Stronger Lofts - is this a Good or Bad Thing

[Grand Stranded]

10 minutes ago, Moose4282 said:

Bingo

Meh.

There was a time I carried 8 irons, 3-pw. I now carry 7, 5-aw. My 5 iron is way easier to hit than my old 3 iron, and goes the same distance with a higher trajectory.. Thanks to the modern lengths and lofts, that 7 club set also has better gapping at the top( no bunching at the 3 and 4), and middle of the set. The low end works just as well as the old set up. The only change is I now go 52* 58* instead of 54*60*.

Edited April 29, 2020 by Grand Stranded

[Moose4282]

2 minutes ago, Grand Stranded said:

Meh.

There was a time I carried 8 irons, 3-pw. I now carry 7, 5-aw. My 5 iron is way easier to hit than my old 3 iron, and goes the same distance. Thanks to the modern lengths and lofts, that 7 club set also has better gapping at the top, and middle of the set. The low end works just as well as the old set up. The only change is I now go 52* 58* instead of 54*60*.

But couldnt we simply just restamp those numbers? Your current five could be stamped to a 3... so what? Didn't change anything really. And you had to loft down in the wedges to make it work. Thats not anything revolutionary.

[THEZIPR23]

30 minutes ago, Moose4282 said:

Well if you bring in hot faced irons then ok. Those have their own seperate issues, but my statement was just comparing lofts by similarly designed irons

So now the equipment matters??

You probably should change your password on MGS. There is someone using your profile that says the equipment doesn't matter. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

7 minutes ago, THEZIPR23 said:

So now the equipment matters??

You probably should change your password on MGS. There is someone using your profile that says the equipment doesn't matter. 

Aren’t the majority of offerings in the gi and sgi space hot faced leading to ball speed in crease this need for the lofts that they are to make sure thy stay in the same launch window or is that just the player distance irons

[Moose4282]

30 minutes ago, THEZIPR23 said:

So now the equipment matters??

You probably should change your password on MGS. There is someone using your profile that says the equipment doesn't matter. 

I didnt say it didnt matter lmao. Comn man be reasonable.  

[Moose4282]

23 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Aren’t the majority of offerings in the gi and sgi space hot faced leading to ball speed in crease this need for the lofts that they are to make sure thy stay in the same launch window or is that just the player distance irons

No There are still quite a few GIs that arent hotfaced.  And no the stronger lofts are needed. You would just have a slightly higher launching iron vs a non hotfaced iron... which if you are SUPER slow, then ok, these are benefecial. For everyone else who has moderate to average speed and flips, these could be worse for you.

[RickyBobby_PR]

8 minutes ago, Moose4282 said:

No There are still quite a few GIs that arent hotfaced.  And no the stronger lofts are needed. You would just have a slightly higher launching iron vs a non hotfaced iron... which if you are SUPER slow, then ok, these are benefecial. For everyone else who has moderate to average speed and flips, these could be worse for you.

So they are beneficial for slow swing players but somehow manufacturers are deceiving golfers, it’s all marketing bs and all the other anti log jacking comments in here. 
 

sounds like the manufactures saw a gap in the market and filled it, consumers agreed and bought the product and continue to buy. Hmm 

[Moose4282]

19 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

So they are beneficial for slow swing players but somehow manufacturers are deceiving golfers, it’s all marketing bs and all the other anti log jacking comments in here. 
 

sounds like the manufactures saw a gap in the market and filled it, consumers agreed and bought the product and continue to buy. Hmm 

You continue to misquote me. Hot faced irons could be beneficial to slower players, but not the stronger lofts-thats the deception. At this point you have lost any ability to have a reasonable discussion. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

43 minutes ago, Moose4282 said:

You continue to misquote me. Hot faced irons could be beneficial to slower players, but not the stronger lofts-thats the deception. At this point you have lost any ability to have a reasonable discussion. 

You can’t have hot faced irons and not have stronger lofts. 

[FrogginBullfish]

Long past time to end this discussion. There's nothing to be gained from continuing.

[PMookie]

Long past time to end this discussion. There's nothing to be gained from continuing.

That happened at post #2.......


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[THEZIPR23]

9 minutes ago, PMookie said:

That happened at post #2.......


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Leave us alone. We are in lockdown and we can fight if we wanna. 

[GolfSpy_BNG]

That happened at post #2.......


