Handicap Question

[AmishJason]

This may have already been covered and if so, my apologies.

 

Is there a way to calculate handicap without a club membership?   The reason I ask is because both courses in my town are horribly overpriced (for different reasons) and the nearest reasonable membership involves a 40 minute drive to play a round of golf.

[DaveP043]

Simplest, and free, calculate it yourself, write a simple spreadsheet to do it.  The calculations are pretty simple, but you won't be able to get the (new this year) Playing Condition Correction (PCC).  Even easier, some services like www.thegrint.com may offer free calculation services, but it won't provide an official handicap.  You can also get an official handicap from the Grint with a moderate fee, I think its something like $40.  Last, and this is my recommended choice, join the Arkansas Golf Association, your membership will include an official USGA handicap.

https://www.asga.org/membership/individual-member-benefits

 

[tony@CIC]

5 hours ago, AmishJason said:

This may have already been covered and if so, my apologies.

 

Is there a way to calculate handicap without a club membership?   The reason I ask is because both courses in my town are horribly overpriced (for different reasons) and the nearest reasonable membership involves a 40 minute drive to play a round of golf.

You're asking a couple of different but related questions. Are you just interested in knowing what your "index/handicap" is or are you interested in an official "index/handicap". If it's the former as @DaveP043 mentioned, you can just set up a simple spreadsheet. Under the new worldwide calculation is the average of your 8 best scores out of the last 20. Keep in mind that you'll want to adjust for slope rating to know your course "handicap"

League play varies from course to course with some being informal and others requiring a USGA official number which is on their GHIN app. So before you start doing a lot of work or spending the money for either Grint or GHIN find out what works. Tournaments on the other hand most generally require GHIN - so if that;'s the end in mind join the state association as Dave mentioned - it's worth the cost of a doz or so balls. 

[DaveP043]

14 minutes ago, tony@CIC said:

You're asking a couple of different but related questions. Are you just interested in knowing what your "index/handicap" is or are you interested in an official "index/handicap". If it's the former as @DaveP043 mentioned, you can just set up a simple spreadsheet. Under the new worldwide calculation is the average of your 8 best scores out of the last 20. Keep in mind that you'll want to adjust for slope rating to know your course "handicap"

League play varies from course to course with some being informal and others requiring a USGA official number which is on their GHIN app. So before you start doing a lot of work or spending the money for either Grint or GHIN find out what works. Tournaments on the other hand most generally require GHIN - so if that;'s the end in mind join the state association as Dave mentioned - it's worth the cost of a doz or so balls. 

I want to add just a bit to this.  GHIN is sometimes used as a synonym for USGA Handicap, and that's not completely accurate.  GHIN is the computational services owned and operated by the USGA, and most state and regional golf associations have chosen to use it.  However, it is possible to have an official USGA Handicap Index and not use GHIN.  The Grint is one way, available throughout the US.  But several State Associations have chosen to use a different service, I know that Maryland is one of them.  A member at Congressional Country Club, where a number of US Opens have been held, will NOT have a GHIN handicap, but he will have a valid USGA Handicap.  

Now for the OP its simple, Arkansas Gold Association uses GHIN, so he can ignore the stuff I just wrote.

Edit.  That guy from Congressional CC may well have aGHIN account.  That's a relatively high-level club, and I'd guess that many members will have membership at one or more additional clubs, and so may have a GHIN number for his other clubs.  I'm not sure of the mechanics, but he's required to make sure that all scores are posted to both systems.  I don't know if the systems are linked and it happens automatically or not.

Edited April 21, 2020 by DaveP043

[tony@CIC]

Just now, DaveP043 said:

I want to add just a bit to this.  GHIN is sometimes used as a synonym for USGA Handicap, and that's not completely accurate.  GHIN is the computational services owned and operated by the USGA, and most state and regional golf associations have chosen to use it.  However, it is possible to have an official USGA Handicap Index and not use GHIN.  The Grint is one way, available throughout the US.  But several State Associations have chosen to use a different service, I know that Maryland is one of them.  A member at Congressional Country Club, where a number of US Opens have been held, will NOT have a GHIN handicap, but he will have a valid USGA Handicap.  

