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What are your on course expectations after a fitting?


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On MGS there are always topics being started that ask about what clubs or shafts they should play or should they get fitted.    There are always the answers that you should get fitted, just play what you want, or fittings don't work/I saw no improvement on the course type answers.   Lets turn the question around and for those that ask about fittings,  what are your expectations from a fitting and what do you think a fitting should accomplish?

Edit:  Just to clarify,  the question isn't about the fitting itself,  but your  performance expectations once you get back on the course.  

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For most of my fittings are because I’m going to buy a product and what the best set up for me. Normally I’ve done some testing of a driver for example and decide I want to buy driver x because I want new and shiny. So I go for a fitting to dial in that driver. Tends to apply for my  irons as well. sometimes I may do a fitting for a few brands to see which of them offers the best overall performance which is what I did for g400 against the m5/6 and ts2/3.


 

 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

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If I am paying more than $100 for a fitting for a single club category (ex. irons, driver, etc.), I expect the fitter to have a strong knowledge of different components. I have been disappointed in all of my fittings, I hear things like "both of these are 95 gram shafts, they are essentially the same".

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I would do one for fitting but for a whole set of clubs, anyone do this? I know one member messaged me that he did and loved it and picked out the best for home by testing several models.

Jazz woods (Driver & Hybrids), TNT Silver Eagle Irons, PW & SW, Slotline Inertia putter. TopFlite Gammer.

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I expect the fitter to be honest and tell me whether the new clubs are better than what I currently use. I'm paying for the knowledge and data which are the baseline for my purchase.

I've walked out of 2 driver fittings where none of the newest offerings were able to beat my gamer. $100 lost each time but better than $400-500

 

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25 minutes ago, viking said:

I would do one for fitting but for a whole set of clubs, anyone do this? I know one member messaged me that he did and loved it and picked out the best for home by testing several models.

People do this all the time but what you do want to achieve?

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
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To replace the whole set with new clubs that suit me better and are all around better clubs, i.e. consistently more accurate / less dispersion and consistent distance. Why do it piecemeal except in the beginning?

Jazz woods (Driver & Hybrids), TNT Silver Eagle Irons, PW & SW, Slotline Inertia putter. TopFlite Gammer.

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2 hours ago, cnosil said:

Lets turn the question around and for those that ask about fittings,  what are your expectations from a fitting and what do you think a fitting should accomplish?

Assuming you're talking paid fittings only. I expect to score better - period. I don't know why else one would pay for a fitting.

I just had a driver fitting at CC in Feb and got my new driver early Mar, and my stated goal was to hit straighter - period. I have more than enough length - a bad thing if you can't hit it straight. I've always had my doubts about a fitting doing much good for anyone who doesn't already have a repeatable swing or the off chance you're grossly misfit (most people can play off the rack clubs OK). Yes I am aware of self-fulfilling prophecy, I'm determined to give the fitting every chance of success. And I wouldn't have paid for a fitting if I wasn't honestly hoping for the best.

Before the fitting I was averaging 60% fairways hit, 19% left and 21% right. I don't consider my driver swing repeatable.

My regular course was closed for Covid, but reopened three weeks ago. The first nine I played with the new driver I hit 5 of 7 fairways. The second nine two weeks ago I hit 6 of 7 fairways. I was about to start a thread confessing there's something to fittings and maybe I was wrong. Then I played eighteen last week, and hit 2 of 13 fairways. I parred 8 of 18 holes, so it's not as if I was playing badly overall, just couldn't hit many fairways with my new $450 custom driver shaft.

I guess I'll have to play a few more rounds to draw any conclusions...the jury is still out.

And the way CC does fittings, it's almost guaranteed one of the combinations they give you (and then sell you on) will perform better than what you came in with. Good odds it will be pure chance and not a better club in the real world. If you don't believe it - take your current driver out to a driving range and hit 32 drives, drop outliers if you like (CC will). Then chart the distribution of every four drives  (1-4, 5-8, etc.). Guess what, they won't be the same, one of the 8 sets will be a tighter distribution - purely chance.

