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Stronger Lofts - is this a Good or Bad Thing

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Long past time to end this discussion. There's nothing to be gained from continuing.

That happened at post #2.......


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9 minutes ago, PMookie said:


That happened at post #2.......


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Leave us alone. We are in lockdown and we can fight if we wanna. 

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That happened at post #2.......


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Man I almost made the cut! tenor%20(5).gif

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What is in my Bag Boy Revolver

Driver:    PXG Gen2 0811x 10.5* set to small + with a VA Composites Nemesys 55s @ 44.75"

Fairway:  :srixon-small: F85 5 wood with a UST Elements Chrome 7F5 @ 41.5"

Irons: Testing the Titleist T200 irons 4-W2 with Project X LZ 5.5 shaft -1/2" and 1* Up

Wedge: Titleist SM7 56* with Project X LZ 5.0 shaft

Putter:  :scotty-cameron-1: Custom Futura X5 flow neck with a UST Frequency Filtered shaft -1" with a SS wristlock grip

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Moose4282 said:

No There are still quite a few GIs that arent hotfaced.  And no the stronger lofts are needed. You would just have a slightly higher launching iron vs a non hotfaced iron... which if you are SUPER slow, then ok, these are benefecial. For everyone else who has moderate to average speed and flips, these could be worse for you.

Serious question for you or anyone else knowledgeable enough about this stuff.

The hardest change I had to make in my golf swing was to stop "flipping"... It really was hard for me to learn how to hit down properly. Is there really a iron set designed in a way that it wouldn't punish flipping? 

Now THAT'S a club I would've bought LOL.

Edited by Grand Stranded

:ping-small: G400 Max 9*

:callaway-small: Rogue 15*  Quaranta 

:callaway-small: Epic Flash hybrids 18* & 21* Tensei Silver

:callaway-small: Rogue X 5-AW Tensei Silver 

:callaway-small: MD4 52* & 56*

:odyssey-small: Stroke Lab Double Wide 34"

:callaway-small: Fusion Zero 14 way stand bag

 

:EVNROLL: ER5  & :yes-small: Tracy putters will be sitting in a :titelist-small: Hybrid 5 bag, just waiting for the :odyssey-small: to misbehave.

 

 

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1 hour ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

You can’t have hot faced irons and not have stronger lofts. 

Lol yes you can... if they were weaker lofts they would just fly marginally higher than its same lofted counterpart....so what

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5 hours ago, Grand Stranded said:

...and they’re always started by a guy who’s still playing persimmon woods with a steel shaft or 30 or 40 year old irons. i’m convinced the problem is THEIR ego, not the guy who’s playing the strong lofts. They aren’t concerned about whether I “can hold a green”. They’re angry I reached it with two clubs less than them. I look at his set up and I’m not asking him what club he hit, why would I? He’s the one asking and getting annoyed about the club I pulled, not me. lol.

You want to play higher lofted irons? Fine, I have no problem with that. Most good players do. My clubs weren’t designed for them, they were designed for guys like me, who need that extra oomph, and can now play the same tees as my nephews and others their age because of the help they give me.

At 65 years old, I’ll play whatever clubs I like, as long as they’re legal. Guys like the OP who want to play their steel shafted persimmon drivers are the one’s with the ego problem if you ask me... they consider themselves “purists” and “guardians of the game.” If I could tell guys like him one thing, it would be, “don’t worry about what others buy or play, worry about your own game.”


Is this pointed at me?  LOL 

FWIW, the OP has Callaway Fusions in his bag.  😀


Cobra King LTD @ 10.5*, ProtoPype 80 X, 43.5"
2h:  TaylorMade Stage 2 Tour, Aldila NV105 S
3-PW:  Mizuno MP37, DGS300
GW: Mizuno Pro 52*, DGS300
SW:  Ram TG-898 56* -or- Wilson Staff PMP 58*
Putter:  Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, Cleveland Designed By, or Mizuno TPM-2, all at 34", or Cleveland Huntington Beach 1, 35"
Ball:  Wilson Staff Duo Pro or FG Tour, or Kirkland Signature 3 pc

Sometimes play 2-PW Golden Ram TW282 or 2-PW 1980 Golden Rams

Occasionally swap in Orlimar or Ram persimmons at the top end of bag

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5 hours ago, Dr Strangelove said:

I dont think the argument is whether the lofts are OK or not.  Who cares.  This being MGS, at least a subset of folks object to the marketing of the clubs. ie. "Cut the BS, we know the distance increase is just because you strengthened the lofts and lengthened the shafts", not because of the <insert> technology.