Now for the OP its simple, Arkansas Gold Association uses GHIN, so he can ignore the stuff I just wrote.

Dave, thanks for the clarification - also  I just assumed that USGA and GHIN were inseparable. 

[AmishJason]

6 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

Simplest, and free, calculate it yourself, write a simple spreadsheet to do it.  The calculations are pretty simple, but you won't be able to get the (new this year) Playing Condition Correction (PCC).  Even easier, some services like www.thegrint.com may offer free calculation services, but it won't provide an official handicap.  You can also get an official handicap from the Grint with a moderate fee, I think its something like $40.  Last, and this is my recommended choice, join the Arkansas Golf Association, your membership will include an official USGA handicap.

https://www.asga.org/membership/individual-member-benefits

 

Thank you very much for your answer.  I hadn't even thought about the Arkansas Golf Association.  I'm not looking to enter tourneys or anything like that.  From my perspective (still somewhat new to golf) a handicap seems to be the main measuring stick along side typical score and I just want to see where I measure up.

[AmishJason]

And I have to say, $50 is a lot easier to part with than a full club membership at a course.

[AmishJason]

Now that I think about it, I was probably confused on several levels.  I had been looking at the handicap page on the USGA's website and it said to visit my local club to get set up with a handicap.  I took that and combined it with a statement on the semi-private course's website to mean that I needed a full membership at a golf club/country club in order to get a handicap.  

[TR1PTIK]

13 hours ago, AmishJason said:

Now that I think about it, I was probably confused on several levels.  I had been looking at the handicap page on the USGA's website and it said to visit my local club to get set up with a handicap.  I took that and combined it with a statement on the semi-private course's website to mean that I needed a full membership at a golf club/country club in order to get a handicap.  

I created a spreadsheet to calculate my own handicap using the USGA's formula (pre-2020). It's a good way to evaluate your progress in the game and see how you stack up against other players. It takes some work to do (depending on how many different courses you play), but it's worth the effort IMO. As others have suggested, the Grint app is an excellent workaround also.

[tony@CIC]

I created a spreadsheet to calculate my own handicap using the USGA's formula (pre-2020). It's a good way to evaluate your progress in the game and see how you stack up against other players. It takes some work to do (depending on how many different courses you play), but it's worth the effort IMO. As others have suggested, the Grint app is an excellent workaround also.

Since 80% of my rounds are at the same Club, I would track each round by hole in excel. The downside of my tracking is that I didn't provide details on each specific hole.

The new GHIN app has that feature and provides a summary in graphic form. The miss however is that currently it is not exportable. If you provide hole by hole detail: FIR, GIR, Putts, it will track that on a round and cumulative basis. It will also track performance by hole and chart that as well: Pars or better, Bogies, etc. the other big benefit is that it will adjust your score based the new rule of max index + 2 strokes. As I mentioned the only thing lacking to the ability to export.


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[AmishJason]

13 minutes ago, tony@CIC said:

Since 80% of my rounds are at the same Club, I would track each round by hole in excel. The downside of my tracking is that I didn't provide details on each specific hole.

The new GHIN app has that feature and provides a summary in graphic form. The miss however is that currently it is not exportable. If you provide hole by hole detail: FIR, GIR, Putts, it will track that on a round and cumulative basis. It will also track performance by hole and chart that as well: Pars or better, Bogies, etc. the other big benefit is that it will adjust your score based the new rule of max index + 2 strokes. As I mentioned the only thing lacking to the ability to export.


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Looks like I have a lot to tinker with.  I bought a Garmin Vivoactive 3 recently and through the Garmin Golf app it will track GIR and FIR automatically. I can track individual club stats there as well, but I wasn't able to tinker with everything on the one round I have logged on it.

Stats, stats, and more stats!

[DaveP043]

23 minutes ago, tony@CIC said:

Since 80% of my rounds are at the same Club, I would track each round by hole in excel. The downside of my tracking is that I didn't provide details on each specific hole.

The new GHIN app has that feature and provides a summary in graphic form. The miss however is that currently it is not exportable. If you provide hole by hole detail: FIR, GIR, Putts, it will track that on a round and cumulative basis. It will also track performance by hole and chart that as well: Pars or better, Bogies, etc. the other big benefit is that it will adjust your score based the new rule of max index + 2 strokes. As I mentioned the only thing lacking to the ability to export.

