Gapping?!?!?

[jaybeemaestro]

So, I am thinking of changing my set a bit. This is what I have currently and I'll put lofts beside for ref. as my iron set is more "classically" lofted;

DRIVER : Callaway Epic Flash SZ 9deg +2/-1 or Mizuno ST180 10.5deg +/- 2 deg

3 WOOD: Callaway Rogue 15deg

3 hybrid : Ping G30

Irons 4 - PW : Mizuno MP54 4 is 24deg and PW 46deg

GW: Callaway MD3 Milled 52 deg S grind

SW: Cleveland RTX4 56deg 8deg bounce

LW: Cleveland RTX3 60deg 9deg bounce

Putter: Odyssey stroke lab 7s

I just bought a 2nd hand Mizuno MP H4 3iron (21deg) with a view to adding that and swapping the 52/56/60 set up for a 54/58 set-up. The fear is I'm solving the gap between 3hybrid (19deg) and 4 iron (24deg) only to create a new one between PW (46deg) and SW (54deg). The other option is the swap of 3iron in for 3Hybrid. 

Please share your experience and let me know.

Edited April 18, 2020 by jaybeemaestro

[cnosil]

Loft will give you an indicator of gapping but until you actually hit the clubs you won't know the real distances.   Club length also plays a part in distance.    

When you play,  what distances cause you problems?   Are they typically on the long or short end of the bag?  

 

 

[5footslider107]

10 hours ago, cnosil said:

Loft will give you an indicator of gapping but until you actually hit the clubs you won't know the real distances.   Club length also plays a part in distance.    

When you play,  what distances cause you problems?   Are they typically on the long or short end of the bag?  

 

 

I also just read a MGS review of hybrids and they brought up a great point. Just because you have different degrees on your clubs, doesn't necessarily mean the distance will be different. Spin, trajectory, club length and head design will influence the distance. Either hit em or take em to a launch monitor. 

[GolfSpy AFG]

On ‎4‎/‎18‎/‎2020 at 7:19 AM, jaybeemaestro said:

The fear is I'm solving the gap between 3hybrid (19deg) and 4 iron (24deg) only to create a new one between PW (46deg) and SW (54deg). The other option is the swap of 3iron in for 3Hybrid. 

Please share your experience and let me know.

Whatever you do it seems to me you want the gap in your long clubs not in your "scoring club" wedges. 

Have you considered bending the 4i a degree strong?

[jddaigneault]

Agree with other posters, it isn’t about the degrees but how far you hit each club. The goal is consistent distance gaps. 

[Moose4282]

How far do you hit the ball OP? If you are extremely long then the setup you presented would make sense,  then maybe go with a 52/58 wedge setup. Otherwise thats too crowded at the top of the bag and id advise to keep the three wedges.

[jaybeemaestro]

On 4/18/2020 at 3:28 PM, cnosil said:

Loft will give you an indicator of gapping but until you actually hit the clubs you won't know the real distances.   Club length also plays a part in distance.    

When you play,  what distances cause you problems?   Are they typically on the long or short end of the bag?  

 

 

So the issue is a par 3 16th over water which plays long as it will be into a prevailing wind (generally from back left to front right). It can play as long as a 3-wood from the back tees in gail and as short as 8iron with the opposite wind. Generally the 4 iron is a stretch but 3 hybrid is too much. There's also very few drives where it's tight and I'll reach for the hybrid. Generally my hybrid is a 2nd on a par 5, or long par 4 shot. I feel the 3iron would be a club I would use on the par 3 and also the only other driver positioning hole. I am comfortable taking something off an iron (65%-90% shots) but not with the hybrid or 3wood.

With no wind, the 4iron goes 180-185. The hybrid 200-210. The other option is ditch the 3 wood for a 4 wood as driver off the deck can be a go to shot for a 2nd shot on a par5. 

Appreciate the input and apologies for not responding sooner. I'm new to the forum and couldn't find my post.

[cnosil]

2 minutes ago, jaybeemaestro said:

So the issue is a par 3 16th over water which plays long as it will be into a prevailing wind (generally from back left to front right). It can play as long as a 3-wood from the back tees in gail and as short as 8iron with the opposite wind. Generally the 4 iron is a stretch but 3 hybrid is too much. There's also very few drives where it's tight and I'll reach for the hybrid. Generally my hybrid is a 2nd on a par 5, or long par 4 shot. I feel the 3iron would be a club I would use on the par 3 and also the only other driver positioning hole. I am comfortable taking something off an iron (65%-90% shots) but not with the hybrid or 3wood.

