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Scratch Golf Controversy


TWshoot67
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.......and for us consumers "caveat emptor" should be a never-ending mantra.

 

 

And there needs to be an internet version of that quote: "internet reader beware".

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So....what's the consensus? This has been an interesting thread.

Nothing yet on an official level. If you read the comments here. it seems clear that many are on the side of scratch. However if you read the comments at TSG, they are very strongly along the "go get 'em" line of thought.

May need an arbitrator...

Volvo Intorqueo

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I've been pre-occupied at work and I'm coming to this thread late, but here is my take.

 

Based on the raw data, I don't know who to believe. Both companies submitted samples to supposedly independent labs to be tested and got results that backed up their claims. There is an old saying that you can always make data say whatever you want and perhaps that applies here (at least in one instance). Honestly, the only way to truly conduct an independent test would be to randomly sample wedges that are available for sale or are in the hands of end consumers "in the wild" and perform the tests at a facility that does not have a relationship with either company. I'm sure if this gets into the hands of the lawyers then that is exactly what will occur and somebody will have their bluff called.

 

Until then, I will draw my conclusions based on the reputation of the companies and individuals involved. I don't know Ari personally, but I'm close enough to the golf industry as a blogger and I've logged enough hours on message boards like this one to know that Ari is a quality individual who goes out of his way to meet the needs of his customers. He spends a significant amount of time on forums like MGS answering questions and helping customers resolve issues. I don't know of any other CEO with a company of similar scale to Scratch in this industry that does that. To me, that speaks volumes in a situation like this one.

 

I also agree with some of the previous comments regarding the deleted post on the TSG forum. In my opinion, that is a red flag and speaks directly to the integrity of TourSpec. Why would they do that unless they had something to hide and didn't want to be challenged in that way?

 

So, I will side with Scratch and Miura on this one. And TSG has lost another potential customer. I guess I will need to find some other (more reputable) way to get my hands on those Rapture J-spec irons.

Callaway FT-9 Driver 10.5* Grafalloy Prolaunch Axis Blue

Callaway FT-9 Driver 9.0* Grafalloy Prolaunch Platinum

Cobra Baffler Rail F Fairway 15.5* Fujikura Motore

Wilson FYbrid 19* UST Proforce AXIV Core

Cobra Baffler Rail H Hybrid 22* Fujikura Motore

Ping I15 Irons 5-UW AWT

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Ping Redwood ZB Putter, WRX Starshot, 35"

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I have allways found these guy's to be good and they will match any price on TSG

 

http://www.progolfjapan.com

 

but if you are looking for the best japanese Forged club's look no further than Scratch Golf

 

great deal's on the wedges at the moment, custom stamping, Custom finish, Custom ferrule, built to your spec's

 

the right grind's to get the best out of your wedge play, drop Ari an email and you won't regret it.

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Thanks for all the info guys -- and your late take, A2G. Been interesting, for sure. As someone that's from TN originally, I've been keeping my eye on Scratch and hope they do well.

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I have allways found these guy's to be good and they will match any price on TSG

 

http://www.progolfjapan.com

 

but if you are looking for the best japanese Forged club's look no further than Scratch Golf

 

great deal's on the wedges at the moment, custom stamping, Custom finish, Custom ferrule, built to your spec's

 

the right grind's to get the best out of your wedge play, drop Ari an email and you won't regret it.

 

 

You can also use this company as well to avoid dealing with TSG:

 

GDO GOLF SHOP

 

Thanks guys! I will check them out. Good to know I have more options available. Rapture J's are not easy to find!

Callaway FT-9 Driver 10.5* Grafalloy Prolaunch Axis Blue

Callaway FT-9 Driver 9.0* Grafalloy Prolaunch Platinum

Cobra Baffler Rail F Fairway 15.5* Fujikura Motore

Wilson FYbrid 19* UST Proforce AXIV Core

Cobra Baffler Rail H Hybrid 22* Fujikura Motore

Ping I15 Irons 5-UW AWT

Ping Tour-W 56*,60* DG Spinner

Ping Redwood ZB Putter, WRX Starshot, 35"

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That website has a lot of good clubs, R9 forged, Burner TP. Good find!

