Where Do You Stand?

[PlaidJacket]

Have any forum members considered recently or otherwise: To only buy (or start buying) equipment made in America or sourced from friendly - responsible - trading partners? I'll lead off...

My answer is Yes! Keep in mind that heads, shafts, grips, etc might only be "assembled" in America and probably are. So where do all the various components for your clubs come from? Does it matter to you? It does to me and going forward I'll be looking at my options. For example my putter is made in America/Texas by Edel. Everything else including my bag is probably sourced elsewhere. Ok... I think titleist and bridgestone balls are made in America. Aren't Sub7 for example made entirely in the USA? What others are there?

[TR1PTIK]

As much as I'm for supporting US manufacturing, I'd never use that as a basis for making purchase decisions - not for golf at least. That said, I do love the fact that my Bridgestone golf balls are made in the USA!

[dlow206]

I wouldn’t exclusively buy made in America but do support and purchase things made here.

[ZenGolfer]

I try to support made in America when it makes sense.  Its not practical or realistic for all things though.  I think that a lot of people who preach about buying made in the USA also have no problem doing things like buying cheap meat at Wal-Mart instead of shopping small and shopping local.

IMO, a lot look at where their hard goods come from but dont consider so much buying from local butcher shops or farmer's markets, nor do they look at buying their foods from sources that are ethical, humane or sustainable.

When it comes to golf, I like supporting made in USA when I can, although its getting to be harder and harder.  Im now to the point where I like trying to support golf companies that are based in the US at least.  For me, that means trying to support companies like Callaway and Ping when possible, although Mizuno and Bridgestone have a huge prescence and operations in the US, even though they are Japanese companies.

As someone who works for Honda and has loved Japanese cars for the past 35 years, I know all about how much Japanese companies have invested in building their products here in the US.

[RickyBobby_PR]

Will do as much made in America as possible but with golf that’s pretty hard. Most products are manufactured overseas and shipped here.

ive always played titleist with some other brands mixed in here and there so that won’t be a problem

[DiscipleofPenick]

I don't believe there's a titanium smelter/foundry in the US so good luck.

At least Titleist, Callaway, and Bridgestone have their ball plants in America.

Take Dead Aim

[tony@CIC]

While I'm a big supporter of USA made products, there occasionally is a quandary. For instance let's say you just went through a fitting and hands down offshore made products came in at the top of the list for dispersion and distance. The lone USA product was a distant last. Which do you buy given the price is the same?




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[PlaidJacket]

 

29 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Most products are manufactured overseas and shipped here.

Oh, I guess overseas means places like England, Switzerland or Spain. Places like that? I've heard that's where most of the golf equipment is made. Well... perhaps Callaway, Cobra, Ping , and other US based companies will bring their Mfg. back to the US where it should be. Might cost a little more but it'd be worth it. Right? And think of all the new jobs created. That'd be good too.

[LeftyHawk]

Interesting topic. I can honestly say I've really never giver a thought as to where things were made, I was always looking at what was the best for my game. With this virus thing going on it may be time to do some research.....When looking for new clubs last year I did go with Ping due to the fact that they're in Arizona and their customer service is excellent. 

Chris

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, PlaidJacket said:

 

Oh, I guess overseas means places like England, Switzerland or Spain. Places like that? I've heard that's where most of the golf equipment is made. Well... perhaps Callaway, Cobra, Ping , and other US based companies will bring their Mfg. back to the US where it should be. Might cost a little more but it'd be worth it. Right? And think of all the new jobs created. That'd be good too.

It’s not as easy as that. They need to find place to manufacturer the clubs, transfer the molds from overseas, then convince shaft companies to do the same, train, hire staff to do the work. 
 

As much as I would like to see it the undertaking by a company to do it is a lot. We see people on here and other forums or social media complaining about the price of clubs. Imagine the cheapest clubs being $1200-1300. How many brands would lose business. 

