Scratch Golf Controversy

[TWShoot67]

To start this I want to say I just copied this from golftoimpress.com and the poster is TourSpecgolfer. I just had asked Ari from Scratch golf yesterday who does his irons because of all the mis information out there on the internet and then I read this today. Someone is misinformed!!! I'd still like to know who?

 

here the link: http://www.golftoimpress.com/2010/03/how-much-do-you-think-you-know-about-japanese-golf-club-manufacturing-part-1/

[Moecat]

Hardly shocking ... just goes to show that marketing is everything.

[GolfSpy Dave]

That was cool. I got a little lost with the numbers and the C's, but enlightening.

Maybe this is like the term "organic" there is a range of things that can all fall under the same heading.

[TWShoot67]

Hardly shocking ... just goes to show that marketing is everything.

 

 

Hardly shocking.... This article tells us that Mr. Miura (the hands of God) doesn't even forge clubs. you go to their site and there's a picture of him stoking the fire and his 14 step forging process. ALL BS. So now if this is all true it makes you wonder about everything we've heard from all of the OEM's. I know marking is the name of the game but I didn't know LYING about what you do and what materials you use was part of the game. That's my point. I would like some of the forgers to come out and say what's what. It sounds to me like one of the only honest OEM's out there is Bridgestone. according to this article/blog that 1018 steel is not even being used. so harly shocking doesn't come to the top of my head. WOW!

[jamo]

Well that's kind of a letdown.

[GolfSpy Dave]

What are the credentials of the writer?

[TWShoot67]

That was cool. I got a little lost with the numbers and the C's, but enlightening.

Maybe this is like the term "organic" there is a range of things that can all fall under the same heading.

 

yes the 1st part of the article was a little technical, but the second part was basically telling all people like me who thought they were being told the truth about who does what behind these OEM's scene when it comes to forging and Mr. Miura are all just make believe fairy tales. I ask questions to many different people who say they are in the industry and you get all types of answers. whats wrong with the truth. It's like the great debate with Cameron putters and Bettinardi making putters for him then SC passing them off as his work.I just don't buy why people have to lie. whats wrong with the truth. I thought thats what this whole site was about. so I'm trying to find it out...the truth that is!

[Ari Techner]

That entire writeup is completely untrue. We used to work with Chris from Tour Spec Golf but stopped after he told me over and over again that he only cared about making sales and how much money he was making from a product and kept trying to get me to give him better margins so he "could" promote us more. He says what he thinks will help him sell the products that he is selling and has told me that specifically more than once.

 

We pay extra for our forgings that are made from 1018 carbon steel compared to what we would pay for 1025 or something harder. We even have higher minimums because we use an extra forging step. We use 1018 carbon steel because in our testing most players preferred the feel of it compared to the other metals that we tested. This specifically has helped us land Tour players Ryan Moore and Cristie Kerr who both cite feel as the main reason they play our clubs. I have been to the foundry in Japan many times and watched the whole process. The only Scratch clubs that are made in China are our 8620 wedges which are cast from 8620 "carbon" steel.

[TWShoot67]

What are the credentials of the writer?

I'm not sure but Ari might know as he supposedly worked with Ari from Scratch Golf. I've already written a email to Ari to see if he could clear some of this up and if this guys telling the truth. Because it's funny I just happened to ask Ari yesterday through a PM as to who does his irons (forging) for the simple reason that there's always so much MIS INFORMED people. I just to like to know what I'm buying and who did all the work. I guess we'll soon see if this guy is just a blogger that makes up stories or if he's got facts. But I would think their would be some major lawsuits if he's lied about what he has said about Mr. Miura not even forging a club that he's only a grinder. also that the photo's on Miura's website showing him forging clubs is all staged! maybe I shouldn't care but I do.

[jamo]

That entire writeup is completely untrue. We used to work with Chris from Tour Spec Golf but stopped after he told me over and over again that he only cared about making sales and how much money he was making from a product and kept trying to get me to give him better margins so he "could" promote us more. He says what he thinks will help him sell the products that he is selling and has told me that specifically more than once.

 

We pay extra for our forgings that are made from 1018 carbon steel compared to what we would pay for 1025 or something harder. We even have higher minimums because we use an extra forging step. We use 1018 carbon steel because in our testing most players preferred the feel of it compared to the other metals that we tested. This specifically has helped us land Tour players Ryan Moore and Cristie Kerr who both cite feel as the main reason they play our clubs. I have been to the foundry in Japan many times and watched the whole process. The only Scratch clubs that are made in China are our 8620 wedges which are cast from 8620 "carbon" steel.

 

Well, that's good to know.

