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Help: longer shaft build recomndations?

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I have been on this journey of self fitting for a while now. I need help with your experience trying different things to help me see if I'm on the right track or way off base? 

Static measurements: 

  1. Wrist to floor: 37"
  2. Height 5'10.5"
  3. Swing speed: driver-105, iron-90ish
  4. Current grip: Golf Pride Tour Velvet Midsize 53-54g
  5. Current irons: Ping G2 Stiff, 2* up, std length

Goal

I want to explore clubs at about 1" over length to (1) allow for a more upright stance and (2) allow for a flatter lie angle than the 2* upright clubs I play now at standard length. 

I feel like my clubs at standard length and 2* up create a greater bow to the ball than I like or trying to stay upright creates a swing plane too steep. I can feel myself adjusting when I desire to just rotate. 

Problem:

When I tried +1" clubs at PGA Superstore and at a local demo day, I didn't like anything about them. I usually play a midsize grip and the test clubs were standard. Knowing +1" length increases swing weight 6 points and my normal midsize grips can lower the swingweight 1-2 points, it becomes clear that it would feel incredibly heavier swingweight than what I am used to at about D2. 

Knowledge base:

  1. Increased length of 1/2" = +3 swingweight points. 
  2. Increase of 4g grip weight decreases swingweight by 1 point. 
  3. Decrease of 9g shaft weight decreases swingweight by one point
  4. Increase head weight 2g increases swingweight by one point
  5. Golf Pride Tour Velvet: std-49-50g, jumbo-61g; CP2 std-52g, jumbo-78g

Hypothetical Solution: 

Increasing shafts length 1" = swingweight +3-6 points. Choosing a jumbo grip is about 12-28 grams heavier than standard which will lower the swingweight by 6-7 points. Then knowing +1" will cause the shaft to play a half to full flex softer, I would go from a Stiff to X-stiff shaft. Also, with the added weight of the grip, choosing a shaft that weighs about 105-110 grams instead of 115-125. Theoretically, this would be barely over the actual weight of the clubs I currently play and have a swingweight within 1-2 points (possibly lower).

Question:

Does this sound right? 

Do you have any experience doing this yourself? 

Note: people who say, "just go get fit" are not what I am asking. My problem has been they don't offer the bigger grip sizes during fits where I have gone. Also, I have already been contemplating switching to jumbo grips but have stayed away from it at standard length to avoid altering the swingweight too much lower. 

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In my opinion - you're way off base and you should probably stop this delusion journey of self diagnosis and self-indulgence and go and see a professional. 

37" wrist to floor at standard length and 2 degrees upright sounds spot on for a Ping static fitting, so unless you swing a club like an octopus falling from a tree, why on earth would you want to play at +1" at your height? (let me guess - because of what you think you need?) The same goes for your grips - you either need jumbo grips to fit your hand size or you don't - you never, ever fit a grip  of the wrong size to simply satisfy a swing weight scale - that is delusional logic in the extreme.

You need a reality check because there is too much info going on in your mind and it is clouding your judgement on what is going to work for your game. Leave the ego at home and go and see a professional who can guide you through the process of the swing and how it relates to your physique and your equipment and it will save you money in the long term. 

Or alternatively, you can continue the with the random guessing approach to self assessment BS. 

My 2 cents.

 

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12 hours ago, jaskanski said:

In my opinion - you're way off base and you should probably stop this delusion journey of self diagnosis and self-indulgence and go and see a professional. 

37" wrist to floor at standard length and 2 degrees upright sounds spot on for a Ping static fitting, so unless you swing a club like an octopus falling from a tree, why on earth would you want to play at +1" at your height? (let me guess - because of what you think you need?) The same goes for your grips - you either need jumbo grips to fit your hand size or you don't - you never, ever fit a grip  of the wrong size to simply satisfy a swing weight scale - that is delusional logic in the extreme.

You need a reality check because there is too much info going on in your mind and it is clouding your judgement on what is going to work for your game. Leave the ego at home and go and see a professional who can guide you through the process of the swing and how it relates to your physique and your equipment and it will save you money in the long term. 

Or alternatively, you can continue the with the random guessing approach to self assessment BS. 

