Jump to content
TESTERS WANTED! ×

Club or Ball Technology - what do you think has had the biggest impact.


Recommended Posts

I am sure this question had been asked before but with every new development things may change. So we all know the club technology has made hitting the ball more constantly better but what have you think has advanced the increased length to the modern game.

During this isolation period I have watched several videos and read a number of articles that asked the question - What has been the biggest improvement in golf equipment, the Ball or the Clubs.

In them they had clubs and balls from the late 70"s early 80's - Persimmon Woods and blades effectively and Balata pro golf balls vs the latest technology Drivers and Irons and Pro v1 golf balls. Add a swing robots and in one case 4 golfers a pro, a 3, 12, 24 handicap golfers and the latest Trackman.

I know that after a forced 7 years hiatus (2006-2013) I found a difference. I had always played with Titleist Ball so I asked at the pro shop for the latest balls and was given Pro V. Imaging my surprise when I hit a 8 iron in to the green and missed it by 10M. I initially thought I must have got it thin but it did feel that way. After it happened 3-4 times I realised that it had to be the ball as the clubs were the same.    

Edited by Firebird
mistype

Callaway Epic Flash 9 Degree

Callaway Epic Flash 3 wood 15 Degree

Callaway Apex 21 Hybrid 19 Degree

Callaway Steelhead Pro 4-AW Irons

Cleveland 54 Degree Wedge Steel Shaft

Recoil Graphite Shafts in all Callaway

Cobra Vintage Series Stingray 40

Preferred ball - Seed 001

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm going with balls for the bigger change in difference. At least once we went from persimmon woods to metal/titanium/whatever else they make clubs out of these days.

I really believe that if the ruling bodies wanted to roll back distance for professional and top amateur events, they could easily have companies come up with balls that maintain the feel around the greens and cut distance 5-10%.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, rjwyborski said:

I'm going with balls for the bigger change in difference. At least once we went from persimmon woods to metal/titanium/whatever else they make clubs out of these days.

I really believe that if the ruling bodies wanted to roll back distance for professional and top amateur events, they could easily have companies come up with balls that maintain the feel around the greens and cut distance 5-10%.

I read some where that the R & A is looking at reducing the PGA driving average from 310 to 280 yards through changes to golf ball design. The issue is that most golf course cannot afford too so simply cannot be lengthened, the other alternative is simply to make 540-560yd par 4's.

Callaway Epic Flash 9 Degree

Callaway Epic Flash 3 wood 15 Degree

Callaway Apex 21 Hybrid 19 Degree

Callaway Steelhead Pro 4-AW Irons

Cleveland 54 Degree Wedge Steel Shaft

Recoil Graphite Shafts in all Callaway

Cobra Vintage Series Stingray 40

Preferred ball - Seed 001

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've never heard anyone say club.

Take Dead Aim

Take Dead Aim

Driver: PXG 0211 10.5* 

Fairway: Titleist 917 F3 15*

Hybrid: Adams Idea Pro Boxer Gold 18*

Irons: MacGregor MT-86 Pro

Wedges: Vokey 50/54/58

Putter: SeeMore X2 Costa del Mar

Ball: Srixon Z-Star

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The innovative technology in the driver design had changed the face of this game, for sure.  It used to be the best of the stronger golfers could drive over 250 yards on the average, but today that is a requirement for anyone holds a single digit handicap index.

Not to ignore the golf ball to maximize the new driver design.   I like it for the most part of it's durability without sacrificing performance.  I went through the balata era through the first generation of the two piece rock, to the craze of the first generation of the "lady's golf ball" , to the modern multi layer design.  One could find a golf ball which will best suited for the individual's golf game, at a comparatively bargain price than a few decades ago.  

Since the driver and golf ball design had reached the conforming limit set forth by the governing body, the next possible evolution will be the shaft material. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well being a younger guy, I did not play regular golf with balatas, persimmons, old school irons (I've hit them but never had to play several rounds or a season with them) So my feedback is from some discussions and some research I have done.

