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Driver shaft length. What's being tried


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On 4/25/2020 at 9:00 AM, B.Boston said:

that's awesome!  25 yards gained from finding the right combo.. I have to imagine with the VA Vylyn you've seen improvements over the stock shaft too as far as accuracy goes?  I feel like those old TM stock shafts were pretty whippy.

Not familiar with VA Vylyn shafts. Who is a good candidate for them? Thx.

:cobra-small: F9 9* Atmos Tour Spec Black 6s 45"

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... I wrote in every review I have written for drivers that the stock shaft is too long for most players. VP of Engineering at Cobra agreed and several years ago at the PGA Show he smiled when he saw

@jkpigott oh man. I can absolutely speak on this topic, being that just a few weeks ago I got a new driver with a shorter shaft. Let me tell you, it made all the difference in the world. Recently

I chopped 1/2" off my HZRDUS Yellow this morning, bringing it down to about 45". Dropped swingweight from D4-D5-ish, to about D2.5.  No real reason to try other than to experiment. Can't get much

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4 minutes ago, jkpigott said:

Not familiar with VA Vylyn shafts. Who is a good candidate for them? Thx.

TXG can explain it better than me.  Here's a video they did that included it:

 

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I’ve been mulling over cutting my honma 747 driver down. It’s currently 45.75” long and I’m all over the place with it. I also have the shorter big Bertha fusion driver at 44”. There is a night and day difference in my dispersion. 
the honma when hit well is 15-20 yards further than the fusion but the missing of fairways just isnt worth using it. So I would love to cut the honma down but worried of messing the swing weight up

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I’ve Played 46.5 all the way down to a 43 Two things to consider. Strike being 1 and your lie angle will change significantly. I say get some foot spray and see if you’re hitting the middle and what the flight looks like. You may get a few mph club head speed out of a longer shaft but if you aren’t hitting it in the middle you’re losing it in ball speed.44.+ seems to be my happy place for both strike and having something that doesn't sit too upright.

Driver       FE55134C-CD73-48E1-AFB5-CC8200F2CB0A.jpeg.0933e8544d5eb3422e959577493f0fef.jpeg Epic sub zero 10.5 Fuji Speer 661 TS xstiff

3 wood   1F17BF28-C0F1-4E8F-8755-ECC09DF97C8C.jpeg.c53f142f688fa9ba960db8bafc55e1e6.jpegR11s 14* Aldila 80g RIP phenom stiff

Hybrid    1F17BF28-C0F1-4E8F-8755-ECC09DF97C8C.jpeg.c53f142f688fa9ba960db8bafc55e1e6.jpeg 2016 M1 19* Fuji pro80 stiff

Irons       D859CF9F-92A7-48A0-A0E6-FD20DF5F7895.jpeg.918a5008145383da3021eff2b9a73b64.jpeg  pro black CB2 3-pw kbs tour 90 stiff

Wedges 7BC1FAAE-D235-40D3-B8B1-129FCE75002D.jpeg.bd104b40d1d6dd996c1a8917eb397626.jpegOil can 50.08  nickel 54.08 58.04

Putter       87484C23-73C2-4A8F-8F7F-536D909C9D00.jpeg.149dc29f28d951d24c3f7e29f69bd596.jpeg  Er.7  37”

Tracking.  B76CF1E2-77CA-421F-96BE-8E04E4B2B861.jpeg.998ffe83005e42b761646e30b0120512.jpeg Arccos 360 

Ball            2D586292-4648-465E-A9F6-8648DB25AEB1.jpeg  Prov1

 

 

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I am only 5’9 and I  was so pumped to go with a shorter driver length.  I  even had the driver swing weighted properly.   I tried it for about 5 rounds but just could not get the feel for it.   My drives were shorter and no more accurate.  I switched back to 45.5 playing length and I was both straighter and longer.  I also felt like I could feel the shaft bend more.    I know I am probably not in the majority here,  but 45.25 or 45.5 works great for me.

