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Whats keeping you from playing super game improvement irons????


Zen Snake

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I *try* and practice all 9 shots when I go to the range. I can usually make that happen with GI irons, but not with SGI. In that sense, they are too forgiving. Of course, that might help me keep the ball in the fairway more and not need a high fade to get around a tree...

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Just now, jddaigneault said:

I *try* and practice all 9 shots when I go to the range. I can usually make that happen with GI irons, but not with SGI. In that sense, they are too forgiving. Of course, that might help me keep the ball in the fairway more and not need a high fade to get around a tree...

Hi what are you 9 shots and how do you hit them? obviously high fade is one of them.

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Just now, jddaigneault said:

I *try* and practice all 9 shots when I go to the range. I can usually make that happen with GI irons, but not with SGI. In that sense, they are too forgiving. Of course, that might help me keep the ball in the fairway more and not need a high fade to get around a tree...

I practiced all "9" shots on a single par 5 on Saturday.  It can be done with SGI irons.

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Hi what are you 9 shots and how do you hit them? obviously high fade is one of them.

I would assume the Standard 9 shot window:
Low draw, low straight, low fade,
Mid draw, mid straight, mid fade,
High draw, high straight, high fade.

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Looks are in the eye of the beholder, I like them better, how can you say worse dispersion, that is one of the top reasons for GI and SGI irons next to distance (but vice a versa to me), also easier to get in the air i.e. flight.

Dispersion can also be long and short and with GI irons I am all over the map. I need a 7 iron that flies 175 on average not sometimes 190 which has been my experience with GI clubs. Loved my Rogue Pros at address and feel, hated the results.


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3 minutes ago, Jmikecpa said:


Dispersion can also be long and short and with GI irons I am all over the map. I need a 7 iron that flies 175 on average not sometimes 190 which has been my experience with GI clubs. Loved my Rogue Pros at address and feel, hated the results.


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reason I have not upgraded from my old clubs they are consistent yardages if hit well. So is SGI more consistent than GI for yardages? Which has more hot spots? Thought both of these were to eliminate hot spots, if not the why bother buying them? The only distance argument is total BS to me.

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reason I have not upgraded from my old clubs they are consistent yardages if hit well. So is SGI more consistent than GI for yardages? Which has more hot spots? Thought both of these were to eliminate hot spots, if not the why bother buying them? The only distance argument is total BS to me.

Depends on the player. For me GI and SGI irons don’t allow me to control spin and launch well enough which is why I don’t play them. For other players these may work great and that is why they make different style golf clubs. Most people would struggle to hit what I have in my bag and I would say the same for me and other people’s bags.


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9 minutes ago, viking said:

reason I have not upgraded from my old clubs they are consistent yardages if hit well. So is SGI more consistent than GI for yardages? Which has more hot spots? Thought both of these were to eliminate hot spots, if not the why bother buying them? The only distance argument is total BS to me.

Hot spots are something that happens with some sgi or gi offerings. It was a knock on the calllaway apex cf16 and for some the original p790s. I had the issue in cf16 but not in the p790 and didn’t notice it in testing i500 on the range. What many consider hot spots is really someone not used to hitting center or compressing the ball on a regular then that one time they do the ball goes further.

consistent yardages is more on the golfer and where they may contact and if they contact the same spot consistently. I have played blades up thru a gi set over the last 20ish years and consistency of distance isn’t an issue in my experience. 

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5 hours ago, viking said:

Looks are in the eye of the beholder, I like them better, how can you say worse dispersion, that is one of the top reasons for GI and SGI irons next to distance (but vice a versa to me), also easier to get in the air i.e. flight.

Yes looks are in the eye of the beholder, But ultimately this is a thread about why I would or wouldn't play them. I can say worse dispersion because of several reason. The main one is front to back dispersion. I find that these type clubs with the thinner “hot face” irons and lower spin rates just aren’t  as consistent with front to back dispersion. Lastly, when i say flighted, to me that doesnt mean getting the ball up. It means flighting the ball higher or lower than normal on demand. As mentioned, by the “9 shots”,  can a SGI club do all nine shots and flight the ball? Yea its possible... but not nearly as easy and predictable.

Edited by Moose4282
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5 hours ago, viking said:

Hi what are you 9 shots and how do you hit them? obviously high fade is one of them.

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Thank you very much for the above chart. Much appreciated. Excellent doing it right and left handed.You should be a moderator or have a YouTube channel. Seriously no one does what you did so clearly, concisely and completely.

So cut and fade and slice are the same for a lefty? Slice is unintentional and fade is intentional. What exactly is different with the word cut?

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1 hour ago, viking said:

Thank you very much for the above chart. Much appreciated. Excellent doing it right and left handed.You should be a moderator or have a YouTube channel. Seriously no one does what you did so clearly, concisely and completely.

So cut and fade and slice are the same for a lefty? Slice is unintentional and fade is intentional. What exactly is different with the word cut?

Cut/fade/slice are essentially all the same thing- slice generally has a negative connotation ,usually more curve, and generally unintended. But you could technically hit a giant slice intentionally around a dogleg and call it a fade lol. 