Are you going by pictures or did I miss the translation link?

Maybe these links could be shared in other boards too. I only thought TSG was the way to get gear from japan...

Volvo Intorqueo

All the cool kids follow me on twitter: @GolfspyDave

If you are not a cool kid, following me on twitter will make you cool...

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Are you going by pictures or did I miss the translation link?

Maybe these links could be shared in other boards too. I only thought TSG was the way to get gear from japan...

 

A little thing popped up on my browser asking me if I wanted to translate it, so I clicked yes. FWIW I have Google Chrome.

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A little thing popped up on my browser asking me if I wanted to translate it, so I clicked yes. FWIW I have Google Chrome.

Thanks Jamo, Safari was not so helpful :(

Volvo Intorqueo

All the cool kids follow me on twitter: @GolfspyDave

If you are not a cool kid, following me on twitter will make you cool...

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You can use any browser and type the URL into Google and beside the result for that page it will ask you if you want to translate it as well.

#TruthDigest
 

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You can use any browser and type the URL into Google and beside the result for that page it will ask you if you want to translate it as well.

Thanks MGS. There is some amazing stuff there. Smily face driver headcover is still $78 though. :(

 

Volvo Intorqueo

All the cool kids follow me on twitter: @GolfspyDave

If you are not a cool kid, following me on twitter will make you cool...

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Glad you like the link. The guy behind TSG was simply a guy selling Japanese clubs on EBAY and found that he could make profit from it and started TSG. But their are plenty of shops in Japan that will ship to the US just like most online shops in the US that will ship outside the country.

 

Thanks MGS. There is some amazing stuff there. Smily face driver headcover is still $78 though. :(

 

#TruthDigest
 

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I have a sour taste in my mouth after all of this. I hear words like 'almost the same as' or a 'blend of' and then, to make matters worse;

 

"As I mentioned above it is standard practice in the golf industry to use Asian steel and refer to it in marketing and elsewhere by an American steel name."

 

 

Just because everyone else does it, doesn't make it aright! A brand can be lost in an instant. If I pay for something, I don't to find out its almost what I paid for, or its a blend of things, and then to find out that I should actually be happy because its the same trick as everyone uses. I use the word trick advisably, buts its how I feel after reading this thread.

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Just because everyone else does it, doesn't make it aright! A brand can be lost in an instant. If I pay for something, I don't to find out its almost what I paid for, or its a blend of things, and then to find out that I should actually be happy because its the same trick as everyone uses. I use the word trick advisably, buts its how I feel after reading this thread.

 

But if the club still works for you does it really matter? This has never happened to me, so I'm just a little curious.

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I have seen Chris/TSG online ever since he was QualityDayDream on BSG selling Tourstage and JDM lower than what Bighitter was selling it for.It was that that got him kicked off BSG and him starting TSG, his own place to sell his JDM wares.

 

I have bought a few small items from him and they have always been good quality. Like I mentioned in the Japan equipment post. You will find them a lot cheaper when you walk in a store. TSG prices are all MSRP and maybe a bit more.

 

Over the years I learned a few things about QDD/TSG from people that I talked to that were also in the industry or just in and around golf in Asia. Not all of them are good. I am not here to bring up QDD/TSG's past especially since it would be "gossip".

 

I will post what I posted over at TSG when the whole "expose" started.

 

 

---------------------

 

 

First, Why the use of "we". You and...?

 

Secondly, if you did think that Scratch did not know they using open molds (maybe they were told by Ishihara-Shoten they were using originals?) and that they didn't know what was going on wouldn't it have been more prudent to have contacted Scratch first since you did have a previous connection. Maybe Scratch thought all Ishihara's were the same. It seems that they are dealing with the son? More than a few would have assumed that the son is part of the operation, the typical Japanese system of keeping everything in the family.

