Can a 6-handicap man beat a LPGA player?

[Moecat]

I saw this article - http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-digest-woman/blogs/golf-digest-woman/2011/05/can-a-6-handicap-man-beat-an-l.html - which isn't much.

 

But the topic may be interesting ... what do you all think?

[Tony Covey MGS]

I'll simply say that a 6 handicap has a hell of lot better chance of beating an LPGA pro than a PGA pro.

[Kanoito]

By coincidence I was watching this video today

 

 

And was thinking... those -13 scores... they look lower than the PGA scores (just by feeling, I didn't do any statistical research on it) without taking tees and course length into consideration.

 

But Mike's arguments are completely valid. I think if they played 10 or 20 rounds, I'm sure he would be able to beat named LPGA pro at least once.

 

Back to the question: can a 6 handicap beat an LPGA pro? Definitely! Not all the time, but once in a while yes.

[MmmmmmBuddy]

Ummmmm. No.

[Manavs]

I'll simply say that a 6 handicap has a hell of lot better chance of beating an LPGA pro than a PGA pro.

 

and before any discussion starts on a possibility vs. a pga tour pro -

 

i did an internship at Curtis Strange's club back in the summer of 96. easily nearing the end of his career on the pga tour and one day he pegged it with the izod reps for a hit n giggle from the blue tees and shot a brainless 64 8-under when his tour scoring avg at the time was quite high.

 

that quote on these guys are good - well yes, quite.

 

just look at how many amateurs have won pga tour events or even lpga tour events - and these amateurs are better than a 6.

 

the discussion ends here - close and lock this thread lol

[JBones]

I wouldn't put my 6.7 up against the 500th ranked female player. My cousins girlfriend is one of the top junior females in the state of Indiana; when we go play, we play from the tips and she plays from the next set up and beats my ass every time.

[TWShoot67]

Ain't happening, sorry just don't see any 6 handicap beating any LPGA player.

[Tony Covey MGS]

Ain't happening, sorry just don't see any 6 handicap beating any LPGA player.

 

 

Gotta disagree on this one...at least based on the terms suggested in the original article. When you talk about the bottom end of the LPGA, there are ladies there who creep into the 80s more than occasionally.

 

I play with a legitimate 10 handicap who occasionally, not often mind you, but occasionally flirts with par, and shot 2 over in a recent tournament round. The guys I know who play roughly to a 6 are capable of shooting par +/- a stroke or two on any given day. Again, it doesn't happen often, but it can and does happen. And it happens on difficult courses in the 6600-6800 yard range.

 

So yeah...on the right day, I'm thinking the 6s I know could outplay an LPGA pro by 5 strokes, and that's a conservative estimate. To be clear, I'm not suggesting a 6 is going to go out and beat Paula Creamer, Michelle Wie, or Yani Tseng, but when you start getting to the next tier (Christina Kim, Natalie Gulbis, etc.), I say it's possible. When you get to that bottom 10%, I'll say that if I'm given the option to wager on a 6 winning once in twenty tries...I'll make that bet every day. I don't mean to diminish the ability of the ladies on the LPGA, but I think Mike Johnson is right when he talks about a huge talent drop from the top to the bottom.

 

Could a 6 beat an PGA player? I'd be hard-pressed to give a scratch golfer a 1 in 20 chance against a lower tier PGA Pro. A 6? 0 for 20.

 

 

 

 

[Tyk]

I agree with T pretty much. I would say the 6 has a chance, if they play their best and the LPGA player plays poorly.

 

I would guess maybe the 6 wins 1 of 20? Of course it depends on the pro, depends on the 6 too. What is the pro's "real" handicap? The handicap system really does work when the numbers are legit.

 

But really, the pro has a legitimate chance of shooting a sub-par round, and probably isn't going to shoot more than 3-4 over very often, shooting in the 80's is going to be very unusual. The 6 is going to go under par less frequently than the the pro shoots over 80 and is most likely going to shoot somewhere between 75-80.

 

As the course gets harder, the advantage turns even more to the pro.

 

So my opinion is the 6 has a chance and will win occasionally if many rounds are played, but those wins are going to be the statistical outliers. I'd probably throw some cash on the 6 over 20 rounds but woudln't bet the house on him! On any single given round, I'd bet heavily on the pro.

[Shambles]

If the 6 handi can drive as long as a PGA pro, and hit his irons as far, he might have a very slim chance but, being a legitimate 6 handi, he would be expected to score 4 to 8 over with a lot more 8's.

 

LPGA pros can hit as far as or farther than most male amateurs and are a lot more accurate. With only a 6 handi as an opponent, and the Tees set for LPGA lengths, I doubt the LPGA pro is going to feel any pressure and can be expected to shoot 2 under to 2 over and should be a heavy favorite to blank her opponent unless he gets extraordinarily lucky.

 

Outside of length and strength, those girls don't leave much to the men.

