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Center Shaft vs Plumbers Neck


PingMD702

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Hey everyone! I wanted to get your input on a plumber neck vs center shafted putter. I currently own 2 Bettinardi's, 2020 BB8W and 2019 SS28 Slotback Center Shaft. A little about my putting stroke, when I was fitted, I was informed that I have a tendency to keep the face open at impact about 2.4 degrees. At that time, I was using a face balanced mallet. The two putters I own do have some toe hang to it which I feel fits my slightly arced stroke. I know that we all have natural arc in all our strokes. Im curious which would the best option for me? Thank you in advance to all who reply! Hope everyone in safe during these crazy times! 

Driver: Titleist TSr3 10 Degree Fujikura Ventus Blue TR Velocore 6x D1/Neutral setting (RH)

4 Wood: Titleist TSr2 16.5 Degree Fujikura Ventus Blue Velocore 7x D1 setting (RH)

7 Wood: Titleist TSr2 21 Degree Fujikura Ventus Blue Velocore 7x D1 setting (RH)

5 Hybrid: Titleist TSr2 24 Degree Fujikura Ventus Blue Velocore 8x B2 setting (RH)

Irons: 2023 Titleist Black T100 5-PW AMT White S300 Onyx (RH)

Wedges: 2023 Titleist Black T100 50 AMT White S300 Onyx, Titleist SM9 Premium Jet Black 54D/12 bounce, 58M/8 bounce BGT ZNE 130 wedge shafts (RH)

Putter: Bettinardi Wizard Inovai 8.0 Custom with Stability Shaft Tour Black

Ball: 2022 Titleist ProV1x (yellow)

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Let me start with the obligatory, just go get fit. 😉

Now that that is out of the way, I don't trust center shafted putters. I've had one, #7, and I like the look, but the performance isn't there with them. 

 

I'm going to assume that since you leave the face open you miss putts to the right? (and that you are right handed). If that is the case, less toe hang could help. In theory, you hit your ideal toe hang straight. Less toe hang should make it tend to miss left, and more should tend to miss right. Center shafted I think tend to randomly explode and lead to a 300% increase in 3 putts. 

Less arc, strong arc, no arc, Noah's ark, sometimes what we think we need isn't what we really do. Miss right = Less hang, miss left = more hang. That is my really simple advice. 

 

*edited correct factual error as to not mislead others in the future. 

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Driver:   :taylormade-small: SIM2 Max 12° - Accra TZ6 M4

FW Wood:     th.jpg.d6e2abdaeb04f007fd259c979f389de6.jpg Gen5 0311 7w  Fujikura Motore X F3

Irons:   :srixon-small: ZX7 PW-7i, ZX5 6i-5i

Wedges: :cleveland-small:  Zipcore 50°, 58°

Putter:   :taylormade-small: MySpider X

Cart: image.png.5aa5e9b8c0d6e08a2b12be76a06a07ca.pngOnewheel XR+

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Hey everyone! I wanted to get your input on a plumber neck vs center shafted putter. I currently own 2 Bettinardi's, 2020 BB8W and 2019 SS28 Slotback Center Shaft. A little about my putting stroke, when I was fitted, I was informed that I have a tendency to keep the face open at impact about 2.4 degrees. At that time, I was using a face balanced mallet. The two putters I own do have some toe hang to it which I feel fits my slightly arced stroke. I know that we all have natural arc in all our strokes. Im curious which would the best option for me? Thank you in advance to all who reply! Hope everyone in safe during these crazy times! 

I had a fantastic discussion with [mention]cnosil [/mention] and I hope he doesn’t mind me mentioning him. He is one of a few people here that has a great grasp of the putting stroke.

There is a lot of discussion about toe hang and arc and one aspect that I neglected to consider was stroke bias. While reviewing some video with him, he was able to walk me through my stroke. I have a slight arc stroke with an Anser 2 which on paper, is a good mix.

My bias was to allow the head to stay closer to the line on the back stroke and the head continues inside the line through the stroke. If I use a face balanced putter, the face would be more apt to remain closed through impact as the bias continues to the left and inside the target line.

His recommendation was a putter head that remains open slightly through impact to allow the ball to remain along the target line through the stroke. We took arc, putter type and bias and put those three together to identify which putter geometry would work best for my mechanics.

