High MOI Iron Head Experiment

[RI_Redneck]

After participating in some of the blade/cavity discussions I decided to do a little experiment this year. I have used MB or players CB designs for the last several years, mostly from Mizuno and Cobra. After discussing and reading things in the previously mentioned threads, I decided to build me a set of high MOI irons and play the remainder of the year with them to see what difference it would make in my game. Most of my MB/PCB clubs have a clubhead MOI in the 2100-2500 range. I chose the Mizuno JPX EZ cast irons (with an MOI of 3400) because I like the brand and I can pass them on to my youngest son when I'm done with them. There were some Ping heads that were slightly higher, but cost was much higher and the clubhead MOI difference was marginal. As most know, I play graphite in my irons for pain reasons and I got some Matrix Program F15 120 S flex shafts to replace the stock steel ones. I built them up this past weekend using my preferred fitting parameters (SSx1 due to online reports of playing flex) and the ever-present Grip Master Master Perforated leather stitchback grips. In other words, when I swing these I can't tell them from all my other irons.

I got my first round in yesterday at a local course (6400 yds) and wanted to give a first impression of the clubs. No ranges are open within an hour of my home due to COVID, so I was going out virgin other than dry swings in the garage. Because of hole length, I figured I wouldn't get to use these irons very many holes, so I decided to drop balls randomly as I played the round just to try some shots. I typically play a slight draw with my regular sets and I expected to have excessive draw issues with these due to the increased offset. However, that was not the case. I ended up with straight to slight push on most shots. I did play some intentional draws to flags and was able to pull these off in typical fashion. Feel at impact was a bit harder than I am used to, and the sound was a bit louder. I had, what I felt was, a 1-club wind on the back 9 and found these clubs seem to balloon more into the wind and fly farther with it, than I am used to. Something I'll have to bring into the equation as I get more rounds in. Proximity to pin avg was 37' (mostly short/long on back 9). Should get better once I'm more familiar with them. I ended up 11 over on the round mostly due to poor greenside shots on greens that were WAY FIRMER than anything else in my area. Had to resort to bump and run on almost all greenside pitches.

As I get more rounds in, I will update this thread for those who might be interested. As I mentioned above, I am doing this to see IF playing a much higher MOI iron clubhead will have an actual impact on my scoring over time.

Test Bag

Mizuno ST190 9.5* - Diamana "Flowerband" Whiteboard 73 S @ 44.5"

Mizuno ST190 14.5 - Aldila RIP Phenom 80 S @ 43"

Epic Flash Heavenwood 19* - Aldila RIP Phenom 80 S @ 42"

Mizuno JPX EZ (grey) 4-pw - Matrix Program F15 S SSx1

Mizuno MP-T5 52, 56 & 60 - TT Wedge

Grips - Master Grip Master Perforated Midsize

BT

[bellairemi]

Any sense of less twisting when you missed center?  

[RI_Redneck]

I only had one that was a bit heel-ward and it felt pretty much like they always do. Hard to grade the results though cause it took off left but got deflected to the front center of the green by a limb. Everything else was pretty much center and the feel is different than I'm used to. Playing again this coming Sunday.

BT

[Wedgie]

I game the Cleveland Launchers which is a whole different level of forgiveness and one of the first things I noticed when playing these was that they really never twist.  Squaring them up is the hardest part. 

[RI_Redneck]

Second round with the SGIs.

5/17/20 Triggs Memorial GC - Providence

Played 18 with my youngest son who is getting into the game after a young career in hockey.

Course has been closed since early Feb (IIRC) due to COVID-19 and was reopened last week. Firm conditions and recently aerated greens (also firm). We've had a very wet spring and I'm looking for courses that drain well to keep from needing waders to play, LOL. Also, no courses have the ranges open, so I have to start off cold each time.

I've gotten more accustomed to aiming the offset faces and most shots were either on target or slight push (common with everything I play). I am still having issues with distance control as I had shots that ended up both short and long. I also played a few draws and cuts which worked out fine. I'm beginning to think I shouldn't have soft-stepped the shafts because they feel a little soft at times. Lastly, the turf interaction is different with these heads than what I'm used to. They tend to bounce more than my other clubs. Most of my shots with the JPXs were mid-irons (4, 5 & 6) with one 8i on a short par 3. I didn't have any off-center shots, so I can't comment on the help of the tech for this round. I finished at +11 again. Looking forward to the next one.

BT

Edited May 19, 2020 by RI_Redneck

[JohnSmalls]

Great to see a forum member test on this subject.  Thanks for starting this, will be keeping an eye on your results!

[heavygolffeels]

What source as you using for you MOI ratings? I've just done a similar experiment with Cobra S3s and Srixon 785s. I was using the Maltby Playability Factor in my analysis, and the MOI ratings listed on that page, which are more in the 10-14 range rather than the 2100-3400 numbers you are using. Must be some factor there. Would be curious how your source rates the S3s compared to the JPX EZ irons.

[RI_Redneck]

I used Maltby's MPF and converted it using this calculator (https://www.unitconverters.net/moment-of-inertia/ounce-square-inch-to-gram-square-centimeter.htm).