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Man I almost made the cut!

Sent from my Moto Z3 Play using MyGolfSpy mobile app

[Grand Stranded]

2 hours ago, Moose4282 said:

No There are still quite a few GIs that arent hotfaced.  And no the stronger lofts are needed. You would just have a slightly higher launching iron vs a non hotfaced iron... which if you are SUPER slow, then ok, these are benefecial. For everyone else who has moderate to average speed and flips, these could be worse for you.

Serious question for you or anyone else knowledgeable enough about this stuff.

The hardest change I had to make in my golf swing was to stop "flipping"... It really was hard for me to learn how to hit down properly. Is there really a iron set designed in a way that it wouldn't punish flipping? 

Now THAT'S a club I would've bought LOL.

Edited April 30, 2020 by Grand Stranded

[Moose4282]

1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

You can’t have hot faced irons and not have stronger lofts. 

Lol yes you can... if they were weaker lofts they would just fly marginally higher than its same lofted counterpart....so what

[NRJyzr]

5 hours ago, Grand Stranded said:

...and they’re always started by a guy who’s still playing persimmon woods with a steel shaft or 30 or 40 year old irons. i’m convinced the problem is THEIR ego, not the guy who’s playing the strong lofts. They aren’t concerned about whether I “can hold a green”. They’re angry I reached it with two clubs less than them. I look at his set up and I’m not asking him what club he hit, why would I? He’s the one asking and getting annoyed about the club I pulled, not me. lol.

You want to play higher lofted irons? Fine, I have no problem with that. Most good players do. My clubs weren’t designed for them, they were designed for guys like me, who need that extra oomph, and can now play the same tees as my nephews and others their age because of the help they give me.

At 65 years old, I’ll play whatever clubs I like, as long as they’re legal. Guys like the OP who want to play their steel shafted persimmon drivers are the one’s with the ego problem if you ask me... they consider themselves “purists” and “guardians of the game.” If I could tell guys like him one thing, it would be, “don’t worry about what others buy or play, worry about your own game.”

Is this pointed at me?  LOL 

FWIW, the OP has Callaway Fusions in his bag.  

[NRJyzr]

5 hours ago, Dr Strangelove said:

I dont think the argument is whether the lofts are OK or not.  Who cares.  This being MGS, at least a subset of folks object to the marketing of the clubs. ie. "Cut the BS, we know the distance increase is just because you strengthened the lofts and lengthened the shafts", not because of the <insert> technology.

This is exactly it.  

It's right at the top of the page:  

[Grand Stranded]

Just now, NRJyzr said:

Is this pointed at me?  LOL 

FWIW, the OP has Callaway Fusions in his bag.  

EDIT to my first reply

I just double checked. You're the guy with that driver... now I have to go back and re read your posts, to see what you had to say. I thought that was the OPs bag. Damn, getting old isn't easy.

Edited April 30, 2020 by Grand Stranded

[NRJyzr]

9 hours ago, Grand Stranded said:

EDIT to my first reply

I just double checked. You're the guy with that driver... now I have to go back and re read your posts, to see what you had to say. I thought that was the OPs bag. Damn, getting old isn't easy.

Yep, I'm the guy with "that driver."      I have a few others that are somewhat similar.  I also have a King LTD, Fly-Z+, SuperDeep,  SLDR, Covert Tour 2.0, etc, with Motore Speeders, Black Ties, HZRDUS, RIP Alphas, even a couple ProtoPypes.

Your attempted characterization of me is certainly colorful.  Fairly inaccurate, though, LOL.  

If you care, or honestly, even if you don't, what's in my bag is there because I find them interesting to hit.  I'm playing them because it's how golf used to be played, and it's something I don't have in my background.  I didn't play persimmons in Ye Olde Days, largely because I began playing golf around the fall of 1998, after the start of the titanium era.  My Gateway Persimmon was a Louisville Smart Driver that was in the Miscellaneous Driver rack at 2nd Swing, and over time, I've picked up a few more here and there.

I don't hold the belief that what I'm doing is how golf *should* be played.  I just do it because it's interesting to me.  Every so often, I spend a couple months playing old drivers and fairways, right now is one of those.  At some point, I'll work my way through the last of my wound ball stash, another aspect of golf I largely missed due to my relatively late start.  Once they're gone, I'll move back to my Wilsons, Snells, and Kirklands.