[Wedgie]

Don’t even get me started on this topic but yes, I will pay a lot of attention as to where products are made moving forward.


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[Mr_Theoo]

Probably not going to go out if my way to do so. If it is then it’s a plus

[RickyBobby_PR]

There are smaller companies that are looking at sourcing parts in the country. Groove it brush is a vet owned company that currently sources in China but are looking at moving here. There was another small company I saw that was doing the same but don’t recall who it was.

Ive seen other companies in the fitness realm looking to source here. 

[TR1PTIK]

14 hours ago, PlaidJacket said:

 

Oh, I guess overseas means places like England, Switzerland or Spain. Places like that? I've heard that's where most of the golf equipment is made. Well... perhaps Callaway, Cobra, Ping , and other US based companies will bring their Mfg. back to the US where it should be. Might cost a little more but it'd be worth it. Right? And think of all the new jobs created. That'd be good too.

I'd be all for US companies bringing manufacturing back to the states - who knows, it may even be possible after seeing the disruptions caused by COVID. But... it's going to require changes in expectations - either what consumers are willing to pay, or what workers are willing to earn. Either way, there are numerous other pieces to the puzzle that will impede any progress (i.e. if workers are going to earn less, then how will that impact their ability to afford housing and food among other essentials? If consumers pay more, how will that impact consumer demand and will there even be enough interest to keep operations running?). These are just the things I could quickly think of off the top of my head - many, many other things to be considered.

[RickyBobby_PR]

32 minutes ago, TR1PTIK said:

I'd be all for US companies bringing manufacturing back to the states - who knows, it may even be possible after seeing the disruptions caused by COVID. But... it's going to require changes in expectations - either what consumers are willing to pay, or what workers are willing to earn. Either way, there are numerous other pieces to the puzzle that will impede any progress (i.e. if workers are going to earn less, then how will that impact their ability to afford housing and food among other essentials? If consumers pay more, how will that impact consumer demand and will there even be enough interest to keep operations running?). These are just the things I could quickly think of off the top of my head - many, many other things to be considered.

Lots of unknowns when starting fresh in a new place. The cost of moving the machinery here is probably as expensive as making it all new plus the disruption in product while the relocation occurs will impact everything. 

[PMookie]

I’d be willing to pay a little more if companies would simply NOT produce in Communist/Dictatorial countries. Hundreds of other locations are feasible without helping these governments.


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[tony@CIC]

13 hours ago, Wedgie said:

Don’t even get me started on this topic but yes, I will pay a lot of attention as to where products are made moving forward.


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I think we all will. BTW don't look at the content of your car and where the products were made AND assembled. For instance a lot of connectors are made here (re: Dephi0 but shipped to China where they are assembled onto a wire harness and then shipped back to be installed in your car. 

[John W Sutch]

I try to purchase USA made products when possible and avoid anything made in China.

[Middler]

17 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Will do as much made in America as possible but with golf that’s pretty hard. Most products are manufactured overseas and shipped here.

ive always played titleist with some other brands mixed in here and there so that won’t be a problem

That's my understanding too, little is made here anymore outside $$$$ boutique products. All else equal I'd buy American, with almost any product. But in reality that doesn't happen often, I often have one clear favorite vs two equals, certainly when it comes to golf equipment. FWIW my putter is made in the US, but it's the only club in my bag, and I didn't choose based on where it was made.

I would love to play ProV1's exclusively, but the premium is just too much, and those aren't all made in the USA anymore anyway (some from Plant 4 Thailand). Are there any golf balls made exclusively in the US anymore?

[RickyBobby_PR]

4 minutes ago, Middler said:

That's my understanding too, little is made here anymore outside $$$$ boutique products. All else equal I'd buy American, but I doubt that could really happen - I almost always have one clear favorite vs two equals. FWIW my putter is made in the US, but it's the only club in my bag, and I didn't choose based on where it was made.

