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Whats keeping you from playing super game improvement irons????

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5 hours ago, viking said:

Hi what are you 9 shots and how do you hit them? obviously high fade is one of them.

695DBBB7-0161-4A29-B5AF-118971A45682.jpeg.ea8abeee7f2864db4fb7e6956a97ad18.jpeg

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P790s/M5 Driver/F9 3wood/F9 hybrid/MG2 wedges/Ardmore putter

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Thank you very much for the above chart. Much appreciated. Excellent doing it right and left handed.You should be a moderator or have a YouTube channel. Seriously no one does what you did so clearly, concisely and completely.

So cut and fade and slice are the same for a lefty? Slice is unintentional and fade is intentional. What exactly is different with the word cut?

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1 hour ago, viking said:

Thank you very much for the above chart. Much appreciated. Excellent doing it right and left handed.You should be a moderator or have a YouTube channel. Seriously no one does what you did so clearly, concisely and completely.

So cut and fade and slice are the same for a lefty? Slice is unintentional and fade is intentional. What exactly is different with the word cut?

Cut/fade/slice are essentially all the same thing- slice generally has a negative connotation ,usually more curve, and generally unintended. But you could technically hit a giant slice intentionally around a dogleg and call it a fade lol. 

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Love my Mavrik Max SGI irons. They are pretty big to look at and do have a lot of offset, but not super loft jacked. Feel so smooth when I make good contact with the Nippon 950 Neo shafts. And they do let me know when I hit it off the toe, definitely can still feel it.

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Follow my golf journey to break into the 80s

Current MGS Tester for the Fujikura Motore X Shaft

Fujikura and Nippon fan. Connoisseur of grips.

Updated 5/26/2020
Driver:taylormade-small:SIM Max 10.5 - Fujikura Motore X F3 5S
Hybrids:taylormade-small: SIM Max 3H, 4H - Nippon Zelos 7 Hybrid S
Irons:callaway-small:Mavrik Max 5 - AW - Nippon Neo 950GH S
Wedges: :cleveland-small: CBX 2 54, CBX Full Face 58 - Nippon Modus 105 Wedge flex
Putter:  :scotty-small: Squareback 1 - Sense Grips S1

Current Putter Collection:EVNROLL: ER10 Outback,  :bettinardi-small: 2017 Studio Stock 3, :cameron-small: La Costa 1st 500, :scotty-small: Squareback 1 (2008)
 

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On 4/27/2020 at 5:58 PM, viking said:

👍🧴😷

Why say cut? 🩹

👍

I have always considered cut just another term for fade, but a few guys I play with say that a cut is more than a fade and less than a slice. 🤔

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For me, it was because for a long time I wanted to play forged irons and wanted to play irons that were beautiful.  Ive lately come around to the power that clubs that are more forgiving and give me more distance can have.

Having a beautiful set of forged blades in the bag is a wonderful thing but when you struggle to break 100 with them and hit them 10 yards per club shorter per club because you cant hit the middle of the face, is it worth it?

I think that something that a lot of people overlook with modern SGI irons when they talk about jacked lofts and how the clubs arent actually that much longer than older clubs are is forgivness.  Yes, if you hit the center of the face on both clubs, the new ones arent THAT much longer but when you look at offcenter hits, the modern SGI irons have a considerable advantage.

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Whats in my Sun Mountain 2.5+ stand bag?:

Woods: Tommy Armour Atomic 10.5*

Hybrid: Tommy Armour 845 19*

Irons: Tommy Armour 845 6, 8 and PW

Wedges: Tommy Armour VCG 56*

Putter: Tommy Armour 303 Milled Series Serrano

Ball: Maxfli Tour X

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So, oddly, swing speed, and nature of impact with my swing.  I don't have an ego on this, I just want to play golf and keep the ball in the fairway. The problem for me is launch angle.  No matter what shaft, or SGI I've tried, we cannot get the launch angle down to even remotely reasonable numbers.  For example, right now, I am playing a blade ( Hogan Ft Worth's ).  My 4i is a 210yd club, that launches high enough, and with high enough spin rates, that my carry is 195+, and unless it is landing on a hard green it's just not going to roll out, and that's with a setup that was tweaked to try and get launch angles down, and a swing rebuild to get to a point where I hit down on the ball, but still...  I'll keep trying, because I could really use the forgiveness, particularly when I start to fatigue. 