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36 minutes ago, Kanoito said:

I expect the fitter to be honest and tell me whether the new clubs are better than what I currently use. I'm paying for the knowledge and data which are the baseline for my purchase.

I've walked out of 2 driver fittings where none of the newest offerings were able to beat my gamer. $100 lost each time but better than $400-500

 

Knowing you have the best option in your bag is a fantastic fitting.  You are know certain you have what you need.  

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53 minutes ago, dlow206 said:

If I am paying more than $100 for a fitting for a single club category (ex. irons, driver, etc.), I expect the fitter to have a strong knowledge of different components. I have been disappointed in all of my fittings, I hear things like "both of these are 95 gram shafts, they are essentially the same".

There is often less difference than what marketing tells us to believe.  

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9 minutes ago, Middler said:

Assuming you're talking paid fittings only. I expect to score better - period. I don't know why else one would pay for a fitting.

I just had a driver fitting at CC, and my stated goal was to hit straighter period. I have more than enough length - that's a bad thing if you can't hit it straight. I wouldn't have paid for a fitting if I wasn't hoping it would help me play better. I've always had my doubts about a fitting doing much good for anyone who doesn't already have a repeatable swing. Yes I am aware of self-fulfilling prophecy, I'm determined to give the fitting every chance of success.

Before the fitting I was averaging 60% fairways hit, 19% left and 21% right.

The first nine I played three weeks ago with the new driver I hit 5 of 7 fairways. The second nine two weeks ago I hit 6 of 7 fairways. I was about to start a thread confessing there's something to fittings and maybe I was wrong. Then I played eighteen last week, and hit 3 of 13 fairways. I parred 8 of 18 holes, so it's not as if I was playing badly overall, just couldn't hit many fairways with my new $450 custom driver shaft. I guess I'll have to play a few more rounds to draw any conclusions...

The fairways you missed how bad was the miss? How bad was the miss compared to your previous setup. 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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8 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

The fairways you missed how bad was the miss? How bad was the miss compared to your previous setup. 

No better or worse, I thought of that. Sure some were light rough easily played, but others were off in the weeds left and right - no different than ever with my stock driver. My question is why did I drive so much better the two weeks before. I thought I was on to something, but not sure anymore...

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14 minutes ago, Middler said:

Assuming you're talking paid fittings only. I expect to score better - period. I don't know why else one would pay for a fitting.

I just had a driver fitting at CC, and I want to believe it was worth it, but I have my doubts about a fitting doing much good for anyone who doesn't already have a repeatable swing.

Before the fitting I was averaging 60% fairways hit.

The first nine I played three weeks ago with the new driver I hit 5 of 7 fairways. The second nine two weeks ago I hit 6 of 7 fairways. I was about to start a thread confessing there's something to fittings and maybe I was wrong. Then I played eighteen last week, and hit 3 of 13 fairways. I parred 8 of 18 holes, so it's not as if I was playing badly overall, just couldn't hit many fairways with my new $450 custom driver shaft. I guess I'll have to play a few more rounds to draw any conclusions...

I'd encourage you to go look at the driving stats for your favorite PGA Tour player and see how many fairways they hit day to day and week to week.  Fittings do not take away a performance bell curve, but to move it in a direction that is helpful.  If a player used to average 6 fairways, they probably had days where they hit 0 and days they hit 12.  If you move your stats with a new driver to 9, you will still have days when you hit 4 and days you hit 14.  That would be a fantastic fitting!  Now, if you moved your average up 3-4 fairways but hit it 30 yards shorter you would have experienced a bad fitting. 

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10 minutes ago, edteergolf said:

I'd encourage you to go look at the driving stats for your favorite PGA Tour player and see how many fairways they hit day to day and week to week.  Fittings do not take away a performance bell curve, but to move it in a direction that is helpful.  If a player used to average 6 fairways, they probably had days where they hit 0 and days they hit 12.  If you move your stats with a new driver to 9, you will still have days when you hit 4 and days you hit 14.  That would be a fantastic fitting!  Now, if you moved your average up 3-4 fairways but hit it 30 yards shorter you would have experienced a bad fitting. 

WADR comparing to a PGA Tour player isn't valid. Those guys average 50-70 yards longer than me (which exacerbates misses) and they play on much tighter more challenging course than I'm playing.