The biggest Improvements in clubs in the last 50 years have been Persimmons to hollow Woods, Steel to graphite driver shafts, iron perimeter weight, and solid core golf ball.

The Hollow metal wood gave an advantage of more distance and better forgiveness. Graphite shafts brought more distance. Perimeter weighting brought iron forgiveness, and the golf ball combined distance, spin, control.

Each one of these club improvements was very important step in golf, but in that same amount of time Fitness has increased immensly and courses have better tools to maintain the grass.

I do think the solid core ball may be the most significant single change in golf but there are hundreds of changes and additions to golf that make it the amazing game we all love. If it hadn't we would be playing with hickory shafts and featheries around an empty field.

Using MyGolfSpy mobile app

Driver:  Ben Hogan GS53
4W:  Maltby KE4 
2i: Maltby KE4 FDI 
4-PW:  Maltby TS-1 - C-Taper 120g 
50,54,58: Maltby TSW

Putter:  L.A.B. DF2.1 Accra Shaft 2023 Forum Testers - L.A.B. Putters
Ball: Mixed prefer ProV1 or Snell
Handicap: 9.2  -  Best Score: 72 (E) Springdale CC, Canton NC -2022

2020 Forum Tester - Ben Hogan GS53 Driver

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have to go with the golf ball. I saw something where they said Jack Nicklaus had a swing speed of 118 that's very similar to a lot of the guys now a days. Are these guys saved by greater forgiveness on the club heads sure. But building the ball to preform better under those types of speeds is what has made the difference.

Sent from my SM-G950U using MyGolfSpy mobile app

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll have to chime in with... both clubs and balls are most impactful and improved for everyone. Especially for us amateurs.

I've been playing for over 50 years. (65 now) Obviously I started my life long obsession using blades, and other clubs made from wood, old miniature golf style putter and rock- balls of some kind. Golf courses back in "the day" were not that long. 6500 yds. was long for example. But, they fit and suited the distances the players and their equipment produced. Sure, newer courses have pushed out lengths but that hasn't effected me. Just because a designer builds a course tipping out a 7500 yds doesn't mean me or anyone else has or should to play from that distance. ie... most amateurs. Modern day clubs and balls have had a huge impact. I know this because I made the gradual-evolving transition year over year and decade over decade from the old days to the modern era. Forget what the TV Pros on the 3-club tour do. Don't make the mistake of comparing your game to theirs. I can promise you most guys/amateurs/forum members would not buy balata balls if available the same as they gobble up PV1's today. One thinly hit shot or one into a tree or off a cart path and balatas were ruined. If modern "tour" balls performed that way today no one would buy them. And...modern balls do not go/fly/carry too far today. If you think they do for your game you might want to consider buying reduced flight balls. And while you're at it get yourself a set of "old" blades and a wooden driver. 🏌️‍♂️

My Sun Mountain bag currently includes:   TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png 771CSI 5i - PW and TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png PFC Micro Tour-c 52°, 56°, 60 wedges

                                                                               :755178188_TourEdge: EXS 10.5*, TWGTLogo2.png.06c802075f4d211691d88895b3f34b75.png 929-HS FW4 16.5* 

                                                                                :edel-golf-1: Willimette w/GolfPride Contour

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have to go with the golf ball. I saw something where they said Jack Nicklaus had a swing speed of 118 that's very similar to a lot of the guys now a days. Are these guys saved by greater forgiveness on the club heads sure. But building the ball to preform better under those types of speeds is what has made the difference.

Sent from my SM-G950U using MyGolfSpy mobile app


Yea there's Nicklaus interview somewhere out there where he talks about the difference in the ball.

Take Dead Aim

Take Dead Aim

Driver: PXG 0211 10.5* 

Fairway: Titleist 917 F3 15*

Hybrid: Adams Idea Pro Boxer Gold 18*

Irons: MacGregor MT-86 Pro

Wedges: Vokey 50/54/58

Putter: SeeMore X2 Costa del Mar

Ball: Srixon Z-Star

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No piece of equipment made me go “what is that?” like a 3 piece urethane ball.