 


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I will swing anything that helps my game, even if it means going back to a square driver. Have two of them in the garage in case the SIM Max doesn't behave.

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Follow my golf journey to break into the 80s

Current MGS Tester for the Fujikura Motore X Shaft

Fujikura and Nippon fan. Connoisseur of grips.

Updated 5/26/2020
Driver:taylormade-small:SIM Max 10.5 - Fujikura Motore X F3 5S
Hybrids:taylormade-small: SIM Max 3H, 4H - Nippon Zelos 7 Hybrid S
Irons:callaway-small:Mavrik Max 5 - AW - Nippon Neo 950GH S
Wedges: :cleveland-small: CBX 2 54, CBX Full Face 58 - Nippon Modus 105 Wedge flex
Putter:  :scotty-small: Squareback 1 - Sense Grips S1

Current Putter Collection:EVNROLL: ER10 Outback,  :bettinardi-small: 2017 Studio Stock 3, :cameron-small: La Costa 1st 500, :scotty-small: Squareback 1 (2008)
 

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... This fits right in with my personal belief that everyone should play the most forgiving irons they can effectively play. For Tiger effectively means MB's because he shapes every shot both high low as well as left right. For me it means a players iron because I control the trajectory on the majority of my shots. I play in windy conditions and 1/2 or 3/4 shots are pretty normal as well as flighting my short irons. I can do that with GI and to some extent SGI irons but it is more difficult to pull off, and why make the game more difficult? For someone that wants to hit it high and straight a GI or SGI iron should be a no brainer. And of course the more you miss the center the more you need the forgiveness of a GI or SGI iron. 

... Ego should never enter into it, unless you don't care about score and just play for fun. I can play MB's and score pretty close to my P760's, especially on my good swing days. But on my bad swing days contact is not as precise and MB's may or may not hurt my scores, although there will definitely be some shots that would turn out much worse with my MB's than my 760's. That makes the 760's a no brainer for me because they give me every shot a MB can produce with the forgiveness a GI provides. 

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Driver:   Cobra Speedzone Xtreme 9* ... Tensei Pro Orange 60r
Fw wood: Cobra Speedzone 14.5* ... Atmos TS Blue 75s
Utility:   TaylorMade RBZ Tour Hy ... Matrix Altus 85 hy
Irons:    4-Gw Titleist T100-S ... Kuro Kage 105 Tini s-flex
              4-pw TaylorMade P760 ... Recoil Prototype 95 r-flex
Wedges:  SM6 52* F Grind /SM7D & SM8M 58* ... Recoil 110s
Putter:  Newport 2.5 at 33"
Ball:  TaylorMade TP5x

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The short answer: Because I don't want to.

The long answer: On the distance side of things, the gapping of my bag as-is is almost exactly how I want it. Why should I crowd the long-end of my bag when I'm unlikely to pick up distance with the driver to allow for it? On forgiveness, I really don't have much trouble hitting the clubs I have, and I'd rather put in the work to harness a skill than allow tech to potentially mask my shortcomings. At the end of the day, it's how I enjoy the game. Shooting low scores is fun, but shooting low scores as a result of putting forth the effort to improve and achieving consistency on the course is infinitely more rewarding to me.

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Driver: Mizuno ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S
Fairway Wood: Mizuno ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
Hyrbrid: Mizuno CLK 19* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
Irons: Nike Vapor Pro Combo (4-PW) Dynamic Gold Pro S300
Wedges: Bridgestone Tour B XW-1 50*, 54*, & 58* Nippon Modus 3 105
Putter: Scotty Cameron Futura 6m 33"
Ball: Bridgestone Tour B XS
Bag: 2017 Titleist Players 5 Stand Bag

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On 4/22/2020 at 10:14 AM, LeftyRM7 said:

Looks and feel is not confidence inspiring for me and loft jacking is rampant. I whole heartedly agree with the MGS way BUT data is only one piece of the puzzle. Still have to know how to use and apply it to make you better, not live/die by it.