This is exactly it.  

It's right at the top of the page:  image.png.de67e73e7d3773d7b40ce4cac51d8f34.png

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Cobra King LTD @ 10.5*, ProtoPype 80 X, 43.5"
2h:  TaylorMade Stage 2 Tour, Aldila NV105 S
3-PW:  Mizuno MP37, DGS300
GW: Mizuno Pro 52*, DGS300
SW:  Ram TG-898 56* -or- Wilson Staff PMP 58*
Putter:  Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, Cleveland Designed By, or Mizuno TPM-2, all at 34", or Cleveland Huntington Beach 1, 35"
Ball:  Wilson Staff Duo Pro or FG Tour, or Kirkland Signature 3 pc

Sometimes play 2-PW Golden Ram TW282 or 2-PW 1980 Golden Rams

Occasionally swap in Orlimar or Ram persimmons at the top end of bag

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Posted (edited)
Just now, NRJyzr said:


Is this pointed at me?  LOL 

FWIW, the OP has Callaway Fusions in his bag.  😀

EDIT to my first reply

I just double checked. You're the guy with that driver... now I have to go back and re read your posts, to see what you had to say. I thought that was the OPs bag. Damn, getting old isn't easy.

Edited by Grand Stranded

:ping-small: G400 Max 9*

:callaway-small: Rogue 15*  Quaranta 

:callaway-small: Epic Flash hybrids 18* & 21* Tensei Silver

:callaway-small: Rogue X 5-AW Tensei Silver 

:callaway-small: MD4 52* & 56*

:odyssey-small: Stroke Lab Double Wide 34"

:callaway-small: Fusion Zero 14 way stand bag

 

:EVNROLL: ER5  & :yes-small: Tracy putters will be sitting in a :titelist-small: Hybrid 5 bag, just waiting for the :odyssey-small: to misbehave.

 

 

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9 hours ago, Grand Stranded said:

EDIT to my first reply

I just double checked. You're the guy with that driver... now I have to go back and re read your posts, to see what you had to say. I thought that was the OPs bag. Damn, getting old isn't easy.


Yep, I'm the guy with "that driver."   😉   I have a few others that are somewhat similar.  I also have a King LTD, Fly-Z+, SuperDeep,  SLDR, Covert Tour 2.0, etc, with Motore Speeders, Black Ties, HZRDUS, RIP Alphas, even a couple ProtoPypes.

Your attempted characterization of me is certainly colorful.  Fairly inaccurate, though, LOL.  

If you care, or honestly, even if you don't, what's in my bag is there because I find them interesting to hit.  I'm playing them because it's how golf used to be played, and it's something I don't have in my background.  I didn't play persimmons in Ye Olde Days, largely because I began playing golf around the fall of 1998, after the start of the titanium era.  My Gateway Persimmon was a Louisville Smart Driver that was in the Miscellaneous Driver rack at 2nd Swing, and over time, I've picked up a few more here and there.

I don't hold the belief that what I'm doing is how golf *should* be played.  I just do it because it's interesting to me.  Every so often, I spend a couple months playing old drivers and fairways, right now is one of those.  At some point, I'll work my way through the last of my wound ball stash, another aspect of golf I largely missed due to my relatively late start.  Once they're gone, I'll move back to my Wilsons, Snells, and Kirklands.

