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Faldo says driver size should be reduced.


ZenGolfer

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Interesting read: https://www.golf-monthly.co.uk/news/should-the-driver-size-be-reduced-faldo-speaks-out-and-twitter-reacts-195568

Everyone knows my thoughts on this one: limit driver size to 190cc and put the emphasis back on ball striking instead of just swinging as hard as you can.

"I suppose its better to be a master of 7 than to be vaguely familiar with 14." - Chick Evans

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39 minutes ago, ZenGolfer said:

limit driver size to 190cc and put the emphasis back on ball striking

I usually think of ball striking when discussing iron play but hey, if a 190cc driver floats your boat - go for it. I'm going to play what I like too which happens to be a 460cc head driver. I like having choices. Doesn't everyone? 🏌️‍♂️ 

My Sun Mountain bag currently includes:   TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png 771CSI 5i - PW and TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png PFC Micro Tour-c 52°, 56°, 60 wedges

                                                                               :755178188_TourEdge: EXS 10.5*, TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png 929-HS FW4 16.5* 

                                                                                :edel-golf-1: Willimette w/GolfPride Contour

 

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I usually think of ball striking when discussing iron play but hey, if a 190cc driver floats your boat - go for it. I'm going to play what I like too which happens to be a 460cc head driver. I like having choices. Doesn't everyone?  
I'm with you. I just dont agree with some who seem to think it would ruin the game. I honestly think the answer is just to grow the rough and narrow the fairways. You want to play bomb and gouge? Cool. Good luck findung your ball, much less hacking your 2nd shot out of 4"-6" deep rough.

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"I suppose its better to be a master of 7 than to be vaguely familiar with 14." - Chick Evans

Whats in my Sun Mountain 2.5+ stand bag?

Woods: Tommy Armour Atomic 10.5* 

Hybrid: Mizuno MP Fli-Hi 3H

Irons: Mizuno T-Zoid True 5, 7 and 9-irons

Wedge: Mizuno S18 54* and Top Flite chipper

Putter: Mizuno Bettinardi A-02

Ball: Maxfli Tour X

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3 hours ago, ZenGolfer said:

Interesting read: https://www.golf-monthly.co.uk/news/should-the-driver-size-be-reduced-faldo-speaks-out-and-twitter-reacts-195568

Everyone knows my thoughts on this one: limit driver size to 190cc and put the emphasis back on ball striking instead of just swinging as hard as you can.

You realize the pros his 150cc woods 300+ yards. 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

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I think we should revert back to hickory shafts, and force the players to fabricate their own clubs out of whatever material and means they can find. And play with wiffle balls too

Right Handed

Driver: 9° :cobra-small: Speedzone (HZRDUS Smoke Green 70g X-Stiff shaft)

2 Hybrid: 18° :tour-edge: Exotics EXS Pro (Evenflow Black 6.5) (2020 MGS Official Review here)

3/Driving Iron: 18° :Hogan: UiHi Iron (MMT Utility TX 105g shaft)

Irons: 4-GW :titelist-small: T100 irons (Nippon Modus 120 X-Stiff shafts) (2021 MGS Official Review here)

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Interesting read: https://www.golf-monthly.co.uk/news/should-the-driver-size-be-reduced-faldo-speaks-out-and-twitter-reacts-195568
Everyone knows my thoughts on this one: limit driver size to 190cc and put the emphasis back on ball striking instead of just swinging as hard as you can.

Let the boys play! I think it’s just fine to have the big drivers. Granted they have much more forgiveness in these new drivers but they can get out of play quickly with h the speeds they are producing. I like watching golf when they can bomb drives and have lightning speed greens. In terms of playing, that’s one of the best feelings on the course is smashing a driver down the pipe. There is so much talk about pulling back some advancements that have been made, that will just come with time. But in order to keep more folks playing the game and getting new people to try it, I don’t think pulling things back would help.


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Like RickyBobby said above. They already hit small headed 3ws 300+, so reducing the driver head will only change things marginally. I still think conditions should become course specific instead of Tour specific. I remember reading an article a while back where a pro was commenting that his sand play ability was much lower, now, than what it was in College because the traps are conditioned the same on most of the courses they compete upon. In college, they were almost all different and he had to know how to play each type of sand. Imagine if they didn't have ball spotters and a gallery to tromp the rough down. Fairways that were inconsistent and greens that varied from course to course. In other words, play the same conditions we play.

BT

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Club head size isn't likely to do much harm to professional golfers - they're already good ball strikers and capable of consistently finding the center of the club face. It will hurt developing amateurs and recreational golfers. Agronomy is the only good solution I see for the professional game. Bifurcation is a distant second.

