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Driver - ball position


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II just reviewed the TXG video on distance as it relates to how high the ball is teed up. The one topic I haven't seen covered is: ball position relative to the lead foot and its effect on the driver.

 

I would think that the further forward the ball is in relation to the big toe the further down the face of the driver the ball is hit. Conversely if the ball position is closer to the heel of the lead foot, the ball strike will be higher on the face of the driver.

 

Does that make sense?

 

 

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With the same swing, I'd be inclined to say yes. I'd also hypothesize that depending on the golfer's ability to control face angle, you'd see balls start moving left a bit the closer you get to the lead toe.

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you would think so,  but AoA plays a bigger factor.  I have a tendency to hit down and I can tell you that no matter what I do with ball position,  I am high on the face.   I think forward and back in the stance would have a bigger influence on path.  Farther back would lead to a more in to out swing.  

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
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With the same swing, I'd be inclined to say yes. I'd also hypothesize that depending on the golfer's ability to control face angle, you'd see balls start moving left a bit the closer you get to the lead toe.

That's interesting - I hadn't thought of that but it makes sense. Being a lefty, I tend to go a bit right drawing the ball.


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thanks - I should subscribe to their videos instead of just viewing them occasionally.



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Interesting video - of course Matt plays an entirely different game than I do. 

I'm going to experiment a bit with ball position on our practice holes. Tee height and ball position are 2 things that my instructors never spent time on. 

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Cobra  Radspeed 3W/RIptide Shaft
:ping-small:  410  Hybrids 22*, 26*

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:titelist-small: SM7 54* Wedge

:ping-small: Glide 3.0  60* Wedge

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:1590477705_SunMountain: And  BAG Boy

Golf Balls: Vice Pro Plus 

2020 Official Teste:SuperSpeed: Beginning Driver Speed  - 78

2019 Official Tester :ping-small:  410 Driver

2018 Official Tester :wilson-small: C300

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Ball position has to do with the low point of your swing.  From there you can build out the ball position for parts of your bag.  Feet are a horrible way to define ball position because as your stance width changes so does your low point.  If you don't believe me, put the center of your ankles 12" apart and place the ball on the left ankle.  Now, place your your ankles 36" apart, how are you going to get to that ball!!  I know the example is extreme but it shows that using your feet is a bad way to set ball position.   BTW - there is no set way that someone places a golf ball!  YOUTUBE is more dangerous than good.  The platform requires generalities that pertain to few people and encourages constant testing, trying, experimenting, etc. to get better at the game.  There is a better way!

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In theory, yes but Id also say theres a ton of variables that come into play.  How much sway or forward weight transfer do you have?  If you hang back or have a reverse pivot, it all kind of goes out the window.

I personally play the ball a bit more forward than normal (almost eve with my big toe) to prevent me from popping it up and to compensate for the fade/slice, I just aim down the left side of the hole and let the ball (hopefully) drift back to the middle of the fairway.

"I suppose its better to be a master of 7 than to be vaguely familiar with 14." - Chick Evans

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I would think that tee height would also come into play (with driver). If you move the ball closer to your lead foot, wouldn't increasing tee height become necessary in order to not hit the ball on the bottom of the club?

I'm certainly not an expert - but I would think that given reasonably consistently swings - the further forward, the more the ball strike moves down on the face of the club and vice versa. An additional point that I hadn't considered is [mention=72813]TR1PTIK[/mention] comment in an earlier post in this thread related to ball flight.

 I have a tendency to hit the ball in the vertical middle of the club face but more towards the bottom. What I found interesting in the TXG video was the yardage difference because of tee height and ball position. Again as a disclaimer, there is no way my game even comes close to Matt's, however, If I can pick up an additional 5-10 yds by experimenting with a combination of the two, it's worth it. 

With my irons/hybrids/woods, I'm already doing some of this - not off the tee of course. By taking practice swings, I can see the brushed grass/divots where the optimum ball position is.

All of you low handicappers know this or do it intuitively - but it was a revalation to me. 

 

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2020 Official Teste:SuperSpeed: Beginning Driver Speed  - 78

2019 Official Tester :ping-small:  410 Driver

2018 Official Tester :wilson-small: C300

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On 5/9/2020 at 8:39 PM, sirchunksalot said:

Here's the video. 

Thanks for posting this. I watched it yesterday and had yet another epiphany. I've been slicing the buggery out of my drives and realise that I've been moving the ball further up in my stance which enhances that problem because of side spin. I'm playing on Thursday and will experiment with moving the ball further back than I have it currently to see if I can get the issue under control.

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Fairway: :callaway-small: Apex UW 19° & 21° Project X HZRDUS Smoke RDX Black 5.5

Irons: :mizuno-small: JPX 923 HMP 5-PW UST Mamiya Recoil 95 F4
Wedges: :mizuno-small: T-22 Denim Copper 48°, 52° & 56° UST Mamiya Recoil 95 F4
Putter :Sub70: Sycamore 005 Wide Blade
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Cart: :CaddyTek: CaddyLite ONE Ver. 8


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12 minutes ago, MattF said:

Thanks for posting this. I watched it yesterday and had yet another epiphany. I've been slicing the buggery out of my drives and realise that I've been moving the ball further up in my stance which enhances that problem because of side spin. I'm playing on Thursday and will experiment with moving the ball further back than I have it currently to see if I can get the issue under control.

