. After a lot of playing around I ended up w settings Fitter recommended. I thought that was really interesting.
Senior Flex, 12’ & neutral.
I tried draw & fade settings but didn’t work for me.


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy
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Rick

 

 

Left Hand, 

Driver; Ping G410 Plus

5 Wood; Cally Steelhead 

5 Hybrid; Cally Steelhead

Irons; Ping G410 5-SW & Mizno 919 Hot Metal 5-SW

Putter; Waaay too many to list

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Posted (edited)
On 4/3/2020 at 1:21 PM, Calvo90 said:

Thanks everyone for their response.

I noticed the same as Camille Bissarro when lofting down my driver. Strikes were slightly higher on the face and face was more open (judging from seeing bigger fades). I probably changed my delivery too when i saw less loft. All this factors led to a higher delivered loft and actually higher ball flight. 

In light of new information I think driver head is due for a change. I only wish I would have a competent and well equipped fitter closer than 800km... insert loud sigh... 😩

Do you guys think MGS True golf fit would be of any help?

Having used adjustable drivers since they came out and participated in countless discussions with others, with greater knowledge than mine of this topic, I have come to understand how these adjustments affect golfers.

With movable weights, it has been published that the amount of weight must be in excess of 20g to move the actual CoG of the cluhead a significant amount. That means 20g TAKEN from one extreme location and moved to the opposite extreme location, not just simply adding 20g somewhere. Tests have shown that heel-toe movement, which should affect the closure rate of the face, makes less difference than face back movement, which can influence backspin and launch angle. We have seen this proven in several reviews of clubs over the last few years.

Hosel adjustments, depending on the specific adapter, CAN affect Loft, Lie and Face Angle. The adapters change the angular relationship between the shaft and the clubhead, exactly like bending the hosel does. Early on, there were many discussions on whether these adjustments actually caused changes in loft OR Face angle, and it depended on the method used to measure the club. Some loft measuring practices suggest that wood heads be allowed to sole naturally, which will indicate a Face Angle change and NO measured Loft change.  Others suggest the face be squared, which will indicate a Loft change. The Lie will change the same amount as the Loft with the U or D markings indicating a more upright lie and the F markings indicating a flatter lie. Actual Lie angle is typically indicated in the club specs on the manufacturer's website.

With that being said, HOW these adjustments affect a golfer is dependent on the golfer themselves! With the Loft/Face Angle argument, it depends on whether the golfer delivers the face at the adjusted Face Angle OR physically squares it (as mentioned a few posts back). If the golfer allows the Face Angle change to stay in place when they swing the club, then left/right curvature will usually be changed. These golfers have been taught (or taught themselves) to allow the club to "sole out" or come to rest in a natural resting position when they place it on the ground to take their grip. These are the folks who are affected in some way when the club sits Open or Closed and may have issues controlling ball flight because of it.

If the golfer squares the face, physically overriding the FA change, then the loft change will come into play. These golfers (which include myself) physically aim the clubface when taking their grip, much like most golfers do with their irons. Any measured Face Angle change is overridden by us holding the club in the position we choose. Personally, I don't take notice of how a Driver sits when deciding if I want to try it or not.

BT

Edited by RI_Redneck
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