It was a 2-day tournament my junior year of college. Day 1, I played my Titleist Professional 90 and played ok. Day 2 on the tee box, coach hands us a sleeve of a ball I had never seen. It was the first generation 392 ProV1. He said just play it.

Long story short...every tee shot was 10-20 yards longer. I was carrying the ball further and I shot level par to finish top 10.

I finished that round with the same ball and I had a lot of questions. Nick, what is this and where are the rest of them

I had never used and still haven’t used a single piece of equipment that wow’ed me like that ball.

  • Titleist TSi3 Fujikura Speeder NX Blue 60X
  • TaylorMade SIM2 3 wood Fujilkura Ventus Blue 7-X
  • Titleist U505 2 Tensei 1K Black 85 X
  • Titleist T100 4-P Nippon Modus 3 120X
  • PING S159 50-S 55-H 59-T DG X100
  • Vokey SM8 50, SM9 54 & 60  Nippon Modus 3 120s
  • L.A.B. MEZZ Max Broom Accra 47" 79.5*
  • Srixon Z-Star XV 

Currently testing the 2024 PING S159 wedges…

https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/63483-testers-announced-ping-s159-wedges/

Was testing, still loving the 2023 Titleist T100 Irons 4-P

https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/60456-titleist-t-series-irons-2023-forum-review/

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

... Tough question. While going from a MacGregor M85 persimmon wood to a Taylor Made Pittsburg Persimmon was a good change, comparing the M85 to a modern 460cc driver is such a huge change. I can't argue with the solid ball being a major change from balata, but no doubt my scores would be lower with a balata ball and a graphite shafted Cobra Extreme driver than using a TP5 and a M85 steel shafted persimmon wood. 

Driver:     :taylormade-small:  Qi10 10.5* ... Ventus Red Velocore 5R
Fairway:  :cobra-small: Aerojet 3/5 ... Kai'li Blue 60R
Hybrids:  :ping-small:      430 Hybrid 22*... Steelfiber 780Hy 
                  :taylormade-small:  DHy #4 ... Diamana LTD 65r 
Irons:       :titleist-small:         '23 T200 5-Pw ... Steelfiber i95r
Wedges:  :taylormade-small: Vokey 50*/54*/58* ... Steelfiber i95r
Putter:     :cobra-small:  Sport-60 33" 
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Guests
Guest Delete
On 4/30/2020 at 6:00 PM, Firebird said:

I am sure this question had been asked before but with every new development things may change. So we all know the club technology has made hitting the ball more constantly better but what have you think has advanced the increased length to the modern game.

During this isolation period I have watched several videos and read a number of articles that asked the question - What has been the biggest improvement in golf equipment, the Ball or the Clubs.

In them they had clubs and balls from the late 70"s early 80's - Persimmon Woods and blades effectively and Balata pro golf balls vs the latest technology Drivers and Irons and Pro v1 golf balls. Add a swing robots and in one case 4 golfers a pro, a 3, 12, 24 handicap golfers and the latest Trackman.

I know that after a forced 7 years hiatus (2006-2013) I found a difference. I had always played with Titleist Ball so I asked at the pro shop for the latest balls and was given Pro V. Imaging my surprise when I hit a 8 iron in to the green and missed it by 10M. I initially thought I must have got it thin but it did feel that way. After it happened 3-4 times I realised that it had to be the ball as the clubs were the same.    

My research on this is that the newer balls actually spin just a bit less which optimizes distance on all clubs. Plus the newer balls are more efficient in transferring energy which means higher ball speeds.

The regulations on balls has been the same for at least 20 years but the tech available to the manufacturers has greatly increased to make it easier for the ball manufacturers to measure their improvements quantifiably. 