@MattF also check out TXG'sr previous video on tee height - they go hand in hand. 

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:taylormade-small:SIM 2 D Max with Fujikura Air Speeder Shaft 

Cobra  Radspeed 3W/RIptide Shaft
:ping-small:  410  Hybrids 22*, 26*

Cobra Speed Zone 6-GP/Recoil ESX 460 F3 Shafts 

:titelist-small: SM7 54* Wedge

:ping-small: Glide 3.0  60* Wedge

:odyssey-small: O Works putter

:ShotScope: V3
:918457628_PrecisionPro:NX9-HD

:CaddyTek: - 4 Wheel 

EZGO TXT 48v cart
:footjoy-small: - too many shoes to list and so many to buy

:1590477705_SunMountain: And  BAG Boy

Golf Balls: Vice Pro Plus 

2020 Official Teste:SuperSpeed: Beginning Driver Speed  - 78

2019 Official Tester :ping-small:  410 Driver

2018 Official Tester :wilson-small: C300

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I picked up a new driver last week and spent a bunch of time on SkyTrak dialing it in.  What worked for this driver is different than what works for my other driver.  With the new driver I have to tee it higher and move it more forward in my stance to get the best results.  If I set up like the old driver I was pushing everything and hitting really low on the face.  Taking this knowledge to the course yesterday it took me about 9 holes to adjust a little more before I was getting similar results to SkyTrak.   

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Sounds just like me. No matter how much I tilt away from the ball or move the ball forward, I always have a AOA.

you would think so,  but AoA plays a bigger factor.  I have a tendency to hit down and I can tell you that no matter what I do with ball position,  I am high on the face.   I think forward and back in the stance would have a bigger influence on path.  Farther back would lead to a more in to out swing.  


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1 hour ago, MattF said:

Thanks for posting this. I watched it yesterday and had yet another epiphany. I've been slicing the buggery out of my drives and realise that I've been moving the ball further up in my stance which enhances that problem because of side spin. I'm playing on Thursday and will experiment with moving the ball further back than I have it currently to see if I can get the issue under control.

You're welcome! I think it's something to definitely experiment with. My last round I noticed I was playing the ball way too far forward and it was leading to pulls. That and a slightly weaker grip helped me straighten it out. I've restarted SuperSpeed training and that always seems to give me a horrible case of the lefts. 

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14 minutes ago, sirchunksalot said:

You're welcome! I think it's something to definitely experiment with. My last round I noticed I was playing the ball way too far forward and it was leading to pulls. That and a slightly weaker grip helped me straighten it out. I've restarted SuperSpeed training and that always seems to give me a horrible case of the lefts. 

I understand the desire to solve all strike and control issues but, experimenting with ball position is not a desirable way to improve your golf game.  You have a ball position that functions best that works in tandem with a stance width that adjusts through the bag.  Identify this position and include it in your practice and playing routine.  You can measure the distance between your ankles for your driver, irons and wedges and then mark them along with your ball position on an alignment stick.  When ball striking doesn't go as planed you should not search and hope, you should put everything back where it belongs and search for a new fix. 

I have failed to understand or find the joy in the constant search to be better.  We know how the game is played, the variations in swing that can work and those that don't, yet golfers find some joy in trying to discover some magical way they will become better.  Could you imagine using this strategy with a major medical ailment? 

BTW - this isn't a post specific to you and I'm not criticizing you in any way.  Your statement reflects the voice of many who seem to constantly search for a cure to golf.  The great news is the cure has been found and that is the point of my comments.  

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You're welcome! I think it's something to definitely experiment with. My last round I noticed I was playing the ball way too far forward and it was leading to pulls. That and a slightly weaker grip helped me straighten it out. I've restarted SuperSpeed training and that always seems to give me a horrible case of the lefts. 

Played a quick 9 tonight. Moving it back definitely worked for both my fairway wood and hybrids. Straight and long. I moved the ball slightly back for my driver but couldn't tell if I got more distance. My drives are fairly straight to begin with. Our driving range opens tomorrow, I'm going to go this week with both impact tape and my launch monitor to see what results I get with the driver and moving the ball position slightly back.


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:taylormade-small:SIM 2 D Max with Fujikura Air Speeder Shaft 

Cobra  Radspeed 3W/RIptide Shaft
:ping-small:  410  Hybrids 22*, 26*

Cobra Speed Zone 6-GP/Recoil ESX 460 F3 Shafts 

:titelist-small: SM7 54* Wedge

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2019 Official Tester :ping-small:  410 Driver

2018 Official Tester :wilson-small: C300

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11 hours ago, sirchunksalot said:

You're welcome! I think it's something to definitely experiment with. My last round I noticed I was playing the ball way too far forward and it was leading to pulls. That and a slightly weaker grip helped me straighten it out. I've restarted SuperSpeed training and that always seems to give me a horrible case of the lefts. 