I would love to play ProV1's exclusively, but the premium is just too much, and those aren't all made in the USA anymore anyway. Are there any golf balls made exclusively in the US anymore?

Bridgestone makes their balls in USA. Callaway supposedly does. For the Prov1 they do have a non US plant but And it’s not in China, that is to help with inventory and distribution. You can look at the box and see where they were made if you buy in store. I buy my prov1s during the loyalty offer and since they are also personalized they come from the US

[ED13]

Buying products made in first world countries costs a premium.  With the high unemployment rate and many businesses that will go under how many people will be able to afford the extra costs?  Sentiment is good but not feasible for most industries.

[Tom the Golf Nut]

TaylorMade has a ball plant in South Carolina where the high end balls are manufactured. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

44 minutes ago, Tom the Golf Nut said:

TaylorMade has a ball plant in South Carolina where the high end balls are manufactured. 

Unlike titleist, bridgestone, Srixon and Callaway they don’t own the entire process. They get their cores made by somebody else. They then assemble them 

[Guest Delete]

I buy on price, quality, and fit to my game without limitations to origin. I cannot trust the quality from Chinese direct to consumer products for golf clubs. But, my American companies that import and resell I have more faith in. For instance, my Maltby clubs from golfworks.com originate in China and are assembled in the USA. 

Some websites like dhgate.com have knockoff clubs that are clones of big OEM clubs. My friend ordered a bunch of them at a fraction of the big name brand prices. However, they just don't perform very well. I limit my direct from China products to things like ball markers and head covers.

Lastly, l don't have the luxury of paying premium prices for USA products. Just playing the game is a stretch on my budget. 

[PlaidJacket]

I've contacted two companies. Tour Edge and Sub70. As expected the components (heads mostly I assume) of their clubs are made in China and "assembled - or built as they like to say in USA. I will be contacting some of the larger companies and ask the same. Although I already know the response they'll provide. If any. IMO if these companies like Callaway, TM, Ping, etc. etc start hearing from people like us as it might make them at least think about it. I've asked them - why do they do business with communist? And also a country whose stated mission is to destroy America? Why I ask. Crickets. They don't answer that.  There are plenty of "friendly" countries we can do business with if we like. Buy why do it with someone that wants to burn your house down?

If these multinational golf companies want too, they can get out of China. They got into the place with no problem didn't they? These companies can start or locate a foundry here. They could start or use a central foundry where many companies could have their heads made. It's not impossible. I can guarantee you if they announced they were getting out china they'd be applauded and their sales would increase. Can you imagine seeing on their website that they forge each head in Crossroads, USA. For example: Callaway would say they proudly make and assemble all clubs in the USA! American Made! Think of the PR bonanza. If people like us don't give a crap then neither will Callaway, TM, Ping, or any of there others. Like the old saying goes, "americans will sell us the rope we hang them with." 

[RickyBobby_PR]

11 minutes ago, PlaidJacket said:

I've contacted two companies. Tour Edge and Sub70. As expected the components (heads mostly I assume) of their clubs are made in China and "assembled - or built as they like to say in USA. I will be contacting some of the larger companies and ask the same. Although I already know the response they'll provide. If any. IMO if these companies like Callaway, TM, Ping, etc. etc start hearing from people like us as it might make them at least think about it. I've asked them - why do they do business with communist? And also a country whose stated mission is to destroy America? Why I ask. Crickets. They don't answer that.  There are plenty of "friendly" countries we can do business with if we like. Buy why do it with someone that wants to burn your house down?

If these multinational golf companies want too, they can get out of China. They got into the place with no problem didn't they? These companies can start or locate a foundry here. They could start or use a central foundry where many companies could have their heads made. It's not impossible. I can guarantee you if they announced they were getting out china they'd be applauded and their sales would increase. Can you imagine seeing on their website that they forge each head in Crossroads, USA. For example: Callaway would say they proudly make and assemble all clubs in the USA! American Made! Think of the PR bonanza. If people like us don't give a crap then neither will Callaway, TM, Ping, or any of there others. Like the old saying goes, "americans will sell us the rope we hang them with." 