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Fairway Wood: :mizuno-small: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
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Leave it at 460.

Who cares how far they hit it. In the end they still have to get the ball on the green and make the putt.

I used to be in the “reduce the driver” crowd, but honestly it doesn’t matter. I mentioned in the random thread about skateboarding... I haven’t skated in nearly 20 years, but all of the brands are till around, and the technology hasn’t changed a whole lot.

460cc drivers have been around for the same amount of time, tech has gotten better every year.

Let DJ, Bubba, G. Wood hit those bombs. People enjoy it. And right now is not the time to be talking about rolling the driver back... look at B.A.D. And his 200+mph ball speed... he’d figure out a way to do it with a 190cc club too.

But give more options, like 300-460cc

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41 minutes ago, jlukes said:

Faldo loves hearing himself talk. Worst golf announcer there is. 

I can respect the accomplishments he achieved on the course as a golfer, but he is ignorantly out of touch with the modern game. I get so sick and tired of him spouting off about how he would play a shot or make a suggestion that he could have avoided some error a current tour pro makes because he's just that much more knowledgeable or something. I don't know if he is actually the worst, but he could very well be my least favorite.

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9 minutes ago, Shankster said:

Leave it at 460.

Who cares how far they hit it. In the end they still have to get the ball on the green and make the putt.

I used to be in the “reduce the driver” crowd, but honestly it doesn’t matter. I mentioned in the random thread about skateboarding... I haven’t skated in nearly 20 years, but all of the brands are till around, and the technology hasn’t changed a whole lot.

460cc drivers have been around for the same amount of time, tech has gotten better every year.

Let DJ, Bubba, G. Wood hit those bombs. People enjoy it. And right now is not the time to be talking about rolling the driver back... look at B.A.D. And his 200+mph ball speed... he’d figure out a way to do it with a 190cc club too.

But give more options, like 300-460cc

I come from a BMX background and granted modern BMX bikes have benefited from lighter components and new design philosophies, the tricks performed today exceed that of previous generations because of training and access to better facilities. Golf is no different IMO.

Driver: :mizuno-small: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S
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The only argument I could listen to regarding reducing driver size has nothing to do with distance, and everything to do with consistency across the face. Always hear the older guys talking about when you absolutely had to hit it “on the screws”. The ball is also more forgiving now than past generations. Changing those things will not have much of an impact on the pro game because they hit it so pure most of the time anyways. It will hurt amateurs who want to play and enjoy the game with the little practice time they have. 
I do agree with the above comments about making the course faster and narrower, or stop clipping the fairways so they’re more consistent than a carpet. Reduce the water use and let the course get a bit shaggy. Let the rough grow, and rake the sand with your foot on the way out. 

Stats: 5'4", Male, R-Handed, Moderate Tempo, Driver SS 115mph
 

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I appreciate his thoughts but I don’t play with many (any) guys who have the game or their driver mastered. It’s a fun game that needs to continue to appeal to younger generations to survive. Let the kids hit bombs and enjoy the game as we get to!

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I'm in the camp of wanting to see the professionals do extreme feats. Rolling back equipment limits them from doing so. I love seeing a tournament winner shoot -24 for the week as much as seeing another tournament like this year's Honda Classic where the winner shoots -6 for the week. In each situation, the golfer that has played the course in the fewest strokes has won. Golf is one of those great games where there is more than one way to succeed.

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I like it how pros in the twilight of their careers suddenly want to to change the game that gave them their glory. Jack Nicklaus was equally vocal about his reservations on equipment, but that didn't stop his company from selling oversized clubs, titanium drivers and distance balls a long time ago either. Let him within sin guys....

Anyhoo...it's been well established that equipment is a small part of the how and why golf balls seem to travel further these days - it's a combination of a lot of things. The driver has never been lighter, stronger or scientifically more optimised than it is today, but by the same token golf courses have never been so manicured and tricked up for TV and pros, sports science has never been so instrumental in fitness and technique, computer ball flight analysis has never been so widespread and (elephant in the room) the money at stake has never been higher. So obviously, the "level playing field" has shifted to the ones who have the most to gain - and it's not just the players. It the whole industry that revolves around it. 

Sure, you could get all the tour pros to use a persimmon driver with a steel shaft and a balata ball in a Tourney on a tight course with slow fairways and fast greens - but joe public doesn't want to see joe pro playing like a chump on prime-time TV. That's the fact of the matter.