My 2 cents.

 

Have you built clubs for people before? Are you speaking from experience as a club maker or have you needed clubs with +1" and/or jumbo grips that you can share personal insights on?

I believe you missed the point. 

I want to know people's experience or expertise in this exact situation, or as close to it as possible. 

Your response was a slap in the face instead of a reality check. Nothing you said actually shed any greater light on the subject.

Your backhanded insults to leave my ego at home is logically unfounded. The point of this post is asking for help because I already left my ego aside. If it was ego driven then I would have already ordered clubs and would only come on here to boast how great I am, but that is NOT what is going on here. 

While I appreciate you reading, and responding, to my post I would rather you kept to the task at hand and not provided the exact response that does no good.

 

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6 hours ago, TimoTe said:

Have you built clubs for people before? 

 

You could say I've made a few. 😂

Apologies if it sounded harsh - but I think you need professional help rather than anecdotal advice.

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Are there any people playing 1/2" or 1" over clubs that can shed some light on how there are made up for them?

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I'm 6'4". I use +.5 or +.75 depending upon manufacturer and 2.25 upright (again, depending on manufacturer). You using a longer club than I at 6 inches shorter would be poorly fitted clubs, at minimum.

Geometry just doesnt lie.

Sent from my SM-G950U using MyGolfSpy mobile app

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8 minutes ago, JDHolmes said:

I'm 6'4". I use +.5 or +.75 depending upon manufacturer and 2.25 upright (again, depending on manufacturer). You using a longer club than I at 6 inches shorter would be poorly fitted clubs, at minimum.

Geometry just doesnt lie.

Sent from my SM-G950U using MyGolfSpy mobile app
 

Thanks JD. 

Just curious, if you don't mind me asking, what is your wrist to floor measurement with tennis shoes on? This is measured while standing up straight against a wall from the floor to the crease in your wrist just where your hand meets your arm. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, JDHolmes said:

I'm 6'4". I use +.5 or +.75 depending upon manufacturer and 2.25 upright (again, depending on manufacturer). You using a longer club than I at 6 inches shorter would be poorly fitted clubs, at minimum.

Geometry just doesnt lie.

Sent from my SM-G950U using MyGolfSpy mobile app
 

Also, in addition to your wrist to floor measurement, what shaft did you go with? What grip size and model? 

I get into the details. 

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@TimoTe There is no problem with wanting to tinker and I am no professional at club building but have built a few sets for myself and friends.  Here are my 2 cents.

Going 1" long is a big change but its fun to tinker maybe start with one club as a test and see how you like it.  First I would be more concerned about total weight rather than Swingweight, you know its going to be a little heavier but you can add lead tape 3-4" down the shaft from the end of your grip, to test total weigh.  Its probably a good idea to know how much more weight, if any you can still swing well.   

Instead of using the grip to "trick" the Swingweight scale try using a counterbalanced iron shaft to keep the Swingweight where you want it and use the grip you like.  Steelfiber 110CW is counterbalanced and will drop the SW scale around 3 points, and its plenty stiff enough where you won't have to go up in flex, if you are really concerned you could hard step it.  

 


Ping G400 LST 10* - Rogue silver 110

Callaway Rogue 15* - Even Flow Blue

Callaway Apex 18* & 23*  Kuro Kage

Ping i500 (reg spec) Steelfiber 110CW

Ping i210 6-UW Steelfiber 110CW

Ping Glide 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold X100 SoftStepped

Ping Nome TR

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Thanks JD. 
Just curious, if you don't mind me asking, what is your wrist to floor measurement with tennis shoes on? This is measured while standing up straight against a wall from the floor to the crease in your wrist just where your hand meets your arm. 
 
 
36.5-37. Difficult to be exact solo but that's close.

Sent from my SM-G950U using MyGolfSpy mobile app

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Also, in addition to your wrist to floor measurement, what shaft did you go with? What grip size and model? 
I get into the details. 
In my conbra forged tech irons, I use C taper lites in stiff. Bent to ping i25 standard lofts, 2.25 upright.


In my Ping i200 set, I use KBS Tour 120s, green dot 2.25 up + 1/2.