And the Club Champion fitter I worked with would have confidently told you he could significantly tighten the dispersion or "bell curve."

Like I said the jury is still out, I won't draw any conclusions until I have 20 rounds to look at.

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35 minutes ago, viking said:

To replace the whole set with new clubs that suit me better and are all around better clubs, i.e. consistently more accurate / less dispersion and consistent distance. Why do it piecemeal except in the beginning?

Doing a full bag fitting requires lots of swings and as you get farther into the fitting you may not get the best results due to fatigue.  For that reason people often do fittings in multiple session.  

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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1 minute ago, Middler said:

WADR comparing to a PGA Tour player isn't valid. Those guys average 70 yard longer than me (which exacerbates misses) and they play on much tighter more challenging course than I'm playing.

Like I said the jury is still out, I won't draw any conclusions until I have 20 rounds to look at.

I never said to compare distance,  I asked you to compare accuracy day to day and week to week.  I'm asking you to look at so called 'consistency.'  Understanding what the best do, leaves us clues about what we can do and how we can go about doing it.    

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1 hour ago, cnosil said:

Doing a full bag fitting requires lots of swings and as you get farther into the fitting you may not get the best results due to fatigue.  For that reason people often do fittings in multiple session.  

Yes that makes sense.  A person form Nova Scotia on here told me and did the same thing as well.

Jazz woods (Driver & Hybrids), TNT Silver Eagle Irons, PW & SW, Slotline Inertia putter. TopFlite Gammer.

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1 hour ago, Middler said:

No better or worse, I thought of that. Sure some were light rough easily played, but others were off in the weeds left and right - no different than ever with my stock driver. My question is why did I drive so much better the two weeks before. I thought I was on to something, but not sure anymore...

bolded part is that based on data or perception? 

when we aren’t sold on the fitting process or the notion of what fitting are for, doubt creeps in and we judge things based on perception and feelings and not necessarily on data.

we all hav days where things work better than others. Changes in face angle, face to path, weather, how good we feel that day. 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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3 hours ago, edteergolf said:

I never said to compare distance,  I asked you to compare accuracy day to day and week to week.  I'm asking you to look at so called 'consistency.'  Understanding what the best do, leaves us clues about what we can do and how we can go about doing it.    

Relax. I wasn’t looking for an argument, and didn’t think I’d have to explain. If you’re 5 degrees off line and hit it 320 yards you’ve probably missed the fairway. If you’re 5 degrees offline and hit it 175 yards you’re probably still in the fairway. I thought everyone who plays golf understood that...

And again touring pros play tighter courses than most of us. We’re not comparable, apples and oranges.

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Unfortunately, as this thread has shown, many people have unrealistic expectations when it comes to fittings. You’re rarely going to see a sizable immediate jump in performance. It will not drop your scores over night and take you from a 18 to a 10 handicap. A fitting is a tool to rate your equipment and raise your potential. It gives you knowledge to help you improve. That’s it! What you do with that information will determine if you improve or not. Their is no magic, you have to put in the work to get better. Like most things in life, you only get out what you put into it.

For me, getting my delivery data, ball flight data and the fitters thoughts and ideas is what I’m looking for. I leave with piece of mind that my equipment is not holding me back and I can go to work on my swing with better knowledge about my game.


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No better or worse, I thought of that. Sure some were light rough easily played, but others were off in the weeds left and right - no different than ever with my stock driver. My question is why did I drive so much better the two weeks before. I thought I was on to something, but not sure anymore...
Timing, swing "effort", minor change of plane, tempo, hip sway instead of hip turn, grip change, shoulder opening just a shade more and/or not opening as much.......

Etc,etc,etc. Even the pros have a hard time grooving it every time. That becomes even more difficult for a normal guy who's playing once a week.