It's also kind of interesting that I tend to hit the persimmons less offline than my modern sticks.  <shrug>

Eventually, my inner golf nerd will kick in and I'll dig out metal woods.  I've been thinking of going backwards there, also, for different reasons.  I have a couple Dynacraft Grand Limited drivers from the late 90s, might be fun to play them again, if only for the comedy factor.  They sound like a cowbell when you hit them.  LOL

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Cobra King LTD @ 10.5*, ProtoPype 80 X, 43.5"
2h:  TaylorMade Stage 2 Tour, Aldila NV105 S
3-PW:  Mizuno MP37, DGS300
GW: Mizuno Pro 52*, DGS300
SW:  Ram TG-898 56* -or- Wilson Staff PMP 58*
Putter:  Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, Cleveland Designed By, or Mizuno TPM-2, all at 34", or Cleveland Huntington Beach 1, 35"
Ball:  Wilson Staff Duo Pro or FG Tour, or Kirkland Signature 3 pc

Sometimes play 2-PW Golden Ram TW282 or 2-PW 1980 Golden Rams

Occasionally swap in Orlimar or Ram persimmons at the top end of bag

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19 hours ago, Dr Strangelove said:

I dont think the argument is whether the lofts are OK or not.  Who cares.  This being MGS, at least a subset of folks object to the marketing of the clubs. ie. "Cut the BS, we know the distance increase is just because you strengthened the lofts and lengthened the shafts", not because of the <insert> technology.

Exactly.

17 hours ago, FrogginBullfish said:

Long past time to end this discussion. There's nothing to be gained from continuing.

Agreed. I’ve posted too many times about this. I’ve given specific counter arguments over and over and almost no one addresses them directly to refute - they reply with another angle and avoid the specifics. Loft jacking won’t be reversed, we are all free to buy what we want - though you almost can’t buy a GI set that hasn’t been jacked any more. We agree to disagree and the sheeples are free to claim they hit further with their new 7 iron...even though they don’t at all.
 

Some clever marketing team should have removable sole stamps so buyers can change the numbers on the sole every year - but you’ll need a PW, GW, SW, LW, W5, W6, W7, W8 and you won’t need a 2, 3 or 4 insert. 5 will become endangered soon.

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2 hours ago, NRJyzr said:


Yep, I'm the guy with "that driver."   😉   I have a few others that are somewhat similar.  I also have a King LTD, Fly-Z+, SuperDeep,  SLDR, Covert Tour 2.0, etc, with Motore Speeders, Black Ties, HZRDUS, RIP Alphas, even a couple ProtoPypes.

Your attempted characterization of me is certainly colorful.  Fairly inaccurate, though, LOL.  

If you care, or honestly, even if you don't, what's in my bag is there because I find them interesting to hit.  I'm playing them because it's how golf used to be played, and it's something I don't have in my background.  I didn't play persimmons in Ye Olde Days, largely because I began playing golf around the fall of 1998, after the start of the titanium era.  My Gateway Persimmon was a Louisville Smart Driver that was in the Miscellaneous Driver rack at 2nd Swing, and over time, I've picked up a few more here and there.

I don't hold the belief that what I'm doing is how golf *should* be played.  I just do it because it's interesting to me.  Every so often, I spend a couple months playing old drivers and fairways, right now is one of those.  At some point, I'll work my way through the last of my wound ball stash, another aspect of golf I largely missed due to my relatively late start.  Once they're gone, I'll move back to my Wilsons, Snells, and Kirklands.

It's also kind of interesting that I tend to hit the persimmons less offline than my modern sticks.  <shrug>

Eventually, my inner golf nerd will kick in and I'll dig out metal woods.  I've been thinking of going backwards there, also, for different reasons.  I have a couple Dynacraft Grand Limited drivers from the late 90s, might be fun to play them again, if only for the comedy factor.  They sound like a cowbell when you hit them.  LOL

It sounds like you're more an admirer of classic clubs and someone who enjoys playing them for all the right reasons. My bad for judging your "book" by it's cover.

Good for you man. Golf should be fun, you seem to realize that. Enjoy yourself 

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:ping-small: G400 Max 9*

:callaway-small: Rogue 15*  Quaranta 

:callaway-small: Epic Flash hybrids 18* & 21* Tensei Silver

:callaway-small: Rogue X 5-AW Tensei Silver 

:callaway-small: MD4 52* & 56*

:odyssey-small: Stroke Lab Double Wide 34"

:callaway-small: Fusion Zero 14 way stand bag

 

:EVNROLL: ER5  & :yes-small: Tracy putters will be sitting in a :titelist-small: Hybrid 5 bag, just waiting for the :odyssey-small: to misbehave.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Grand Stranded said:

It sounds like you're more an admirer of classic clubs and someone who enjoys playing them for all the right reasons. My bad for judging your "book" by it's cover.