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Driver: Taylormade SIM Max d 9 with graphite design tour ad xc 6s

Fairway Wood:Taylormade Sim 15 with Graphite design Tour ad iz 6s
Hybrid:  Pxg gen2 19 with hand crafted hzrdus black 85 6.0 and Adams super ls xtd 22 with Diamana s+  stiff

Irons: 5-pw Miura Mc501 with modus 120s pured

Wedges:  Callaway md2 gold 50 Dg tour issue s400 black onyx, Taylormade MG 54 with DG tour issue s400 black onyx, and Taylormade hi toe 59 with modus 120r

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2 hours ago, Hotdocta said:

I am only 5’9 and I  was so pumped to go with a shorter driver length.  I  even had the driver swing weighted properly.   I tried it for about 5 rounds but just could not get the feel for it.   My drives were shorter and no more accurate.  I switched back to 45.5 playing length and I was both straighter and longer.  I also felt like I could feel the shaft bend more.    I know I am probably not in the majority here,  but 45.25 or 45.5 works great for me.

I cut my driver shaft to 44.5 a couple of years ago. I didn't care about ruining the shaft or changing the swing weight. I could still hit it pretty much the same distance, but I found myself needing to tee the ball higher... and still catching it low on the face about half the time. I went back to 45.5 and immediately started hitting more consistent. My new driver (TS3) has a 45.75 shaft. I can hi it really well about 50% of the time.  I am also 5'9". I have lost quite a bit of weight over the Winter. I attribute the weight loss to my inconsistent swing, and not shaft length. 

It isn't just the driver... I'm struggling with all clubs right now. I have to figure out how to play at this weight, because I'm not gaining it back! 😉

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On 4/18/2020 at 1:42 PM, jkpigott said:

Curious to see how many are looking at driver shafts shorter than stock and what their experience has been.

Looking at the new stuff in 2019 and 2020, shafts are running 45.5 to 45.75.  Pretty tough to get consistent squared up center-face contact for anyone a 10 and up. Suspect mfrs are going this way to improve club head speed, but ball speed will suffer if you're not making good contact. So will accuracy.

From what I read and hear on various pods, most on tour are well shorter than stock - most around 44.25 to 44.5. Rickie leading the way at 43.5.

Retail doesn't make it easy from the demo carts I've seen.  Most shafts that are different from stock are longer not shorter.  Cobra an exception with their Tour Length (44.5").

I started with shorter driver several years back.  peak distance was a little shorter but fairways hit jumped and was usually very close in distance to stock driver.

Thoughts?

I switched to a shorter shaft(44.5) starting this season, and it’s been a transition mostly due to my range being shutdown due to the pandemic. But I’ve had 20+ rounds with it now, and I am enjoying it. I’m now actually longer due to I am stacking my strikes in the center, and I am hitting a lot more fairways. I do have a fair bit of speed, 110+, so maybe that helps me. I also play a heavier head so swing weight, and the mass helps with ball speed. Overall I have never had control like I do now, and my confidence had improved so much. It’s at least worth a try if you can find one.

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On 4/19/2020 at 10:30 AM, PMookie said:

I would LOVE to try the new Cobra driver at the “Tour Length” they offer. It would be really interesting to compare distance and accuracy vs my driver at 45.25”! I know center-face contact is what will keep it hanging with the longer club, but after watching so many TXG videos, there are a LOT of factors that go into shaft selection so one CAN make center-face contact. It would require a fitting, for sure.

Interestingly, I haven’t heard a PEEP about the “Tour Length”. I need to look through YouTube. So far no one’s mentioning it in there initial testing.

 

... I wrote in every review I have written for drivers that the stock shaft is too long for most players. VP of Engineering at Cobra agreed and several years ago at the PGA Show he smiled when he saw me and the first words out of his mouth were "You are gonna be very happy Sam because we are introducing a Tour Length driver this year!" As an engineer he also liked a shorter stock shaft because his testing showed increased distance e and accuracy with centered contact as opposed to higher swing speed and missing the center. But was always over ruled by Sales. You can't have Callaway and TM testing against a stock Cobra that is 1-1.5" shorter while using a Robot that makes perfect contact and claiming their driver is 18 yds longer than Cobra's. I think it was a stroke of genius for Cobra to offer both. 

... And I have posted this before but I always remember DLIII saying when he absolutely needed a big drive on a par 5 or long par 4 he slowed down his swing just a little to make sure he had perfect contact. Center contact beats higher swing speed on the toe or heel every time. The trick of course is finding the perfect length for your swing. For most it will be 44-45". 