The cost to start over is probably the biggest factor in why they won’t move. Some brands may have a hard time selling product as the costs would go up. On golf forums and Facebook groups there are complaints of the cost of drivers at $500-550, iron sets at $1200+ if these companies made everything in USA those prices might be the low end of the range for drivers and everything that’s currently at those prices are going to be close to what miura or PXG prices are.

I would love to see more products made here and don’t have a problem paying extra for it but not many can or choose to. 

[PlaidJacket]

3 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

I would love to see more products made here and don’t have a problem paying extra for it but not many can or choose to. 

I vote for American ingenuity and with the people of this country. We can do anything and do it well. If there is a will there is a way. I'd like to see some of these huge multinational golf companies defend their "relationship" with the chinese communist government. The curtain has been pulled back and we've all seen now what we've refused to see before. They are bad actors to put it lightly and do not wish us well. They never have. Additionally, our own government (the one we vote for) created this monster which is why manufacturing left this country. How about some incentives to bring it back? Companies were given incentives to leave - lets now incentivise them to return. Globalism is a scam. 

[Wedgie]

I work for a Swiss company.  Everything we make is expensive.  China copies our products, violate our patents and could care less when they clone our products.  I have a lawyer on retainer that basically sends out cease and desist letters on our behalf every other week.  Our American competitors do all they can to make the people purchasing their products think they are made in America when they are not.  These same American companies that are huge compared to us often claim our patents are their innovation.  It freaking drives me nuts.

That being said, with the most expensive products in the market we serve, we have grown at minimum 21% annually the last 5 years in a row.  We do it because of kick ass innovation and the people that buy our products understand they are getting a quality/innovative product and are willing to pay a premium for it.  Maybe if a golf company actually had some real innovation they could justify a higher price like we do as a Swiss manufacturer.

[RickyBobby_PR]

14 minutes ago, PlaidJacket said:

I vote for American ingenuity and with the people of this country. We can do anything and do it well. If there is a will there is a way. I'd like to see some of these huge multinational golf companies defend their "relationship" with the chinese communist government. The curtain has been pulled back and we've all seen now what we've refused to see before. They are bad actors to put it lightly and do not wish us well. They never have. Additionally, our own government (the one we vote for) created this monster which is why manufacturing left this country. How about some incentives to bring it back? Companies were given incentives to leave - lets now incentivise them to return. Globalism is a scam. 

I don’t disagree we can do it here and do it well. The machinery, dye, molds, etc that make golf clubs aren’t cheap. So to start all over is going to be very expensive. Based on mgs blog about pxg the mood for 1 iron head is 10k, they use 5/head and offer both LH and RH in all their irons. I’m guessing that other companies spend about that same 10k per mold. So they have that cost, then the cost of the machinery is probably in the hundred of thousands or more not to mention the time to have everything made and to find a company to make them. If they were to uproot their factories overseas that’s not going to be cheap either. Plus the downtime in manufacturing is going to delay product to shelves/consumers. Labor costs are higher here. 
 

Its a lot more to do with money than just ingenuity. Companies like Cobra could potentially go under due to lack of sales and income. A $799 set of irons from cobra is going to be a lot more and they are under 5% of the market share for irons. 
 

A pair of denim jeans made in 100% in the USA is $150ish. How many people are going to pay that per pair of jeans and many people have more than 1-2 pairs of jeans. 
 

Not defending the practices of using over seas factories but there’s a very big price tag to both the business and the consumer

[PlaidJacket]

6 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Not defending the practices of using over seas factories but there’s a very big price tag to both the business and the consumer

There's a much bigger price to pay by doing business with your sworn enemy too. Further - for those companies that want to continue making their goods in China; and thereby hurting America -  each product will have to be labeled, Made in Communist China. Not just China. Let's not sugar coat facts and reality.