 

IIRC you had a similar experience where you felt you were being "fooled" by GD-USA a while back during the GT vs DW wars. It would have been ideal for someone to have reached out to you then, why not "give back" to the industry which has been kind to you and reach out to someone who may be undergoing the same experience.

 

By doing an "expose" without talking to Scratch (and Miura) first I see how people can take it to mean there is an ulterior motive when there maybe none.

 

For me the Miura issue (not doing their own forgings) is bigger than the Scratch 1018 issue because carbon contents can overlap even using correct tolerances.

 

 

-----------

 

Let me add that if Ari did intentionally deceive or is trying to cover something up after the fact then he deserves everything coming to him. If there is something wrong and he did not know, then he needs to do a better job on checking up on things.

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I have seen Chris/TSG online ever since he was QualityDayDream on BSG selling Tourstage and JDM lower than what Bighitter was selling it for.It was that that got him kicked off BSG and him starting TSG, his own place to sell his JDM wares.

 

I have bought a few small items from him and they have always been good quality. Like I mentioned in the Japan equipment post. You will find them a lot cheaper when you walk in a store. TSG prices are all MSRP and maybe a bit more.

 

Over the years I learned a few things about QDD/TSG from people that I talked to that were also in the industry or just in and around golf in Asia. Not all of them are good. I am not here to bring up QDD/TSG's past especially since it would be "gossip".

 

I will post what I posted over at TSG when the whole "expose" started.

 

 

---------------------

 

 

First, Why the use of "we". You and...?

 

Secondly, if you did think that Scratch did not know they using open molds (maybe they were told by Ishihara-Shoten they were using originals?) and that they didn't know what was going on wouldn't it have been more prudent to have contacted Scratch first since you did have a previous connection. Maybe Scratch thought all Ishihara's were the same. It seems that they are dealing with the son? More than a few would have assumed that the son is part of the operation, the typical Japanese system of keeping everything in the family.

 

IIRC you had a similar experience where you felt you were being "fooled" by GD-USA a while back during the GT vs DW wars. It would have been ideal for someone to have reached out to you then, why not "give back" to the industry which has been kind to you and reach out to someone who may be undergoing the same experience.

 

By doing an "expose" without talking to Scratch (and Miura) first I see how people can take it to mean there is an ulterior motive when there maybe none.

 

For me the Miura issue (not doing their own forgings) is bigger than the Scratch 1018 issue because carbon contents can overlap even using correct tolerances.

 

 

-----------

 

Let me add that if Ari did intentionally deceive or is trying to cover something up after the fact then he deserves everything coming to him. If there is something wrong and he did not know, then he needs to do a better job on checking up on things.

 

What was the reaction on the TSG board when you posted this? Did Chris respond?

Callaway FT-9 Driver 10.5* Grafalloy Prolaunch Axis Blue

Callaway FT-9 Driver 9.0* Grafalloy Prolaunch Platinum

Cobra Baffler Rail F Fairway 15.5* Fujikura Motore

Wilson FYbrid 19* UST Proforce AXIV Core

Cobra Baffler Rail H Hybrid 22* Fujikura Motore

Ping I15 Irons 5-UW AWT

Ping Tour-W 56*,60* DG Spinner

Ping Redwood ZB Putter, WRX Starshot, 35"

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Yes. There was a civil exchange. He addressed it without really addressing it? It is still there if you want to take a look.

 

I will add in terms of information about JDM (Scratch not being JDM in my book), 90% of what Chris says is true. He has Gocchin to thank for that. The quality of equipment information and presentation has exploded ever since he got him on board 3(?) years ago. Tario(?)/Gocchin is a wealth of information and translation. I get a few and I can say Japanese golf magazines test everything. The magazines have information that sometimes is overload and useless to a certain point.

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