Good for you man. Golf should be fun, you seem to realize that. Enjoy yourself 


No worries, dude.  🙂

The hard part is that I'm also a nerd, and the tech appeals to me.  I think adjustable clubs are a godsend, if only for the ability to reshaft with a wrench, instead of a torch and shaft puller.  It's also a slippery slope.  😉

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Cobra King LTD @ 10.5*, ProtoPype 80 X, 43.5"
2h:  TaylorMade Stage 2 Tour, Aldila NV105 S
3-PW:  Mizuno MP37, DGS300
GW: Mizuno Pro 52*, DGS300
SW:  Ram TG-898 56* -or- Wilson Staff PMP 58*
Putter:  Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, Cleveland Designed By, or Mizuno TPM-2, all at 34", or Cleveland Huntington Beach 1, 35"
Ball:  Wilson Staff Duo Pro or FG Tour, or Kirkland Signature 3 pc

Sometimes play 2-PW Golden Ram TW282 or 2-PW 1980 Golden Rams

Occasionally swap in Orlimar or Ram persimmons at the top end of bag

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9 hours ago, NRJyzr said:


Yep, I'm the guy with "that driver."   😉   I have a few others that are somewhat similar.  I also have a King LTD, Fly-Z+, SuperDeep,  SLDR, Covert Tour 2.0, etc, with Motore Speeders, Black Ties, HZRDUS, RIP Alphas, even a couple ProtoPypes.

Your attempted characterization of me is certainly colorful.  Fairly inaccurate, though, LOL.  

If you care, or honestly, even if you don't, what's in my bag is there because I find them interesting to hit.  I'm playing them because it's how golf used to be played, and it's something I don't have in my background.  I didn't play persimmons in Ye Olde Days, largely because I began playing golf around the fall of 1998, after the start of the titanium era.  My Gateway Persimmon was a Louisville Smart Driver that was in the Miscellaneous Driver rack at 2nd Swing, and over time, I've picked up a few more here and there.

I don't hold the belief that what I'm doing is how golf *should* be played.  I just do it because it's interesting to me.  Every so often, I spend a couple months playing old drivers and fairways, right now is one of those.  At some point, I'll work my way through the last of my wound ball stash, another aspect of golf I largely missed due to my relatively late start.  Once they're gone, I'll move back to my Wilsons, Snells, and Kirklands.

It's also kind of interesting that I tend to hit the persimmons less offline than my modern sticks.  <shrug>

Eventually, my inner golf nerd will kick in and I'll dig out metal woods.  I've been thinking of going backwards there, also, for different reasons.  I have a couple Dynacraft Grand Limited drivers from the late 90s, might be fun to play them again, if only for the comedy factor.  They sound like a cowbell when you hit them.  LOL

I started playint around the same time as you... you should pick up a titleist dci starship 3 wood.... one of my first “name brand” clubs. The sound that thing made was incredible!

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2 hours ago, Moose4282 said:

I started playint around the same time as you... you should pick up a titleist dci starship 3 wood.... one of my first “name brand” clubs. The sound that thing made was incredible!


Interesting, I didn't know there might be others in that same zipcode.

I'm afraid I can't do Titleist, though.  Balls, gloves, clubs, just can't.  It's a thing with me.   😉


Cobra King LTD @ 10.5*, ProtoPype 80 X, 43.5"
2h:  TaylorMade Stage 2 Tour, Aldila NV105 S
3-PW:  Mizuno MP37, DGS300
GW: Mizuno Pro 52*, DGS300
SW:  Ram TG-898 56* -or- Wilson Staff PMP 58*
Putter:  Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, Cleveland Designed By, or Mizuno TPM-2, all at 34", or Cleveland Huntington Beach 1, 35"
Ball:  Wilson Staff Duo Pro or FG Tour, or Kirkland Signature 3 pc

Sometimes play 2-PW Golden Ram TW282 or 2-PW 1980 Golden Rams

Occasionally swap in Orlimar or Ram persimmons at the top end of bag

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On 4/25/2020 at 12:43 AM, DaveP043 said:

I'm not sure this is really the case.  Yes, the 4-iron has less loft than it had before, but the technology has made it easier to get the ball in the air, and has improved forgiveness when compared to those old 2 or 3 irons.  Again, I'm speaking theoretically, but I'll get a real experience when my T200s arrive.