My opinion is that the new irons have thinner faces that launch the ball with more ball speed than older irons. The last 8 years have seen the most gains with very little limitations coming from the USGA. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, I sat next to the country manager for Acushnet (Titleist) at a charity event a few years ago and he said the the Pro V1 was the first ball to reach the maximum speed of 76.2 m per second. Now they were working on ways to get it to he max speed quicker.

Interesting thing with regard to irons. I still have all my old sets, which includes Blades and CB's and the difference between them distance wise hitting my preferred ball Pro v1x is minimal. Blades longer irons are generally 5-10m Shorter, however by the time we get to the wedges they are the same as I always have hit Clevland blade wedges.

Callaway Epic Flash 9 Degree

Callaway Epic Flash 3 wood 15 Degree

Callaway Apex 21 Hybrid 19 Degree

Callaway Steelhead Pro 4-AW Irons

Cleveland 54 Degree Wedge Steel Shaft

Recoil Graphite Shafts in all Callaway

Cobra Vintage Series Stingray 40

Preferred ball - Seed 001

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I still have my Wilson Persimmon Driver and Blades for the 70's and with a Pro V1x I used to be able too hit it 260m. With the irons there is a no more than <10m difference when compared to my CB irons.

The one big difference between my old driver and my latest is that the shaft is 2.5" longer. Why because the sweet spot on the latest drivers is so much bigger. That also applies to the latest CB irons. You miss the sweet spot on an old driver and you are lucky to go 200m. Miss it on the latest driver, you may loose 20-30M. 

Callaway Epic Flash 9 Degree

Callaway Epic Flash 3 wood 15 Degree

Callaway Apex 21 Hybrid 19 Degree

Callaway Steelhead Pro 4-AW Irons

Cleveland 54 Degree Wedge Steel Shaft

Recoil Graphite Shafts in all Callaway

Cobra Vintage Series Stingray 40

Preferred ball - Seed 001

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The last objective data I’ve seen says the ball advancements had more impact and over a short period from 2000-2004. But clubs, specifically drivers, advanced almost as much from 1992-2000 - a slower rate of change. It seems athleticism began with Tiger around 2000, but mostly only with touring pros. FWIW.

8AEFBEFB-91E8-40CD-8B5D-9259994FC9D0.jpeg

  • Titleist TSR2 11° HZRDUS Red CB 50 6.0 w Lamkin UTx Midsize
  • Titleist TSR2 16.5º HZRDUS Red 60 CB 6.0 & TSR2 21º HZRDUS Black 4G 70 6.0 w Lamkin UTx Midsize
  • Mizuno JPX923 HMP 4-GW, T22 54.12WS, T22 58.04DC w Lamkin ST+2 Hybrid Midsize
  • Evnroll EV5.3
  • Maxfli Tour & ProV1
  • Ping Pioneer - MGI Zip Navigator AT
  • Payntr X 002 LE, Ecco Biom C4, FJ DryJoys
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Middler said:

The last objective data I’ve seen says the ball advancements had more impact and over a short period from 2000-2004. But clubs, specifically drivers, advanced almost as much from 1992-2000 - a slower rate of change. It seems athleticism began with Tiger around 2000, but mostly only with touring pros. FWIW.

8AEFBEFB-91E8-40CD-8B5D-9259994FC9D0.jpeg

This graph attempts to isolate introductions of key technological advancements but that is not really possible from 1998-2004 as there was a lot of overlapping change occurring during that time (mass adoption of multilayer ball, larger driver heads, weight reduction via composite shafts, and the largest increases in COR to date). From an equipment standpoint, all of these factors saw the largest advancements/increases in adoption during this period even though the some of the technology had been available in for many years prior.

:titelist-small:  TS2 9.5

:titelist-small:  909F2 15.5

:titelist-small:  690.CB 3-PW

:titelist-small:  Vokey SM5 50, 56

image.png.e50b7e7a9b18feff4720d7b223a2013d.png   Works Versa 1W

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, storm319 said:

This graph attempts to isolate introductions of key technological advancements but that is not really possible from 1998-2004 as there was a lot of overlapping change occurring during that time (mass adoption of multilayer ball, larger driver heads, weight reduction via composite shafts, and the largest increases in COR to date). From an equipment standpoint, all of these factors saw the largest advancements/increases in adoption during this period even though the some of the technology had been available in for many years prior.