So, in response to OP, most consistent, knowing I'm going to spray a few, but lesson the damage on the spray. Distance and straight balls is why I get fit, regardless of club

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When I had got series of Golftec lessons, it included a fitting. I had suspected that my driver was really bad for me, but having someone do the numbers of spin, launch, strike pattern showed how bad. Then just demoing a few drivers and showing what I got from one head to another. Getting a well fit club let me work on certain parts of the swing instead of fighting the ill-fit driver too

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58 minutes ago, LeftyRM7 said:

Unfortunately, as this thread has shown, many people have unrealistic expectations when it comes to fittings. You’re rarely going to see a sizable immediate jump in performance. It will not drop your scores over night and take you from a 18 to a 10 handicap. A fitting is a tool to rate your equipment and raise your potential. It gives you knowledge to help you improve. That’s it! What you do with that information will determine if you improve or not. Their is no magic, you have to put in the work to get better. Like most things in life, you only get out what you put into it.

For me, getting my delivery data, ball flight data and the fitters thoughts and ideas is what I’m looking for. I leave with piece of mind that my equipment is not holding me back and I can go to work on my swing with better knowledge about my game.
 

Maybe I phrased the original question poorly, but this is more along the lines of what I was looking for.   Assume you have the best fitter and he puts you into perfect equipment.   Do you expect more greens, more fairways, to shoot 5 strokes lower every round, improved handicap, or something else? Do you expect the improvements every round or just improved averages over time.  

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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4 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Maybe I phrased the original question poorly, but this is more along the lines of what I was looking for.   Assume you have the best fitter and he puts you into perfect equipment.   Do you expect more greens, more fairways, to shoot 5 strokes lower every round, improved handicap, or something else? Do you expect the improvements every round or just improved averages over time.  

I have no expectations my scores will drop. That still requires me to execute golf shots. The fitting just gives me the best match to my swing to try and accomplish that

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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I am planning to get a fitting done within the next 6-8 months. My Irons are from model year 2010 so I think new iron technology will lend itself to some increased distance  and hopefully increased forgiveness and consistency. In general though I view a fitting as another tool or modality in the quest for playing better golf. The same as taking lessons and practicing, I believe a good fitting is just another component a player has to get more performance out of their game.  I hope to improve my handicap but definitely not expecting that from a fitting...but I am hoping for that from my lessons!

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14 hours ago, Middler said:

Relax. I wasn’t looking for an argument, and didn’t think I’d have to explain. If you’re 5 degrees off line and hit it 320 yards you’ve probably missed the fairway. If you’re 5 degrees offline and hit it 175 yards you’re probably still in the fairway. I thought everyone who plays golf understood that...

And again touring pros play tighter courses than most of us. We’re not comparable, apples and oranges.

What does your 5* theory have to do with the amount of fairways you hit.  In your original post, you said you had two good days of driving and one less than good.  I took your statement to mean that you find it unacceptable to hit fewer fairways with a driver that was to improve the bell curve.  I'm asking you to look at the 'consistency' a PGA Tour player achieves day to day, therefore the actual number of fairways is not relevant.  They display a large range of volatility, therefore so should you.  As an example, the same would hold true for scoring.  Professional players have a season scoring range between 12-18 shots (I believe the average is 16 shots) during a given year.  (65 low round & 83 high round)  Therefore, if your low round is 85, your high round is likely between 97-103 or slightly higher since we are not as good as professional golfers.  

Recognizing patterns of the best players is precisely the reason some players are better than others and the same holds true at all levels of the game.  Some are smarter about the game due to nature or nurture.  If a player has poor expectations, they tend to get frustrated easily over the normal variability of the game.   Want to guess whether the hardheaded or open minded players tend to be better? 

BTW, your 5* theory works in a sterile world, however, it doesn't really work in a practical sense.  The reason is that great drivers on tour range between starting their golf ball 3* left or right of their target line and use curvature to maintain a predictable cone. On tour the cones are about 50 yards wide with equal balls left and right of a centered target.  The players who aren't as good still average roughly 50 yards but have greater dispersion on the outliers.  Most amateur golfers also have roughly a 50 yard wide cone but often display outliers that are further off line.  That said, the reason why tour players are more successful is they know how to target or place that cone in play and amateurs do not.  Amateurs tend to place only half of the cone in a receptive area and pros tend to place the entire cone in receptive area.  Studying shotlink data provides clues how the best play and can be useful in helping amateur golfers of all levels become more successful at the game.  