In my Ping i25s, I use stiff graphite, white dot 3.0 upright, + 3/4.

I prefer standard grips though gauges suggest I use midsize. I use Tour wraps or Winn dri-tac on all clubs except putter. These three sets all have tour wraps. Standard size

Sent from my SM-G950U using MyGolfSpy mobile app

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On 5/14/2020 at 5:48 PM, TimoTe said:

I have been on this journey of self fitting for a while now. I need help with your experience trying different things to help me see if I'm on the right track or way off base? 

Static measurements: 

  1. Wrist to floor: 37"
  2. Height 5'10.5"
  3. Swing speed: driver-105, iron-90ish
  4. Current grip: Golf Pride Tour Velvet Midsize 53-54g
  5. Current irons: Ping G2 Stiff, 2* up, std length

Goal

I want to explore clubs at about 1" over length to (1) allow for a more upright stance and (2) allow for a flatter lie angle than the 2* upright clubs I play now at standard length. 

I feel like my clubs at standard length and 2* up create a greater bow to the ball than I like or trying to stay upright creates a swing plane too steep. I can feel myself adjusting when I desire to just rotate. 

Problem:

When I tried +1" clubs at PGA Superstore and at a local demo day, I didn't like anything about them. I usually play a midsize grip and the test clubs were standard. Knowing +1" length increases swing weight 6 points and my normal midsize grips can lower the swingweight 1-2 points, it becomes clear that it would feel incredibly heavier swingweight than what I am used to at about D2. 

Knowledge base:

  1. Increased length of 1/2" = +3 swingweight points. 
  2. Increase of 4g grip weight decreases swingweight by 1 point. 
  3. Decrease of 9g shaft weight decreases swingweight by one point
  4. Increase head weight 2g increases swingweight by one point
  5. Golf Pride Tour Velvet: std-49-50g, jumbo-61g; CP2 std-52g, jumbo-78g

Hypothetical Solution: 

Increasing shafts length 1" = swingweight +3-6 points. Choosing a jumbo grip is about 12-28 grams heavier than standard which will lower the swingweight by 6-7 points. Then knowing +1" will cause the shaft to play a half to full flex softer, I would go from a Stiff to X-stiff shaft. Also, with the added weight of the grip, choosing a shaft that weighs about 105-110 grams instead of 115-125. Theoretically, this would be barely over the actual weight of the clubs I currently play and have a swingweight within 1-2 points (possibly lower).

Question:

Does this sound right? 

Do you have any experience doing this yourself? 

Note: people who say, "just go get fit" are not what I am asking. My problem has been they don't offer the bigger grip sizes during fits where I have gone. Also, I have already been contemplating switching to jumbo grips but have stayed away from it at standard length to avoid altering the swingweight too much lower. 

Bottom line up front: Regarding your hypothetical question/scenario -- Your math is correct and Yes it sounds right for those numbers. Don't know if you have already solved your questions but I wanted to share my experiences both as fitting myself and others regarding irons  l(length/lie angles, loft gapping/grip sizes,etc).

Also you have more swing speed than I do so I am not comparing what fits me to you, I just want to share my rationale as I think some of it could positively affect how you approach your clubs. I appreciate any questions, criticisms as this is a subject that can be challenging due to number of variables involved.

So for me I favor 4 deg between irons at only 3/8" variance regarding lengths. I use to build my clubs or have them built with 1/2" increments but found I had inconsitencies with ball strike accuracy. Once I read about 3/8" between my irons, my accuracy was more consistent and like between my irons, especially my short irons. I did adjust lofts to gap the distances needed (carry is my priority vs total roll out). Also I no longer use lie board to adjust my lie angles, I do a simple vertical sharpie test (vertical line on the ball-see where impact mark on face is and adjust accordingly).

Also the 3/8" length approach reduced the amount of back weighting (under grip) and/or choosing a shaft / grip model I did not particularly like due to weight/balance desires for the total assembled club. Again, note I am a slower swing speed golfer and weight is everything to me as I am also very sensitive regarding how a  club "feels" while I swing -- I am one of the few that does not like to feel the club head during the swing -- only impact. A mentor of mine said I fall in the balanced club feel category vs liking the feel of the club head if that makes sense. 

