Thin2win Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 1 hour ago, PMookie said: Yep. I was saying this very thing when the stat about FIR came-out yesterday. It’s not like Bryson hit more fairways. The whole field was way down, so the argument, that hitting more fairways was blown away by Bryson, is completely moot. If the field had shown more accuracy, then there’d be an argument. Agreed. Long rough, narrow fairways and long holes disproportionately benefit the long hitters. Now, long rough, narrow fairways and a short course. That is how you stop the drive from winning the day. If they setup a course with no fairways, only rough, everyone would just hit it as far as possible and the longest drivers would see the biggest benefit, that was almost what happened this weekend. HardcoreLooper and PMookie 2 Quote WITB: Driver: SIM2 Max 12° - Accra TZ6 M4 FW Wood: Gen5 0311 7w Fujikura Motore X F3 Irons: ZX7 PW-7i, ZX5 6i-5i Wedges: Zipcore 50°, 58° Putter: MySpider X Cart: Onewheel XR+ Ball: Z-Star Diamond/ Z-Star XV 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thin2win Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 I guess, if the powers at be really want to reward driving accuracy, just put white OB stakes within 3 yards of every fairway. I just played a course that had super wide fairways, but no rough and OB stakes on both sides of every hole. Was the hardest course I've ever played. Quote WITB: Driver: SIM2 Max 12° - Accra TZ6 M4 FW Wood: Gen5 0311 7w Fujikura Motore X F3 Irons: ZX7 PW-7i, ZX5 6i-5i Wedges: Zipcore 50°, 58° Putter: MySpider X Cart: Onewheel XR+ Ball: Z-Star Diamond/ Z-Star XV 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiscipleofPenick Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 Just a few responses. First, its INAPPROPRIATE to grow rough high enough to impact the PGA Tour players, and then leave it that high for the rest of us mere mortals. Its not worth asking the question, really, we should never be playing a course with that kind of rough in our normal play. Par is defined as you say it, but the "expert player", the scratch golfer, is also defined as a player who hits it 250 or so for course rating purposes. This is a realistic number for most scratch players, based on the most recent USGA/R&A Distance Insights report. You can be an expert without being one of the extremely small group of experts who compete on the big professional tours. I do agree, I'm not crazy about the evolution of playing style on the top tour, but there have been some really exciting competitions this year, and some course set-ups where there's more premium on accuracy. Its interesting that when you narrow the fairways too much, you encourage bomb and gouge. If you're going to miss half the fairways, its better to be 30 or 50 yards closer to the green and hitting wedge from the rough instead of 6-iron. Pot bunkers that force a player to hit sideways, trees that require the same kind of thing, those factors increase the penalty for inaccuracy. Agree about the rough and the playing style. It's also inappropriate to make rulings or changes that effect everyone, I would say negatively if we're talking less distance, based on what 1% of the 1% do & play.Take Dead Aim Quote Take Dead Aim Driver: PXG 0211 10.5* Fairway: Titleist 917 F3 15* Hybrid: Adams Idea Pro Boxer Gold 18* Irons: MacGregor MT-86 Pro Wedges: Vokey 50/54/58 Putter: SeeMore X2 Costa del Mar Ball: Srixon Z-Star Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEZIPR23 Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, Thin2win said: Agreed. Long rough, narrow fairways and long holes disproportionately benefit the long hitters. Now, long rough, narrow fairways and a short course. That is how you stop the drive from winning the day. If they setup a course with no fairways, only rough, everyone would just hit it as far as possible and the longest drivers would see the biggest benefit, that was almost what happened this weekend. I don't think narrow fairways is the answer. They had narrow fairways at wing foot and accuracy didn't matter at all. Short or long course, you have to find a way to balance accuracy vs distance. Not easy to do. HardcoreLooper and PMookie 2 Quote Stealth 2+ 9 (Diamana PD 60 S 45") Stealth 2+ 15 (Diamana PD 70 S 43") G425 19 (Raijin 2.0 85x) G425 22 (Raijin 2.0 85x) ZX7 5-9 (KBS C Taper S) Vokey SM9 45 10 F (KBS 610) Vokey SM9 49 08 F (KBS 610) Vokey SM9 55 08 M (KBS 610) Vokey SM9 59 04 T (KBS 610) Spider GT Splitback 34" ProV1 #23 Twitter @THEZIPR23 "One thing Golf has taught me, is that my muscles have no memory." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveP043 Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 9 minutes ago, THEZIPR23 said: I don't think narrow fairways is the answer. They had narrow fairways at wing foot and accuracy didn't matter at all. Short or long course, you have to find a way to balance accuracy vs distance. Not easy to do. The other thing that's not easy to do is to accept that the game has changed and will continue to change. Modern elite players simply don't need to play the same strategy that Nicklaus did, just as Nicklaus didn't need to play the same strategy that Bobby Jones did, and Jones didn't play the way Tom Morris (take your pick which one) did. THEZIPR23, PMookie and HardcoreLooper 2 1 Quote Irons Titleist T200, AMT Red stiff Rogue SubZero, GD YS-Six X T22 54 and 58 wedges 7-wood 5-wood B60 G5i putter Right handed Reston, Virginia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Federalist88 Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 I think it's important to note what Bryson did to himself to put himself in this position. The dude packed on, I think, 40+ pounds in hopes of what could be. Bryson saw the advantages, took a risk, and it ultimately paid off. Additionally, how about his choice of one-length irons and putter with more loft than his driver. When push comes to shove, I think this will boil down to being an overaction by most. The same think happened after the rocket mortgage. The dude is jacked, swings hard, hits it straight, and makes putts. I'm perfectly fine with someone winning with that formula. Quote Cobra King F9 - Fuji Ventus Blue 6X Taylormade M3 - 15*: Graphite Design Tour AD TP 6X Cobra F9 Speedback: Graphite Design Tour AD-IZ 6X TM P760's 4-PW - Modus 120X 50* Vokey X100 53* and 58* Vokey SM8 X100 L.A.B. Putters 2.1 Directed Force Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMookie Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 24 minutes ago, DaveP043 said: The other thing that's not easy to do is to accept that the game has changed and will continue to change. Modern elite players simply don't need to play the same strategy that Nicklaus did, just as Nicklaus didn't need to play the same strategy that Bobby Jones did, and Jones didn't play the way Tom Morris (take your pick which one) did. I love it. Yep. In basketball they shoot threes all the time, no more pounding it inside. In football, they’re throwing the ball all over the place. In baseball, they swing for the fences, and strikeout at record pace. Tennis is COMPLETELY different from when Borg and McEnroe competed for Wimbledon.... For some reason, golf has to stay the same! The “stuffiness” needs to go away. Quote Driver: Ping G430 Max 9*, Ping Tour 70X Fairway: Ping G425 15*, Ping Tour 70X Hybrid: Ping G425 22*, Ping Tour 80X Irons: Ping i230 4-GW, TT DG X100 Wedges: SMS 50D/54V/58DModus 130 stiff, +1” Putter: EAS 1.0 Ball: Titleist 2023 AVX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom the Golf Nut Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 I can understand making the course conditions tough for the Pro's. Especially for the US open. But there comes a point in time when it's just too much. With the fairways so narrow and the rough so deep have they gone too far? The biggest injury in golf are wrist injury's. Why try to cause injury. Ok their rough should be deeper than ours, but that was too much in my opinion. You want to make it tough go the other way on a few things. Increase the height of the grass in the fairway for less roll, increase the height of the grass on the greens to slow down the putts. Lets see them try to make a 50 foot putt on a green rolling to an 8 instead of a 12 to 14. Only a few years back their putting conditions were running at a 10. Then they thought it would be tougher to speed them up. That's not working! Let's face it they are Pro's and they will adapt to the conditions. If they shoot 15 under so what. Quote Driver, TSi 1 S Flex 3 wood, Aerojet Max UST Helium Nanocore R Flex 5 wood, Aerojet Max UST Helium Nanocore R Flex 7 Wood, Aerojet Max UST Helium Nanocore R Flex 5 Hybrid King Tec MMT R Flex Irons, Tour UST Recoil 95 R Flex (6 - Gap) Wedges, Snakebite KBS Hi- Rev2.0 54* & 60* Agera 35" Ultralight 14-way Cart Bag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hook DeLoft Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 1 minute ago, Tom the Golf Nut said: I can understand making the course conditions tough for the Pro's. Especially for the US open. But there comes a point in time when it's just too much. With the fairways so narrow and the rough so deep have they gone too far? The biggest injury in golf are wrist injury's. Why try to cause injury. Ok their rough should be deeper than ours, but that was too much in my opinion. You want to make it tough go the other way on a few things. Increase the height of the grass in the fairway for less roll, increase the height of the grass on the greens to slow down the putts. Lets see them try to make a 50 foot putt on a green rolling to an 8 instead of a 12 to 14. Only a few years back their putting conditions were running at a 10. Then they thought it would be tougher to speed them up. That's not working! Let's face it they are Pro's and they will adapt to the conditions. If they shoot 15 under so what. When the Stimp meter was first invented in the 60's, the USGA sent a team to measure the green speeds at a number of top courses such as Augusta National, Winged Foot, Oakmont, etc. IIRC, the fastest greens were at Oakmont and they measured at 9 or 10. Augusta measured at a 7. If you have a good stroke, putts are easier to make on fast greens -- although that rule has limits. For instance, I'm guessing a Stimp reading of 20 would truly be impossible. On the subject of putting a premium on accuracy, growing long rough is not going to do it at the highest levels. When I'm in long rough, I am lucky to hit the ball 10 yards back into the fairway. That is not an issue for tour players. I'm beginning to think the only way to award accuracy on tour is to plant a whole lot of trees very close to the fairways. Quote 14 of the following: Ping G430 Max 10.5 degree Callaway 2023 Big Bertha 3 wood set to 17 degrees Cobra F9 Speedback 7/8 wood set at 23.5 degrees Callaway Epic Max 11 wood Ping Eye 2 BeCu 2-SW Mizuno 923 JPX HM HL 6-GW Hogan sand wedge 56 degree bent to 53 Maltby M Series+ 54 degree Ping Glide 3.0 Eye2 58 degree Ping Glide 3.0 60 degree Evnroll ER2 Ping Sigma 2 Anser Cheap Top Flite mallet putter from Dick's, currently holding down first place in the bag TaylorMade Mini Spider Bridgestone XS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom the Golf Nut Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 I got it.... Get some blue tarps and cut them in the shape of a pond and place them in the fairway at 280 yards. If they hit the tarp its in the water. Penalty! JUST KIDDING. But temporary hazards of some type would be interesting. This way your not killing a course for everyone else once the event is over. Quote Driver, TSi 1 S Flex 3 wood, Aerojet Max UST Helium Nanocore R Flex 5 wood, Aerojet Max UST Helium Nanocore R Flex 7 Wood, Aerojet Max UST Helium Nanocore R Flex 5 Hybrid King Tec MMT R Flex Irons, Tour UST Recoil 95 R Flex (6 - Gap) Wedges, Snakebite KBS Hi- Rev2.0 54* & 60* Agera 35" Ultralight 14-way Cart Bag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cory O Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 10 minutes ago, Tom the Golf Nut said: I got it.... Get some blue tarps and cut them in the shape of a pond and place them in the fairway at 280 yards. If they hit the tarp its in the water. Penalty! JUST KIDDING. But temporary hazards of some type would be interesting. This way your not killing a course for everyone else once the event is over. I'd mentioned that above, just a few strategically placed white stakes won't prevent the bombs, but it could make it a riskier proposition. I honestly do think this is the answer, at least at the occasional tournament. Quote 2024 is the year of the short set! Driver: TaylorMade BRNR 11.5* stiff Hybrid: PXG 0311 GEN5 19* Irons: JustGolf Forged Blades (4, 6, 8, PW) Wedge: 56* Forged Prototype Putter: PXG Blackjack Center Shaft 34" Bag: Sunday Golf Loma XL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEZIPR23 Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 24 minutes ago, Tom the Golf Nut said: I got it.... Get some blue tarps and cut them in the shape of a pond and place them in the fairway at 280 yards. If they hit the tarp its in the water. Penalty! JUST KIDDING. But temporary hazards of some type would be interesting. This way your not killing a course for everyone else once the event is over. Wouldn't this just make accuracy the same advantage that distance is now? Flip4000 1 Quote Stealth 2+ 9 (Diamana PD 60 S 45") Stealth 2+ 15 (Diamana PD 70 S 43") G425 19 (Raijin 2.0 85x) G425 22 (Raijin 2.0 85x) ZX7 5-9 (KBS C Taper S) Vokey SM9 45 10 F (KBS 610) Vokey SM9 49 08 F (KBS 610) Vokey SM9 55 08 M (KBS 610) Vokey SM9 59 04 T (KBS 610) Spider GT Splitback 34" ProV1 #23 Twitter @THEZIPR23 "One thing Golf has taught me, is that my muscles have no memory." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom the Golf Nut Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 4 hours ago, THEZIPR23 said: Wouldn't this just make accuracy the same advantage that distance is now? True, but it would get more players in contention. Also probably force more accuracy with longer clubs into the green. Not that they aren't accurate now. But there is a difference between a wedge and a 4 iron into the green for sure. Quote Driver, TSi 1 S Flex 3 wood, Aerojet Max UST Helium Nanocore R Flex 5 wood, Aerojet Max UST Helium Nanocore R Flex 7 Wood, Aerojet Max UST Helium Nanocore R Flex 5 Hybrid King Tec MMT R Flex Irons, Tour UST Recoil 95 R Flex (6 - Gap) Wedges, Snakebite KBS Hi- Rev2.0 54* & 60* Agera 35" Ultralight 14-way Cart Bag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardcoreLooper Posted September 22, 2020 Share Posted September 22, 2020 Make the ball spin again. There were guys who could mash it during the wound ball days, but there was a risk of hitting the ball off the planet. Bryson may not have hit a ton of fairways, but I don't recall having seen him in the trees. And most of the time, he was on the correct side of the fairway to give himself an angle into the green where he could get the ball on the putting surface, even if he had to bounce the ball on. He was able to take the wrong side of the hole out of play just about every time, and that's all he needed to do. A spinnier ball is not a Harrison Bergeron move to disadvantage longer hitters. A long hitter hitting a 280 yard driving iron is going to be better than Brendon Todd hitting 280 yard drivers most weeks. But it should do the following: Make the really long drive more exciting. If a really long drive is a high risk shot, it'll be more exciting when someone uncorks one. Bring back shotmaking off the tee. Let's see stingers and squeeze fades again. Bring back shotmaking on approach shots. Maybe we won't see 4 irons into par 4s, but maybe we'll see 7 irons? I don't think we'll see different players rising to the top, but I'd love to watch something other than driver/wedge for 14 of 18 holes. Hook DeLoft and aerospace_ray 2 Quote What's in the bag: Driver - F8 - Aldila NV Blue 60 ( S ) 3 Wood (13.5*) - 980F 4 Wood (18*) - F8 - Aldila NV Blue 60 ( S ) 3 Hybrid (19*) - RBZ 4i - PW - D7 Forged - Recoil 760 ( S ) 52* - CBX 58* - CBX Full Face 2 Putter - Craz-e Bag - 2.5 (Blue) Ball - AVX Instagram - @hardcorelooper Twitter - @meovino Facebook - mike.eovino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip4000 Posted September 23, 2020 Share Posted September 23, 2020 On 9/21/2020 at 3:37 PM, THEZIPR23 said: Wouldn't this just make accuracy the same advantage that distance is now? Exactly I think if we start punishing one group, we are just going to give an advantage to a different type of golfer or different group. I thought the cool thing about golf was allowing people to use their unique advantages to play the course how they think best to score as low as possible.I hate the idea of telling players that have power or worked hard to gain power, that its too big of an advantage. We'd never tell one of the master class iron players that "oh you are too accurate, time we do something about that" why do the same to guys who hit it long and use that to combat some of their inaccuracies in other parts of the game. THEZIPR23 1 Quote Right Handed Taylormade sim2 9 degree ventus black 7x ( velecore) 44.5 Callaway epic flash sz 5 wood 17 degree tensi AV blue X Mizuno CLK 19 degree tensi av blue X Callaway x forged 16 4-pw Project x 6.0 +.75 Vokey SM7 black 50/54/58 Project x 6.0 flighted +.5 length Scotty cameron newport 2.6 34 length Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.