Scratch Golf Controversy

[Ari Techner 1]

Funny I just talked with Ari again and I already sent off a copy of this to Bill at Miura so to get a response and to let him know whats being printed about Mr. Miura. It's crazy that someone would try to discredit Scratch and Miura but stand up for bridgestone/tourstage. Now that makes me think that he sells more of the ladder.

 

He does not sell Scratch or Miura but Bridgestone/TourStage is one of his main brands.

[Richie3Jack 2]

figures.

 

 

 

 

3JACK

[TWshoot67 37]

He does not sell Scratch or Miura but Bridgestone/TourStage is one of his main brands.

 

Wow now that's interesting..... the products he sells are the only ones that he has something good to say about in his article. Hmm

[TWshoot67 37]

OK boys I just received an email from Bill Holowaty from Miura Golf. I'm waiting to get permission from Bill as to posting his response to the article mention from OP. I invited Bill to post here as well as I gave him the link to this forum as well as this Topic! As soon as I hear something back I will update. to me this was very important, people shouldn't be able to post false statements and like I stated earlier I think this guy has dug his own grave on this one.

 

Tim

[Moecat 15]

OK boys I just received an email from Bill Holowaty from Miura Golf. I'm waiting to get permission from Bill as to posting his response to the article mention from OP. I invited Bill to post here as well as I gave him the link to this forum as well as this Topic! As soon as I hear something back I will update. to me this was very important, people shouldn't be able to post false statements and like I stated earlier I think this guy has dug his own grave on this one.

 

Tim

Tim, that'll be very interesting to read. Thanks for doing this follow-up!

[TWshoot67 37]

Tim, that'll be very interesting to read. Thanks for doing this follow-up!

 

No problem Moe. I'm just glad I caught this article/blog and was able to post what I felt was a very interesting piece. Now we have this forum where we're lucky enough to have people in the industry that can answer these questions almost instantly with what I feel is accurate information. basically what this site was made for to get accurate info, and to bring together people who just love golf! To get back to topic as soon as I get the permission from Bill to post the emails I will do that. I just don't want to do the wrong thing. I'm sure Bill will allow it as he said to me that he'd be glad to post on the forum. I have some other ideas as to getting the word out to everyone and I'm going to talk to the boss about that. stay tuned....LOL

[GolfSpy Dave 1,562]

Outstanding extra effort. This may be my favorite thread. Maybe second favorite after beer.

[TWshoot67 37]

Outstanding extra effort. This may be my favorite thread. Maybe second favorite after beer.

Thanks I appreciate the response.I just figured this was very very important subject matter. I needed to get to the bottom of this... you know? Too many years of thinking I know a subject where now I don't want to think I know I want to know! and yes Beer is always a great Topic, because like golf courses, there are some many great ones.

 

Tim

[SPY ZINGER 411]

I don't care what Scratch wedges are made of, they feel great and I love the grinds. Performance is the only thing that matters. Not articles about metal.

[GolfSpy Dave 1,562]

I don't care what Scratch wedges are made of, they feel great and I love the grinds. Performance is the only thing that matters. Not articles about metal.

Good point, but it is not really about metal, it is about misrepresentation and potential libel. I don't think that the outstanding playability of the Scratch wedge was ever in question.

[mudfish 55]

interesting article... as a new golfer, I literally know nothing about how golf clubs are made... since I joined this forum, I've done a lot of reading and learning... cool stuff...

[jamo 16]

Good point, but it is not really about metal, it is about misrepresentation and potential libel. I don't think that the outstanding playability of the Scratch wedge was ever in question.

 

Exactly. If I bought one and found out that it was not everything I expected, I would have wanted a lower price and possibly not bought it in the first place. It's all about being an informed buyer.

[SPY ZINGER 411]

Exactly. If I bought one and found out that it was not everything I expected, I would have wanted a lower price and possibly not bought it in the first place. It's all about being an informed buyer.

Fair enough. Especially, if I get a rebate on my wedges!

[TWshoot67 37]

I don't care what Scratch wedges are made of, they feel great and I love the grinds. Performance is the only thing that matters. Not articles about metal.

thats your right.