With no wind, the 4iron goes 180-185. The hybrid 200-210. The other option is ditch the 3 wood for a 4 wood as driver off the deck can be a go to shot for a 2nd shot on a par5. 

Appreciate the input and apologies for not responding sooner. I'm new to the forum and couldn't find my post.

If that is your regular course that you play all the time,  that helps make a decision.  You can practice taking something off the hybrids or jumping on an iron.  Build your bag for the courses your play regularly and to me that sounds like finding a club that fits that gap. 

[jaybeemaestro]

16 hours ago, jddaigneault said:

Agree with other posters, it isn’t about the degrees but how far you hit each club. The goal is consistent distance gaps. 

I just included the lofts for informational purposes but giving the distances would have been smarter. 

My irons (bought 2nd hand, are 1/2 inch short but recently got measured and I should be 1/2 long). I recently had the irons lengthened to 1/2 long. Secondly, the 3 iron bought is probably 1 inch short so will need 1.5 inches added before I can compare if I put it in the bag.

Finally, lockdown is still in place until 5th May (probable extension to 19th May) so it just adds to the frustration when all the responses were great.

Ultimately, a sacrifice will need to be made and I think some range work with the hybrid and 3iron (when lengthened) will show distance and flight differentials. The 3iron is useful for shots, out from under/behind trees. I am able to hit a low 30 yard draw, a low 50 yard slice and a high 30 yard slice with a 3 iron. In some ways it's more of a "rescue" club for me than the hybrid. 

[jddaigneault]

4 hours ago, jaybeemaestro said:

I just included the lofts for informational purposes but giving the distances would have been smarter. 

My irons (bought 2nd hand, are 1/2 inch short but recently got measured and I should be 1/2 long). I recently had the irons lengthened to 1/2 long. Secondly, the 3 iron bought is probably 1 inch short so will need 1.5 inches added before I can compare if I put it in the bag.

Finally, lockdown is still in place until 5th May (probable extension to 19th May) so it just adds to the frustration when all the responses were great.

Ultimately, a sacrifice will need to be made and I think some range work with the hybrid and 3iron (when lengthened) will show distance and flight differentials. The 3iron is useful for shots, out from under/behind trees. I am able to hit a low 30 yard draw, a low 50 yard slice and a high 30 yard slice with a 3 iron. In some ways it's more of a "rescue" club for me than the hybrid. 

That’s definitely going to result in some changes to distance! 

[ZenGolfer]

Your set looks pretty good.  The only concern I might have is with your 3H and how it relates to your 4-iron and 3-wood.  It seems to me like you might have a bit of a gap between your 3w and your 3H and if your irons are a 1/2" short and lean towards being weaker lofts, you may have a bit of a gap between your 3H and your 4-iron, depending upon what the loft of the 3H is.

[THEZIPR23]

On 4/18/2020 at 5:19 AM, jaybeemaestro said:

So, I am thinking of changing my set a bit. This is what I have currently and I'll put lofts beside for ref. as my iron set is more "classically" lofted;

DRIVER : Callaway Epic Flash SZ 9deg +2/-1 or Mizuno ST180 10.5deg +/- 2 deg

3 WOOD: Callaway Rogue 15deg

3 hybrid : Ping G30

Irons 4 - PW : Mizuno MP54 4 is 24deg and PW 46deg

GW: Callaway MD3 Milled 52 deg S grind

SW: Cleveland RTX4 56deg 8deg bounce

LW: Cleveland RTX3 60deg 9deg bounce

Putter: Odyssey stroke lab 7s

I just bought a 2nd hand Mizuno MP H4 3iron (21deg) with a view to adding that and swapping the 52/56/60 set up for a 54/58 set-up. The fear is I'm solving the gap between 3hybrid (19deg) and 4 iron (24deg) only to create a new one between PW (46deg) and SW (54deg). The other option is the swap of 3iron in for 3Hybrid. 

Please share your experience and let me know.