It's also kind of interesting that I tend to hit the persimmons less offline than my modern sticks.  <shrug>

Eventually, my inner golf nerd will kick in and I'll dig out metal woods.  I've been thinking of going backwards there, also, for different reasons.  I have a couple Dynacraft Grand Limited drivers from the late 90s, might be fun to play them again, if only for the comedy factor.  They sound like a cowbell when you hit them.  LOL

[Middler]

19 hours ago, Dr Strangelove said:

I dont think the argument is whether the lofts are OK or not.  Who cares.  This being MGS, at least a subset of folks object to the marketing of the clubs. ie. "Cut the BS, we know the distance increase is just because you strengthened the lofts and lengthened the shafts", not because of the <insert> technology.

Exactly.

17 hours ago, FrogginBullfish said:

Long past time to end this discussion. There's nothing to be gained from continuing.

Agreed. I’ve posted too many times about this. I’ve given specific counter arguments over and over and almost no one addresses them directly to refute - they reply with another angle and avoid the specifics. Loft jacking won’t be reversed, we are all free to buy what we want - though you almost can’t buy a GI set that hasn’t been jacked any more. We agree to disagree and the sheeples are free to claim they hit further with their new 7 iron...even though they don’t at all.
 

Some clever marketing team should have removable sole stamps so buyers can change the numbers on the sole every year - but you’ll need a PW, GW, SW, LW, W5, W6, W7, W8 and you won’t need a 2, 3 or 4 insert. 5 will become endangered soon.

[Grand Stranded]

2 hours ago, NRJyzr said:

Yep, I'm the guy with "that driver."      I have a few others that are somewhat similar.  I also have a King LTD, Fly-Z+, SuperDeep,  SLDR, Covert Tour 2.0, etc, with Motore Speeders, Black Ties, HZRDUS, RIP Alphas, even a couple ProtoPypes.

Your attempted characterization of me is certainly colorful.  Fairly inaccurate, though, LOL.  

If you care, or honestly, even if you don't, what's in my bag is there because I find them interesting to hit.  I'm playing them because it's how golf used to be played, and it's something I don't have in my background.  I didn't play persimmons in Ye Olde Days, largely because I began playing golf around the fall of 1998, after the start of the titanium era.  My Gateway Persimmon was a Louisville Smart Driver that was in the Miscellaneous Driver rack at 2nd Swing, and over time, I've picked up a few more here and there.

I don't hold the belief that what I'm doing is how golf *should* be played.  I just do it because it's interesting to me.  Every so often, I spend a couple months playing old drivers and fairways, right now is one of those.  At some point, I'll work my way through the last of my wound ball stash, another aspect of golf I largely missed due to my relatively late start.  Once they're gone, I'll move back to my Wilsons, Snells, and Kirklands.

It's also kind of interesting that I tend to hit the persimmons less offline than my modern sticks.  <shrug>

Eventually, my inner golf nerd will kick in and I'll dig out metal woods.  I've been thinking of going backwards there, also, for different reasons.  I have a couple Dynacraft Grand Limited drivers from the late 90s, might be fun to play them again, if only for the comedy factor.  They sound like a cowbell when you hit them.  LOL

It sounds like you're more an admirer of classic clubs and someone who enjoys playing them for all the right reasons. My bad for judging your "book" by it's cover.

Good for you man. Golf should be fun, you seem to realize that. Enjoy yourself 

[NRJyzr]

1 hour ago, Grand Stranded said:

It sounds like you're more an admirer of classic clubs and someone who enjoys playing them for all the right reasons. My bad for judging your "book" by it's cover.

Good for you man. Golf should be fun, you seem to realize that. Enjoy yourself 

No worries, dude.  

The hard part is that I'm also a nerd, and the tech appeals to me.  I think adjustable clubs are a godsend, if only for the ability to reshaft with a wrench, instead of a torch and shaft puller.  It's also a slippery slope.  

[Moose4282]

9 hours ago, NRJyzr said:

Yep, I'm the guy with "that driver."      I have a few others that are somewhat similar.  I also have a King LTD, Fly-Z+, SuperDeep,  SLDR, Covert Tour 2.0, etc, with Motore Speeders, Black Ties, HZRDUS, RIP Alphas, even a couple ProtoPypes.