[TWShoot67]

That entire writeup is completely untrue. We used to work with Chris from Tour Spec Golf but stopped after he told me over and over again that he only cared about making sales and how much money he was making from a product and kept trying to get me to give him better margins so he "could" promote us more. He says what he thinks will help him sell the products that he is selling and has told me that specifically more than once.

 

We pay extra for our forgings that are made from 1018 carbon steel compared to what we would pay for 1025 or something harder. We even have higher minimums because we use an extra forging step. We use 1018 carbon steel because in our testing most players preferred the feel of it compared to the other metals that we tested. This specifically has helped us land Tour players Ryan Moore and Cristie Kerr who both cite feel as the main reason they play our clubs. I have been to the foundry in Japan many times and watched the whole process. The only Scratch clubs that are made in China are our 8620 wedges which are cast from 8620 "carbon" steel.

 

Thank you Ari for clearing some of this up! So this guy chris from tourspec is just a blogger who wants ratings. Now if I can only get a hold of Mr. Miura! I'm sure if he's lied about Miura saying he doesn't even forge clubs and that he's only a grinder

 

Tim

[Moecat]

Hardly shocking.... This article tells us that Mr. Miura (the hands of God) doesn't even forge clubs. you go to their site and there's a picture of him stoking the fire and his 14 step forging process. ALL BS. So now if this is all true it makes you wonder about everything we've heard from all of the OEM's. I know marking is the name of the game but I didn't know LYING about what you do and what materials you use was part of the game. That's my point. I would like some of the forgers to come out and say what's what. It sounds to me like one of the only honest OEM's out there is Bridgestone. according to this article/blog that 1018 steel is not even being used. so harly shocking doesn't come to the top of my head. WOW!

 

Tim, what I've come to realize in my very short time involved with golf is that the game itself may be the only thing that's relatively noble.

 

But when it comes to the business side of golf? The "controversy" described in the article is just one of too many. I'll say this: in my line of work (NOT golf, by the way), if anyone deliberately misrepresented oneself in a similar manner, he/she would be immediately out of a job with little hope of finding another position in a similar field.

 

However, because we're talking about an industry that's largely driven by volume of sales, I'm not surprised at all that such outright lying occurs. This happens all over the place and all the time, and for us consumers "caveat emptor" should be a never-ending mantra.

[jamo]

However, because we're talking about an industry that's largely driven by volume of sales, I'm not surprised at all that such outright lying occurs. This happens all over the place and all the time, and for us consumers "caveat emptor" should be a never-ending mantra.

 

Case and point: Cobra and the 43* PW. Of course it's longer, it's a 9 iron!

[GolfSpy Dave]

That entire writeup is completely untrue. We used to work with Chris from Tour Spec Golf but stopped after he told me over and over again that he only cared about making sales and how much money he was making from a product and kept trying to get me to give him better margins so he "could" promote us more. He says what he thinks will help him sell the products that he is selling and has told me that specifically more than once.

 

We pay extra for our forgings that are made from 1018 carbon steel compared to what we would pay for 1025 or something harder. We even have higher minimums because we use an extra forging step. We use 1018 carbon steel because in our testing most players preferred the feel of it compared to the other metals that we tested. This specifically has helped us land Tour players Ryan Moore and Cristie Kerr who both cite feel as the main reason they play our clubs. I have been to the foundry in Japan many times and watched the whole process. The only Scratch clubs that are made in China are our 8620 wedges which are cast from 8620 "carbon" steel.

 

Again this forum is amazing, Thanks Ari. One for the first hand info on this and second for the image of watching your clubs in the foundry. I can only imagine how cool that first trip to Japan would have been.

[TWShoot67]

Tim, what I've come to realize in my very short time involved with golf is that the game itself may be the only thing that's relatively noble.

 

But when it comes to the business side of golf? The "controversy" described in the article is just one of too many. I'll say this: in my line of work (NOT golf, by the way), if anyone deliberately misrepresented oneself in a similar manner, he/she would be immediately out of a job with little hope of finding another position in a similar field.

 

However, because we're talking about an industry that's largely driven by volume of sales, I'm not surprised at all that such outright lying occurs. This happens all over the place and all the time, and for us consumers "caveat emptor" should be a never-ending mantra.

 

Moe, I know in my line of work it's cut and dry. I'm a plumber by trade and no one else does my work. I solder my own pipes I install my own, faucets,sinks,toilets etc. It would be like me telling my customers yes I made these faucets and their made from pure gold. Then install them and the customer finds out there gold plated and made by kolher. Now this is basically what he (Chris ) is telling us in the article that Mr. Miura buys the heads from a foundry somewhere and all Miura does is the grinding. Miura doesn't even have a 14 step process. So basically according to Chris Miura has duped the public.He also posted info saying the same about Scrath Golf which Ari was nice enough to explain who Chris is. Why have a website & Company that puts down other people in the same industry, is that what the world is today. I mean there's plenty of golfers who buy equipment, by lying about your competitors thats how you drive up your sales? That's a strange way of doing things. I'm going to try and get a response from Mr. Miura but I'll probably only get his secretary.