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Love my Mavrik Max SGI irons. They are pretty big to look at and do have a lot of offset, but not super loft jacked. Feel so smooth when I make good contact with the Nippon 950 Neo shafts. And they do let me know when I hit it off the toe, definitely can still feel it.

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For me, it was because for a long time I wanted to play forged irons and wanted to play irons that were beautiful.  Ive lately come around to the power that clubs that are more forgiving and give me more distance can have.

Having a beautiful set of forged blades in the bag is a wonderful thing but when you struggle to break 100 with them and hit them 10 yards per club shorter per club because you cant hit the middle of the face, is it worth it?

I think that something that a lot of people overlook with modern SGI irons when they talk about jacked lofts and how the clubs arent actually that much longer than older clubs are is forgivness.  Yes, if you hit the center of the face on both clubs, the new ones arent THAT much longer but when you look at offcenter hits, the modern SGI irons have a considerable advantage.

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So, oddly, swing speed, and nature of impact with my swing.  I don't have an ego on this, I just want to play golf and keep the ball in the fairway. The problem for me is launch angle.  No matter what shaft, or SGI I've tried, we cannot get the launch angle down to even remotely reasonable numbers.  For example, right now, I am playing a blade ( Hogan Ft Worth's ).  My 4i is a 210yd club, that launches high enough, and with high enough spin rates, that my carry is 195+, and unless it is landing on a hard green it's just not going to roll out, and that's with a setup that was tweaked to try and get launch angles down, and a swing rebuild to get to a point where I hit down on the ball, but still...  I'll keep trying, because I could really use the forgiveness, particularly when I start to fatigue. 

 

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I will swing anything that helps my game, even if it means going back to a square driver. Have two of them in the garage in case the SIM Max doesn't behave.

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... This fits right in with my personal belief that everyone should play the most forgiving irons they can effectively play. For Tiger effectively means MB's because he shapes every shot both high low as well as left right. For me it means a players iron because I control the trajectory on the majority of my shots. I play in windy conditions and 1/2 or 3/4 shots are pretty normal as well as flighting my short irons. I can do that with GI and to some extent SGI irons but it is more difficult to pull off, and why make the game more difficult? For someone that wants to hit it high and straight a GI or SGI iron should be a no brainer. And of course the more you miss the center the more you need the forgiveness of a GI or SGI iron. 

... Ego should never enter into it, unless you don't care about score and just play for fun. I can play MB's and score pretty close to my P760's, especially on my good swing days. But on my bad swing days contact is not as precise and MB's may or may not hurt my scores, although there will definitely be some shots that would turn out much worse with my MB's than my 760's. That makes the 760's a no brainer for me because they give me every shot a MB can produce with the forgiveness a GI provides. 

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The short answer: Because I don't want to.

The long answer: On the distance side of things, the gapping of my bag as-is is almost exactly how I want it. Why should I crowd the long-end of my bag when I'm unlikely to pick up distance with the driver to allow for it? On forgiveness, I really don't have much trouble hitting the clubs I have, and I'd rather put in the work to harness a skill than allow tech to potentially mask my shortcomings. At the end of the day, it's how I enjoy the game. Shooting low scores is fun, but shooting low scores as a result of putting forth the effort to improve and achieving consistency on the course is infinitely more rewarding to me.

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On 4/22/2020 at 10:14 AM, LeftyRM7 said:

Looks and feel is not confidence inspiring for me and loft jacking is rampant. I whole heartedly agree with the MGS way BUT data is only one piece of the puzzle. Still have to know how to use and apply it to make you better, not live/die by it.

+1. I might be able to get over the looks if SGI irons didn’t feel like hitting the ball with a shovel even if you pure the shot. Some are better than others but I’ve yet to hit an SGI that felt decent, the Mizuno Hot Metals were the best to me so far. Cast irons have improved but they’re still don’t deliver the feel of a forged iron.

And I absolutely despise the loft jacking. It’s gotten to where you can’t buy what I consider traditional lofts without buying blades, and I’m not consistent enough to use blades. So I’m stuck with making a compromise if I want new irons.

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55 minutes ago, TR1PTIK said:

The short answer: Because I don't want to.

The long answer: On the distance side of things, the gapping of my bag as-is is almost exactly how I want it. Why should I crowd the long-end of my bag when I'm unlikely to pick up distance with the driver to allow for it? On forgiveness, I really don't have much trouble hitting the clubs I have, and I'd rather put in the work to harness a skill than allow tech to potentially mask my shortcomings. At the end of the day, it's how I enjoy the game. Shooting low scores is fun, but shooting low scores as a result of putting forth the effort to improve and achieving consistency on the course is infinitely more rewarding to me.