Of course that’s true. However the data is all from pros only, and they would probably adopt changes more in sync than the general public. Please share your better data...

  • Titleist TSR2 11° HZRDUS Red CB 50 6.0 w Lamkin UTx Midsize
  • Titleist TSR2 16.5º HZRDUS Red 60 CB 6.0 & TSR2 21º HZRDUS Black 4G 70 6.0 w Lamkin UTx Midsize
  • Mizuno JPX923 HMP 4-GW, T22 54.12WS, T22 58.04DC w Lamkin ST+2 Hybrid Midsize
  • Evnroll EV5.3
  • Maxfli Tour & ProV1
  • Ping Pioneer - MGI Zip Navigator AT
  • Payntr X 002 LE, Ecco Biom C4, FJ DryJoys
Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, Middler said:

Of course that’s true. However the data is all from pros only, and they would probably adopt changes more in sync than the general public. Please share your better data...

The point is that there was too much change going on during the period of 1998-2004 to be able to attribute gains to any one variable so the graph is a bit disingenuous to imply that the gains from 2000-2004 were attributed to the ball (basically there is no reliable data that will show a single variable's isolated impact on distance during that time).

Keep in mind that while pros do adopt new equipment from their sponsored OEM fairly quickly today, many OEMs at the time were not early adopters to new trends. One example of this is with the multilayer urethane ball that was first put into play on tour in either late 1997 or early 1998, but Titleist staffers who were the overwhelming majority were stuck with a wound ball due to contractual obligations until October 2000 when the ProV1 was made available. 

Another example is driver head size. Ping was the first in 1998 with the TISI to release a 300+ cc driver head as well as being the instigator for the implementation of the USGA's COR limit. Callaway and Taylormade did not cross this threshold until 2000, Titleist in 2001, and Cobra in 2002 which is factor in the jump in distance on tour during that time (along with weight reduction via composite shafts). 

:titelist-small:  TS2 9.5

:titelist-small:  909F2 15.5

:titelist-small:  690.CB 3-PW

:titelist-small:  Vokey SM5 50, 56

image.png.e50b7e7a9b18feff4720d7b223a2013d.png   Works Versa 1W

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd say the ball has had the marginally bigger impact. If you think about how professionals actually played balata balls and look at club specs from yesteryear, you'll see that they are quite different from what we have today. The way clubs are designed and spec'd today is a direct response to the modern golf ball, which is why 7 & 8-degree driver heads on tour are a rarity - players aren't having to fight spin as much as they used to. This may be an oversimplification, but if you listen to any interview where Tiger discusses how he used to have to play the balata balls vs. the modern golf ball it's the same story. I'll trust that Cat knows a thing or two. 😉

Driver: :mizuno-small: ST190 9.5* Fujikura Atmos Blue 5S
Fairway Wood: :mizuno-small: ST190 15* Fujikura Atmos Blue 6S
Hybrid: :mizuno-small: CLK 17* Fujikura Speeder EVO HB
Irons: :bridgestone-small: J40 CB (3-PW) Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100
Wedges: :taylormade-small: Milled Grind 2 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold S200
Putter: :odyssey-small: Tri-Hot 5k Two 34"
Bag: :titleist-small: Players 5 Stand Bag
Ball: Maxfli Tour

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ball.  Most people dont realize just how good the modern golf ball is in how it is very low spin off the driver but very high spin off of the wedges.

IMO, most people who are a single digit cap could put a set of persimmon woods and blades in their bag and still shoot a very respectable score.  Id be willing to bet that if those same people used the latest and greatest clubs but had to use a wound ball, they would struggle to score because the ball would spin like crazy off the driver and they would spend all day looking for their ball in the rough, not to mention it would be shorter off of all clubs.