 

Good point, but it is not really about metal, it is about misrepresentation and potential libel. I don't think that the outstanding playability of the Scratch wedge was ever in question.

agree its about principle!

 

interesting article... as a new golfer, I literally know nothing about how golf clubs are made... since I joined this forum, I've done a lot of reading and learning... cool stuff...

excellent, I thought it was interesting as well, thats why I posted it for all to read.

 

Exactly. If I bought one and found out that it was not everything I expected, I would have wanted a lower price and possibly not bought it in the first place. It's all about being an informed buyer.

yes i just want to be properly informed.

 

Fair enough. Especially, if I get a rebate on my wedges!

well if companies are misrepresenting, maybe their should be compensation. but from what I've seen from the two companies named in this article/blog it's appearing to me that they might be the ones compensated. JMO

 

Spy Zinger,

For me it had really noting to do at all about materials being used, it had to do with INTEGRITY. It had to do with the truth. It had to do with what in this particular case what one person Chris from Tour spec Golf saying that everything you thought you knew about Miura and Scratch were false and that these two particular companies where misleading the public! Also it had to do with how this world today (INTERNET AGE) has become so irresponsible, anyone and everyone that has a computer has a medium to print the truth or lies. Well in my opinion those people should be held accountable whether it be a person sitting in their home or it be a corporation sitting in their office. I just wanted to get to the bottom of this as it took me back when I first read the article/blog. I just felt like this was newsworthy and I guess we'll see down the road if when you print something you should have to print the truth. these are my opinions if it doesn't bother you then you have every right to disagree with me. I just wanted everyone to read what I found as disturbing.

 

Tim

[TWshoot67 37]

Well here's the emails that were exchanged between Bill and I.

 

 

Hello Bill, I'm just a passionate golfer who has played and still owns many Miura sets of irons. I came across this article by Tour spec Golf and basically he calls out MR. MIURA saying that he doesn't even forge irons and that he's just a grinder. that the irons are done by others and so on. Here you can read the rest. I've already sent a copy to Ari @ Scratch Golf and he's already talked with me and others at our forum http://forum.mygolfspy.com/.

 

here's the link to the article/blog:http://www.golftoimpress.com/2010/03/how-much-do-you-think-you-know-about-japanese-golf-club-manufacturing-part-1/

 

Tell me what you think if you have the time, Thanks. Tim

 

 

 

Hi Tim

 

Thank you very much for bring this to my attention. We have forwarded the blog by Tourspecgolfer to our lawyers and will await their advise on how to proceed.

 

Miura Golf has always prided itself on letting our irons do our talking. In fact, it is loyal Miura owners, like yourself, who come to the defense of the untruths that are occasionally spoken. In this case, I am truly amazed that Tourspecgolfer is given the forum to launch this attack on both Miura Golf and Scratch Golf, not to mention the personal assault he delivers on Mr. Miura.

 

Every year we invite our dealers and customers to come and visit the Miura factory. Many have made the trip to Himeji to see how the Miura manufacturing process takes place, from start to finish. Recent visitors include prominent media members as well as top executives of other industry equipment companies. This past October included distributors from Europe, as well as end users from North America. I am sure they would all be disappointed to hear such unsubstantiated allegations being levied against Mr. Miura.

 

I have always been available to answer customer questions as evidenced that our 800 number rings at my desk. It is probably not surprising to learn that Tourspecgolfer has never contacted Miura Golf or the Miura Factory.

 

I would welcome the opportunity to answer any and all questions at your forum at any time.

 

In the interim, we will continue to manufacture the best forged irons in the industry and deliver them to them to discriminating golfers like yourself.

 

Thank you again for bringing this to our attention, and I will make sure to keep you informed of how we deal with Tour Spec.

 

Best Regards,

 

Bill Holowaty

Miura Golf Inc

bill@miuragolf.com

604.708.4653

 

 

 

I personally feel that Ari and Bill have nothing to hide and it looks like their going to do what they have to according to the advice of their lawyers.Bill said he will keep me updated.

 

Tim

[GolfSpy_X 895]

Hmmm...how can I put this nicely even though I really shouldn't even care. I guess the best way to say it is to ignore what you see and here from Tourspec and their owner. That would be my advice. He is only doing this stunt for one reason.