 

 

Shambles

[RookieBlue7]

I play off a 6.7, and I'll be glad to go play with Morgan Pressel, Natalie Gulbis, or any of the other hotties on the LPGA. They'll beat me to death, and I'll enjoy every minute of it. Do I think I'd beat any of the professional women inside the top 300? Nope. Do I have a chance against those outside the top 300? If they have an off day and I hit everything flush and putt well, maybe, but I doubt it.

[jamo]

6 handicap, no. But I think a scratch male golfer would give a lot of LPGA players a run for their money if they played on the same courses, from the same tees.

[Tyk]

I agree jamo, of course the scratch would stand a much better chance. But, as you well know playing as a 1.5, there is a HUGE difference between a scratch and a 6 handicap!

[jamo]

I agree jamo, of course the scratch would stand a much better chance. But, as you well know playing as a 1.5, there is a HUGE difference between a scratch and a 6 handicap!

 

You bet. I have videos from when I was a 6 handicap, and it's not pretty.

[finalist]

I say no way. A 6 handicap AVERAGES two shots over their handicap, so that's 8 strokes over par. That means a 6 handicap averages a score of 80. Averages 80! A 6 can hit plenty of good shots, and they typically have a good handle on their game, but they are missing major portions of a complete game otherwise they would be lower (around a 0-2).

 

Remember a handicap means that's your potential best score. A 6 handicap's best day should be a 78. They average 80 and probably would shoot 82-84 with good pressure on them.

[JBones]

Alright, I'm going to play the devils advocate here, since we all seem to be in agreement that this can't be done. If you give me the shortest hitting LPGA player ranked between 150-200 and put us on the same tee box on a 7300yd (links style, so I can hit it anywhere) course and I have a chance to beat her 1 out of 10 times. Why do I say this??? A, because I'm a fairly long hitter; I'm not going to go as far to say I average 300yds, but for about every 280yd drive I hit, I hit one 320. B, I'm picking the course that I play regularly and I know very well. And finally, I wouldn't say I'm an average 6 handicap (I was a 2 handi, before a couple wrist fractures, so I've got a little game). All my strokes are lost on the green; if my putting is average I play to a 3 max, if it's bad (which it is the majority of the time) I play to a 6, I can't say what I would be if it was on....because it never has been, LOL. I shot even a few weeks ago, with 16 two putt pars, with 12 of those sniffing the hole and finishing inside 8". So, I'm not saying I WOULD win, but I would have a good chance. With the right 6 handi and the right course, I think it might be possible.

[Tony Covey MGS]

Alright, I'm going to play the devils advocate here, since we all seem to be in agreement that this can't be done. If you give me the shortest hitting LPGA player ranked between 150-200 and put us on the same tee box on a 7300yd (links style, so I can hit it anywhere) course and I have a chance to beat her 1 out of 10 times. Why do I say this??? A, because I'm a fairly long hitter; I'm not going to go as far to say I average 300yds, but for about every 280yd drive I hit, I hit one 320. B, I'm picking the course that I play regularly and I know very well. And finally, I wouldn't say I'm an average 6 handicap (I was a 2 handi, before a couple wrist fractures, so I've got a little game). All my strokes are lost on the green; if my putting is average I play to a 3 max, if it's bad (which it is the majority of the time) I play to a 6, I can't say what I would be if it was on....because it never has been, LOL. I shot even a few weeks ago, with 16 two putt pars, with 12 of those sniffing the hole and finishing inside 8". So, I'm not saying I WOULD win, but I would have a good chance. With the right 6 handi and the right course, I think it might be possible.

 

I've accidentally closed this tab on my browser mid-post twice now, so I'm growing incredibly frustrated with myself, but anyway...

 

I'm not playing devil's advocate. Instead I'm telling anyone listening that I whole-heartedly believe a 6 would beat an LPGA pro given 20 tries at it. Look, nobody (I hope) is suggesting a 6 is going to beat Paula Creamer, Yani Tseng, Christie Kerr, Jiyai Shin, or any of the other talented women who routinely make the cut in an LPGA Tournament. While it's possible for a 6 to shoot close to (and possibly under) par for a round, the top players on the LPGA tour are more than capable of shooting in the low 60s on any given day. A 6 beating one of those women (even in 100 tries) is as likely to happen as me besting Rory McIlroy in match play (even if he had to give me strokes).