Due to my single plane like golf posture (stand further from ball) , I do build/fit myself to longer length clubs (only as long as I can create center strikes, but 3/8" between clubs for length differences). And I do use Tour Lock back weights for counterbalance to fail in feel (I choke down a little on each club). Again that is to dial in the balanced feel I desire and so I don't feel the club head during the swing. Near impossible to go to a fitting anywhere to achieve what I like, one of the reasons I learned/taught myself years ago how to assemble clubs and do club fitting. 

 

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7 hours ago, JDHolmes said:

36.5-37. Difficult to be exact solo but that's close.

Sent from my SM-G950U using MyGolfSpy mobile app
 

So, our wrist to floor is about the same even though you are much taller. Since you play 2.25* up then at another 1/2" longer it would be standard lie. 

Thanks for getting back with those details. 

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5 hours ago, aerospace_ray said:

Bottom line up front: Regarding your hypothetical question/scenario -- Your math is correct and Yes it sounds right for those numbers. Don't know if you have already solved your questions but I wanted to share my experiences both as fitting myself and others regarding irons  l(length/lie angles, loft gapping/grip sizes,etc).

Also you have more swing speed than I do so I am not comparing what fits me to you, I just want to share my rationale as I think some of it could positively affect how you approach your clubs. I appreciate any questions, criticisms as this is a subject that can be challenging due to number of variables involved.

So for me I favor 4 deg between irons at only 3/8" variance regarding lengths. I use to build my clubs or have them built with 1/2" increments but found I had inconsitencies with ball strike accuracy. Once I read about 3/8" between my irons, my accuracy was more consistent and like between my irons, especially my short irons. I did adjust lofts to gap the distances needed (carry is my priority vs total roll out). Also I no longer use lie board to adjust my lie angles, I do a simple vertical sharpie test (vertical line on the ball-see where impact mark on face is and adjust accordingly).

Also the 3/8" length approach reduced the amount of back weighting (under grip) and/or choosing a shaft / grip model I did not particularly like due to weight/balance desires for the total assembled club. Again, note I am a slower swing speed golfer and weight is everything to me as I am also very sensitive regarding how a  club "feels" while I swing -- I am one of the few that does not like to feel the club head during the swing -- only impact. A mentor of mine said I fall in the balanced club feel category vs liking the feel of the club head if that makes sense. 

Due to my single plane like golf posture (stand further from ball) , I do build/fit myself to longer length clubs (only as long as I can create center strikes, but 3/8" between clubs for length differences). And I do use Tour Lock back weights for counterbalance to fail in feel (I choke down a little on each club). Again that is to dial in the balanced feel I desire and so I don't feel the club head during the swing. Near impossible to go to a fitting anywhere to achieve what I like, one of the reasons I learned/taught myself years ago how to assemble clubs and do club fitting. 

 

3/8" increments is interesting. I heard about it a couple years ago but never fully researched it. 

My question is which club is the starting point? 

If the long iron is the starting point at standard length then the shorter irons get 1/8" over length as you go down. 

If the wedge is the starting point at standard length then the clubs would be shorter than standard by 1/8" as you progress to the long iron. 

I can see a benefit of using this progression to start at 9i +1" and only increase by 3/8" so my 5i would only be 1/2" over (my longest iron before my 4i utility driving iron). It makes me think of also using 105g, 110g, 115g shaft progressions to partially offset the swingweight changes with 3/8" stepping. Additionally, I would probably stick to +1" in my PW and GW or the swingweight would be too much. 

Thanks again for the response. 

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I meant to include that I started at the UW (50 deg) iron  down to the 6 iron (30 deg). (3/8" between clubs) 

(GW/SW/LW @ 1/2" but steel shafts - same head weights -- back weights under grips ~20-30 grams

A decade ago I was still able to consistently hit my five iron, occasional crossover like 4 iron off the tee. Today I stop at the six iron. Hybrids and woods are a 1/2" but its easier for me to get the weight/feel correct with those through lighter .335 shafts (even my hybrids are .335/Wishons). The lighter shafts in woods/hybrids allow me to actually play heavier club heads and I can easily back weight under grip to dial in what I like.