Careful dropping the 4th wedge. My experience has been that having the 4th wedge solidifies my gaps from 135 all the way down to 20 yards.

Based on you handicap you get it around the course good, I understand that the 16th hole is a trouble spot but I bet you can hit hybrid on it all day, even if you're long your scores over time on that hole may not vary much.

Long story short, I would focus on 3w 3hy and 4 iron to see if you can find one that fits that distance and not create an issue on your scoring gaps. 

[jaybeemaestro]

1 hour ago, THEZIPR23 said:

Careful dropping the 4th wedge. My experience has been that having the 4th wedge solidifies my gaps from 135 all the way down to 20 yards.

Based on you handicap you get it around the course good, I understand that the 16th hole is a trouble spot but I bet you can hit hybrid on it all day, even if you're long your scores over time on that hole may not vary much.

Long story short, I would focus on 3w 3hy and 4 iron to see if you can find one that fits that distance and not create an issue on your scoring gaps. 

This is how I see it too, if pushed, I'd rather have the 4th wedge. The irons are lengthened to 1/2 long now. I just need the new mizuno mp H4 3 iron lengthened now. The ping G30 hybrid is nice and at 19 degrees I can get it out there well enough. While my distances might not be impressive I live in Ireland and play on a particularly windy course. Also, Ireland is generally wet and cold. Distance for me isn't the be all or end all, it's accuracy that helps my scores. 

I think I will float between the 3iron (when adjusted to 1/2 long) and the 3 hybrid. Ultimately my next set of irons will probably be stronger lofted so this will only be an issue for around a year. 

I think there may be an argument to swap a 3 wood for a 4 wood. I can hit driver off the deck (presumably fairway or light rough) for a 2nd shot on long par 5s and the 4 wood will close the gap the 3 hybrid.

I really appreciate the feedback. It's great to learn from others' experiences.

[Alex Ferrari]

On 4/18/2020 at 5:19 AM, jaybeemaestro said:

So, I am thinking of changing my set a bit. This is what I have currently and I'll put lofts beside for ref. as my iron set is more "classically" lofted;

DRIVER : Callaway Epic Flash SZ 9deg +2/-1 or Mizuno ST180 10.5deg +/- 2 deg

3 WOOD: Callaway Rogue 15deg

3 hybrid : Ping G30

Irons 4 - PW : Mizuno MP54 4 is 24deg and PW 46deg

GW: Callaway MD3 Milled 52 deg S grind

SW: Cleveland RTX4 56deg 8deg bounce

LW: Cleveland RTX3 60deg 9deg bounce

Putter: Odyssey stroke lab 7s

I just bought a 2nd hand Mizuno MP H4 3iron (21deg) with a view to adding that and swapping the 52/56/60 set up for a 54/58 set-up. The fear is I'm solving the gap between 3hybrid (19deg) and 4 iron (24deg) only to create a new one between PW (46deg) and SW (54deg). The other option is the swap of 3iron in for 3Hybrid. 

Please share your experience and let me know.

I think it would be helpful to know your true carry distances with all of these clubs. I was in a similar situation and opted for for a four wedge setup because my apex pro PW is 45*, so I went with a 50, 56, and 60. I may end up bending my PW to 47 to close the gap, because from 105 to 120 I feel a bit uncomfortable having to hit limited PW shots. That said, I'm curious how you use your long irons/hybrids and how far you fly them. For me, I went with 3 wood, 5 wood, 4 hybrid, and the gapping is really smooth.

[jaybeemaestro]

19 hours ago, Alex Ferrari said:

I think it would be helpful to know your true carry distances with all of these clubs. I was in a similar situation and opted for for a four wedge setup because my apex pro PW is 45*, so I went with a 50, 56, and 60. I may end up bending my PW to 47 to close the gap, because from 105 to 120 I feel a bit uncomfortable having to hit limited PW shots. That said, I'm curious how you use your long irons/hybrids and how far you fly them. For me, I went with 3 wood, 5 wood, 4 hybrid, and the gapping is really smooth.

2 fairway woods wouldn't be for me. I lack the confidence and accuracy with fairway woods. Also, your lowest iron must be a 5iron. I want a 3iron but settling with a 4iron at the moment as the shot for distance out from under the trees. 