"I suppose its better to be a master of 7 than to be vaguely familiar with 14." - Chick Evans

Whats in my Sun Mountain 2.5+ stand bag?

Woods: Tommy Armour Atomic 10.5* 

Hybrid: Mizuno MP Fli-Hi 3H

Irons: Mizuno T-Zoid True 5, 7 and 9-irons

Wedge: Mizuno S18 54* and Top Flite chipper

Putter: Mizuno Bettinardi A-02

Ball: Maxfli Tour X

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ball.  The advancements in ball technology allowed club manufacturers to do more with drivers in terms of forgiveness.  Like someone else said, we all used to play 6.5* Great Big Berthas.  Now we can have a higher lofted driver and not add any spin, but I think this is because the ball technology not the club.  The club helps but the ball is the reason.  Hit todays driver and a balata ball and it will have spin rates that are through the roof.

Ping G425 LST 10.5* - Rogue White 130

Ping G425 LST 14.5 - Rogue White 130

TaylorMade SIM 19* Tensei Pro White

Srixon ZX5 4&5 iron Modus 120

Srixon ZX7 6-AW Modus 120

Vokey SM8 54* 60* Modus 125 wedge

EvnRoll ER5B

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, storm319 said:

The point is that there was too much change going on during the period of 1998-2004 to be able to attribute gains to any one variable so the graph is a bit disingenuous to imply that the gains from 2000-2004 were attributed to the ball (basically there is no reliable data that will show a single variable's isolated impact on distance during that time).

Keep in mind that while pros do adopt new equipment from their sponsored OEM fairly quickly today, many OEMs at the time were not early adopters to new trends. One example of this is with the multilayer urethane ball that was first put into play on tour in either late 1997 or early 1998, but Titleist staffers who were the overwhelming majority were stuck with a wound ball due to contractual obligations until October 2000 when the ProV1 was made available. 

Another example is driver head size. Ping was the first in 1998 with the TISI to release a 300+ cc driver head as well as being the instigator for the implementation of the USGA's COR limit. Callaway and Taylormade did not cross this threshold until 2000, Titleist in 2001, and Cobra in 2002 which is factor in the jump in distance on tour during that time (along with weight reduction via composite shafts). 

Again, we all know there haven’t been discrete changes. Interesting you choose to attack the one attempt at data but all the anecdotal answers are just fine, most happen to agree with the answer the chart suggests. Do you have better objective information?

  • Titleist TSR2 11° HZRDUS Red CB 50 6.0 w Lamkin UTx Midsize
  • Titleist TSR2 16.5º HZRDUS Red 60 CB 6.0 & TSR2 21º HZRDUS Black 4G 70 6.0 w Lamkin UTx Midsize
  • Mizuno JPX923 HMP 4-GW, T22 54.12WS, T22 58.04DC w Lamkin ST+2 Hybrid Midsize
  • Evnroll EV5.3
  • Maxfli Tour & ProV1
  • Ping Pioneer - MGI Zip Navigator AT
  • Payntr X 002 LE, Ecco Biom C4, FJ DryJoys
Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, Middler said:

Again, we all know there haven’t been discrete changes. Interesting you choose to attack the one attempt at data but all the anecdotal answers are just fine, most happen to agree with the answer the chart suggests. Do you have better objective information?


Your data may be objective, but you've attached assumptions to the data that are rather less objective.  His observations are no less valid due to his not having "objective data" than the assumptions added to the data.

Unless we strip it down to testing each factor independently, it all fits the same category.  Even the 5.6 yards change in the Driving Distance stat from 1999 to 2002 for those players who played in both seasons that I like to mention has noise in play.  

Speaking to the thread topic....  I find the clubs to be the biggest change.  For me, spin rate changes are not enough to outweigh the considerable changes in MOI, shaft tech, etc.  The actual ball speed difference between wound balls and solid core is not nearly as profound as some suggest, when you compare new to new.  Dean Snell mentions this in his video discussing the distance thing, and early ball tests show the difference between the Strata and Pro V1 and balls like the Elite or Professional to be surprisingly minor.