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This is posted from the perspective of someone who doesn't believe there is a distance problem....

I like the idea of going smaller with drivers.  It's not going to take away the distance they hit the ball, other than possibly diminishing the average a bit due to the occasional mishit.  What it will do is drastically cut down on the MOI of the drivers, which is a large component of tee game accuracy in the modern game, IMHO.  

Ever notice on a telecast, commentary will be about a pro using a fairway wood to better move the ball laterally off the tee, on holes where it may be necessary.  Remember how we're all told as beginners to hit a 3 wood instead, because the greater loft makes it easier to hit straighter?  Those two conflict, and the difference is the enormous MOI of the modern driver.  Again, IMHO.

Doesn't need to be persimmon, though I might like seeing that, too.  Just go back to 200cc, or 225cc, as a maximum driver displacement.  For the pros, of course.

Or maybe make them all play SLDRs.  LOL

Driver: TM Original One 11.5* set to 11*, Aldila NV75 X, 43.5" -or- SpeedZone, HZRDUS Black 75 6.5, 43.5"
3w:  Cobra King LTD, RIP Beta 90, 42" -or- Stage 2 Tour, NV105 X, 42.5"
2h or 3h:  TaylorMade Stage 2 Tour, Aldila NV105 S -or- RIP Alpha 105 S
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2 hours ago, NRJyzr said:

This is posted from the perspective of someone who doesn't believe there is a distance problem....

I like the idea of going smaller with drivers.  It's not going to take away the distance they hit the ball, other than possibly diminishing the average a bit due to the occasional mishit.  What it will do is drastically cut down on the MOI of the drivers, which is a large component of tee game accuracy in the modern game, IMHO.  

Ever notice on a telecast, commentary will be about a pro using a fairway wood to better move the ball laterally off the tee, on holes where it may be necessary.  Remember how we're all told as beginners to hit a 3 wood instead, because the greater loft makes it easier to hit straighter?  Those two conflict, and the difference is the enormous MOI of the modern driver.  Again, IMHO.

Doesn't need to be persimmon, though I might like seeing that, too.  Just go back to 200cc, or 225cc, as a maximum driver displacement.  For the pros, of course.

Or maybe make them all play SLDRs.  LOL

Drivers are designed for lower spin these days and pair that with a ball that is designed to spin less and go straighter even for the pros the ability to drastically move a ball side to side is reduced unless you are someone like Bubba who changes his setup to hit the shots his eyes see. So for a pro having a wood in their hand gives them a club with more spin and allows them to shape the shot easier.

For amateurs the added loft helps make it easier to hit as does the shorter shaft. Same principle with why amateurs tend to hit their shorter irons better than their longer irons.

 

 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

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5 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Drivers are designed for lower spin these days and pair that with a ball that is designed to spin less and go straighter even for the pros the ability to drastically move a ball side to side is reduced unless you are someone like Bubba who changes his setup to hit the shots his eyes see. So for a pro having a wood in their hand gives them a club with more spin and allows them to shape the shot easier.

For amateurs the added loft helps make it easier to hit as does the shorter shaft. Same principle with why amateurs tend to hit their shorter irons better than their longer irons.

^^^Accurate^^^

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17 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Drivers are designed for lower spin these days and pair that with a ball that is designed to spin less and go straighter even for the pros the ability to drastically move a ball side to side is reduced unless you are someone like Bubba who changes his setup to hit the shots his eyes see. So for a pro having a wood in their hand gives them a club with more spin and allows them to shape the shot easier.

For amateurs the added loft helps make it easier to hit as does the shorter shaft. Same principle with why amateurs tend to hit their shorter irons better than their longer irons.

 

 


It was also said many pros avoided using something like the SLDR because the lower spin made it harder to control. 

I see the Bubba-golfball example as showing us that some golfballs are straighter than others.  That's why he gave up on the Volvik, he couldn't move it.  Or such was the buzz.

