Driver shaft length. What's being tried

[John W Sutch]

2 hours ago, chisag said:

 

... I wrote in every review I have written for drivers that the stock shaft is too long for most players. VP of Engineering at Cobra agreed and several years ago at the PGA Show he smiled when he saw me and the first words out of his mouth were "You are gonna be very happy Sam because we are introducing a Tour Length driver this year!" As an engineer he also liked a shorter stock shaft because his testing showed increased distance e and accuracy with centered contact as opposed to higher swing speed and missing the center. But was always over ruled by Sales. You can't have Callaway and TM testing against a stock Cobra that is 1-1.5" shorter while using a Robot that makes perfect contact and claiming their driver is 18 yds longer than Cobra's. I think it was a stroke of genius for Cobra to offer both. 

... And I have posted this before but I always remember DLIII saying when he absolutely needed a big drive on a par 5 or long load 4 he slowed down his swing just a little to make sure he had perfect contact. Center contact beats higher swing speed on the toe or heel every time. The trick of course is finding the perfect length for your swing. For most it will be 44-45". 

Nailed it as far as I'm concerned. Gaming a Cobra Speedzone with UST helium tour shaft R flex. Set to  8 and a half degree draw. 74 yrs old. 91 mph swing speed. Constant center face hits averaging 230 yds. Consistently hitting 8 - 10 fairways per round. Love this driver.

[GolfSpy_BNG]

3 hours ago, chisag said:

The trick of course is finding the perfect length for your swing

This is right on the money as usual Sam. I would go a bit further though and say finding the "Right length for your swing with each specific Driver". I have found over the years that my sweet spot for length is between 43.75 and 44.75. It varies depending on what driver head it is. Weight distribution (not just swing weight) in the head can effect things as well as balance point of the shaft. 

I really want to go to a driver fitting at some point, but part of the fun of a new driver for me is the process of finding the right setup.  Weight distribution (draw, fade, forward, or back), swing weight, and length are all part of the journey for me. Maybe I am just getting crazy as I age!

[Gman24]

On 4/19/2020 at 11:59 AM, jkpigott said:

I actually learned about the tour length by accident.

Was hitting F9 from a demo cart. Put in the 63g Hazardous yellow. Then after hitting so well, put it side by side with an M6. Seeing how much longer the M6 was, I thought maybe I had put a 3-wood shaft in the F9 driver head by mistake.

Spoke to the Cobra specialist in-store and he said "oh yeah, that's a Tour Length shaft". Since then found it in the catalog. Noticed this week it is also called out on their web site.

Seeing the discussion above, I have created some franken-sticks through chopping and adding back.  Have never been thrilled with any of them.  But getting one new with the right length and weight has been great.  Just wish more mfrs put shorter options in the demo carts for fitting at the major retailers accessible to the masses.  I would be very surprised if TXG, Club Champion or Tru Spec did not have these shorter shafts as an option, but maybe I'll ask.

 

I switched to 44.5" last spring and picked up distance and tighter dispersion.

[NRJyzr]

I've posted this in another thread recently, IIRC...

I've largely switched to playing my drivers no longer than 44", and primarily at 43.5", if not a bit shorter.  Over the years, I've found that once I get past 44.5", my tee game gets magnitudes worse.  Seeing how I already have directional issues, I try avoiding those longer clubs.

On top of that, a fitting session showed me my max clubhead speed is perhaps around 43.25", 43", or possibly even shorter.  I was 3mph faster at 43" than at 44.25" or 44.125", regardless of shaft weight.

I've taken too long thinking about that before starting to cut down several drivers to 43.5".  I really need to try 43", but I've hesitated.  Should just suck it up and give it a go; I've got several options for experimentation.

[Jchris05]

8 hours ago, NRJyzr said:

I've posted this in another thread recently, IIRC...

I've largely switched to playing my drivers no longer than 44", and primarily at 43.5", if not a bit shorter.  Over the years, I've found that once I get past 44.5", my tee game gets magnitudes worse.  Seeing how I already have directional issues, I try avoiding those longer clubs.

On top of that, a fitting session showed me my max clubhead speed is perhaps around 43.25", 43", or possibly even shorter.  I was 3mph faster at 43" than at 44.25" or 44.125", regardless of shaft weight.