HOWEVER, I just saw this video uploaded yesterday by Mark Crossfield that may have me cutting my experiment short. Absolutely Mindboggeling!!

BT

 

[RI_Redneck]

Lake of Isles North Course - Foxwoods Casino, CT - Course in Great condition!

Played 18 alone behind groups. 78* wind 5-10 mph. Since play was slow, I got the chance to hit A LOT of practice shots with these irons. They also had their range open, so I got to warm up normally, which I had not been able to do previously. BTW, I don't think I mentioned it before, but I am playing the Vice Pro ball for all of this testing. It is the ball I have been playing the last 3 yrs and I know how it typically performs for me.

During the course of play, I hit MANY approach shots with all irons from various distances (repaired ALL pitchmarks!!). I am still having distance control issues with all irons except 9i & PW. They seem to be consistent and slightly shorter than my MP5s by about 5 yds. I have also noticed spin issues with all clubs. The greens today were semi-firm (pitchmarks 1/2" deep) and I was seeing repeated 10'-15' rollout with the PW & 9i, and increasing on up. Not a problem on back pins, but front pins were a lost cause. I had one par 3 (50" drop to green), 179 to a front pin. I hit a hard 7i that hit just past the front edge and rolled (uphill) to within 5' of the back edge! I could only hold greens that had considerable back to front slope and was always left with a downhill put no matter what I tried. NOTHING pulled back with the JPX EZs. Not even the PW, four of which I hit into the same green (moderate back to front slope) from pristine fwy lies.

Another issue is, I have yet to get 200+ with the 4i (22*) no matter what I do, although I HAVE hit the 5i over 200 a couple of times without even trying! So, don't know what's going on with that. In all, the irons were okay today. I had a few off-center shots and did notice them ending up short by 10 yds at least. I am still seeing nothing groundbreaking as far as accuracy over my other sets. I ended up 12 over and would have been FAR worse had my greenside wedge game not been really good.

BT

Edited May 22, 2020 by RI_Redneck

[heavygolffeels]

Well keep with your experiment to see if the results are replicated.

For me, I was incredibly worried that switching to the Srixon Z785 from the Cobra S3 irons that I was going to be losing loads of forgiveness. On Maltbys chart the S3s have one of the higher MOI rating and ranks as SGI with an MPF of 713. The MPF for the Z785 is 402. But what sold me on the Z785 was hitting them on a launch monitor, nearly decent shot had the same carry and spin numbers over and over again. Just seemed really consistent. Was planning to go Z585 irons, but that experience sold me on Z785 for the short irons. On the course, I am routinely surprised how well mishits end up. These arent blades, but definitely have narrower soles and a much thinner topline than my previous sets. Was really expecting that I was going to have some growing pains and be forced to work on my ball striking. But I'm finding that besides a little more feedback, my accuracy is better than ever. Mishits are barely penalized. And flushed shots are right at the target. With the S3s, when you really got one you knew it and it would fly 10 yards over. I remember telling myself, oh well, that was still a hell of a shot. With the z785, I dont have those nuked shots anymore. Definitely see what Crossfield is seeing, and that landing window is highly condensed. Again, not blades but definitely a players irons vs a SGI. 

[RI_Redneck]

I'll apologize beforehand, this post is not ALL about the JPX EZs

6/5/20 Range Session -

The range near my house has finally opened, so I thought I would get in some much needed practice with the JPX EZ set. I have been thinking that these clubheads seem to be designed for players with a more shallow sweeping swing, so I thought I would give that a try and see how things went. After warming up, I grabbed the PW and hit about 15 balls focusing on the proper ball placement to give me a more neutral AoA. Contact felt a lot better and the shots were flying pretty much right at the target. Only issue was they were REALLY high and coming up short of my typical PW landing area by about 10 yds. I then moved to the 7i and agin, contact and shot direction were better than what i had been getting from these irons. Oddly, the 7i shots were landing about 5 yds FURTHER than my typical 7i landing area. Very perplexing!?!? I then move to the 4i and that's when the wheels flew off. I could not hit the ball clean to save my life. I thought maybe I had gotten a bit to far forward with my ball placement, but nothing would work. I hit about 20 balls and decided to put it away and hit a few with the MP-18 Fli-Hi driving iron I have to see if perhaps I had just lost my mind. Nope, The driving iron was crisp and clean with good trajectory and distance. I tried a couple more with the JPX 4i and the same lousy results came right back. I retired it and finished the bucket with my 7w and 3w.

The only thing I can think of is the offset on the long irons is really getting into my head. It's like I can't see how to hit the ball with that club. 5i is not bad, but he 4i is horrible. Funny thing is, these types of iron heads are supposed to be EASIER to hit! Very perplexing.