BTW...how do you like that 2020 BB series? I am close to pulling the trigger on a BB1 Flow.
  • Titleist TSi3 Fujikura Speeder NX Blue 60X
  • TaylorMade SIM2 3 wood Fujilkura Ventus Blue 7-X
  • Titleist U505 2 Tensei 1K Black 85 X
  • Titleist T100 4-P Nippon Modus 3 120X
  • PING S159 50-S 55-H 59-T DG X100
  • Vokey SM8 50, SM9 54 & 60  Nippon Modus 3 120s
  • L.A.B. MEZZ Max Broom Accra 47" 79.5*
  • Srixon Z-Star XV 

Currently testing the 2024 PING S159 wedges…

https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/63483-testers-announced-ping-s159-wedges/

Was testing, still loving the 2023 Titleist T100 Irons 4-P

https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/60456-titleist-t-series-irons-2023-forum-review/

 

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IMO, if you have a slight arc, youd probably be happier with a plumbers neck.  The reason I say that is that a center shaft putter is designed more to keep the face square through the stroke, whereas a plumbers neck is designed more to let the face open and close through the stroke.  With a slight arc, you kind of want something that swings open and closed a bit.

Ive used center shaft putters in the past back when I tried to do a SBST stroke and they worked well but you kind of have to make some manipulations to your stroke to achieve that.  Center shaft putters do have their advantages and IMO are very forgiving putters but they may not be the best for your stroke.

I do think that you should just try both and see what you like.  Who knows, you may like the center shaft.

"I suppose its better to be a master of 7 than to be vaguely familiar with 14." - Chick Evans

Whats in my Sun Mountain 2.5+ stand bag?

Woods: Tommy Armour Atomic 10.5* 

Hybrid: Mizuno MP Fli-Hi 3H

Irons: Mizuno T-Zoid True 5, 7 and 9-irons

Wedge: Mizuno S18 54* and Top Flite chipper

Putter: Mizuno Bettinardi A-02

Ball: Maxfli Tour X

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My thoughts and assumptions that you want to change the putter not your stroke or setup.

Center shafted putters typically rotate open and closed with the same ease. They are fine, but won’t generally help close or open the face. Basically they don’t seem to help when you need the face more open or closed

As you indicated you are leaving the face open so you need a putter that will help deliver the face more closed at impact than what you are currently using. That would suggest less toe hang and/or less weight. This will help keep the putter in a better position as it travels along its path.

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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11 hours ago, Thin2win said:

Let me start with the obligatory, just go get fit. 😉

Now that that is out of the way, I don't trust center shafted putters. I've had one, #7, and I like the look, but the performance isn't there with them. 

 

I'm going to assume that since you leave the face open you miss putts to the right? (and that you are right handed). If that is the case, more toe hang could help. In theory, you hit your ideal toe hang straight. More toe hang should make it tend to miss left, and less should tend to miss right. Center shafted I think tend to randomly explode and lead to a 300% increase in 3 putts. 

Less arc, strong arc, no arc, Noah's ark, sometimes what we think we need isn't what we really do. Miss right = more hang, miss left = less hang. That is my really simple advice. 

I appreciate the post! I’ll definitely keep that simple advice in mind for sure!!

Driver: Titleist TSr3 10 Degree Fujikura Ventus Blue TR Velocore 6x D1/Neutral setting (RH)

4 Wood: Titleist TSr2 16.5 Degree Fujikura Ventus Blue Velocore 7x D1 setting (RH)

7 Wood: Titleist TSr2 21 Degree Fujikura Ventus Blue Velocore 7x D1 setting (RH)

5 Hybrid: Titleist TSr2 24 Degree Fujikura Ventus Blue Velocore 8x B2 setting (RH)

Irons: 2023 Titleist Black T100 5-PW AMT White S300 Onyx (RH)

Wedges: 2023 Titleist Black T100 50 AMT White S300 Onyx, Titleist SM9 Premium Jet Black 54D/12 bounce, 58M/8 bounce BGT ZNE 130 wedge shafts (RH)

Putter: Bettinardi Wizard Inovai 8.0 Custom with Stability Shaft Tour Black

Ball: 2022 Titleist ProV1x (yellow)

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6 hours ago, bens197 said:


I had a fantastic discussion with [mention]cnosil [/mention] and I hope he doesn’t mind me mentioning him. He is one of a few people here that has a great grasp of the putting stroke.

There is a lot of discussion about toe hang and arc and one aspect that I neglected to consider was stroke bias. While reviewing some video with him, he was able to walk me through my stroke. I have a slight arc stroke with an Anser 2 which on paper, is a good mix.

