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NPG Episode 37: Popular Golf Balls NOT Round?!


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I havent listened to the podcast yet but it sounds like MGS gave me yet another reason to not play a Callaway ball.  Although, I probably should be just as concern how out of round the Vice and Maxfli balls that Ive been playing are as well.  I need to catch up on podcasts when I get back to work and my 2 hour a day commute tomorrow.

Edited by Pingistheanser

"I suppose its better to be a master of 7 than to be vaguely familiar with 14." - Chick Evans

Whats in my Sun Mountain 2.5+ stand bag?

Woods: Tommy Armour Atomic 10.5* 

Hybrid: Mizuno MP Fli-Hi 3H

Irons: Mizuno T-Zoid True 5, 7 and 9-irons

Wedge: Mizuno S18 54* and Top Flite chipper

Putter: Mizuno Bettinardi A-02

Ball: Maxfli Tour X

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I am also not a big fan of pod casts, though I get the medium; sometimes I just want to be about to skim the material to get to the parts I want know about, other times it is a great way to occupy the other part of my brain while I am "working" on something else; the problem there is that I occasionally find myself having to go back and rewind several times to catch what I missed while focused on that other thing. 

I am really interested in seeing the results here.  Especially how companies like Vice and Snell come out in comparison with Titleist and Bridgestone.  As a Quality Manager I could go into Six Sigma and all the variation numbers etc. but the bottom line is that there is really only a set allowable variation from "conformance" for a product to be considered "quality."  Some of that acceptable variation his based on cost of conformance and cost of inspection, but in reality, there is a lot to be said for reliving a consistent product to your customer; this report could really have an impact on the industry, or at least the consumer base.  It is interesting that the Pro's balls were consistently 5 compression points higher than the over the counter copies.  

Shifting topics a bit to the return to play discussion; I am going to leave the comments on "safety alone out of respect to the forum standards that I was told to read when I signed up.  I will chime in on the restaurant topic though.  Here in WA fast food drive throughs have been open for weeks, and restaurants have been open for take out as well; so we are all perplexed as to why we cannot get a take-out burger in the middle or at the end of a round; I'll leave the details of those discussions out of this post, but leave you with this, the standards are just not standard even when it applies to apples to apples industries.  So, the restaurant in our downtown area is operating, and the restaurant at one of our public, non-minu's has been operating as well (of course they stayed open for golf for "members" through the State mandated shutdown - Cheers to them, I almost bit the bullet and went in on an annual membership), However the restaurants at our city run muni and one of the casino owned courses have not yet opened even for take out.  But honestly, with all of the rules imposed on course management I applaud them for just getting open for play at this point.

Anyway, thanks for the pod cast and I am really looking forward to seeing the results as they come out.  Might even have to go hit one of those PXG drivers when the fitter opens up across the water.  Cheers folks. 

  • Driver - Ping G400 9°, Project-X Evenflow Black 6.0S 65 gr. 
  • FW - TM M3 3-wood 15°, Project-X HZRDUS Red 6.0 75 gr. mid-spin
  • Hybrid - TM M4 19°, Project-X Evenflow Black 6.0S 85 gr. HY 
  • Irons - TM P790, 3-PW, Oban CT-115
  • Wedges - Cleveland RTX-3 raw, 50/10 & 56/8*
  • Putter - Callaway Bobby Jones BJ-1
  • Getting a grip - oversize Winn DryTacs and Bionic gloves
  • Ball - Snell MTB Black
  • *Going to try some new wedges this year - Mizuno T20 Ion blue 52/9 & 56/14, N.S. Pro Modus3 S-flex, jumbo Golf Pride Tour Velvet
  • Bag(s)/cart - Sun Mountain Synch/TM Flextech Lite, Sun Mountain Micro
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... Subdiver I am gonna make a guess as to why golf course restaurants remain closed. Alcohol. In Illinois you can't bring your own on the course and with pretty strict rules in place like tee times 2 comes only and 15 minutes apart, no carts unless handicapped and the clubhouse closed so all payments are online before arriving. I could see "some" throwing a fit if alcohol was not served and of course I could see social distancing and other rules going out the window if alcohol was served. Obviously it would be the few ruining it for the many but alcohol is sometimes a problem before Covid rules and could certainly be a problem after since the work force is skeleton at best. Because I can't see any other reason take out only, thru the outside window would be anymore of a problem than all the restaurants that are doing the same thing. 