 

6/9/20 - Cypress Lakes Golf Club - Houston

Had a trip down South this week with a corporate scramble scheduled for 6/11. I decided to bring my MP5s instead and give the JPXs a break. I finished up my meetings by Noon on Tuesday and dropped by CLGC to get a quick round in. I got about 30 mins on the range before playing and MAN, is it good to be hitting my regular clubs. Crisp contact and solid shots through the bag. 4i was a joy to hit after the Friday session. I got paired up with a college kid playing Miura blades and ST190 woods. He worked part time at a local golf store, so we got to talk shop a lot through the round. The wind was pretty stiff with the passing of the tropical storm earlier this week and clubbing was a bit of a challenge. I ended up 5 over on the front due to a bit of over-draw with my driver putting me in some difficult situations. The back 9 was frustrating as always (don't know why it doesn't agree with me) due to my wedge play failing me for some reason. Ended up with an 83 and was really tempted to toss my wedges in the lake by the 18 green, but talked myself out of it because I would be setting a terrible example for the young man playing along with me.

 

6/11/20 - Jennings G&CC

The day of the scramble, I got to the course early, dropped off my door prizes and went directly to the range. Full shots were feeling really good, so I went over to the pitching /chipping green to work on those stinking wedges. I discovered what I was doing and got them to acting much better. Finished with a bit of putting and grabbed a bite of lunch before teeing off. Sure, today's round is a scramble, but I typically get paired up with pretty high handicappers in these things, so I get a pretty good idea of how I would have played individually. Sure enough, I had two 30 caps and an 18. Driver was on today and I only had a few that didn't find the fairway. All drives were mine except two, where we had one in the short grass that left a longer shot, but with a much better angle for the other players. Had 12 GIRs and we came in 9 under. Ball-striking was quite good. IIRC, I had one slightly fat shot 7i and one thin wedge. I will get back to the JPX clubs next week and see if I can fair any better with them.

BT

[RI_Redneck]

I got in three more range sessions and have everything but the 4i working now. I have adjusted my ball placement so that I don't get the jarring from impact with firm turf or mats and can hit the ball cleanly on 90% of my shots. They are pretty straight as long as I aim them straight. They also hook and slice if I put that swing on them. The one thing I CAN'T do is flight shots down with any of the clubs. They are all high, high shots. I can literally hit a lower shot with my SW than I can with the 7i! I suspect this is exacerbated by the necessary ball placement and sweeping the ball instead of pinching it as I do now. The inability to control the height of my shots is going to affect me negatively on some days and in some trouble situations. I am also still having distance control issues with these irons. I don't know if it is the spring face or what, but the inconsistency is in no way making my game better. With all of the play I have done so far, I see no added benefit to playing these irons. I have not had lower scoring and have actually had far fewer birdie chances than is typical. I am seriously thinking about ending the test now and cutting my losses for the year.

One of the things I find the most frustrating is that I have had to modify my swing more with these "game improvement" clubs that are "so much easier to hit" than I have EVER had to do with any of my other 9 SETS OF BLADES OR PLAYER CAVITIES!! If the tech is such a benefit, why does one have to work so hard to make them work?

Your thoughts.

BT

[RI_Redneck]

The test is officially over. I played one more round over the weekend and I'm done with these irons. The dry weather lately has many of our RI courses playing quite firm and the JPX EZs beat the crap out of my wrist. Even with the graphite shafts, I had annoying wrist pain Sunday morning. Results are no better and was still having trouble holding greens. I have removed the grips and installed them on my reshafted (Fuji Pro 115 S) black chrome MP14s. I will be removing the Matrix Program F15 S shafts soon and will put the stock TT XP 95 S shafts back in. If my son doesn't want them. they will be going on the BST. Sorry I had to cut things short, but it was getting kind of obvious that the clubs were not for me.

BTW, after pain meds on Sunday, I went out yesterday with a customer in CT to a tight little course near Orange. Driver was a little sketchy since they didn't have a range to warm up on. Cost me two lost balls and two punch outs in the thick growth lining the course. But I hit 12 of 18 greens with my MP5s and ended up with a 78. It was nice to see that I hadn't suffered from the swing work with the other clubs.

BT

[aerospace_ray]

3 hours ago, RI_Redneck said:

The test is officially over. I played one more round over the weekend and I'm done with these irons. The dry weather lately has many of our RI courses playing quite firm and the JPX EZs beat the crap out of my wrist. Even with the graphite shafts, I had annoying wrist pain Sunday morning. Results are no better and was still having trouble holding greens. I have removed the grips and installed them on my reshafted (Fuji Pro 115 S) black chrome MP14s. I will be removing the Matrix Program F15 S shafts soon and will put the stock TT XP 95 S shafts back in. If my son doesn't want them. they will be going on the BST. Sorry I had to cut things short, but it was getting kind of obvious that the clubs were not for me.

BTW, after pain meds on Sunday, I went out yesterday with a customer in CT to a tight little course near Orange. Driver was a little sketchy since they didn't have a range to warm up on. Cost me two lost balls and two punch outs in the thick growth lining the course. But I hit 12 of 18 greens with my MP5s and ended up with a 78. It was nice to see that I hadn't suffered from the swing work with the other clubs.

BT

Enjoyed reading your test/reviews. Wish I could go out and not warm and shoot 78......... Ok I would take 78 right now with a warm up on a range . 12-18 greens, awesome.

[NRJyzr]

I admit I'm not too surprised at this.  It's not unlike my own experiences with the various clubs I've used.

I've enjoyed following along.  

Edited June 24, 2020 by NRJyzr