I try to position the ball around my left armpit or the logo of my shirt if there is one (logo, not shirt), but I do tend to creep forward a little if I'm not careful.  It seems to be a better marker for me since my stance width varies depending on the club, but the bottom of my swing seems to be around the armpit.

We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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Just now, Kenny B said:

I try to position the ball around my left armpit or the logo of my short if there is one, but I do tend to creep forward a little if I'm not careful.  It seems to be a better marker for me since my stance width varies depending on the club, but the bottom of my swing seems to be around the armpit.

Thanks for the advice @Kenny B, I'll definitely try that my next round. It's probably a lot more consistent and repeatable than for position for sure. My practice is suffering from the damage to the only driving range within 30 miles and I'm definitely getting sloppy without practice. 

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Just now, sirchunksalot said:

Thanks for the advice @Kenny B, I'll definitely try that my next round. It's probably a lot more consistent and repeatable than for position for sure. My practice is suffering from the damage to the only driving range within 30 miles and I'm definitely getting sloppy without practice. 

My game is not coming back very quickly from the shutdown.  Even though courses opened up here, we can't use the range except to warmup before our tee time.  The rust is only coming off through play, so it's a slow process and the poor scores aren't helpful with my attitude.

We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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Thank you @tony@CIC for linking this to the tee height discussion thread and thank you @sirchunksalot for sharing the video.  Whenever the rain clears up in a couple days, I'll have to hit the range and see what happens.    

Driver: Cobra Speedzone 10.5 Mitsubishi AV Blue S flex

Wood: Cobra Bio Cell 3-4 Grafalloy Pro Launch Blue (low launch original version) S flex

Hybrids: Taylormade GAPR 3 KBS graphite shaft

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Irons: Strata 6-PW R flex

Wedges: Texan Classics 52, 56, 60 R flex

Putter: Odyssey Red Ball mallet

Ball: Srixon Q Star Tour

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10 hours ago, AmishJason said:

Thank you @tony@CIC for linking this to the tee height discussion thread and thank you @sirchunksalot for sharing the video.  Whenever the rain clears up in a couple days, I'll have to hit the range and see what happens.    

I'd be surprised if you didn't see results. Be sure to take either foot spray or impact tape to see the ball impact on the face of the club. I found initially I wasn't swinging as hard because I was looking at improving impact position. so don't be surprised if that happens and you see a little less distance initially. Played 27 yesterday and VERY happy with my progress. 

Left Hand orientation

:taylormade-small:SIM 2 D Max with Fujikura Air Speeder Shaft 

Cobra  Radspeed 3W/RIptide Shaft
:ping-small:  410  Hybrids 22*, 26*

Cobra Speed Zone 6-GP/Recoil ESX 460 F3 Shafts 

:titelist-small: SM7 54* Wedge

:ping-small: Glide 3.0  60* Wedge

:odyssey-small: O Works putter

:ShotScope: V3
:918457628_PrecisionPro:NX9-HD

:CaddyTek: - 4 Wheel 

EZGO TXT 48v cart
:footjoy-small: - too many shoes to list and so many to buy

:1590477705_SunMountain: And  BAG Boy

Golf Balls: Vice Pro Plus 

2020 Official Teste:SuperSpeed: Beginning Driver Speed  - 78

2019 Official Tester :ping-small:  410 Driver

2018 Official Tester :wilson-small: C300

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My worst drives are typically when I tee the ball higher and place it more forward in my stance. Almost trying to force a more positive angle of attack and to get the ball higher. My normal drive is a mid height bullet that is the slightest of fades if there is any movement and runs out a fair amount. But on holes where there is a longer forced carry or an elevated tee box or some strong wind blowing in my favor, I feel compelled to try to hit the ball higher. and thats usually ends up in a big slice for me. 

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I forgot to reply to this thread after the weekend. I'm using a slightly lower tee than I was and I've positioned the ball further back in my stance...to me it looks like it's in the middle but it isn't. The results were nothing short of great, until the back 9 where I got tired/cocky.

1st hole, straight down the middle, 243 yards.

3rd hole, tried to get after it a bit, right rough, 240 yards.

4th hole, into the wind, right side of fairway, 220 yards. 

5th hole, down the middle, 234 yards.

6th hole, straight up the guts, 238 yards.

9th hole, right rough, through dogleg of fairway, 253 yards.

17th hole, straight down, 233 yards. 

In the bag:
Driver: :titelist-small: TSR2 Project X HZRDUS Black 5.5
Fairway: :callaway-small: Apex UW 19° & 21° Project X HZRDUS Smoke RDX Black 5.5

Irons: :mizuno-small: JPX 923 HMP 5-PW UST Mamiya Recoil 95 F4
Wedges: :mizuno-small: T-22 Denim Copper 48°, 52° & 56° UST Mamiya Recoil 95 F4
Putter :Sub70: Sycamore 005 Wide Blade
Bag: 
:Ogio: Alpha Convoy 514
Balls: :callaway-small: Chrome Soft X

Cart: :CaddyTek: CaddyLite ONE Ver. 8


God Bless America🇺🇸, God save the King🇬🇧, God defend New Zealand🇳🇿 and thank Christ for Australia🇦🇺!

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