My bias was to allow the head to stay closer to the line on the back stroke and the head continues inside the line through the stroke. If I use a face balanced putter, the face would be more apt to remain closed through impact as the bias continues to the left and inside the target line.

His recommendation was a putter head that remains open slightly through impact to allow the ball to remain along the target line through the stroke. We took arc, putter type and bias and put those three together to identify which putter geometry would work best for my mechanics.

BTW...how do you like that 2020 BB series? I am close to pulling the trigger on a BB1 Flow.

Thank you for the post! I’ll definitely keep that in mind! I love the 2020 BB series! Awesome feel and sound! You can’t go wrong with any of the BB series putters. The BB1F is compact and looks perfect at address. Too bad I need a little more forgiving blade like putter haha

Driver: Titleist TSr3 10 Degree Fujikura Ventus Blue TR Velocore 6x D1/Neutral setting (RH)

4 Wood: Titleist TSr2 16.5 Degree Fujikura Ventus Blue Velocore 7x D1 setting (RH)

7 Wood: Titleist TSr2 21 Degree Fujikura Ventus Blue Velocore 7x D1 setting (RH)

5 Hybrid: Titleist TSr2 24 Degree Fujikura Ventus Blue Velocore 8x B2 setting (RH)

Irons: 2023 Titleist Black T100 5-PW AMT White S300 Onyx (RH)

Wedges: 2023 Titleist Black T100 50 AMT White S300 Onyx, Titleist SM9 Premium Jet Black 54D/12 bounce, 58M/8 bounce BGT ZNE 130 wedge shafts (RH)

Putter: Bettinardi Wizard Inovai 8.0 Custom with Stability Shaft Tour Black

Ball: 2022 Titleist ProV1x (yellow)

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4 hours ago, Retrogolfer36 said:

IMO, if you have a slight arc, youd probably be happier with a plumbers neck.  The reason I say that is that a center shaft putter is designed more to keep the face square through the stroke, whereas a plumbers neck is designed more to let the face open and close through the stroke.  With a slight arc, you kind of want something that swings open and closed a bit.

Ive used center shaft putters in the past back when I tried to do a SBST stroke and they worked well but you kind of have to make some manipulations to your stroke to achieve that.  Center shaft putters do have their advantages and IMO are very forgiving putters but they may not be the best for your stroke.

I do think that you should just try both and see what you like.  Who knows, you may like the center shaft.

Thank you for the post! I have gotten to play a round with the center shafted and it wasn’t too bad but I definitely was missing right a lot more. I have to bring the plumbers neck on the course and split the 9s too see how many putts I make each 9.

Driver: Titleist TSr3 10 Degree Fujikura Ventus Blue TR Velocore 6x D1/Neutral setting (RH)

4 Wood: Titleist TSr2 16.5 Degree Fujikura Ventus Blue Velocore 7x D1 setting (RH)

7 Wood: Titleist TSr2 21 Degree Fujikura Ventus Blue Velocore 7x D1 setting (RH)

5 Hybrid: Titleist TSr2 24 Degree Fujikura Ventus Blue Velocore 8x B2 setting (RH)

Irons: 2023 Titleist Black T100 5-PW AMT White S300 Onyx (RH)

Wedges: 2023 Titleist Black T100 50 AMT White S300 Onyx, Titleist SM9 Premium Jet Black 54D/12 bounce, 58M/8 bounce BGT ZNE 130 wedge shafts (RH)

Putter: Bettinardi Wizard Inovai 8.0 Custom with Stability Shaft Tour Black

Ball: 2022 Titleist ProV1x (yellow)

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4 hours ago, cnosil said:

My thoughts and assumptions that you want to change the putter not your stroke or setup.

Center shafted putters typically rotate open and closed with the same ease. They are fine, but won’t generally help close or open the face. Basically they don’t seem to help when you need the face more open or closed

As you indicated you are leaving the face open so you need a putter that will help deliver the face more closed at impact than what you are currently using. That would suggest less toe hang and/or less weight. This will help keep the putter in a better position as it travels along its path.

Thank you for the post! You are correct, I am just debating which putter to off load. I don’t wanna mess with anything too drastically. What attracted me to the center shafted putter because it offered toe hang but I guess it’s still more for the SBST stroke. 