 

Driver:     :taylormade-small: SIM2 Max 10.5* ... AD-IZ 6SR
Fairway:  :taylormade-small: SIM2 Max 15/18* ... Tensei Raw Blue 65R
Hybrids:    :taylormade-small: RBZ Tour Hybrid 21.5* ... Diamana Ltd 65R
Utility:      :taylormade-small: UDi 18* ... Even Flow Black 85R hy
Irons:        :cobra-small: 4-9 MIM Tour ... Steelfiber i95R
Wedges:   :taylormade-small: MG3 46*/50*/58* LB ... Steelfiber i95R
Putter:      :bobby-grace-1: 6330 LTD Edition ...  33.5"
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour '23

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I was hoping to hear which well-known/highly-played brand it was going to be. I just don't understand how there can be acceptable tolerances in making a ball, but one of them isn't that they have to be ROUND.

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Driver: :callaway-small: Rogue ST Max LS Tensei AV Blue S

3w/5w: :titelist-small: TSi2 Tensei AV Raw Blue S

4h: :mizuno-small: CLK 22* Hybrid Tensei CK Pro Blue 80HY S

Irons 5-PW: :mizuno-small: 223 Steelfiber PR 95 S

Wedges: :cleveland-small: RTX Zipcore Tour Rack 50, 54, 58 Steelfiber PR 105

Putter: L.A.B. DF 2.1 w/ BGT Stability Tour

Ball: :srixon-small: Z-Star Diamond

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First off, I was very happy to have an episode of Not putts to listen to again. 

As far as the ball test goes. I am expecting similar results to last year. Titleist, Bstone, and Srixon being 1,2,3. Maybe not in that order though. 

Driver: SIM 9 Motore X F1 7X tipped 1 inch

Utility Iron: Cobra King Utility irons 18 degree Aldila rogue 90 X

Irons: Cobra King forged CB 4-PW KBS $ Taper 130 X

Wedges: Cleveland 49,52.58.64

Putter: Kronos Release.

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11 hours ago, yungkory said:

I was hoping to hear which well-known/highly-played brand it was going to be. I just don't understand how there can be acceptable tolerances in making a ball, but one of them isn't that they have to be ROUND.

Brace yourself because no product is perfect, all products have measurable tolerances - that’s what quality control is for. This isn’t unique to golf balls, even the best will have variation. It sounds like there are no industry standards for “round,” so each company is free to set their own limits. You’re going to have to decide for yourself what’s acceptable, which companies variation is acceptable - and what you’re willing to pay for acceptable variation. “Round” is but one unregulated variable. Is the core centered? How much does compression vary? Core, mantle and cover thickness variation? None appear to be regulated at all. That’s why this MGS study could be groundbreaking - and I’m sure they’re being very careful to be fair to manufacturers, as they should.
 

Many/some readers are going to have their bubbles burst regarding variation. Many/some are going to find out exactly why a $20 ball isn’t the same as a $45+ ball...and decide what more consistent is worth to them.

Quote

Golf Ball Size

Officially, a ball must weigh no more than 1.620 oz. and have a diameter no less than 1.680 inches. Furthermore, it must be spherically symmetrical and cannot exceed the USGA's sanctioned Initial Velocity limit.

USGA Approved Materials

A competition golf ball cannot be constructed using outside materials that could increase a golfer's performance; nor can it possess any cuts, cracks, dents or deformities that may potentially affect the ball's aerodynamics. Similarly, the balls are tested for modified elements that could induce greater compression and spin rates.

Golf Ball Colors

Even though a majority of golf balls permitted by the USGA have a cover color of white, the committee has allowed the usage of other bright colored golf balls during official competition.

Legal USGA Distance

To keep the game fair, the USGA restricts flight and subsequent ground-roll distance. This is often tested alongside new developments golf technologies.

 

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1 hour ago, Middler said:

Brace yourself because no product is perfect, all products have measurable tolerances - that’s what quality control is for. This isn’t unique to golf balls, even the best will have variation. It sounds like there are no industry standards for “round,” so each company is free to set their own limits. You’re going to have to decide for yourself what’s acceptable, which companies variation is acceptable - and what you’re willing to pay for acceptable variation. “Round” is but one unregulated variable. Is the core centered? How much does compression vary? Core, mantle and cover thickness variation? None appear to be regulated at all. That’s why this MGS study could be groundbreaking - and I’m sure they’re being very careful to be fair to manufacturers, as they should.
 