I've taken too long thinking about that before starting to cut down several drivers to 43.5".  I really need to try 43", but I've hesitated.  Should just suck it up and give it a go; I've got several options for experimentation.

How do you manage the change in swing weight?

[NRJyzr]

15 hours ago, Jchris05 said:

How do you manage the change in swing weight?

I've done a couple different things.  The TM movable weight drivers are nice, I just swap in different weights for the standard; I have a 20g and 12g in my SuperDeep, for example.  Mostly, it's lead tape, though.  I experimented with cotton balls in my King LTD, but went away from that in favor of lead tape.  

[GolfSpy_BNG]

How do you manage the change in swing weight?

I actually dislike the look of lead tape. I prefer the ability to change weight with interchangeable ones but that doesn’t always work. I bought a hot melt gun and a couple cartridges for the times I can’t just purchase different weights.


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[NRJyzr]

I've cut down a couple drivers now to 43", going to bring them along tomorrow in place of my persimmons.  One is an R9 SuperDeep with a ProtoPype 80, the other is quite old school, a Precept 260LS, with a PF85 shaft.

Could be interesting.  

[The Sandman]

Played 46 for years, bought one of the new Hogan drivers and had it cut to 45...at my height of 5’7 with a flat swing it feels easier to square up. Haven’t lost any yardage.

[boat22]

I got fitted for a driver this year and had shaft cut to 44.5". It feel much shorter than my old driver (46"), but I have found that I have much more control and didn't lose any distance with a shaft that is fitted correctly. I would recommend a fitting and playing around with it.

[bens197]

I switched out my HZRDUS Yellow for an Evenflow Black and added 0.5” for a 45.5” driver. I haven’t played anything over 45” ever but I’m not concerned. There isn’t a single club in my bag I have more confidence in than my driver. My bad swing misses are left rather than right so I expect the incidence of those misses will be reduced. 

[edingc]

I chopped 1/2" off my HZRDUS Yellow this morning, bringing it down to about 45". Dropped swingweight from D4-D5-ish, to about D2.5. 

No real reason to try other than to experiment. Can't get much worse with the driver.

[jkpigott]

Great video today from the TXG boys on the shorter driver topic.  If you are heading down this path, be sure to get the head weight adjusted accordingly.

 

 

[chisag]

4 minutes ago, jkpigott said:

Great video today from the TXG boys on the shorter driver topic.  If you are heading down this path, be sure to get the head weight adjusted accordingly.

 

 

 

... Great video but I would add that Matt is an elite ball striker. Most Ams will have an even larger difference between shorter and longer shafts. Interesting Matt went to 43.5" while many can find the center much more often with 44 - 44.5" shafts. 

[GolfSpy BOS]

 
... Great video but I would add that Matt is an elite ball striker. Most Ams will have an even larger difference between shorter and longer shafts. Interesting Matt went to 43.5" while many can find the center much more often with 44 - 44.5" shafts. 

I thought that was interesting too. I don’t think I’ve seen a retail “Tour Length” offering of 43.5. But I only recall Cobra offering Tour Length at 44.5 (with cobra connect) so 44.25 with a standard grip.

Am I missing another company offering tour length stuff?


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[cnosil]

 
... Great video but I would add that Matt is an elite ball striker. Most Ams will have an even larger difference between shorter and longer shafts. Interesting Matt went to 43.5" while many can find the center much more often with 44 - 44.5" shafts. 

Haven’t watched the video, but the length makes me wonder if this is related to the persimmon driver video they did a couple of days ago. Goal was to hit over 300 yards; couldn’t do it with old balata ball but could with modern ball and some swing changes. Persimmon was old school 43.5 so cutting down a modern driver to compare seems like a logical next step.

[chisag]

... I think TXG just went to extremes to make a point. Rickie Fowler is the only Pro I know using a sub 44" driver at 43.5". I seem to recall one or two others although not sure they are still at that length, but 44.5" would be a much more accurate length for tour guys playing a shorter shaft. 

Edit: cnosil pointed out this may be do to a persimmon comparison. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, chisag said:

... I think TXG just went to extremes to make a point. Rickie Fowler is the only Pro I know using a sub 44" driver at 43.5". I seem to recall one or two others although not sure they are still at that length, but 44.5" would be a much more accurate length for tour guys playing a shorter shaft. 