Driver: Titleist TSr3 10 Degree Fujikura Ventus Blue TR Velocore 6x D1/Neutral setting (RH)

4 Wood: Titleist TSr2 16.5 Degree Fujikura Ventus Blue Velocore 7x D1 setting (RH)

7 Wood: Titleist TSr2 21 Degree Fujikura Ventus Blue Velocore 7x D1 setting (RH)

5 Hybrid: Titleist TSr2 24 Degree Fujikura Ventus Blue Velocore 8x B2 setting (RH)

Irons: 2023 Titleist Black T100 5-PW AMT White S300 Onyx (RH)

Wedges: 2023 Titleist Black T100 50 AMT White S300 Onyx, Titleist SM9 Premium Jet Black 54D/12 bounce, 58M/8 bounce BGT ZNE 130 wedge shafts (RH)

Putter: Bettinardi Wizard Inovai 8.0 Custom with Stability Shaft Tour Black

Ball: 2022 Titleist ProV1x (yellow)

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Thank you for the post! You are correct, I am just debating which putter to off load. I don’t wanna mess with anything too drastically. What attracted me to the center shafted putter because it offered toe hang but I guess it’s still more for the SBST stroke. 

Toe hang must be a Seemore? Not really true center shafted and works well for someone that prefers the face a bit open at impact.

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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5 minutes ago, cnosil said:


Toe hang must be a Seemore? Not really true center shafted and works well for someone that prefers the face a bit open at impact.

The center shaft putter I’m using is a bettinardi studio stock 28 slot back. 

Driver: Titleist TSr3 10 Degree Fujikura Ventus Blue TR Velocore 6x D1/Neutral setting (RH)

4 Wood: Titleist TSr2 16.5 Degree Fujikura Ventus Blue Velocore 7x D1 setting (RH)

7 Wood: Titleist TSr2 21 Degree Fujikura Ventus Blue Velocore 7x D1 setting (RH)

5 Hybrid: Titleist TSr2 24 Degree Fujikura Ventus Blue Velocore 8x B2 setting (RH)

Irons: 2023 Titleist Black T100 5-PW AMT White S300 Onyx (RH)

Wedges: 2023 Titleist Black T100 50 AMT White S300 Onyx, Titleist SM9 Premium Jet Black 54D/12 bounce, 58M/8 bounce BGT ZNE 130 wedge shafts (RH)

Putter: Bettinardi Wizard Inovai 8.0 Custom with Stability Shaft Tour Black

Ball: 2022 Titleist ProV1x (yellow)

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The center shaft putter I’m using is a bettinardi studio stock 28 slot back. 

Didn’t realize it had toe hang. 360gr and that toe hang, it will tend to favor open to path.

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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8 hours ago, cnosil said:


Didn’t realize it had toe hang. 360gr and that toe hang, it will tend to favor open to path.

This is what I got off their website. 

Screen Shot 2020-04-07 at 9.13.50 PM.png

Driver: Titleist TSr3 10 Degree Fujikura Ventus Blue TR Velocore 6x D1/Neutral setting (RH)

4 Wood: Titleist TSr2 16.5 Degree Fujikura Ventus Blue Velocore 7x D1 setting (RH)

7 Wood: Titleist TSr2 21 Degree Fujikura Ventus Blue Velocore 7x D1 setting (RH)

5 Hybrid: Titleist TSr2 24 Degree Fujikura Ventus Blue Velocore 8x B2 setting (RH)

Irons: 2023 Titleist Black T100 5-PW AMT White S300 Onyx (RH)

Wedges: 2023 Titleist Black T100 50 AMT White S300 Onyx, Titleist SM9 Premium Jet Black 54D/12 bounce, 58M/8 bounce BGT ZNE 130 wedge shafts (RH)

Putter: Bettinardi Wizard Inovai 8.0 Custom with Stability Shaft Tour Black

Ball: 2022 Titleist ProV1x (yellow)

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On 4/7/2020 at 3:18 PM, PingMD702 said:

Thank you for the post! I have gotten to play a round with the center shafted and it wasn’t too bad but I definitely was missing right a lot more. I have to bring the plumbers neck on the course and split the 9s too see how many putts I make each 9.

Yeah, thats kind of what a center shaft will do sometimes.  Like I said, the face doesnt want to rotate through the stroke.  I love center shaft putters for how they frame the ball and for how forgiving they are but my miss is a miss to the right and for that reason, they arent for me.  People love them though.

"I suppose its better to be a master of 7 than to be vaguely familiar with 14." - Chick Evans

Whats in my Sun Mountain 2.5+ stand bag?