Many/some readers are going to have their bubbles burst regarding variation. Many/some are going to find out exactly why a $20 ball isn’t the same as a $45+ ball...and decide what more consistent is worth to them.

 

Yeah that's kind of the point I was trying to make. There are rules they have to follow, but one of them isn't that it has to be round. I feel like that should *probably* be step 1 in making a $4 golf ball, otherwise you're manufacturing eggs with dimples on them.

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Driver: :callaway-small: Rogue ST Max LS Tensei AV Blue S

3w/5w: :titelist-small: TSi2 Tensei AV Raw Blue S

4h: :mizuno-small: CLK 22* Hybrid Tensei CK Pro Blue 80HY S

Irons 5-PW: :mizuno-small: 223 Steelfiber PR 95 S

Wedges: :cleveland-small: RTX Zipcore Tour Rack 50, 54, 58 Steelfiber PR 105

Putter: L.A.B. DF 2.1 w/ BGT Stability Tour

Ball: :srixon-small: Z-Star Diamond

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21 minutes ago, yungkory said:

Yeah that's kind of the point I was trying to make. There are rules they have to follow, but one of them isn't that it has to be round. I feel like that should *probably* be step 1 in making a $4 golf ball, otherwise you're manufacturing eggs with dimples on them.

 

... It would be interesting to see how "out of round" any ball really is. A variance of .005? And then see how the worst out of round compares to the just barely out of round and if either is effected on putts or full shots. I have a feeling it is more technical variance than a performance variance, but that is just a guess and why we depend on in depth analysis from MGS. 

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Driver:     :taylormade-small: SIM2 Max 10.5* ... AD-IZ 6SR
Fairway:  :taylormade-small: SIM2 Max 15/18* ... Tensei Raw Blue 65R
Hybrids:    :taylormade-small: RBZ Tour Hybrid 21.5* ... Diamana Ltd 65R
Utility:      :taylormade-small: UDi 18* ... Even Flow Black 85R hy
Irons:        :cobra-small: 4-9 MIM Tour ... Steelfiber i95R
Wedges:   :taylormade-small: MG3 46*/50*/58* LB ... Steelfiber i95R
Putter:      :bobby-grace-1: 6330 LTD Edition ...  33.5"
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour '23

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36 minutes ago, yungkory said:

Yeah that's kind of the point I was trying to make. There are rules they have to follow, but one of them isn't that it has to be round. I feel like that should *probably* be step 1 in making a $4 golf ball, otherwise you're manufacturing eggs with dimples on them.

I gather from the NPG episode we're going to be surprised by the variation in compression too. IIRC he didn't name them yet but Tony mentioned one brand/ball that had 5 of 12 balls significantly different, that's a lot in one box. I wonder if they'll give us an estimate of how distance varies with compression, a couple yards or more?

I would also be put off by significantly off center cores, as they found last year - I don't think they've gotten to cutting into the balls yet.

And I guess they found balls advertised as "soft" averaging from 85 to 35 - that's nuts. Not talking variation here, just what compression some manufacturers are calling soft.

Again, it's going to be interesting, and maybe groundbreaking (if they dare)...

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  • Titleist TSR2 11° HZRDUS Red CB 50 6.0 TSR w Lamkin UTx Midsize
  • Titleist TSR2 16.5º HZRDUS Red 60 6.0 & TSR2 21º HZRDUS Black 4G 70 6.0 w Lamkin UTx Midsize
  • Mizuno JPX900 Forged 4-GW, S18 56.10, S18 60.06 w MCC+4 Midsize
  • Evnroll ER5B Fit@TrueSpec w P2 Touch Tour
  • Maxfli Tour & ProV1
  • Ping Pioneer - MGI Zip Navigator AT
  • Payntr X 002 LE, Ecco Biom C4, FJ DryJoys
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On 5/11/2020 at 4:43 PM, chisag said:

 

... Could not agree more with you and others. I have zero interest in a podcast and would LOVE to see a transcript as some of the content would be very interesting. 

Yep, I think I read faster than I listen.