 

The thing is the talent drop off from the top of the LPGA leaderboard to the bottom is only slightly less than the talent drop off between Rory McIlroy and me (perhaps that's overstating it). If you look at tournament results, what you'll find is that for every day of golf played on the LPGA tour numerous women shoot in the low-mid 80s, and occasionally the high 80s. These aren't anomalies, they happen multiple times, every round. As a specific case, Joanna Coe shot 86-79 in the recent LPGA ShopRite Classic. Over the first two days of that tournament, 20 scores of 80 or higher were handed in on a course playing as a par 71, 6100 yards (73.9/126). From a yardage and difficulty standpoint, that's similar than my home course (Par 73, 6400 yards, 71/129). My USGA Index hovers between 16 & 17 and my low round at home is 84. Now I know there is a lot to be said for familiarity, but my course is one of the most difficult in upstate NY, and the numbers alone suggest that it's remotely possible that I could beat an LPGA pro. I'm not insane, I'm not saying it would happen, but IF I shot my best round in recent memory, and the LPGA pro shot her worst AND I got a little bit of luck along the way, it COULD happen (it won't, but it could - but again, I'm a 16+).

 

In a recent tournament on my course, a relatively short hitting 10 shot 76, 84. Again, assuming similar difficulty (and does anyone think the LPGA sets up courses like pre-Congressional US Opens?), I'd say the 10 stands a very good chance of beating an LPGA pro (again we're only talking 1 out of 20).

 

When we drop down to a 6, I'm willing to say with certainty that a bottom tier LPGA pro loses at least 1 of 20, and I'd go so far as to suggest a middle tier LPGA Pro (think Christina Kim) may not escape unscathed in a 20 round test against a 6. The women at the bottom of the LPGA leaderboards are good, very good golfers, but a 6 handicap is also a pretty good golfer. The guys on the bottom of the PGA leaderboard, they are nothing short of great golfers and a 6 probably couldn't touch them on his best day.

 

Everything else being equal, if I'm placing a 1 in 20 bet, on a 6100 yard course (where the average 6 handicap is probably going to be driver/wedge all day, and have really good looks at the Par5s), against a lower tier LPGA player, I'll put all my money on the 6 and let it ride.

[Xamilo]

I've accidentally closed this tab on my browser mid-post twice now, so I'm growing incredibly frustrated with myself, but anyway...

 

I'm not playing devil's advocate. Instead I'm telling anyone listening that I whole-heartedly believe a 6 would beat an LPGA pro given 20 tries at it. Look, nobody (I hope) is suggesting a 6 is going to beat Paula Creamer, Yani Tseng, Christie Kerr, Jiyai Shin, or any of the other talented women who routinely make the cut in an LPGA Tournament. While it's possible for a 6 to shoot close to (and possibly under) par for a round, the top players on the LPGA tour are more than capable of shooting in the low 60s on any given day. A 6 beating one of those women (even in 100 tries) is as likely to happen as me besting Rory McIlroy in match play (even if he had to give me strokes).

 

The thing is the talent drop off from the top of the LPGA leaderboard to the bottom is only slightly less than the talent drop off between Rory McIlroy and me (perhaps that's overstating it). If you look at tournament results, what you'll find is that for every day of golf played on the LPGA tour numerous women shoot in the low-mid 80s, and occasionally the high 80s. These aren't anomalies, they happen multiple times, every round. As a specific case, Joanna Coe shot 86-79 in the recent LPGA ShopRite Classic. Over the first two days of that tournament, 20 scores of 80 or higher were handed in on a course playing as a par 71, 6100 yards (73.9/126). From a yardage and difficulty standpoint, that's similar than my home course (Par 73, 6400 yards, 71/129). My USGA Index hovers between 16 & 17 and my low round at home is 84. Now I know there is a lot to be said for familiarity, but my course is one of the most difficult in upstate NY, and the numbers alone suggest that it's remotely possible that I could beat an LPGA pro. I'm not insane, I'm not saying it would happen, but IF I shot my best round in recent memory, and the LPGA pro shot her worst AND I got a little bit of luck along the way, it COULD happen (it won't, but it could - but again, I'm a 16+).

 

In a recent tournament on my course, a relatively short hitting 10 shot 76, 84. Again, assuming similar difficulty (and does anyone think the LPGA sets up courses like pre-Congressional US Opens?), I'd say the 10 stands a very good chance of beating an LPGA pro (again we're only talking 1 out of 20).

 

When we drop down to a 6, I'm willing to say with certainty that a bottom tier LPGA pro loses at least 1 of 20, and I'd go so far as to suggest a middle tier LPGA Pro (think Christina Kim) may not escape unscathed in a 20 round test against a 6. The women at the bottom of the LPGA leaderboards are good, very good golfers, but a 6 handicap is also a pretty good golfer. The guys on the bottom of the PGA leaderboard, they are nothing short of great golfers and a 6 probably couldn't touch them on his best day.

 

Everything else being equal, if I'm placing a 1 in 20 bet, on a 6100 yard course (where the average 6 handicap is probably going to be driver/wedge all day, and have really good looks at the Par5s), against a lower tier LPGA player, I'll put all my money on the 6 and let it ride.

 

Very good post and reasons behind your thoughts.

 

I agree. No recreational golfer has 1 chance in a 100000000000 to win over let's say Wie or Tseng, but the bottom LPGA Tour does come from a different breed, and a couple of "80s" are not out of the question.