Woods: Tommy Armour Atomic 10.5* 

Hybrid: Mizuno MP Fli-Hi 3H

Irons: Mizuno T-Zoid True 5, 7 and 9-irons

Wedge: Mizuno S18 54* and Top Flite chipper

Putter: Mizuno Bettinardi A-02

Ball: Maxfli Tour X

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7 hours ago, Retrogolfer36 said:

Yeah, thats kind of what a center shaft will do sometimes.  Like I said, the face doesnt want to rotate through the stroke.  I love center shaft putters for how they frame the ball and for how forgiving they are but my miss is a miss to the right and for that reason, they arent for me.  People love them though.

For sure! Appreciate the input! I managed to get the ping putter fitting app and got some data from it if anyone can give their input on it? Thanks in advance!

0F06A562-A901-4625-BEEF-100D72ADBBCC.png

52E2A7BE-80F5-4D97-9403-D81958748E58.png

Driver: Titleist TSr3 10 Degree Fujikura Ventus Blue TR Velocore 6x D1/Neutral setting (RH)

4 Wood: Titleist TSr2 16.5 Degree Fujikura Ventus Blue Velocore 7x D1 setting (RH)

7 Wood: Titleist TSr2 21 Degree Fujikura Ventus Blue Velocore 7x D1 setting (RH)

5 Hybrid: Titleist TSr2 24 Degree Fujikura Ventus Blue Velocore 8x B2 setting (RH)

Irons: 2023 Titleist Black T100 5-PW AMT White S300 Onyx (RH)

Wedges: 2023 Titleist Black T100 50 AMT White S300 Onyx, Titleist SM9 Premium Jet Black 54D/12 bounce, 58M/8 bounce BGT ZNE 130 wedge shafts (RH)

Putter: Bettinardi Wizard Inovai 8.0 Custom with Stability Shaft Tour Black

Ball: 2022 Titleist ProV1x (yellow)

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  • 4 weeks later...

IMG_1880.JPG

Based off that data from the ping app which putter among these three would be best in terms of toe hang?


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

Driver: Titleist TSr3 10 Degree Fujikura Ventus Blue TR Velocore 6x D1/Neutral setting (RH)

4 Wood: Titleist TSr2 16.5 Degree Fujikura Ventus Blue Velocore 7x D1 setting (RH)

7 Wood: Titleist TSr2 21 Degree Fujikura Ventus Blue Velocore 7x D1 setting (RH)

5 Hybrid: Titleist TSr2 24 Degree Fujikura Ventus Blue Velocore 8x B2 setting (RH)

Irons: 2023 Titleist Black T100 5-PW AMT White S300 Onyx (RH)

Wedges: 2023 Titleist Black T100 50 AMT White S300 Onyx, Titleist SM9 Premium Jet Black 54D/12 bounce, 58M/8 bounce BGT ZNE 130 wedge shafts (RH)

Putter: Bettinardi Wizard Inovai 8.0 Custom with Stability Shaft Tour Black

Ball: 2022 Titleist ProV1x (yellow)

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44 minutes ago, PingMD702 said:


Based off that data from the ping app which putter among these three would be best in terms of toe hang?
 

Not enough putts in your ping app post to provide any valuable input.  Your 3 putts are all over the place.     If I had to pick based on the 3 putters you show,  I would lean toward the far right,  but that is without knowing any specs on the putters. 

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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Not enough putts in your ping app post to provide any valuable input.  Your 3 putts are all over the place.     If I had to pick based on the 3 putters you show,  I would lean toward the far right,  but that is without knowing any specs on the putters. 

Let me get some fresh data for you haha


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

Driver: Titleist TSr3 10 Degree Fujikura Ventus Blue TR Velocore 6x D1/Neutral setting (RH)

4 Wood: Titleist TSr2 16.5 Degree Fujikura Ventus Blue Velocore 7x D1 setting (RH)

7 Wood: Titleist TSr2 21 Degree Fujikura Ventus Blue Velocore 7x D1 setting (RH)

5 Hybrid: Titleist TSr2 24 Degree Fujikura Ventus Blue Velocore 8x B2 setting (RH)

Irons: 2023 Titleist Black T100 5-PW AMT White S300 Onyx (RH)

Wedges: 2023 Titleist Black T100 50 AMT White S300 Onyx, Titleist SM9 Premium Jet Black 54D/12 bounce, 58M/8 bounce BGT ZNE 130 wedge shafts (RH)

Putter: Bettinardi Wizard Inovai 8.0 Custom with Stability Shaft Tour Black

Ball: 2022 Titleist ProV1x (yellow)

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@PingMD702 I would question your putting first before equipment. 