 

thats your right.

 

 

agree its about principle!

 

 

excellent, I thought it was interesting as well, thats why I posted it for all to read.

 

 

yes i just want to be properly informed.

 

 

well if companies are misrepresenting, maybe their should be compensation. but from what I've seen from the two companies named in this article/blog it's appearing to me that they might be the ones compensated. JMO

 

Spy Zinger,

For me it had really noting to do at all about materials being used, it had to do with INTEGRITY. It had to do with the truth. It had to do with what in this particular case what one person Chris from Tour spec Golf saying that everything you thought you knew about Miura and Scratch were false and that these two particular companies where misleading the public! Also it had to do with how this world today (INTERNET AGE) has become so irresponsible, anyone and everyone that has a computer has a medium to print the truth or lies. Well in my opinion those people should be held accountable whether it be a person sitting in their home or it be a corporation sitting in their office. I just wanted to get to the bottom of this as it took me back when I first read the article/blog. I just felt like this was newsworthy and I guess we'll see down the road if when you print something you should have to print the truth. these are my opinions if it doesn't bother you then you have every right to disagree with me. I just wanted everyone to read what I found as disturbing.

 

Tim

[TWshoot67 37]

Here's another follow up to the original email exchange.

 

From: timupndown@comcast.net [mailto:timupndown@comcast.net]

Sent: Fri 3/5/2010 9:31 PM

To: Bill Holowaty

Subject: Re: Just a concerned golf Fan! you might want to read this!!!

 

Hello Bill,

 

Thanks for the quick response. Would you have any problem with me posting this on MY Golf SPY Forum? I would love to add this to the Topic I started at my golf spy forum about what this guy wrote for the world to see. We just launched http://forum.mygolfspy.com/ on 3-1-10. I'm one of the Moderators at the site. I noticed this blog/article and as soon as I read this I was like what kind of fraud is going on in the golf industry. I said I wish I could contact Mr. Miura and see what he has to say about this. Well in the mean time I sent an email to Ari Techner (scratch golf) since I just happend to talk to him recently. Ari is the man who gave me your email and said to pass this along as he knew you would be quite upset, as it's completely false as Ari himself said he toured your forging plant. So before I post your response to the article I wanted to ask your permission. If you do allow this to be posted, I will post both my email to you and the response so nothing will be taken out of context. If you wish to keep this private I understand that as well. Let me know what you think. Heck you can even post at our site. Here's the link to the article that I made everyone aware of at MGS.

http://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/376-how-much-do-you-know-about-japanese-forging/

 

Thanks again, Tim

 

 

Thanks Tim

 

Please feel free to post. I do appreciate your efforts and your consideration for making sure my comments are not taken out of context.

 

If you like, we could approach one of the journalists who has visited the factory to respond as well.

 

Thank you again for your dilegence.

 

 

Bill

 

Bill Holowaty

Miura Golf Inc

bill@miuragolf.com

604.708.4653

[SPY ZINGER 411]

TWshoot67:

 

Without a doubt! This posting is at the very essence of what a golf forum should do. Provide people who make up a very small percentage of the golf population with unbiased and unrestricted details about the equipment we buy/use. The topic was brought up by TSG and this thread is really looking into the details of the matter in a decent and professional manner. It's actually refreshing to see.

 

I don't want to be misled in the products I buy anymore than the next guy. However, my point was, I've been really happy with the performance with my Scratch products. I would not doubt their use of 1018 forging because my ONLY complaint with the Scratch heads is that they are TOO soft. Their metal just seems to cut so much easier from the sand.

 

It will be interesting to see how this pans out.

[Ari Techner 1]

Here is the spec sheet that was sent to me by Mr. Ishihara (who is still, still alive btw) tonight that details the material and specs of our raw clubs. This order was for U groove mid weight (we also get heavier and sometimes lighter raw heads in) raw wedge heads to be ground by Don White or Jeff McCoy in our Tour Custom Department.

IshiScratchRawWedgeSpecs.pdf

[SPY ZINGER 411]

People always threaten law suits in forums. But if Scratch and Miura are right in this arena, I think this is the first legitimate one I have seen so far. Scratch built it's business in the forums and it remains a major part (I assume) of their following.