 

... There are no "crutches" when it comes to golf equipment. There are clubs that maximize your potential and clubs that don't. You won't find a baseball player using an infielders glove in the outfield because an outfielders glove is way too large and makes catching fly balls too easy. They don't use a 32" bat because a 35" bat makes it too easy to reach the outside of the plate.  I could easily make the argument it is just as demanding for great ball striker that plays to a + index to play SGI's as a high index poor ball striker to play MB's. Clubs are just tools of the game matched to your style of play to help you hit the best shots and shoot your lowest score. All clubs are a trade off of some kind. I have yet to read anyone say "I am a very good ball striker and like to work the ball with a high swing speed. I don't want my MB's to make the game easier, so I play the biggest SGI irons I can find to give me more of a challenge. They are harder to hit from thick rough, more difficult to flight low or work side to side and distance is not as consistent for me so why take the easy way out with MB's that mask my shortcomings when I can challenge myself with SGI's?" 😉

... That said it really is none of my business what you play and if you enjoy less tech and more skill while putting in max effort I nor anyone else should have any problem with that. Play what you enjoy for any reason, just don't make it sound like anyone is taking the easy way out by using more forgiving irons. There are many reason to play golf other than just shooting the lowest score. I have played with golfers that don't even keep score and those that throw and damage their clubs because they had a double bogie. It is a crazy game and the only constant is there is no constant. 

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
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30 minutes ago, chisag said:

Play what you enjoy for any reason, just don't make it sound like anyone is taking the easy way out by using more forgiving irons. There are many reason to play golf other than just shooting the lowest score.

I'm sorry you interpreted my post that way. I wasn't trying to throw shade at anyone with my response, but simply explaining how I feel about it in relation to my game. I don't care what clubs other people play or why they play them - it's none of my business and to each their own.

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Fairway Wood: :mizuno-small: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
Hybrid: :mizuno-small: CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
Irons: :bridgestone-small: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100
Wedges: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200
Putter: :odyssey-small: Tri-Hot 5k Two 34"
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Ball: Maxfli Tour

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... LOL, we are even and sorry you interpreted my post that way because I didn't think you were throwing shade at anyone, so I worded it poorly. I interpreted it as your personal opinion and how you chose your equipment. But considering this thread is about SGI irons, it would be natural for some to interpret your response as SGI irons mask shortcomings. I edited my response to more accurately reflect that. 👍

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
                  :taylormade-small:  DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r 
Irons:       :titleist-small:         '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :cobra-small:  Sport-60 33" 
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour

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1 hour ago, chisag said:

... LOL, we are even and sorry you interpreted my post that way because I didn't think you were throwing shade at anyone, so I worded it poorly. I interpreted it as your personal opinion and how you chose your equipment. But considering this thread is about SGI irons, it would be natural for some to interpret your response as SGI irons mask shortcomings. I edited my response to more accurately reflect that. 👍

All well and good. I understand how it could have come across that way, but did want to clarify that is not what I intended. I tried to keep my post brief which left some room for interpretation. 

Driver: :mizuno-small: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S
Fairway Wood: :mizuno-small: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
Hybrid: :mizuno-small: CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
Irons: :bridgestone-small: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100
Wedges: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200
Putter: :odyssey-small: Tri-Hot 5k Two 34"
Bag: :titleist-small: Players 5 Stand Bag
Ball: Maxfli Tour

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Two reasons I do not use them....

1. Do not like the way they look when looking down on them.

2. Do not like the way they feel - most I have tried feel a bit dead.

I am currently on an 20.2 handicap but until I got ill was playing blades so that may be the reason behind the reasons.

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Callaway Epic Flash 9 Degree

Callaway Epic Flash 3 wood 15 Degree

Callaway Apex 21 Hybrid 19 Degree

Callaway Steelhead Pro 4-AW Irons

Cleveland 54 Degree Wedge Steel Shaft

Recoil Graphite Shafts in all Callaway

Cobra Vintage Series Stingray 40

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5 hours ago, chisag said:

... This fits right in with my personal belief that everyone should play the most forgiving irons they can effectively play. For Tiger effectively means MB's because he shapes every shot both high low as well as left right. For me it means a players iron because I control the trajectory on the majority of my shots. I play in windy conditions and 1/2 or 3/4 shots are pretty normal as well as flighting my short irons. I can do that with GI and to some extent SGI irons but it is more difficult to pull off, and why make the game more difficult? For someone that wants to hit it high and straight a GI or SGI iron should be a no brainer. And of course the more you miss the center the more you need the forgiveness of a GI or SGI iron. 

... Ego should never enter into it, unless you don't care about score and just play for fun. I can play MB's and score pretty close to my P760's, especially on my good swing days. But on my bad swing days contact is not as precise and MB's may or may not hurt my scores, although there will definitely be some shots that would turn out much worse with my MB's than my 760's. That makes the 760's a no brainer for me because they give me every shot a MB can produce with the forgiveness a GI provides. 

Being 74 I need all the help I can  get. Constantly play in windy conditions. Play  Ping G700s with Alta senior flex shafts. Tight dispersions and the ball goes high, straight and long. Works for me.

Retired Army aviator. 2 Vietnam tours flying Hueys.

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  • 1 month later...
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I game Ping G2s because they work. 

I do hit the ball higher than I like with them but my 8i goes 145-150, so it's good enough for me. 

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