3 things come to mind:

  1. I can guess you might be chasing the line with your right hand which causes the face to be open. Try to keep the right hand wrist angle quiet through the whole stroke. The putting stroke comes from the rotation of the shoulders without any hand movement.
  2. Or, you might have the ball to far back in your stance which doesn't give the face enough time to close. My coach originally taught me to keep the ball closer to my lead foot which worked great for Anser style putters (for me). When I switched to a mallet a more centered ball placement was more consistent. Play with it while trying to just make a good stroke with different placements until one works. 
  3. You might be standing too far from the ball or to close. This can cause poor alignment to the start line and misperception of what straight is. I use a laser to practice standing over the ball and seeing the line to the whole. I make adjustments until when I stand over the putter and turn my head to the hole that it is perfectly in line.

A simple drill is to use a yard stick. Put the ball on top of the stick and putt the ball trying to keep the ball on the stick the whole length. That will result in plus or minus a half of a degree. 2.4 degrees open is 5 times worse. Half a degree is a missed putt at 20ft but made at 15ft and closer. 2.4 degrees is a possible missed 4ft putt.

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@PingMD702 I would question your putting first before equipment. 
3 things come to mind:
  1. I can guess you might be chasing the line with your right hand which causes the face to be open. Try to keep the right hand wrist angle quiet through the whole stroke. The putting stroke comes from the rotation of the shoulders without any hand movement.
  2. Or, you might have the ball to far back in your stance which doesn't give the face enough time to close. My coach originally taught me to keep the ball closer to my lead foot which worked great for Anser style putters (for me). When I switched to a mallet a more centered ball placement was more consistent. Play with it while trying to just make a good stroke with different placements until one works. 
  3. You might be standing too far from the ball or to close. This can cause poor alignment to the start line and misperception of what straight is. I use a laser to practice standing over the ball and seeing the line to the whole. I make adjustments until when I stand over the putter and turn my head to the hole that it is perfectly in line.
A simple drill is to use a yard stick. Put the ball on top of the stick and putt the ball trying to keep the ball on the stick the whole length. That will result in plus or minus a half of a degree. 2.4 degrees open is 5 times worse. Half a degree is a missed putt at 20ft but made at 15ft and closer. 2.4 degrees is a possible missed 4ft putt.

Chasing the line with the right hand doesn’t automatically mean the face will be open. Tiger is a right arm driven putter and “hooks” the ball with a closed face.
There are lots of ways to power the stroke. Shoulders, left side, right side, and arms with no shoulders. All of them can be effective. It is about understanding the impact of those decisions.

I agree the the inconsistencies in the putting stroke should be resolved first, but a putter that doesn’t match a players choices can influence the stroke.

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2 hours ago, cnosil said:


Chasing the line with the right hand doesn’t automatically mean the face will be open. Tiger is a right arm driven putter and “hooks” the ball with a closed face.
There are lots of ways to power the stroke. Shoulders, left side, right side, and arms with no shoulders. All of them can be effective. It is about understanding the impact of those decisions.

I agree the the inconsistencies in the putting stroke should be resolved first, but a putter that doesn’t match a players choices can influence the stroke.

I practice with 5 different putters. All have different head shapes, swingweight, shaft length and neck design. What I notice is a good stroke with good alignment on any of them results in a good putt. 

And even Tiger's right hand power in his putting remains quiet in the wrist movement-no flipping.

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I practice with 5 different putters. All have different head shapes, swingweight, shaft length and neck design. What I notice is a good stroke with good alignment on any of them results in a good putt. 
And even Tiger's right hand power in his putting remains quiet in the wrist movement-no flipping.

No one said you can’t putt well with different putters. The bigger question is which performs more
Consistently in all situations.

The is always some wrist movement in the putting stroke. No you are not flipping you wrist, but there is movement. The better putters reproduce that movement putt after putt

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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I cross hand my grip since I am most comfortable with the left handed grip. I originally starting putting left handed and I am right handed player. When I was fitted for a putter a few months back, it was said at impact the face is opened 2.4 degrees. The putter I was using was a facebalanced putter which doesn’t fit my stroke. The putter I am using has 1/2 toe hang but I am asking while I can still swap the putter at no cost if I should proceed with a putter with more toe hang. I will run the app again later and provide some new numbers


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I forget where I saw it but there was a video posted, maybe by TXG, talking about how unstable a center shafted putter can be since it will rotate open or closed more easily than other designs.  Not sure how much of that is true as I would think it has more to do with the weight in the head itself, but I just don't like that looks of them personally.

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