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Driver:   TaylorMade SIM Max ... Diamana Limited 55R
Utility:   Callaway Super Hybrid 17*   ... Diamana Limited 65R
               TaylorMade DHy 19* ... Diamana Limited 65R
Irons:    4-Gw Titleist T100-S ... Steelfiber 95 r-flex
Wedges:  SM6 52* F Grind ... Steelfiber 95 r-flex
                 SM7D & SM8M 58* ... Steelfiber 95 r-flex
Putter:  Newport 2.5 at 33.5"
Ball:  TaylorMade TP5

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I've always liked the idea of a slightly shorter driver length. Like you Sam, I used to play wooden drivers where they were all 43" at the time. My current driver measures ~45.5". However, I grip down about 1"*. I actually do this with all my clubs. So, wouldn't gripping down serve the same function as cutting a shaft to end up with total length of say 44" to 44.5"?

After adjusting my hold on the club I recall immediately finding the center much more and shots feeling more solid. With all clubs.

*Several years ago as I started back down the road to playing well again my instructor asked me to grip down about an inch. I recall him saying, "that's how the pros hold a club." Maybe - maybe not. But I do know that I'd gotten where the butt was concealed mostly and not protruding past my closed grip any.

 

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... Yup, the ball has no idea if your shorter driver is cut to that length or you grip down to that length. Works pretty well for Brooke Henderson who would kick both our a$$es. 🤪 

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Driver:   TaylorMade SIM Max ... Diamana Limited 55R
Utility:   Callaway Super Hybrid 17*   ... Diamana Limited 65R
               TaylorMade DHy 19* ... Diamana Limited 65R
Irons:    4-Gw Titleist T100-S ... Steelfiber 95 r-flex
Wedges:  SM6 52* F Grind ... Steelfiber 95 r-flex
                 SM7D & SM8M 58* ... Steelfiber 95 r-flex
Putter:  Newport 2.5 at 33.5"
Ball:  TaylorMade TP5

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2 hours ago, chisag said:

 

... I wrote in every review I have written for drivers that the stock shaft is too long for most players. VP of Engineering at Cobra agreed and several years ago at the PGA Show he smiled when he saw me and the first words out of his mouth were "You are gonna be very happy Sam because we are introducing a Tour Length driver this year!" As an engineer he also liked a shorter stock shaft because his testing showed increased distance e and accuracy with centered contact as opposed to higher swing speed and missing the center. But was always over ruled by Sales. You can't have Callaway and TM testing against a stock Cobra that is 1-1.5" shorter while using a Robot that makes perfect contact and claiming their driver is 18 yds longer than Cobra's. I think it was a stroke of genius for Cobra to offer both. 

... And I have posted this before but I always remember DLIII saying when he absolutely needed a big drive on a par 5 or long load 4 he slowed down his swing just a little to make sure he had perfect contact. Center contact beats higher swing speed on the toe or heel every time. The trick of course is finding the perfect length for your swing. For most it will be 44-45". 

Nailed it as far as I'm concerned. Gaming a Cobra Speedzone with UST helium tour shaft R flex. Set to  8 and a half degree draw. 74 yrs old. 91 mph swing speed. Constant center face hits averaging 230 yds. Consistently hitting 8 - 10 fairways per round. Love this driver.

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3 hours ago, chisag said:

The trick of course is finding the perfect length for your swing

This is right on the money as usual Sam. I would go a bit further though and say finding the "Right length for your swing with each specific Driver". I have found over the years that my sweet spot for length is between 43.75 and 44.75. It varies depending on what driver head it is. Weight distribution (not just swing weight) in the head can effect things as well as balance point of the shaft. 

I really want to go to a driver fitting at some point, but part of the fun of a new driver for me is the process of finding the right setup.  Weight distribution (draw, fade, forward, or back), swing weight, and length are all part of the journey for me. Maybe I am just getting crazy as I age! 😂

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What is in my Bag Boy Revolver

Driver:    PXG Gen2 0811x 10.5* set to small + with a VA Composites Nemesys 55s @ 44.75"

Fairway:  :srixon-small: F85 5 wood with a UST Elements Chrome 7F5 @ 41.5"

Irons: Testing the Titleist T200 irons 4-W2 with Project X LZ 5.5 shaft -1/2" and 1* Up

Wedge: Titleist SM7 56* with Project X LZ 5.0 shaft

Putter:  :scotty-cameron-1: Custom Futura X5 flow neck with a UST Frequency Filtered shaft -1" with a SS wristlock grip

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On 4/19/2020 at 11:59 AM, jkpigott said:

I actually learned about the tour length by accident.