+1. I might be able to get over the looks if SGI irons didn’t feel like hitting the ball with a shovel even if you pure the shot. Some are better than others but I’ve yet to hit an SGI that felt decent, the Mizuno Hot Metals were the best to me so far. Cast irons have improved but they’re still don’t deliver the feel of a forged iron.

And I absolutely despise the loft jacking. It’s gotten to where you can’t buy what I consider traditional lofts without buying blades, and I’m not consistent enough to use blades. So I’m stuck with making a compromise if I want new irons.

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  • Callaway Rogue 10.5° 9.5°D & 3W
  • Mizuno MP-20 HMB 3i 19°, JPX900 Forged 4-GW, S18 56.10
  • Evnroll ER5B (replaced ER2)
  • and Mizuno CLK 3H 19° OR Mizuno S18 60.06
  • Snell MTB-X (replacing Black)

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55 minutes ago, TR1PTIK said:

The short answer: Because I don't want to.

The long answer: On the distance side of things, the gapping of my bag as-is is almost exactly how I want it. Why should I crowd the long-end of my bag when I'm unlikely to pick up distance with the driver to allow for it? On forgiveness, I really don't have much trouble hitting the clubs I have, and I'd rather put in the work to harness a skill than allow tech to potentially mask my shortcomings. At the end of the day, it's how I enjoy the game. Shooting low scores is fun, but shooting low scores as a result of putting forth the effort to improve and achieving consistency on the course is infinitely more rewarding to me.

 

... There are no "crutches" when it comes to golf equipment. There are clubs that maximize your potential and clubs that don't. You won't find a baseball player using an infielders glove in the outfield because an outfielders glove is way too large and makes catching fly balls too easy. They don't use a 32" bat because a 35" bat makes it too easy to reach the outside of the plate.  I could easily make the argument it is just as demanding for great ball striker that plays to a + index to play SGI's as a high index poor ball striker to play MB's. Clubs are just tools of the game matched to your style of play to help you hit the best shots and shoot your lowest score. All clubs are a trade off of some kind. I have yet to read anyone say "I am a very good ball striker and like to work the ball with a high swing speed. I don't want my MB's to make the game easier, so I play the biggest SGI irons I can find to give me more of a challenge. They are harder to hit from thick rough, more difficult to flight low or work side to side and distance is not as consistent for me so why take the easy way out with MB's that mask my shortcomings when I can challenge myself with SGI's?" 😉

... That said it really is none of my business what you play and if you enjoy less tech and more skill while putting in max effort I nor anyone else should have any problem with that. Play what you enjoy for any reason, just don't make it sound like anyone is taking the easy way out by using more forgiving irons. There are many reason to play golf other than just shooting the lowest score. I have played with golfers that don't even keep score and those that throw and damage their clubs because they had a double bogie. It is a crazy game and the only constant is there is no constant. 

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Driver:   Cobra Speedzone Xtreme 9* ... Tensei Pro Orange 60r
Fw wood: Cobra Speedzone 14.5* ... Atmos TS Blue 75s
Utility:   TaylorMade RBZ Tour Hy ... Matrix Altus 85 hy
Irons:    4-Gw Titleist T100-S ... Kuro Kage 105 Tini s-flex
              4-pw TaylorMade P760 ... Recoil Prototype 95 r-flex
Wedges:  SM6 52* F Grind /SM7D & SM8M 58* ... Recoil 110s
Putter:  Newport 2.5 at 33"
Ball:  TaylorMade TP5x

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30 minutes ago, chisag said:

Play what you enjoy for any reason, just don't make it sound like anyone is taking the easy way out by using more forgiving irons. There are many reason to play golf other than just shooting the lowest score.

I'm sorry you interpreted my post that way. I wasn't trying to throw shade at anyone with my response, but simply explaining how I feel about it in relation to my game. I don't care what clubs other people play or why they play them - it's none of my business and to each their own.