TaylorMade Stealth 9* Ventus Blue 60 R

TaylorMade Stealth 15* 3W R

Mizuno CLK 19*

Mizuno CLK 22* > 24* 

Srixon X5 5-PW Aerotech Gener8 R +1/2"

Vokey SM8 48* 10* bounce

Vokey SM9 54*  10* bounce

Vokey SM9 58*   8* bounce

Edel putter 34.75"

Shot my age for the 1st time on 7/9/2022 with a 69

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The ball testing is going to be epic. I am really intrigued by the examination of balls from tour players. I think we have been led to believe that there is a difference between tour balls and consumer balls.

I don't think I have ever blamed a ball for a poor shot. Now we have access to a new excuse! Thanks MGS! 

Ping CB-P226 Hoofer Cart Bag

Ping G400 Max 10.5° w/Ping Alta CB

PXG 0341 3 wood 15° w/Project X Even Flow Blue

PXG 0211 19° Hybrid w/Project X Even Flow Riptide 

Ping G410 Crossover 23° w/Mitsubishi Tensei Blue

PXG 0211 5 - GW w/True Temper Elevate 95

Callaway MD3 54°/12° S Grind w/True Temper Dynamic Gold

Callaway MD3 58°/09° W Grind w/True Temper Dynamic Gold

Evnroll ER11v 34”  Evnroll ER11v Official Review

Shot Scope Pro LX+ Pro LX+ Official Review

Kirkland Signature v2.0

Clicgear 3.5+

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... Fwiw, this is from MG golf and it is the description of the bulk Chrome Soft balls they sell:


These brand new balls (NOT logo overruns or X-outs) include Callaway's "Tour Select" versions—very special balls provided only to Callway's PGA Tour pros (including the elite pros whose names you would immediately recognize) and receive a VIP level of QC. Being tweaked for pro players (and not intended for public sale), they have slight variations to the standard Chrome Soft sidestamp (like a "+" or "★" appended). They are of course USGA conforming.

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Driver:     :taylormade-small: SIM2 Max 10.5* ... AD-IZ 6SR
Fairway:  :taylormade-small: SIM2 Max 15/18* ... Tensei Raw Blue 65R
Hybrids:    :taylormade-small: RBZ Tour Hybrid 21.5* ... Diamana Ltd 65R
Utility:      :taylormade-small: UDi 18* ... Even Flow Black 85R hy
Irons:        :cobra-small: 4-9 MIM Tour ... Steelfiber i95R
Wedges:   :taylormade-small: MG3 46*/50*/58* LB ... Steelfiber i95R
Putter:      :bobby-grace-1: 6330 LTD Edition ...  33.5"
Ball:           Maxfli     Maxfli Tour '23

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I am wondering if there is a single piece of golf equipment that is as divisive as the ball..Lots of emotion around it. 

Driver: SIM 9 Motore X F1 7X tipped 1 inch

Utility Iron: Cobra King Utility irons 18 degree Aldila rogue 90 X

Irons: Cobra King forged CB 4-PW KBS $ Taper 130 X

Wedges: Cleveland 49,52.58.64

Putter: Kronos Release.

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I am wondering if there is a single piece of golf equipment that is as divisive as the ball..Lots of emotion around it. 

In my mind putters are probably more divisive than balls.

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :seemore-small: mFGP2

Backups:  :taylormade-small:TM-180, :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, Bellum Winmore 787, logo-horizontal-black.svg Directed Force 2.1 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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4 minutes ago, cnosil said:


In my mind putters are probably more divisive than balls.

Maybe, I guess where there are lots of options. Like putters and balls you get lots of opinions. 

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Driver: SIM 9 Motore X F1 7X tipped 1 inch

Utility Iron: Cobra King Utility irons 18 degree Aldila rogue 90 X

Irons: Cobra King forged CB 4-PW KBS $ Taper 130 X

Wedges: Cleveland 49,52.58.64

Putter: Kronos Release.

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On 5/11/2020 at 6:05 PM, Middler said:

Enjoyed today’s YT episode as always. 
 

I’m anxious to see the ball test. Fingers crossed my favorite brand fares OK...

And I’ve been playing golf to support my regular public course. I wasn’t sure if carts were revenue neutral or not, still don’t know. I hadn’t thought about the revenue lost from the pro shop, grill and beverages. Our twice a week league is suspended but I’ve emailed the leader to see if we can’t restart even if it’s just golf without the standard scoring and closest to the pin payoffs and some other amenities. Many league guys are playing anyway, no reason I can think of we can’t play together with standard course distancing and other measures they’ve put in place. The extremely vulnerable need to stay at home, but that’s an individual call.

