Ferrule Creep...Why?

[chisag]

8 minutes ago, jaskanski said:

I seriously doubt that the same issue from one OEM - in this case TM - across 3 different product lines (M2, M4 and SIM2) would all suffer the same failure.

Unless they're clone knock offs of course. I hate to call BS - but....

 

... I have heard of a set coming loose, but like you it is very rare. Personally I have found the exact opposite probably pulling well over 100 shafts from iron sets in 35 years and I have never run across loose ones but found more than a few that were extremely difficult to pull, especially Ping irons. I have also used Tour quick set epoxy that has failed in some irons I have re-shafted (although only a Golfworks brand of quick set) but never from an OEM. 

[arovbukay]

39 minutes ago, jaskanski said:

I seriously doubt that the same issue from one OEM - in this case TM - across 3 different product lines (M2, M4 and SIM2) would all suffer the same failure.

Unless they're clone knock offs of course. I hate to call BS - but....

Bought from a reputable golf course, doubt they are knock offs. Can’t see what it could be other than myself, but struggling to think what as I play off 10, don’t think I’m hacking them that much they break.

[jaskanski]

Well - here's where I'm at:

Let's say for the sake of arguement that TM have a really sloppy QC and have a failure rate of 1 set in 100. (TM sell a lot of sets and unsurprisingly - they don't, of course, but bear with me).

If one set fails at a statistic of 100/1 followed by another at 100/1 and then a third at 100/1 - all to the same guy in succession - that gives a probability of 1000000/1. In other words, highly unlikely.

On the other hand, if you play golf long enough you get to see and hear of plenty of weird things that happen for no reasonable explanation and these tend to go down as anecdotal folklore. Golf balls hitting birds in flight? Happens all the time. Consecutive holes in one? Been done on several occasions.

The more I talk to golfers over the years, the more stories I hear and the more the yarns they tell, the more they seem like fishermans stories of bizarre twists of fate and/or luck. The likeness to the old story of a fisherman reeling in a fish, which got eaten in the process by a bigger fish - and then in turn eaten by a shark - are remarkable.

The point is - it's not impossible, nor is it completely implausible. But if you've been around long enough to know what you know - you can make you own mind up.

I think it's fair to say that enough time has been given to reasons why ferrules creep and the remedial actions to take - and other sound advice.

 

[GolfSpy BOS]

Is there a possibility you’re leaving these in your trunk and they’re getting really hot? I’ve read the epoxy can break down in that sort of heat. Not sure where you live but maybe that’s part of the explanation?

 

 

[RollingGreens]

How about your cleaning process? Do you soak your clubs or use any sort of products?

[arovbukay]

Don’t soak or leave in the trunk. Live in the U.K. so we don’t get those sorts of temperatures anyway.

[release]

22 hours ago, arovbukay said:

these are new clubs, a couple of months old, played max 10 rounds with

On the outside of a chance, since you had gone through several different products from different time period.  Unless they continue to use the same batch of epoxy with all different line of models; you could be one of the exceptional user.

I had a guy who is petite for his size ( 5'4") and driver swing speed is only in the mid 80MPH to max out just over 90 once in awhile.  I had installed grips for him over the years, all different models and makes.  Tried air install, he came back in a few weeks with twisted grips.  All other users with the same batch of grips (  the same grips from a bulk box of 500 ) had no issue , just him.  So I installed with the traditional method, double sided tape with solvent.  He came back in a few months with similar twisted grips on the shafts.

This happened with several different times with different products so.... it was HIM.  He also chew through all the things he owns, his automobiles, his furniture ,  all things went through him were like gone through a hurricane  

[cnosil]

16 hours ago, arovbukay said:

Bought from a reputable golf course, doubt they are knock offs. Can’t see what it could be other than myself, but struggling to think what as I play off 10, don’t think I’m hacking them that much they break.