I wasn't sure what was available to your Handicap Committee as far as exporting data, so I checked.  The admins at your club can provide a spreadsheet of scores posted (along with CR, Slope, etc), as far back as you have a scoring history, but as far as I can tell, they cannot export hole by hole or other statistical details.

[tony@CIC]

I wasn't sure what was available to your Handicap Committee as far as exporting data, so I checked.  The admins at your club can provide a spreadsheet of scores posted (along with CR, Slope, etc), as far back as you have a scoring history, but as far as I can tell, they cannot export hole by hole or other statistical details.

Thanks for checking. I did follow up with the GHIN developers and suggested the export or print feature. It would be a shame not to be able to further manipulate or retrieve the data latter on. Btw the desktop version and the mobile version are basically the same in terms of data presentation and capability. Otherwise it's a great improvement over the old version (especially if you're inputting hole by hole stats).


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[tony@CIC]

@DaveP043, I'm diving a bit deeper into the calculation and not coming up with the same answer as GHIN. As background the new system/GHIN moved me up a stroke from 21 to 22. Using the new calculation of the average of the best 8 out of the 20 most recent scores I come up with a 93. That calculation is a total of the best 8 = 744 divided by 8 = 93. If I subtract that from 72 I get 21. Coincidentally, my course handicap  is 21. The tees I typically play from GHIN shows 68.5/123/72 although I did play further back this last time which was  70.7/131/72  and that score was used in the best 8. If I use 68.5 - 93 = 24.5  Based on that how does the calculation work - I thought it was a simple 20/8. Also do you know how the slope rating affects the calculation? On the last round which was the 70.7/131/72 tees, I enteresd the raw score and that what appears in the app - any idea of how the slope rating affects the scores.?   I'm sure GHIN has the right answer and of course I'll be using it but......

Signed perplexed and confused  

[DaveP043]

Just now, tony@CIC said:

@DaveP043, I'm diving a bit deeper into the calculation and not coming up with the same answer as GHIN. As background the new system/GHIN moved me up a stroke from 21 to 22. Using the new calculation of the average of the best 8 out of the 20 most recent scores I come up with a 93. That calculation is a total of the best 8 = 744 divided by 8 = 93. If I subtract that from 72 I get 21. Coincidentally, my course handicap  is 21. The tees I typically play from GHIN shows 68.5/123/72 although I did play further back this last time which was  70.7/131/72  and that score was used in the best 8. If I use 68.5 - 93 = 24.5  Based on that how does the calculation work - I thought it was a simple 20/8.  I'm sure GHIN has the right answer and of course I'll be using it but......

Signed perplexed and confused  

A couple of things.  First, you cannot use your gross scores.  Each must be "transformed" into a Differential, using the formula 

Diff = (Corrected Gross Score - Course Rating) x (113/Slope Rating)  That hasn't changed from the old system

Then you average the best 8 Differentials to get your Handicap Index.  That has changed, from averaging the best 10, and multiplying the result by 0.96.  

When you go backwards, from HI to Course Handicap, calculate your Course Handicap = (HI x (Slope/113)) + (CR-Par)

What I've underlined isn't a coincidence.  The (new in the WHS) use of the term (CR-Par) in calculating your Course Handicap means that when you "play to your Handicap" your net will be par.  Its used to be when you "played to your handicap" your net score was about equal to the Course Rating.  In your case, your Course Handicap would have been 3.5 strokes higher, so your same scores would produce an average net score around 68.5.

I can't explain why your Course Handicap went up.  The changes in the HI calculation tend to counteract each other.  Using 8 Differentials instead of 10 should lower the average, but elimination of the 0.96 multiplier would make the HI go up.  However, the introduction of (CR-Par) to the Course Handicap calculation should definitely make the CH go down, by 3.5 strokes for your normal tees.

 

[tony@CIC]

2 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

 

Diff = (Corrected Gross Score - Course Rating) x (113/Slope Rating)  That hasn't changed from the old system

 

 

Thanks again for your prompt and clear response. - Looks like I wasn't entering that into the equation, guess I'll just stick with the app calculation and not try to think too deeply about it. . 