I had stopped using my game golf live (around a year ago broken clip) and getting launch monitor data is a limited option for me. 

I am wondering what 4 wood options are out there, as much as I love my Callaway Rogue 3 wood.

[Alex Ferrari]

5 hours ago, jaybeemaestro said:

2 fairway woods wouldn't be for me. I lack the confidence and accuracy with fairway woods. Also, your lowest iron must be a 5iron. I want a 3iron but settling with a 4iron at the moment as the shot for distance out from under the trees. 

I had stopped using my game golf live (around a year ago broken clip) and getting launch monitor data is a limited option for me. 

I am wondering what 4 wood options are out there, as much as I love my Callaway Rogue 3 wood.

It seems like most 3 woods are adjustable enough that you would be able to just add loft to reach 4 wood territory. That’s at least what I did with my epic flash before getting a 5 wood. 
 

I know what you mean about long irons though. Occasionally I’m in a spot where I need to hit it low out of the trees, and since I only go as low as a 5 iron it can be tough, but that’s a trade-off I can live with.

[jaybeemaestro]

2 hours ago, Alex Ferrari said:

It seems like most 3 woods are adjustable enough that you would be able to just add loft to reach 4 wood territory. That’s at least what I did with my epic flash before getting a 5 wood. 
 

I know what you mean about long irons though. Occasionally I’m in a spot where I need to hit it low out of the trees, and since I only go as low as a 5 iron it can be tough, but that’s a trade-off I can live with.

Unlike your good self, I need the shot a little more than "occassionally". I think a straight up 4wood 17 degree would be sweet. I couldn't trust myself with the adjustability. 

[Guest Delete]

On 4/18/2020 at 5:19 AM, jaybeemaestro said:

So, I am thinking of changing my set a bit. This is what I have currently and I'll put lofts beside for ref. as my iron set is more "classically" lofted;

DRIVER : Callaway Epic Flash SZ 9deg +2/-1 or Mizuno ST180 10.5deg +/- 2 deg

3 WOOD: Callaway Rogue 15deg

3 hybrid : Ping G30

Irons 4 - PW : Mizuno MP54 4 is 24deg and PW 46deg

GW: Callaway MD3 Milled 52 deg S grind

SW: Cleveland RTX4 56deg 8deg bounce

LW: Cleveland RTX3 60deg 9deg bounce

Putter: Odyssey stroke lab 7s

I just bought a 2nd hand Mizuno MP H4 3iron (21deg) with a view to adding that and swapping the 52/56/60 set up for a 54/58 set-up. The fear is I'm solving the gap between 3hybrid (19deg) and 4 iron (24deg) only to create a new one between PW (46deg) and SW (54deg). The other option is the swap of 3iron in for 3Hybrid. 

Please share your experience and let me know.

In your situation, adding a 4 hybrid at 21/22 degrees would get you to the gap better. 

My bag goes 10* Driver, 19* 5W, 4H 22*, 24* 4iron... 50 gap, 54 sand, 60 lob

[jaybeemaestro]

1 hour ago, TimoTe said:

In your situation, adding a 4 hybrid at 21/22 degrees would get you to the gap better. 

My bag goes 10* Driver, 19* 5W, 4H 22*, 24* 4iron... 50 gap, 54 sand, 60 lob

Excellent suggestion. I do love my ping G30 hybrid though. The most confidence-inspiring hybrid I have owned. I think when I originally got on-board the "hybrid" train a lot of them had the offset which can lead to the nasty snap-hook. For me, there is only one hole where I sometimes hit hybrid and left is OOB. Hybrids have come on since then though. It's a real bummer that, with restrictions not lifted in Ireland yet, I can't re-size the 3 iron to plus 0.5 inch length and get to a range and test it out. I think Cobra do adjustable hybrids so I could change to between a 3 and 4 hybrid (around 20*). 

Thanks for taking the time to respond. 

[Guest Delete]

5 hours ago, jaybeemaestro said:

Excellent suggestion. I do love my ping G30 hybrid though. The most confidence-inspiring hybrid I have owned. I think when I originally got on-board the "hybrid" train a lot of them had the offset which can lead to the nasty snap-hook. For me, there is only one hole where I sometimes hit hybrid and left is OOB. Hybrids have come on since then though. It's a real bummer that, with restrictions not lifted in Ireland yet, I can't re-size the 3 iron to plus 0.5 inch length and get to a range and test it out. I think Cobra do adjustable hybrids so I could change to between a 3 and 4 hybrid (around 20*). 