Edit: cnosil pointed out this may be do to a persimmon comparison. 

Sergio plays 43.5

[cnosil]

4 hours ago, chisag said:

... I think TXG just went to extremes to make a point. Rickie Fowler is the only Pro I know using a sub 44" driver at 43.5". I seem to recall one or two others although not sure they are still at that length, but 44.5" would be a much more accurate length for tour guys playing a shorter shaft. 

Edit: cnosil pointed out this may be do to a persimmon comparison. 

just watched the video;  they typically fit to 45" so 43.5 for them is tour length.   Probably more to prove that shorter can be better and 45" to 44.5"  wouldn't have been very dramatic

[jkpigott]

20 hours ago, chisag said:

 

... Great video but I would add that Matt is an elite ball striker. Most Ams will have an even larger difference between shorter and longer shafts. Interesting Matt went to 43.5" while many can find the center much more often with 44 - 44.5" shafts. 

I had the exact same reaction. Players with less consistent center-face contact overall should see very noticeable improvements. Matty-boy is a machine.

[jkpigott]

19 hours ago, B.Boston said:

I thought that was interesting too. I don’t think I’ve seen a retail “Tour Length” offering of 43.5. But I only recall Cobra offering Tour Length at 44.5 (with cobra connect) so 44.25 with a standard grip.

Am I missing another company offering tour length stuff?


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I do some fitting work at a golf retailer.  We can order clubs longer and shorter than stock for most all mfrs. Cobra is the only one I recall seeing that has a specific SKU set up for a Tour Length (44.5") product.  They also call it out as such on the Cobra website. Wish more mfrs would add that length to the demo carts. Hard to show a player that option if they can't demo it.

[edingc]

On 5/23/2020 at 3:36 PM, edingc said:

I chopped 1/2" off my HZRDUS Yellow this morning, bringing it down to about 45". Dropped swingweight from D4-D5-ish, to about D2.5. 

No real reason to try other than to experiment. Can't get much worse with the driver.

I've played 54 holes with the shorter driver and, while I can't say it's solved all my driving problems, I feel like it's helped some. Definitely feels less like a telephone pole and easier to control.

[GolfSpy BOS]

18 minutes ago, edingc said:

I've played 54 holes with the shorter driver and, while I can't say it's solved all my driving problems, I feel like it's helped some. Definitely feels less like a telephone pole and easier to control.

Nice to see that you’re getting comfortable with it quickly.  It CAN look weird at first, especially if you have a larger profile driver.  But I really enjoyed playing my G30 and 44.5 and really don’t think I lost any distance because of it.  

Did you have to add any weight back or do you like the way it swings now?  I know we changed weights to add just 2 grams back on the Ping I had.

[edingc]

11 hours ago, B.Boston said:

Nice to see that you’re getting comfortable with it quickly.  It CAN look weird at first, especially if you have a larger profile driver.  But I really enjoyed playing my G30 and 44.5 and really don’t think I lost any distance because of it.  

Did you have to add any weight back or do you like the way it swings now?  I know we changed weights to add just 2 grams back on the Ping I had.

I did not add any weight. It dropped from D5-D6ish to D2 with the new Star Sidewinder grip I put on it. It currently is playing about 44.75", as the grip cap on the Star is apparently slightly shorter than the GP NDMC it replaced.

To be honest, I never loved the feel of the driver at stock swingweight as it always felt too heavy, especially once I added the HZRDUS Yellow. This just feels better to me, faster feeling as well.

[jkpigott]

12 hours ago, edingc said:

I did not add any weight. It dropped from D5-D6ish to D2 with the new Star Sidewinder grip I put on it. It currently is playing about 44.75", as the grip cap on the Star is apparently slightly shorter than the GP NDMC it replaced.

To be honest, I never loved the feel of the driver at stock swingweight as it always felt too heavy, especially once I added the HZRDUS Yellow. This just feels better to me, faster feeling as well.

Actually a little surprised the swingweight did not drop a little more.  Believe that Yellow shaft is counterbalanced so more weight than normal in the butt end. Will be interested to see how it goes for you and all that are trying this season.