As for the leagues, I'll get to that in just a minute below

 We just opened last week and we did it in quick stages.  Walking only no F&B all tee times paid online or over the phone in advance, pro shop, putting green and range all closed. 

The next day, we let carts out as single riders with still everything else closed.

The third day, we added take out pre ordered (over the phone or through our app) F&B including beer. 

We plan to open the range and putting green next week, if we can be sure of creating a plan to keep large groups gathering close by. 

We have had full tee sheets every day.   At this time we are offering walking rates and riding rates, in the past there was no discount for walking as 98% of our play took carts. We may evaluate this once we go back to normal, there's been a larger than expected demand for walking only.  We have a very spread out long course, so it's a bit of a surprise.

OK Leagues.

We have a leagues four days  a week, and two of them on Thursday.  The big issue is the 50 to 80 person shotgun starts, with everyone congregating around the staging area.  So leagues here will probably be at least a few weeks away, and even then we're talking about doing it in tee times from say 4:00 to 5:30 and once they are gone the league is filled up that week. 

I'm sure there will be some complaints, but I think every course has to error on the side of caution in these early days.  No course wants to end up as the lead story on the 6:00 news for being unsafe. 

On 5/11/2020 at 8:25 PM, Subdiver1 said:

I am also not a big fan of pod casts, though I get the medium; sometimes I just want to be about to skim the material to get to the parts I want know about, other times it is a great way to occupy the other part of my brain while I am "working" on something else; the problem there is that I occasionally find myself having to go back and rewind several times to catch what I missed while focused on that other thing. 

I am really interested in seeing the results here.  Especially how companies like Vice and Snell come out in comparison with Titleist and Bridgestone.  As a Quality Manager I could go into Six Sigma and all the variation numbers etc. but the bottom line is that there is really only a set allowable variation from "conformance" for a product to be considered "quality."  Some of that acceptable variation his based on cost of conformance and cost of inspection, but in reality, there is a lot to be said for reliving a consistent product to your customer; this report could really have an impact on the industry, or at least the consumer base.  It is interesting that the Pro's balls were consistently 5 compression points higher than the over the counter copies.  

Shifting topics a bit to the return to play discussion; I am going to leave the comments on "safety alone out of respect to the forum standards that I was told to read when I signed up.  I will chime in on the restaurant topic though.  Here in WA fast food drive throughs have been open for weeks, and restaurants have been open for take out as well; so we are all perplexed as to why we cannot get a take-out burger in the middle or at the end of a round; I'll leave the details of those discussions out of this post, but leave you with this, the standards are just not standard even when it applies to apples to apples industries.  So, the restaurant in our downtown area is operating, and the restaurant at one of our public, non-minu's has been operating as well (of course they stayed open for golf for "members" through the State mandated shutdown - Cheers to them, I almost bit the bullet and went in on an annual membership), However the restaurants at our city run muni and one of the casino owned courses have not yet opened even for take out.  But honestly, with all of the rules imposed on course management I applaud them for just getting open for play at this point.

Anyway, thanks for the pod cast and I am really looking forward to seeing the results as they come out.  Might even have to go hit one of those PXG drivers when the fitter opens up across the water.  Cheers folks. 

See above on our F&B.  We have one of the most cautious GM's around...but we have come up with an effective way to serve most everything from our grill on a pre order take out basis and all the golfers have been very accommodating.  We aren't making nearly as much as we would if we were allowed to have the bar open where players could sit, eat and drink afterwards, but it's something. 

 

 

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:titelist-small: TSi1 20 and 23 degree hybrids Aldila Ascent Shafts R

:titelist-small: T200 5-GW SteelFiber I80 

:titelist-small: SM8 48F/54/58 D Grinds 

:scotty-cameron-1: Select 5.5 Flowback 35" 

:titelist-small: ProV1X Play number 12

 

 

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On 5/11/2020 at 6:21 PM, chisag said:

... Subdiver I am gonna make a guess as to why golf course restaurants remain closed. Alcohol. In Illinois you can't bring your own on the course and with pretty strict rules in place like tee times 2 comes only and 15 minutes apart, no carts unless handicapped and the clubhouse closed so all payments are online before arriving. I could see "some" throwing a fit if alcohol was not served and of course I could see social distancing and other rules going out the window if alcohol was served. Obviously it would be the few ruining it for the many but alcohol is sometimes a problem before Covid rules and could certainly be a problem after since the work force is skeleton at best. Because I can't see any other reason take out only, thru the outside window would be anymore of a problem than all the restaurants that are doing the same thing.