I actually think that part of the reason for stronger lofts is all in the head. Many of the golfers I play with regularly hated their 3-4 irons as they found them hard to hit however they loved their 5-6 irons. When they changed clubs they were amazed how far they hit the 5 iron. Yes, the technology helped and yes they most probably had no idea that the loft had changed but at the end of the day, in their mind it is a 5 iron and they were confident of hitting it well. BTW they all have ended up with 3 and 4 equivalent Hybrids which they also hit ok.


Callaway Epic Flash 9 Degree

Callaway Big Bertha Fusion 3 wood 15 Degree

Callaway Epic Hybrid 18 Degree

Callaway Steelhead Pro 3-AW Irons

Cleveland 48 and 54 Degree Wedges Steel Shaft

Recoil Graphite Shafts in all Callaway Clubs

Callaway Big Bertha Putter - for when it is wet

La Jolla Putter with Flat Car Grip.

Preferred ball - Anything that is free, or Titlist Pro V1

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On 4/29/2020 at 2:40 PM, Middler said:

You're right - I meant the driver is the only club where MORE distance matters. Thanks.

and I still think youre wrong about that.  Distance matters with ALL clubs, as long as you can control it.


Whats in my Sun Mountain 2.5+ stand bag?:

Woods: Tommy Armour Atomic 10.5*

Hybrid: Tommy Armour 845 19*

Irons: Tommy Armour 845 6, 8 and PW

Wedges: Tommy Armour VCG 56*

Putter: Tommy Armour 303 Milled Series Serrano

Ball: Maxfli Tour X

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Heres an interesting watch.  I think that one thing that people forget when it comes to jacked lofts is that its not so much that the newer clubs are longer.  Theyre actually pretty comparabe on center strikes.  The real advantage comes in when you miss the center of the clubface.  The old clubs penalized you much more when you missed the middle.  With new  clubs, especially the ones with jacked lofts, you can be all over the clubface and still get pretty good ballflight.


Whats in my Sun Mountain 2.5+ stand bag?:

Woods: Tommy Armour Atomic 10.5*

Hybrid: Tommy Armour 845 19*

Irons: Tommy Armour 845 6, 8 and PW

Wedges: Tommy Armour VCG 56*

Putter: Tommy Armour 303 Milled Series Serrano

Ball: Maxfli Tour X

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1 hour ago, Pingistheanser said:

Heres an interesting watch.  I think that one thing that people forget when it comes to jacked lofts is that its not so much that the newer clubs are longer.  Theyre actually pretty comparabe on center strikes.  The real advantage comes in when you miss the center of the clubface.  The old clubs penalized you much more when you missed the middle.  With new  clubs, especially the ones with jacked lofts, you can be all over the clubface and still get pretty good ballflight.

 

That's actually an unrelated point.  There's nothing with the MOI of a G710 in older irons, but there are a fair number of older irons with an MOI higher than something like the Eye2.


Cobra King LTD @ 10.5*, ProtoPype 80 X, 43.5"
2h:  TaylorMade Stage 2 Tour, Aldila NV105 S
3-PW:  Mizuno MP37, DGS300
GW: Mizuno Pro 52*, DGS300
SW:  Ram TG-898 56* -or- Wilson Staff PMP 58*
Putter:  Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, Cleveland Designed By, or Mizuno TPM-2, all at 34", or Cleveland Huntington Beach 1, 35"
Ball:  Wilson Staff Duo Pro or FG Tour, or Kirkland Signature 3 pc

Sometimes play 2-PW Golden Ram TW282 or 2-PW 1980 Golden Rams

Occasionally swap in Orlimar or Ram persimmons at the top end of bag

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4 hours ago, NRJyzr said:


Interesting, I didn't know there might be others in that same zipcode.

I'm afraid I can't do Titleist, though.  Balls, gloves, clubs, just can't.  It's a thing with me.   😉

Well thats a shame!

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3 hours ago, Pingistheanser said:

and I still think youre wrong about that.  Distance matters with ALL clubs, as long as you can control it.

Is perception of distance important?

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