[GolfSpy_X]

Don't even get me started with the guy behind Tourspec. It would blow your minds.

 

Thank you Ari for clearing some of this up! So this guy chris from tourspec is just a blogger who wants ratings. Now if I can only get a hold of Mr. Miura! I'm sure if he's lied about Miura saying he doesn't even forge clubs and that he's only a grinder

 

Tim

[GolfSpy Dave]

Don't even get me started with the guy behind Tourspec. It would blow your minds.

For clarity, is this the same tourspecgolf that offers Japanese equipment online? Cool stuff, but really expensive.

[GolfSpy_X]

Yes same place Sactown. I could go on for days and days.

 

For clarity, is this the same tourspecgolf that offers Japanese equipment online? Cool stuff, but really expensive.

[GolfSpy Dave]

Yes same place Sactown. I could go on for days and days.

For some reason I think that I am glad that I never ordered the Como Come! spiderweb putter cover from them...

[TWShoot67]

Funny I just talked with Ari again and I already sent off a copy of this to Bill at Miura so to get a response and to let him know whats being printed about Mr. Miura. It's crazy that someone would try to discredit Scratch and Miura but stand up for bridgestone/tourstage. Now that makes me think that he sells more of the ladder.

[Ari Techner]

Funny I just talked with Ari again and I already sent off a copy of this to Bill at Miura so to get a response and to let him know whats being printed about Mr. Miura. It's crazy that someone would try to discredit Scratch and Miura but stand up for bridgestone/tourstage. Now that makes me think that he sells more of the ladder.

 

He does not sell Scratch or Miura but Bridgestone/TourStage is one of his main brands.

[Richie3Jack]

figures.

 

 

 

 

3JACK

[TWShoot67]

He does not sell Scratch or Miura but Bridgestone/TourStage is one of his main brands.

 

Wow now that's interesting..... the products he sells are the only ones that he has something good to say about in his article. Hmm

[TWShoot67]

OK boys I just received an email from Bill Holowaty from Miura Golf. I'm waiting to get permission from Bill as to posting his response to the article mention from OP. I invited Bill to post here as well as I gave him the link to this forum as well as this Topic! As soon as I hear something back I will update. to me this was very important, people shouldn't be able to post false statements and like I stated earlier I think this guy has dug his own grave on this one.

 

Tim

[Moecat]

OK boys I just received an email from Bill Holowaty from Miura Golf. I'm waiting to get permission from Bill as to posting his response to the article mention from OP. I invited Bill to post here as well as I gave him the link to this forum as well as this Topic! As soon as I hear something back I will update. to me this was very important, people shouldn't be able to post false statements and like I stated earlier I think this guy has dug his own grave on this one.

 

Tim

Tim, that'll be very interesting to read. Thanks for doing this follow-up!

[TWShoot67]

Tim, that'll be very interesting to read. Thanks for doing this follow-up!

 

No problem Moe. I'm just glad I caught this article/blog and was able to post what I felt was a very interesting piece. Now we have this forum where we're lucky enough to have people in the industry that can answer these questions almost instantly with what I feel is accurate information. basically what this site was made for to get accurate info, and to bring together people who just love golf! To get back to topic as soon as I get the permission from Bill to post the emails I will do that. I just don't want to do the wrong thing. I'm sure Bill will allow it as he said to me that he'd be glad to post on the forum. I have some other ideas as to getting the word out to everyone and I'm going to talk to the boss about that. stay tuned....LOL

[GolfSpy Dave]

Outstanding extra effort. This may be my favorite thread. Maybe second favorite after beer.

[TWShoot67]

Outstanding extra effort. This may be my favorite thread. Maybe second favorite after beer.

Thanks I appreciate the response.I just figured this was very very important subject matter. I needed to get to the bottom of this... you know? Too many years of thinking I know a subject where now I don't want to think I know I want to know! and yes Beer is always a great Topic, because like golf courses, there are some many great ones.

 

Tim

[SPY ZINGER]

I don't care what Scratch wedges are made of, they feel great and I love the grinds. Performance is the only thing that matters. Not articles about metal.

[GolfSpy Dave]

I don't care what Scratch wedges are made of, they feel great and I love the grinds. Performance is the only thing that matters. Not articles about metal.

Good point, but it is not really about metal, it is about misrepresentation and potential libel. I don't think that the outstanding playability of the Scratch wedge was ever in question.