[HeathS16]

The Grint is $19.99 for the year for basic USGA calculation along with some of their stats. Was good enough for me and easier to part with $20 for the year!


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[tony@CIC]

2 minutes ago, HeathS16 said:

The Grint is $19.99 for the year for basic USGA calculation along with some of their stats. Was good enough for me and easier to part with $20 for the year!


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Our GHIN is free with our club membership (well maybe not - there's no free lunch) . 

[GolfSpy AFG]

On ‎4‎/‎26‎/‎2020 at 10:50 AM, HeathS16 said:

The Grint is $19.99 for the year for basic USGA calculation along with some of their stats. Was good enough for me and easier to part with $20 for the year!


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

FWIW, happy Grint user here.  The GPS is as accurate as any other phone app I've seen, and great user friendly stat tracking.  and yes, a fully USGA compliant handicap.  $20 gets you those features, $40 moves up to their premium service that gives you more stat-tracking, scorecard snapshot score uploads, etc.  $20 version is plenty for most...

[Guest Delete]

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Edited June 29, 2020 by Delete
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[DaveP043]

On 5/2/2020 at 11:38 AM, TimoTe said:

thegrint.com or the grint app will give you a conforming handicap for $20 a year. You simply enter the score of each hole and how many putts on each hole. They do the rest. 

If you want to do it yourself then you would need to figure out your own equitable stroke controlled score for every round you played for the last 20 rounds. Use the slope and course rating to determine the resulting course handicap from those. Then take the best 8 and average them. Then multiply that by .96 to get your index.

I use the grint. Much easier and qualifies for handicap events for only $20 a year.

This isn't exactly right.  First adjust your score if necessary (learn about Net Double Bogey for your max score on a hole, Equitable Stroke Control is no longer used), calculate the Differential (multiply Score x 113/Slope Rating), and average the best 8 differentials of the last 20.  The 0.96 multiplier is no longer used.  The calculations are basic, but it really is easier to use a service.  

[Guest Delete]

2 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

This isn't exactly right.  First adjust your score if necessary (learn about Net Double Bogey for your max score on a hole, Equitable Stroke Control is no longer used), calculate the Differential (multiply Score x 113/Slope Rating), and average the best 8 differentials of the last 20.  The 0.96 multiplier is no longer used.  The calculations are basic, but it really is easier to use a service.  

The Grint does it for you. If you do it by hand then you only count net double bogey. The Grint calculates net double bogey off of the real scores entered which makes it easier.

I didn't realize they took out the .96 calculation. Going from 10/20 to 8/20 seems to accomplish the same goal.

Thanks for the clarification

[highscore]

We have a situation where a golfer is a 23 handicap, shot an 84 and recorded a 91 for the match. I have his card so there is proof of what he scored. I know we can put in the 84 for him but should the 91 be taken or would this be adequate punishment for highballing his score? There's always the chance that he played twice on the same day and "forgot" to put in the 84!

[cnosil]

We have a situation where a golfer is a 23 handicap, shot an 84 and recorded a 91 for the match. I have his card so there is proof of what he scored. I know we can put in the 84 for him but should the 91 be taken or would this be adequate punishment for highballing his score? There's always the chance that he played twice on the same day and "forgot" to put in the 84!

Have you asked the golfer about the discrepancy? That should be the first course of action.

[PMookie]

Thank you very much for your answer.  I hadn't even thought about the Arkansas Golf Association.  I'm not looking to enter tourneys or anything like that.  From my perspective (still somewhat new to golf) a handicap seems to be the main measuring stick along side typical score and I just want to see where I measure up.

I get my GHIN through the Louisiana Golf Association, via my public course here. $25 a year..... I upload every score to the GHIN app, so easy.


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[DaveP043]

2 hours ago, highscore said:

We have a situation where a golfer is a 23 handicap, shot an 84 and recorded a 91 for the match. I have his card so there is proof of what he scored. I know we can put in the 84 for him but should the 91 be taken or would this be adequate punishment for highballing his score? There's always the chance that he played twice on the same day and "forgot" to put in the 84!