Was hitting F9 from a demo cart. Put in the 63g Hazardous yellow. Then after hitting so well, put it side by side with an M6. Seeing how much longer the M6 was, I thought maybe I had put a 3-wood shaft in the F9 driver head by mistake.

Spoke to the Cobra specialist in-store and he said "oh yeah, that's a Tour Length shaft". Since then found it in the catalog. Noticed this week it is also called out on their web site.

Seeing the discussion above, I have created some franken-sticks through chopping and adding back.  Have never been thrilled with any of them.  But getting one new with the right length and weight has been great.  Just wish more mfrs put shorter options in the demo carts for fitting at the major retailers accessible to the masses.  I would be very surprised if TXG, Club Champion or Tru Spec did not have these shorter shafts as an option, but maybe I'll ask.

 

I switched to 44.5" last spring and picked up distance and tighter dispersion.

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I've posted this in another thread recently, IIRC...

I've largely switched to playing my drivers no longer than 44", and primarily at 43.5", if not a bit shorter.  Over the years, I've found that once I get past 44.5", my tee game gets magnitudes worse.  Seeing how I already have directional issues, I try avoiding those longer clubs.

On top of that, a fitting session showed me my max clubhead speed is perhaps around 43.25", 43", or possibly even shorter.  I was 3mph faster at 43" than at 44.25" or 44.125", regardless of shaft weight.

I've taken too long thinking about that before starting to cut down several drivers to 43.5".  I really need to try 43", but I've hesitated.  Should just suck it up and give it a go; I've got several options for experimentation.

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Driver: TM Original One 11.5* set to 10*, Aldila RIP Alpha 80 X, 43.5"
3w:  Cobra King LTD, Matrix 8m3 X, 42"
2h or 3h:  TaylorMade Stage 2 Tour, Aldila NV105 S
Irons:  3-PW Mizuno MP37, Recoil Proto 125 F4 (reshaft in progress, slowly); 1-PW Golden Ram TW282 or Vibration Matched Golden Rams, RIP Tour 115 R (coin flipping for the reshaft project); 1i & 3-PW Golden Ram TW276, NV105 S
GW: Dynacraft Dual Milled CNC 52*, DGS300; Scratch 8620 DS 53*, Steelfiber 125 S
SW:  Ram TG-898 56*, DGX ss2x; Ram Tom Watson 55*, DGX ss2x; Wilson Staff PMP 58*, DGS; Golden Ram TW276, DGS; Golden Ram TW282, DGS; Ram Troon Grind 56*, DGS
LW:  Maltby Design 60*, 1.05 sole, DGS; Maltby Design 60* 1.05 sole, NV105
Putter:  Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34"
Ball:  Wilson Staff Duo Professional, or TM TP5

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8 hours ago, NRJyzr said:

I've posted this in another thread recently, IIRC...

I've largely switched to playing my drivers no longer than 44", and primarily at 43.5", if not a bit shorter.  Over the years, I've found that once I get past 44.5", my tee game gets magnitudes worse.  Seeing how I already have directional issues, I try avoiding those longer clubs.

On top of that, a fitting session showed me my max clubhead speed is perhaps around 43.25", 43", or possibly even shorter.  I was 3mph faster at 43" than at 44.25" or 44.125", regardless of shaft weight.

I've taken too long thinking about that before starting to cut down several drivers to 43.5".  I really need to try 43", but I've hesitated.  Should just suck it up and give it a go; I've got several options for experimentation.

How do you manage the change in swing weight?

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15 hours ago, Jchris05 said:

How do you manage the change in swing weight?


I've done a couple different things.  The TM movable weight drivers are nice, I just swap in different weights for the standard; I have a 20g and 12g in my SuperDeep, for example.  Mostly, it's lead tape, though.  I experimented with cotton balls in my King LTD, but went away from that in favor of lead tape.  