 

@chisag, Yeah, I wondered and talked to several folks about it.  The most frequent response was that they (management) was focused on figuring out how to work within the boundaries of the new rules and make things work on the course, like 2-somes only and individual carts etc.   One of the big issues was having enough carts and also trying to "police" everyone to keep from having and issue with local...umm..."authorities"(?).  A couple of the courses just don't have enough of an off course draw to make the restaurants a priority, but knowing the income margin for food and beverage over golf itself, it seems like it would make sense to try and get those moving.  We actually had the beverage carts out and circulating pretty quick, so there does not seem to be a concern about alcohol, here anyway; and plenty of folks here bring their own coolers.  I do hear what you are saying and all of your points make a certain amount of sense.  The roll out plan reported by Golfspy_CG2 above sounds like a well phased plan.  

We actually got the report this morning that courses are going to foursomes; my big question on that will revolve around having enough carts to do individual carts.  One of the courses up here has the golf boards, which seem like they would be a great alternative especially right now, to having four full size carts running around every fairway.      

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  • Driver - Ping G400 9°, Project-X Evenflow Black 6.0S 65 gr. 
  • FW - TM M3 3-wood 15°, Project-X HZRDUS Red 6.0 75 gr. mid-spin
  • Hybrid - TM M4 19°, Project-X Evenflow Black 6.0S 85 gr. HY 
  • Irons - TM P790, 3-PW, Oban CT-115
  • Wedges - Cleveland RTX-3 raw, 50/10 & 56/8*
  • Putter - Callaway Bobby Jones BJ-1
  • Getting a grip - oversize Winn DryTacs and Bionic gloves
  • Ball - Snell MTB Black
  • *Going to try some new wedges this year - Mizuno T20 Ion blue 52/9 & 56/14, N.S. Pro Modus3 S-flex, jumbo Golf Pride Tour Velvet
  • Bag(s)/cart - Sun Mountain Synch/TM Flextech Lite, Sun Mountain Micro
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On 5/15/2020 at 11:04 AM, Golfspy_CG2 said:

As for the leagues, I'll get to that in just a minute below

 We just opened last week and we did it in quick stages.  Walking only no F&B all tee times paid online or over the phone in advance, pro shop, putting green and range all closed. 

The next day, we let carts out as single riders with still everything else closed.

The third day, we added take out pre ordered (over the phone or through our app) F&B including beer. 

We plan to open the range and putting green next week, if we can be sure of creating a plan to keep large groups gathering close by. 

We have had full tee sheets every day.   At this time we are offering walking rates and riding rates, in the past there was no discount for walking as 98% of our play took carts. We may evaluate this once we go back to normal, there's been a larger than expected demand for walking only.  We have a very spread out long course, so it's a bit of a surprise.

OK Leagues.

We have a leagues four days  a week, and two of them on Thursday.  The big issue is the 50 to 80 person shotgun starts, with everyone congregating around the staging area.  So leagues here will probably be at least a few weeks away, and even then we're talking about doing it in tee times from say 4:00 to 5:30 and once they are gone the league is filled up that week. 

I'm sure there will be some complaints, but I think every course has to error on the side of caution in these early days.  No course wants to end up as the lead story on the 6:00 news for being unsafe. 

See above on our F&B.  We have one of the most cautious GM's around...but we have come up with an effective way to serve most everything from our grill on a pre order take out basis and all the golfers have been very accommodating.  We aren't making nearly as much as we would if we were allowed to have the bar open where players could sit, eat and drink afterwards, but it's something. 

 

 

@Golfspy_CG2, Sounds like a sound plan.  We are doing leagues, but no shotgun start tournaments for the same reasons you list.  That makes sense.  The struggle we faced with league play was trying to get 48 or more players off as two-somes; when you go from 12 tee times to 24 tee times if really stresses the window and it isn't like we can start early on a weekday as most of the players are still working regular days.  The one item that really has me perplexed is not having holes on the putting greens; why not have holes, but not the flags/sticks?  I get the whole keep multiple people from touching the same surfaces, but I don't really understand not having a hole (Fortunately, for me, I have one of those Odyssey putting targets I can toss out to putt at).  I think your GM sounds like a pretty practical guy and like you said, you may not be making a mint with crowded restaurant/bar, but al least everyone is able to get something.  I had a Commanding Officer impart a good bit of wisdom on us many years ago, he said, "You can please some of the people some of the time, but you can never please all of the people, all of the time; so don't get too worried about the few who will always be happy, no matter what you do."