 

38 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Have you asked the golfer about the discrepancy? That should be the first course of action.

if I'm on the committee, I'd probably post the 84 for him, and then ask him to explain.  if he did play twice, leave the 91, otherwise delete it.  the committee should regularly review his score, and could consider taking more severe actions if he cant provide a decent explanation.

[Stuka44]

Amish Jason:  I am brand new to this site and just saw your post,  realize that your post is older, but here is my two cents.  If you are not going to be playing in a club championship, or USGA sanctioned events any time soon,  go to "Free Golf Tracker", and you can create an account for free.  You can enter slope, rating, tee boxes, and all of the information about the courses you play if they were not entered by another member.  You then can enter your rounds, drives in fairway, putts, up and downs, and it breaks down your stats for you  and it calculates a "handicap index"  I'm sure its not "OFFICIAL" by USGA standards, but I do know that as you enter better scores it goes down, and when some good ones get knocked off as you replace your last 20 rounds with new worse ones it goes up.  For comparison purposes between you and your buddies I believe it would be perfect, and free.

[AmishJason]

10 minutes ago, stuka44 said:

Amish Jason:  I am brand new to this site and just saw your post,  realize that your post is older, but here is my two cents.  If you are not going to be playing in a club championship, or USGA sanctioned events any time soon,  go to "Free Golf Tracker", and you can create an account for free.  You can enter slope, rating, tee boxes, and all of the information about the courses you play if they were not entered by another member.  You then can enter your rounds, drives in fairway, putts, up and downs, and it breaks down your stats for you  and it calculates a "handicap index"  I'm sure its not "OFFICIAL" by USGA standards, but I do know that as you enter better scores it goes down, and when some good ones get knocked off as you replace your last 20 rounds with new worse ones it goes up.  For comparison purposes between you and your buddies I believe it would be perfect, and free.

Good to know.  As of right now I'm satisfied by the ASGA/USGA GHIN app.  I recently got a set of Arcoss sensors and I am letting them track the individual shots, but for adding penalties and trusting my final score, I still rely solely on myself.

 

Also, welcome to the community!  

 

P.S. with the new Strokes Gained metrics from Arcoss I am now tracking my handicap vs my current goal.  

[chisag]

... Fwiw and just my personal opinion, I have always disliked the handicaps system for a representation of how you "normally" play. It is a system that does it's best to deter cheating which does not lend itself to an accurate assessment of how you actually play. Only using the 10 best of your last 20 scores can give a wide variation to different players. As an example, the two courses I play most often are both links style and have plenty of light rough both left and right of the fairways. Since driving is the weakest part of my game, these courses play to my strength because I can almost always hit an iron into the green. It is not rare for me to hit around 6 fairways and 13 greens. If I were playing a tree lined course I would be punching out more and hitting less greens. There is plenty of water and some really tall heather for wayward tee shots but missing the fairway but only 5-10 yds is always safe and that is my typical miss. 

... The next problem is how wide a range of scores do you post? I have degenerative discs, 2 surgeries and some days my back feels pretty good and other days tight and restrictive. Playing to a +.04 index I can't say "my back is pretty tight today so it will be a struggle to break 76" because when I do shoot a 77 it is just thrown out for index purposes. It is just inherently unfair to a wide range of players imo. If you have been playing awhile an have no physical limitations and shoot near the same score most of the time, the handicaps system works. 

... So my point is the system is put in place to make wagering/competing more equitable but does not necessarily provide a fair representation of how you play on any given day. I have always felt like adding all your scores and dividing by rounds is much more accurate. If you have a blow up day or play out of your mind, one round will not skew your index but dropping your 10 worst scores can skew your index to a number that is only representative of how you play 50% of the time.  

[2puttbogey]

Going to resurrect this thread for a handicap question instead of starting a new one.  The guy I play with hits multiple shots from the same spot after he hits the ball he’s playing for score and handicap. It wouldn’t be a big deal, and really isn’t, but it is done after nearly every “bad” shot or when he needs to “figure something out “. It will be 2 sometimes 3 shots from the same place, go to the original ball and repeat if the shot or swing was not “good”. To me it doesn’t seem right if you’re going to post for handicap, even if you’re only scoring the original ball. Any insight would be appreciated.