Driver: TM Original One 11.5* set to 10*, Aldila RIP Alpha 80 X, 43.5"
3w:  Cobra King LTD, Matrix 8m3 X, 42"
2h or 3h:  TaylorMade Stage 2 Tour, Aldila NV105 S
Irons:  3-PW Mizuno MP37, Recoil Proto 125 F4 (reshaft in progress, slowly); 1-PW Golden Ram TW282 or Vibration Matched Golden Rams, RIP Tour 115 R (coin flipping for the reshaft project); 1i & 3-PW Golden Ram TW276, NV105 S
GW: Dynacraft Dual Milled CNC 52*, DGS300; Scratch 8620 DS 53*, Steelfiber 125 S
SW:  Ram TG-898 56*, DGX ss2x; Ram Tom Watson 55*, DGX ss2x; Wilson Staff PMP 58*, DGS; Golden Ram TW276, DGS; Golden Ram TW282, DGS; Ram Troon Grind 56*, DGS
LW:  Maltby Design 60*, 1.05 sole, DGS; Maltby Design 60* 1.05 sole, NV105
Putter:  Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34"
Ball:  Wilson Staff Duo Professional, or TM TP5

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How do you manage the change in swing weight?

I actually dislike the look of lead tape. I prefer the ability to change weight with interchangeable ones but that doesn’t always work. I bought a hot melt gun and a couple cartridges for the times I can’t just purchase different weights.


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

 

 

 

What is in my Bag Boy Revolver

Driver:    PXG Gen2 0811x 10.5* set to small + with a VA Composites Nemesys 55s @ 44.75"

Fairway:  :srixon-small: F85 5 wood with a UST Elements Chrome 7F5 @ 41.5"

Irons: Testing the Titleist T200 irons 4-W2 with Project X LZ 5.5 shaft -1/2" and 1* Up

Wedge: Titleist SM7 56* with Project X LZ 5.0 shaft

Putter:  :scotty-cameron-1: Custom Futura X5 flow neck with a UST Frequency Filtered shaft -1" with a SS wristlock grip

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I've cut down a couple drivers now to 43", going to bring them along tomorrow in place of my persimmons.  One is an R9 SuperDeep with a ProtoPype 80, the other is quite old school, a Precept 260LS, with a PF85 shaft.

Could be interesting.  

Driver: TM Original One 11.5* set to 10*, Aldila RIP Alpha 80 X, 43.5"
3w:  Cobra King LTD, Matrix 8m3 X, 42"
2h or 3h:  TaylorMade Stage 2 Tour, Aldila NV105 S
Irons:  3-PW Mizuno MP37, Recoil Proto 125 F4 (reshaft in progress, slowly); 1-PW Golden Ram TW282 or Vibration Matched Golden Rams, RIP Tour 115 R (coin flipping for the reshaft project); 1i & 3-PW Golden Ram TW276, NV105 S
GW: Dynacraft Dual Milled CNC 52*, DGS300; Scratch 8620 DS 53*, Steelfiber 125 S
SW:  Ram TG-898 56*, DGX ss2x; Ram Tom Watson 55*, DGX ss2x; Wilson Staff PMP 58*, DGS; Golden Ram TW276, DGS; Golden Ram TW282, DGS; Ram Troon Grind 56*, DGS
LW:  Maltby Design 60*, 1.05 sole, DGS; Maltby Design 60* 1.05 sole, NV105
Putter:  Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34"
Ball:  Wilson Staff Duo Professional, or TM TP5

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Played 46 for years, bought one of the new Hogan drivers and had it cut to 45...at my height of 5’7 with a flat swing it feels easier to square up. Haven’t lost any yardage.

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I got fitted for a driver this year and had shaft cut to 44.5". It feel much shorter than my old driver (46"), but I have found that I have much more control and didn't lose any distance with a shaft that is fitted correctly. I would recommend a fitting and playing around with it.

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:callaway-small: Mavrik Subzero, 9.5*, VA Nemesys 75, Golfpride MCC Align Midsize

:callaway-small: Mavrik Max Fairway Wood, 15*, Stock shaft, Golfpride MCC Midsize

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:benhogan-small: 2020 Ben Hogan Icon Irons 8-PW, Project X LZ, Golfpride MCC Midsize

:benhogan-small: 2020 Ben Hogan PTxPro Irons 4-7, Project X LZ, Golfpride MCC Midsize

:titelist-small: Vokey SM8 50*, 54*, 60*, Stock vokey shaft, Golfpride MCC Midsize

:cameron-small: Scotty Cameron California Mid-Mallet

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