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13 hours ago, cnosil said:

Maybe I phrased the original question poorly, but this is more along the lines of what I was looking for.   Assume you have the best fitter and he puts you into perfect equipment.   Do you expect more greens, more fairways, to shoot 5 strokes lower every round, improved handicap, or something else? Do you expect the improvements every round or just improved averages over time.  

I‘d hope for improved scoring over time, mostly eliminating the occasional high scores from poor tee to green play (putting and chipping are another category). IOW a smaller SD in scoring, a new normal distribution. A 5 stroke improvement would be wonderful, but I think 2-3 strokes is more realistic. 

  • Titleist TSR2 11° HZRDUS Red CB 50 6.0 w Lamkin UTx Midsize
  • Titleist TSR2 16.5º HZRDUS Red 60 CB 6.0 & TSR2 21º HZRDUS Black 4G 70 6.0 w Lamkin UTx Midsize
  • Mizuno JPX923 HMP 4-GW, T22 54.12WS, T22 58.04DC w Lamkin ST+2 Hybrid Midsize
  • Evnroll EV5.3
  • Maxfli Tour & ProV1
  • Ping Pioneer - MGI Zip Navigator AT
  • Payntr X 002 LE, Ecco Biom C4, FJ DryJoys
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11 minutes ago, edteergolf said:

What does your 5* theory have to do with the amount of fairways you hit.  In your original post, you said you had two good days of driving and one less than good.  I took your statement to mean that you find it unacceptable to hit fewer fairways with a driver that was to improve the bell curve.  I'm asking you to look at the 'consistency' a PGA Tour player achieves day to day, therefore the actual number of fairways is not relevant.  They display a large range of volatility, therefore so should you.  As an example, the same would hold true for scoring.  Professional players have a season scoring range between 12-18 shots (I believe the average is 16 shots) during a given year.  (65 low round & 83 high round)  Therefore, if your low round is 85, your high round is likely between 97-103 or slightly higher since we are not as good as professional golfers.  

Recognizing patterns of the best players is precisely the reason some players are better than others and the same holds true at all levels of the game.  Some are smarter about the game due to nature or nurture.  If a player has poor expectations, they tend to get frustrated easily over the normal variability of the game.   Want to guess whether the hardheaded or open minded players tend to be better? 

BTW, your 5* theory works in a sterile world, however, it doesn't really work in a practical sense.  The reason is that great drivers on tour range between starting their golf ball 3* left or right of their target line and use curvature to maintain a predictable cone. On tour the cones are about 50 yards wide with equal balls left and right of a centered target.  The players who aren't as good still average roughly 50 yards but have greater dispersion on the outliers.  Most amateur golfers also have roughly a 50 yard wide cone but often display outliers that are further off line.  That said, the reason why tour players are more successful is they know how to target or place that cone in play and amateurs do not.  Amateurs tend to place only half of the cone in a receptive area and pros tend to place the entire cone in receptive area.  Studying shotlink data provides clues how the best play and can be useful in helping amateur golfers of all levels become more successful at the game.  

Yawn. We agree to disagree. Let’s not further hijack the OP’s thread.

  • Titleist TSR2 11° HZRDUS Red CB 50 6.0 w Lamkin UTx Midsize
  • Titleist TSR2 16.5º HZRDUS Red 60 CB 6.0 & TSR2 21º HZRDUS Black 4G 70 6.0 w Lamkin UTx Midsize
  • Mizuno JPX923 HMP 4-GW, T22 54.12WS, T22 58.04DC w Lamkin ST+2 Hybrid Midsize
  • Evnroll EV5.3
  • Maxfli Tour & ProV1
  • Ping Pioneer - MGI Zip Navigator AT
  • Payntr X 002 LE, Ecco Biom C4, FJ DryJoys
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I‘d hope for improved scoring over time, mostly eliminating the occasional high scores from poor tee to green play (putting and chipping are another category). IOW a smaller SD in scoring, a new normal distribution. A 5 stroke improvement would be wonderful, but I think 2-3 strokes is more realistic. 

Hopefully you will keep us informed on you long term results from your driver fitting.

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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