Thanks for taking the time to respond. 

I had a problem with consistency and hybrids until I realized my hybrid shaft was too light. I go for 75-85 gram hybrid shafts now instead of 60 grams. Problem solved

[jaybeemaestro]

23 hours ago, TimoTe said:

I had a problem with consistency and hybrids until I realized my hybrid shaft was too light. I go for 75-85 gram hybrid shafts now instead of 60 grams. Problem solved

It's not so much control with a hybrid but versatility. I like hitting low punchy ones with a low iron, fades and draws. I struggle doing the same with a hybrid.

[Firebird]

I carry 3 wedges 46, 50, 54 degree, however as I am an old bugger when I first started to play we generally only had 2 wedges, a PW and SW. I therefore learnt to use my PW differently and still do today. It is a 46 degree Cleveland RTX3. A Full Swing can go 120m, 90M or  even 50M, all depends how far I open the face. When it comes to wedges, you will never have enough so you need to be able to alter them to suit the shot. 

BY carry 1 less wedge allows me to carry one more iron/hydrid, in my case a 3 - 21 degree. However I do also change what I carry in my bag depending on the course I am playing.

[CrazyGolfNut]

Wedge set up is a constant conversation among golfers.  As of today, my setup is 43-48-52-56.  The 43 & 48 are part of my iron set and I use that more like full irons rather than wedges.  At one time I also had a 60 but took it out for longer clubs at the other end of the bag.  There are several manufactures websites with fitting tools that suggest I go with a 54 & 58 deg setup. I do miss the 60 so the 54-58 may be my new setup.  Once I figure out the gaps, then I will spend time looking at grinds.  Still thinking about it.

[jaybeemaestro]

9 hours ago, crazygolfnut said:

Wedge set up is a constant conversation among golfers.  As of today, my setup is 43-48-52-56.  The 43 & 48 are part of my iron set and I use that more like full irons rather than wedges.  At one time I also had a 60 but took it out for longer clubs at the other end of the bag.  There are several manufactures websites with fitting tools that suggest I go with a 54 & 58 deg setup. I do miss the 60 so the 54-58 may be my new setup.  Once I figure out the gaps, then I will spend time looking at grinds.  Still thinking about it.

That's always that fear, reaching for a club when you really need it, and it's no longer in the bag. Arguably, the gapping problem that needs addressing most is wedges. I will not be hitting that high a percentage of greens with a 3hybrid, 4hybrid or 3iron. And where I miss, the next club I reach for will be a wedge. And, even if it was a consistent miss, it would leave me short-sided on some holes and not on others. So I'm reaching for 52, 56 or 60, depending on lie and pin position. It's nice to have those options.

[Guest Delete]

On 5/10/2020 at 1:32 PM, jaybeemaestro said:

That's always that fear, reaching for a club when you really need it, and it's no longer in the bag. Arguably, the gapping problem that needs addressing most is wedges. I will not be hitting that high a percentage of greens with a 3hybrid, 4hybrid or 3iron. And where I miss, the next club I reach for will be a wedge. And, even if it was a consistent miss, it would leave me short-sided on some holes and not on others. So I'm reaching for 52, 56 or 60, depending on lie and pin position. It's nice to have those options.

If pitching wedge goes 125

Driver 250

Then that leaves 7 or 8 or 9 clubs to fill out the 125 yards.

Say 25 yards is your first gap to a wood then that's 100 yds for 7 or 8 clubs = 12.5 or 14.3 gaps. Below shows my gaps at 12.5. 

D 250

5 Wood 225

Hybrid/Long irons: 4h-212.5, 4i-200,

5i-187.5, 6i-175, 7i-162.5,

8i-150, 9i-137.5, PW-125

50* Gap 112.5, 54* Sand 100, 60* Lob 87.5

Putter

I like having these gaps rather than 2 woods and either one less long iron or one less wedge. Gaps any bigger than 12.5 yards makes it harder to hit the small greens.

I agree with you about having the right club. That's why I don't carry my 72* wedge, chipper, or 3w most of the time.