Honestly, if my round today was any indication of how my game is developing, I might need them to open the bar so I can stay in there and save the real golfers from being embarrassed by my presence.

Thanks for the read.

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28 minutes ago, Subdiver1 said:

@Golfspy_CG2, Sounds like a sound plan.  We are doing leagues, but no shotgun start tournaments for the same reasons you list.  That makes sense.  The struggle we faced with league play was trying to get 48 or more players off as two-somes; when you go from 12 tee times to 24 tee times if really stresses the window and it isn't like we can start early on a weekday as most of the players are still working regular days.  The one item that really has me perplexed is not having holes on the putting greens; why not have holes, but not the flags/sticks?  I get the whole keep multiple people from touching the same surfaces, but I don't really understand not having a hole (Fortunately, for me, I have one of those Odyssey putting targets I can toss out to putt at).  I think your GM sounds like a pretty practical guy and like you said, you may not be making a mint with crowded restaurant/bar, but al least everyone is able to get something.  I had a Commanding Officer impart a good bit of wisdom on us many years ago, he said, "You can please some of the people some of the time, but you can never please all of the people, all of the time; so don't get too worried about the few who will always be happy, no matter what you do."

Honestly, if my round today was any indication of how my game is developing, I might need them to open the bar so I can stay in there and save the real golfers from being embarrassed by my presence.

Thanks for the read.

Yeah I understand what you are saying about the start time of the leagues. It definitely cuts down on the number of players.  With the 4 groups per hour.  We'd only end up with 24 players each week.  I guess we could go off each 9 and end up with 48.  We ended up doing that thing past couple years when our turnout was becoming 60 to 70 a week. 

But you are so correct. No matter what we do, there will be some complaints.  So you have to just stick with what you think fits the majority of people and that makes the course management feel confident they are providing a safe environment without going too far. 

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12 minutes ago, Golfspy_CG2 said:

Yeah I understand what you are saying about the start time of the leagues. It definitely cuts down on the number of players.  With the 4 groups per hour.  We'd only end up with 24 players each week.  I guess we could go off each 9 and end up with 48.  We ended up doing that thing past couple years when our turnout was becoming 60 to 70 a week. 

But you are so correct. No matter what we do, there will be some complaints.  So you have to just stick with what you think fits the majority of people and that makes the course management feel confident they are providing a safe environment without going too far. 

We are fortunate to have a home course with 36 holes so we have been splitting the league up for several years; each team starts on one course one week and the other the following week and our AMAZING league managers (and the course folks) have done a very good job at rotating everyone and the opponents so the play is balanced between courses throughout the season.  We played twosomes the first two weeks after opening this year for handicap establishment and it was shaping up to be interesting having to play that way by either splitting up teams to play with your opponent or having to correlate cards between teams after the round for points.  I am sure the announcement that the course is going back to foursomes next week is a relief to our managers.  Like you say, there is a balance and you just have to hope that most people can agree on what that balance point is.

Cheers.  

  • Like 1
  • Driver - Ping G400 9°, Project-X Evenflow Black 6.0S 65 gr. 
  • FW - TM M3 3-wood 15°, Project-X HZRDUS Red 6.0 75 gr. mid-spin
  • Hybrid - TM M4 19°, Project-X Evenflow Black 6.0S 85 gr. HY 
  • Irons - TM P790, 3-PW, Oban CT-115
  • Wedges - Cleveland RTX-3 raw, 50/10 & 56/8*
  • Putter - Callaway Bobby Jones BJ-1
  • Getting a grip - oversize Winn DryTacs and Bionic gloves
  • Ball - Snell MTB Black
  • *Going to try some new wedges this year - Mizuno T20 Ion blue 52/9 & 56/14, N.S. Pro Modus3 S-flex, jumbo Golf Pride Tour Velvet
  • Bag(s)/cart - Sun Mountain Synch/TM Flextech Lite, Sun Mountain Micro
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