I managed to luck into a couple dozen Asian market, and surprisingly new, Maxfli HT-100s several years ago.  I was able to take them out on the course and compare them side by side with newer golfballs.  In terms of carry, the differences were not that large.  I still have a sleeve of those balls, and now six to eight years later, they're a considerably shorter than the solid core balls I'm using.

It's all very anecdotal, of course, but at this point, can't do more than that, considering the manufacturing truths in the modern golfball world.  😉

Driver: TM Original One 11.5* set to 11*, Aldila NV75 X, 43.5" -or- SpeedZone, HZRDUS Black 75 6.5, 43.5"
3w:  Cobra King LTD, RIP Beta 90, 42" -or- Stage 2 Tour, NV105 X, 42.5"
2h or 3h:  TaylorMade Stage 2 Tour, Aldila NV105 S -or- RIP Alpha 105 S
Irons:  3-PW Mizuno MP37, Recoil Proto 125 F4 (reshaft in progress, slowly); 1i & 3-PW Golden Ram TW276, NV105 S; 2-PW Golden Ram TW282, RIP Tour 115 R
GW: Dynacraft Dual Milled CNC 52*, Steelfiber 125 S; Scratch 8620 DS 53*, Steelfiber 125 S
SW:  Ram TG-898 56*, DGX ss2x; Ram Tom Watson 55*, DGX ss2x; Wilson Staff PMP 58*, DGS; PM Grind 19 58*, stock shaft
Putter:  Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34"; Ping Scottsdale TR Craz-E, 35"; Cleveland Huntington Beach 1, 35"
Ball:  Wilson Staff Duo Professional, Bridgestone Tour B-RXS, Callaway Chrome Soft

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, NRJyzr said:


Your data may be objective, but you've attached assumptions to the data that are rather less objective.  His observations are no less valid due to his not having "objective data" than the assumptions added to the data.

Unless we strip it down to testing each factor independently, it all fits the same category.  Even the 5.6 yards change in the Driving Distance stat from 1999 to 2002 for those players who played in both seasons that I like to mention has noise in play.  

Speaking to the thread topic....  I find the clubs to be the biggest change.  For me, spin rate changes are not enough to outweigh the considerable changes in MOI, shaft tech, etc.  The actual ball speed difference between wound balls and solid core is not nearly as profound as some suggest, when you compare new to new.  Dean Snell mentions this in his video discussing the distance thing, and early ball tests show the difference between the Strata and Pro V1 and balls like the Elite or Professional to be surprisingly minor.

I managed to luck into a couple dozen Asian market, and surprisingly new, Maxfli HT-100s several years ago.  I was able to take them out on the course and compare them side by side with newer golfballs.  In terms of carry, the differences were not that large.  I still have a sleeve of those balls, and now six to eight years later, they're a considerably shorter than the solid core balls I'm using.

It's all very anecdotal, of course, but at this point, can't do more than that, considering the manufacturing truths in the modern golfball world.  😉

You missed the point but carry on...

  • Titleist TSR2 11° HZRDUS Red CB 50 6.0 w Lamkin UTx Midsize
  • Titleist TSR2 16.5º HZRDUS Red 60 CB 6.0 & TSR2 21º HZRDUS Black 4G 70 6.0 w Lamkin UTx Midsize
  • Mizuno JPX923 HMP 4-GW, T22 54.12WS, T22 58.04DC w Lamkin ST+2 Hybrid Midsize
  • Evnroll EV5.3
  • Maxfli Tour & ProV1
  • Ping Pioneer - MGI Zip Navigator AT
  • Payntr X 002 LE, Ecco Biom C4, FJ DryJoys
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, this is definitely anecdotal, I had the opportunity to try an old Big Bertha 9.5 (maybe from 1993) on a local range and I couldn't hit the thing.  Every one of them low and left.