Your attempted characterization of me is certainly colorful.  Fairly inaccurate, though, LOL.  

If you care, or honestly, even if you don't, what's in my bag is there because I find them interesting to hit.  I'm playing them because it's how golf used to be played, and it's something I don't have in my background.  I didn't play persimmons in Ye Olde Days, largely because I began playing golf around the fall of 1998, after the start of the titanium era.  My Gateway Persimmon was a Louisville Smart Driver that was in the Miscellaneous Driver rack at 2nd Swing, and over time, I've picked up a few more here and there.

I don't hold the belief that what I'm doing is how golf *should* be played.  I just do it because it's interesting to me.  Every so often, I spend a couple months playing old drivers and fairways, right now is one of those.  At some point, I'll work my way through the last of my wound ball stash, another aspect of golf I largely missed due to my relatively late start.  Once they're gone, I'll move back to my Wilsons, Snells, and Kirklands.

It's also kind of interesting that I tend to hit the persimmons less offline than my modern sticks.  <shrug>

Eventually, my inner golf nerd will kick in and I'll dig out metal woods.  I've been thinking of going backwards there, also, for different reasons.  I have a couple Dynacraft Grand Limited drivers from the late 90s, might be fun to play them again, if only for the comedy factor.  They sound like a cowbell when you hit them.  LOL

I started playint around the same time as you... you should pick up a titleist dci starship 3 wood.... one of my first “name brand” clubs. The sound that thing made was incredible!

[NRJyzr]

2 hours ago, Moose4282 said:

I started playint around the same time as you... you should pick up a titleist dci starship 3 wood.... one of my first “name brand” clubs. The sound that thing made was incredible!

Interesting, I didn't know there might be others in that same zipcode.

I'm afraid I can't do Titleist, though.  Balls, gloves, clubs, just can't.  It's a thing with me.   

[Firebird]

On 4/25/2020 at 12:43 AM, DaveP043 said:

I'm not sure this is really the case.  Yes, the 4-iron has less loft than it had before, but the technology has made it easier to get the ball in the air, and has improved forgiveness when compared to those old 2 or 3 irons.  Again, I'm speaking theoretically, but I'll get a real experience when my T200s arrive.

I actually think that part of the reason for stronger lofts is all in the head. Many of the golfers I play with regularly hated their 3-4 irons as they found them hard to hit however they loved their 5-6 irons. When they changed clubs they were amazed how far they hit the 5 iron. Yes, the technology helped and yes they most probably had no idea that the loft had changed but at the end of the day, in their mind it is a 5 iron and they were confident of hitting it well. BTW they all have ended up with 3 and 4 equivalent Hybrids which they also hit ok.

[ZenGolfer]

On 4/29/2020 at 2:40 PM, Middler said:

You're right - I meant the driver is the only club where MORE distance matters. Thanks.

and I still think youre wrong about that.  Distance matters with ALL clubs, as long as you can control it.

[ZenGolfer]

Heres an interesting watch.  I think that one thing that people forget when it comes to jacked lofts is that its not so much that the newer clubs are longer.  Theyre actually pretty comparabe on center strikes.  The real advantage comes in when you miss the center of the clubface.  The old clubs penalized you much more when you missed the middle.  With new  clubs, especially the ones with jacked lofts, you can be all over the clubface and still get pretty good ballflight.

[NRJyzr]

1 hour ago, Pingistheanser said:

Heres an interesting watch.  I think that one thing that people forget when it comes to jacked lofts is that its not so much that the newer clubs are longer.  Theyre actually pretty comparabe on center strikes.  The real advantage comes in when you miss the center of the clubface.  The old clubs penalized you much more when you missed the middle.  With new  clubs, especially the ones with jacked lofts, you can be all over the clubface and still get pretty good ballflight.

 

That's actually an unrelated point.  There's nothing with the MOI of a G710 in older irons, but there are a fair number of older irons with an MOI higher than something like the Eye2.

[Moose4282]

4 hours ago, NRJyzr said:

Interesting, I didn't know there might be others in that same zipcode.

I'm afraid I can't do Titleist, though.  Balls, gloves, clubs, just can't.  It's a thing with me.   

Well thats a shame!

[Moose4282]

3 hours ago, Pingistheanser said:

and I still think youre wrong about that.  Distance matters with ALL clubs, as long as you can control it.

Is perception of distance important?