What is you ball striking like?  Lots of toe or heel strikes? Extreme toe or heel down at impact?  Really trying to turn hands over at impact with very descending blow?  Lots of practice on mats?    Thinking it could be that you are repeatedly putting extremely torque on the head and the epoxy breaks.  

[arovbukay]

15 minutes ago, cnosil said:

What is you ball striking like?  Lots of toe or heel strikes? Extreme toe or heel down at impact?  Really trying to turn hands over at impact with very descending blow?  Lots of practice on mats?    Thinking it could be that you are repeatedly putting extremely torque on the head and the epoxy breaks.  

Couple of videos of my ball striking. 
 

I do practice a lot on mats, so it could be that.

[cnosil]

9 minutes ago, arovbukay said:

Couple of videos of my ball striking. 
 

I do practice a lot on mats, so it could be that.

Could be combination of steep angle of attack and mats. 

[release]

Impact with the club heads still descending , before the bottom of the swing arc.  Very taxing for the equipment and the body.  It is what it is, I wouldn't change the golf swing for a loose ferrule.

Need to check for loft and lie annually if you have forged irons and practice off the mat.  And be prepared to visit a sports injury specialist in the future if you golf a lot.  Fingers, Elbow , shoulders, neck......

[arovbukay]

5 hours ago, release said:

Impact with the club heads still descending , before the bottom of the swing arc.  Very taxing for the equipment and the body.  It is what it is, I wouldn't change the golf swing for a loose ferrule.

Need to check for loft and lie annually if you have forged irons and practice off the mat.  And be prepared to visit a sports injury specialist in the future if you golf a lot.  Fingers, Elbow , shoulders, neck......

unfortunately not just a loose ferrule, but loose head. 

Agree it might be steep attack angle and probably bottoming out much later as I do get a much lower ball flight than others.

Time for a lesson perhaps.

[release]

7 hours ago, arovbukay said:

unfortunately not just a loose ferrule, but loose head. 

Agree it might be steep attack angle and probably bottoming out much later as I do get a much lower ball flight than others.

Time for a lesson perhaps.

Brand new OEM ?   I'd send it back for sure.  I know most if not all of the Taylor Made are assembled in the States at selected assembly center.  Most likely there is a bad batch of epoxy.  There had been some questionable epoxy floating around.  No matter of the branding after packaging for smaller quantity. 

 

[vandyland]

On this ferrule creep question (I love reviving old threads) does anyone have experience with BB&F ferrules and if they creep less than a standard ferrule? Or if it is truly just a matter of all ferrules are made of the same material and thus, all other things being equal (shaft and ferrule braiding, installation, the conditions the club is kept in) all ferrules creep at the same rate?

[DonnieGolfs]

On 4/28/2020 at 12:27 PM, Getoffmylawn said:

Maybe a newbie question, I apologize.

This is my Callaway XR16 3-wood. I love the club and generally hit it very well, but three times now I've had the ferrule "fixed"...it keeps creeping up the shaft.  A number of questions, mostly why does this happen, and does this indicate the head is not stable?  The head does not appear in any way loose or open.  I won't say I center it every time, but I definitely don't hit the big ball before the little ball, and I miss to the toe not the heel when I do miss.

I know it probably doesn't impact performance (right?) but it aggravates the hell out of me just looking at it.  If it does impact performance, tell me so I can justify going to get a new one!  Ha ha…

Thanks.

Don't know how I got to this post but I have the same club and had the issue. Haha

[McGolf]

From my experience ferrule creep comes from the exposure to the heat and cold. Primarily from the heat in the trunk and going out to play. Temperature changes combined with little is done to a ferrule in production to keep it from moving except the fit to the shaft. In most cases when removing heads from shafts on OEMs there is little evidence that a ferrule was actually glued to the head. This is not 100% but I'd say a very percentage. 

The "fix" to this again is a dab of superglue at the top of the hosel for the ferrule to seat against and it should be done. Or if doing a repair, add some epoxy to the ID of the ferrule to ensure a good bond to the shaft and head at assembly.