Iron shafts being .370/.355 are heavier and shorter thus the weighting at 1/2" increments was a little more tricky for me. For example, once I would get the balance/feel at 1/2" increments --  I still had a somewhat heavier total club weight and over time that has taken its toll. So the beauty with 3/8" for me at least is that it allows the clubs to feel much more similar (think single length -- lots of guys only do it because all the clubs feel the same--that is kinda what I am after) and not as heavy total weight. Again I am overly sensitive regarding feel and 3/8" solved or simplified the right feel I like in my irons. Most people that I have ever built a club for have been strong enough and have enough swing speed that 1/2" between clubs is fine. 

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I'm on the other side of it, I'm 6' but have a 6'4" wing span and 33" wrist to floor (ape arms). Depending on the MFG, that leaves me 1-2* flat and 0-.5" short. 

I hated a set of Cobras I bought (standard lie and length for Cobra) 5 years ago and when I went to a professional fitter for an equipment eval the lie board, and line test we're showing that the clubs worked. It wasn't until I took a lesson that my coach who I had worked with before was able to show me on video that the clubs worked because I had changed my swing to make them work (jumping before impact to create space and get the club steep). That jumping was killing my consistency leading to fats and thins.

My point is, if you're a good ball striker you will be able to adjust your movement pattern around a 1/2in, maybe 1 in difference and the difference in lie that goes with it. You might not even know you're doing it, your body is just adjusting to the task. To the previous poster, yes, geometry doesn't lie, BUT, the static geometry of your wrist to floor measurement and height changes when you are in a dynamic movement. The golf swing is a dynamic movement.

Remember, effectively what you are doing by adding length is making your 37" 64* (+2 lie) 7 iron length 7 iron into a 38" 64* (+3 lie to length) 5 iron length 7 iron. So if you go 1" longer, you will have to bend the lie 1 flat to maintain the same hand position at address. Adding an inch and not adjusting lie will put you in a more upright position with higher hands. Higher hands at address cues up added steepness in my swing, but your mileage may vary.

Regarding the desire to be more upright - I was talking to a fitter/teacher who has a deal w Cobra selling 39" single length irons (+1.5"). He teaches a "rotational" swing from an upright position for those w low back pain/injury. I don't know if he adjusted the lies flat on those sets or not,but several of his students had a massive swing change immediately "click" from being in a new position w the new gear.

Being professionally fit is great, but if something feels off, it's worth it to experiment. If I were you id go on eBay and buy a stray g2 head and a glue-in shaft extension. All-in cost should be well under a hundo and you will definitely learn something about your swing DNA that would not be exposed by a professional fitter who is trying to stay within the guard rails of a 1 hr session and "the swing you brought" that day. I think there's benefit to intellectually understanding how your swing works and how able you are as a golfer to adjust. Best of luck!


“He’s a Cinderella story. A former assistant groundskeeper about to become the Masters champion. It looks like a mirac… It’s in the hole! It’s in the hole! It’s in the hole!” — Carl Spackler

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2 hours ago, aerospace_ray said:

I meant to include that I started at the UW (50 deg) iron  down to the 6 iron (30 deg). (3/8" between clubs) 

(GW/SW/LW @ 1/2" but steel shafts - same head weights -- back weights under grips ~20-30 grams

A decade ago I was still able to consistently hit my five iron, occasional crossover like 4 iron off the tee. Today I stop at the six iron. Hybrids and woods are a 1/2" but its easier for me to get the weight/feel correct with those through lighter .335 shafts (even my hybrids are .335/Wishons). The lighter shafts in woods/hybrids allow me to actually play heavier club heads and I can easily back weight under grip to dial in what I like.

Iron shafts being .370/.355 are heavier and shorter thus the weighting at 1/2" increments was a little more tricky for me. For example, once I would get the balance/feel at 1/2" increments --  I still had a somewhat heavier total club weight and over time that has taken its toll. So the beauty with 3/8" for me at least is that it allows the clubs to feel much more similar (think single length -- lots of guys only do it because all the clubs feel the same--that is kinda what I am after) and not as heavy total weight. Again I am overly sensitive regarding feel and 3/8" solved or simplified the right feel I like in my irons. Most people that I have ever built a club for have been strong enough and have enough swing speed that 1/2" between clubs is fine. 