Clearly had much better success with the current driver, 1.5" longer,  lighter shaft, larger head, etc.    

Who has data on performance of the range ball over the years?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/8/2020 at 8:06 AM, Middler said:

Again, we all know there haven’t been discrete changes. Interesting you choose to attack the one attempt at data but all the anecdotal answers are just fine, most happen to agree with the answer the chart suggests. Do you have better objective information?

Please don’t misunderstand, there is no problem with the USGAs tracking of tour distance trends, but the assumptive overlay of equipment trends in an attempt at isolated correlation to the distance increases is not only inaccurate but disingenuous (IMHO all of the USGAs distance studies have been attempts at finding a problem to fit their desire to rollback the golf ball, not an objective attempt at determining if their is actually a problem). 

As mentioned earlier, there were multiple variables that contributed to the above average distance gains during that time period and it is impossible to objectively isolate any single variable’s impact in that situation unless you had a sizable sample of tour players whose only change during that period was the ball (which is highly unlikely).

Edited by storm319

:titelist-small:  TS2 9.5

:titelist-small:  909F2 15.5

:titelist-small:  690.CB 3-PW

:titelist-small:  Vokey SM5 50, 56

image.png.e50b7e7a9b18feff4720d7b223a2013d.png   Works Versa 1W

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have mixed feelings on this topic.  I have a friend that plays with hickory shaft clubs and ProV1’s.  He hits the ball father than most due using modern clubs.  In his case, it looks like the ball until he pulls out an old ball from the 60’s and does the same thing. (he is good)

For me, a slow swing player, I find it is a combination of balls and clubs.  Balls are much better than 20 years ago and the clubs are too.  It is a combination of the chicken and the egg.  Take better balls and clubs, throw in a launch monitor, swing coaches and physical fitness and they are all part of the formula. 

  • Driver _ Ping G400 Max
  • Woods _ Ping G410 3 & 5 | Cleveland Launcher XL HALO 7
  • Hybrid _ Titleist 818 H1 5 
  • Irons _ Titleist T300 6-GW
  • Wedges _ Titleist SM9 52F & 56S
  • Putter _ Odyssey Dual Force Rossie 2 or Rife Two Bar Hybrid
  • Distance _ Bushnell Phantom 2 GPS | Precision Pro NX7 Pro
  • Ball _ Titleist Pro V1 yellow
  • GHIN _ HCP floats between 8 & 12

:ping-small:  :cleveland-small: :titelist-small:  :vokey-small:   :odyssey-small:  :rife-putters-1:  :918457628_PrecisionPro:  :sunmountain: :Clicgear:   :footjoy-small:  

"Never bet against an old man with old clubs that have new grips"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...

Balls if you're comparing older technology (i.e. balata, wound or liquid center balls) with newer technology (solid core).  But, if you solely look at today's technology, I'd give the nod more towards equipment, although the difference between a tour level ball and a 2 piece ball is pretty big IMO.

Driver: :callaway-small: Rogue ST Max (10.5* set at -1 and neutral) -- Mitsubishi Tensai Blue 55g R shaft

Fairway: :callaway-small: Rogue ST Max 3 wood (16.5*) and Heaven Wood (20*)-- Tensai Blue 55g R shaft

Hybrids: :callaway-small: Rogue ST Max 5H (23*)--Tensai Blue 55g R shaft

Irons:  :callaway-small: Apex CF19 6-9, PW, AW -- KBS Tour Graphite  TGI 70 shafts R +1/2 inch 3* upright

Wedges: Edison 53* and  57* KBS PGI 80 Graphite +1/2 inch 2* upright

Putter: L.A.B. DF 2.1 -- BGT Stability shaft

Ball:  Maxfli TourX...Golf Bag: :ping-small: Pioneer...Shoes: :footjoy-small: Hyperflex... Glove: Red Rooster Feather

 

My Photography can be seen at Smugmug

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...