Driver: TM Original One 11.5* set to 11*, Aldila NV75 X, 43.5" -or- SpeedZone, HZRDUS Black 75 6.5, 43.5"
3w:  Cobra King LTD, RIP Beta 90, 42" -or- Stage 2 Tour, NV105 X, 42.5"
2h or 3h:  TaylorMade Stage 2 Tour, Aldila NV105 S -or- RIP Alpha 105 S
Irons:  3-PW Mizuno MP37, Recoil Proto 125 F4 (reshaft in progress, slowly); 1i & 3-PW Golden Ram TW276, NV105 S; 2-PW Golden Ram TW282, RIP Tour 115 R
GW: Dynacraft Dual Milled CNC 52*, Steelfiber 125 S; Scratch 8620 DS 53*, Steelfiber 125 S
SW:  Ram TG-898 56*, DGX ss2x; Ram Tom Watson 55*, DGX ss2x; Wilson Staff PMP 58*, DGS; PM Grind 19 58*, stock shaft
Putter:  Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34"; Ping Scottsdale TR Craz-E, 35"; Cleveland Huntington Beach 1, 35"
Ball:  Wilson Staff Duo Professional, Bridgestone Tour B-RXS, Callaway Chrome Soft

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1 hour ago, NRJyzr said:


It was also said many pros avoided using something like the SLDR because the lower spin made it harder to control. 

I see the Bubba-golfball example as showing us that some golfballs are straighter than others.  That's why he gave up on the Volvik, he couldn't move it.  Or such was the buzz.

Correct he was unable to move it as much as he would prefer and as a result he would end up offline from his expected to be. He had to adjust as most pros do and jumped ship when he was able to.
 

The sldr was definitely low spin and the pros like to be on the mid 2000s with spin.  

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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I think it’s so hypocritical for these former pros to talk about rolling back equipment. In the same manner he talks about driver head size, he should’ve not used metal driver heads. He should’ve never played with steel shafts. He never should’ve had access to balls that weren’t wound. Such a joke. They enjoyed the technological advancements of their day, but no one now should be allowed to do so.



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Fairway: Ping G425 15*, Ping Tour 70X

Hybrid: Ping G425 22*, Ping Tour 80X

Irons:  Ping i230 4-GW, TT DG X100

Wedges: :edel-golf-1: SMS 50D/54V/58D:Nippon:Modus 130 stiff, +1”

Putter:  :edel-golf-1: EAS 1.0

Ball: Titleist 2023 AVX

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I think it’s so hypocritical for these former pros to talk about rolling back equipment. In the same manner he talks about driver head size, he should’ve not used metal driver heads. He should’ve never played with steel shafts. He never should’ve had access to balls that weren’t wound. Such a joke. They enjoyed the technological advancements of their day, but no one now should be allowed to do so.



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It’s funny you mentioned this. We were discussing the same at work and thought it was amusing how there hasn’t been a time (besides TM’s .86 COR drivers) where the rules decided that restrictions would be placed on technology.

Let them hit bombs. DJ didn’t start to win until he and his brother learned simple math and could hit his wedges.
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I'm with you. I just dont agree with some who seem to think it would ruin the game. I honestly think the answer is just to grow the rough and narrow the fairways. You want to play bomb and gouge? Cool. Good luck findung your ball, much less hacking your 2nd shot out of 4"-6" deep rough.

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We don’t play bomb and gauge - we’re both in our 60’s and I’m sure both longer than the average which according to ARCOSS is around 210. There is no distance problem in golf. There’s an athletic problem. The one thing the young bombers that I play with have in common is that they are good athletes who are fit.

Perhaps we should ban them from the sport to make it more fair. :)


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On 4/22/2020 at 5:43 PM, PMookie said:

I think it’s so hypocritical for these former pros to talk about rolling back equipment. In the same manner he talks about driver head size, he should’ve not used metal driver heads. He should’ve never played with steel shafts. He never should’ve had access to balls that weren’t wound. Such a joke. They enjoyed the technological advancements of their day, but no one now should be allowed to do so.



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Like jack only having a problem with distance because he’s a course designer yet had no problem being one of the long hitters during his playing days.

5 minutes ago, revkev said:

 

 


We don’t play bomb and gauge - we’re both in our 60’s and I’m sure both longer than the average which according to ARCOSS is around 210. There is no distance problem in golf. There’s an athletic problem. The one thing the young bombers that I play with have in common is that they are good athletes who are fit.

Perhaps we should ban them from the sport to make it more fair. 🙂


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It would be hard to find a top level amateur who isn’t doing some form of physical training and probably even harder to find one that isn’t combing weight training with speed training and/or explosive movement type training. You will find golfers that are more serious/intense in their training than others but that’s no different than in any other sport. But I doubt you find many that aren’t exercising or stretching in some manner

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  • 4 weeks later...

My two cents on this, the US Open experience of the past few years is a good example of how difficult golf can be to the sports elite even with the best equipment. If the powers that be decide golf needs to be more difficult, schedule more difficult venues and let the USGA go crazy. I personally was not a fan of the Shinnecock experience. 

Just curious, does Sir Nick still game his set from back in the good old days? Or is he benefitting from today's oversized drivers??

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