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Driver: Mizuno ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S
Fairway Wood: Mizuno ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
Hyrbrid: Mizuno CLK 19* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
Irons: Nike Vapor Pro Combo (4-PW) Dynamic Gold Pro S300
Wedges: Bridgestone Tour B XW-1 50*, 54*, & 58* Nippon Modus 3 105
Putter: Scotty Cameron Futura 6m 33"
Ball: Bridgestone Tour B XS
Bag: 2017 Titleist Players 5 Stand Bag

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... LOL, we are even and sorry you interpreted my post that way because I didn't think you were throwing shade at anyone, so I worded it poorly. I interpreted it as your personal opinion and how you chose your equipment. But considering this thread is about SGI irons, it would be natural for some to interpret your response as SGI irons mask shortcomings. I edited my response to more accurately reflect that. 👍

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Driver:   Cobra Speedzone Xtreme 9* ... Tensei Pro Orange 60r
Fw wood: Cobra Speedzone 14.5* ... Atmos TS Blue 75s
Utility:   TaylorMade RBZ Tour Hy ... Matrix Altus 85 hy
Irons:    4-Gw Titleist T100-S ... Kuro Kage 105 Tini s-flex
              4-pw TaylorMade P760 ... Recoil Prototype 95 r-flex
Wedges:  SM6 52* F Grind /SM7D & SM8M 58* ... Recoil 110s
Putter:  Newport 2.5 at 33"
Ball:  TaylorMade TP5x

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1 hour ago, chisag said:

... LOL, we are even and sorry you interpreted my post that way because I didn't think you were throwing shade at anyone, so I worded it poorly. I interpreted it as your personal opinion and how you chose your equipment. But considering this thread is about SGI irons, it would be natural for some to interpret your response as SGI irons mask shortcomings. I edited my response to more accurately reflect that. 👍

All well and good. I understand how it could have come across that way, but did want to clarify that is not what I intended. I tried to keep my post brief which left some room for interpretation. 

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Driver: Mizuno ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S
Fairway Wood: Mizuno ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
Hyrbrid: Mizuno CLK 19* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
Irons: Nike Vapor Pro Combo (4-PW) Dynamic Gold Pro S300
Wedges: Bridgestone Tour B XW-1 50*, 54*, & 58* Nippon Modus 3 105
Putter: Scotty Cameron Futura 6m 33"
Ball: Bridgestone Tour B XS
Bag: 2017 Titleist Players 5 Stand Bag

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Posted (edited)

Two reasons I do not use them....

1. Do not like the way they look when looking down on them.

2. Do not like the way they feel - most I have tried feel a bit dead.

I am currently on an 20.2 handicap but until I got ill was playing blades so that may be the reason behind the reasons.

Edited by Firebird

Callaway Big Bertha Fusion Driver 10.5 Degree

Callaway Big Bertha Fusion 3 wood 15 Degree

Callaway Epic Hybrid 18 Degree

Callaway Steelhead Pro 3-AW Irons

Cleveland 48 and 54 Degree Wedges Steel Shaft

Recoil Graphite Shafts in all Callaway Clubs

Callaway Big Bertha Putter - for when it is wet

La Jolla Putter with Flat Car Grip.

Preferred ball - Anything that is free, if not Titlist Pro V1x 

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5 hours ago, chisag said:

... This fits right in with my personal belief that everyone should play the most forgiving irons they can effectively play. For Tiger effectively means MB's because he shapes every shot both high low as well as left right. For me it means a players iron because I control the trajectory on the majority of my shots. I play in windy conditions and 1/2 or 3/4 shots are pretty normal as well as flighting my short irons. I can do that with GI and to some extent SGI irons but it is more difficult to pull off, and why make the game more difficult? For someone that wants to hit it high and straight a GI or SGI iron should be a no brainer. And of course the more you miss the center the more you need the forgiveness of a GI or SGI iron. 

... Ego should never enter into it, unless you don't care about score and just play for fun. I can play MB's and score pretty close to my P760's, especially on my good swing days. But on my bad swing days contact is not as precise and MB's may or may not hurt my scores, although there will definitely be some shots that would turn out much worse with my MB's than my 760's. That makes the 760's a no brainer for me because they give me every shot a MB can produce with the forgiveness a GI provides. 

Being 74 I need all the help I can  get. Constantly play in windy conditions. Play  Ping G700s with Alta senior flex shafts. Tight dispersions and the ball goes high, straight and long. Works for me.

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I game Ping G2s because they work. 

I do hit the ball higher than I like with them but my 8i goes 145-150, so it's good enough for me. 

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