That makes sense why I saw a thread on another forum adding tip weights in increasing amounts because each club is essentially 1/8" shorter after your UW, thus making the head designed for 1/2" gaps too light if you wanted the same swing weights. 

Fascinating stuff. 

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1 hour ago, Grit Golf said:

I'm on the other side of it, I'm 6' but have a 6'4" wing span and 33" wrist to floor (ape arms). Depending on the MFG, that leaves me 1-2* flat and 0-.5" short. 

I hated a set of Cobras I bought (standard lie and length for Cobra) 5 years ago and when I went to a professional fitter for an equipment eval the lie board, and line test we're showing that the clubs worked. It wasn't until I took a lesson that my coach who I had worked with before was able to show me on video that the clubs worked because I had changed my swing to make them work (jumping before impact to create space and get the club steep). That jumping was killing my consistency leading to fats and thins.

My point is, if you're a good ball striker you will be able to adjust your movement pattern around a 1/2in, maybe 1 in difference and the difference in lie that goes with it. You might not even know you're doing it, your body is just adjusting to the task. To the previous poster, yes, geometry doesn't lie, BUT, the static geometry of your wrist to floor measurement and height changes when you are in a dynamic movement. The golf swing is a dynamic movement.

Remember, effectively what you are doing by adding length is making your 37" 64* (+2 lie) 7 iron length 7 iron into a 38" 64* (+3 lie to length) 5 iron length 7 iron. So if you go 1" longer, you will have to bend the lie 1 flat to maintain the same hand position at address. Adding an inch and not adjusting lie will put you in a more upright position with higher hands. Higher hands at address cues up added steepness in my swing, but your mileage may vary.

Regarding the desire to be more upright - I was talking to a fitter/teacher who has a deal w Cobra selling 39" single length irons (+1.5"). He teaches a "rotational" swing from an upright position for those w low back pain/injury. I don't know if he adjusted the lies flat on those sets or not,but several of his students had a massive swing change immediately "click" from being in a new position w the new gear.

Being professionally fit is great, but if something feels off, it's worth it to experiment. If I were you id go on eBay and buy a stray g2 head and a glue-in shaft extension. All-in cost should be well under a hundo and you will definitely learn something about your swing DNA that would not be exposed by a professional fitter who is trying to stay within the guard rails of a 1 hr session and "the swing you brought" that day. I think there's benefit to intellectually understanding how your swing works and how able you are as a golfer to adjust. Best of luck!

Thank you for sharing your experience. 

You are right on that longer clubs will require a flatter lie than I play now, and that is exactly my goal. 

My favorite Clubs are my 5w, 4h, and 5i which is the biggest part of why I think I would benefit from longer clubs in my irons. Length has been my friend because it allows me to stand what seems more natural. 

I watch people on the range hit balls to see how they end up where they do. I see lots of swing flaws and offer my eyes to people all the time. This one short Asian man is playing standard length clubs that are obviously too long/upright for his swing path. He is constantly flinching to compensate for impact and never can really flush one because the toe is up in the air. He tries so hard when he could make the game a bunch easier if he gets fit. 

Thanks again for responding.  

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@TimoTe I have done the 3/8” increments with a 1/2 swingweight point between each club. You essentially are doing a poor mans MOI matched set. It should offer even more forgiveness and consistency throughout your entire set. 
 

Generally you take your favorite iron spec it out (Swingweight, total weight, length, grip etc...) then you build off of that club. For you with a 5 iron, each iron would be 3/8” shorter and a half SW point heavier. 
 

Since you want to experiment with a club at different specs from your current irons, I would see if I could find one on eBay. Ideally the same 5 iron you already have but the new specs or close to it. Use that club to experiment with shafts and length adjustments even lie adjustments. This way you can test against the club you like best. 

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Ping G400 LST 10* - Rogue silver 110

Callaway Rogue 15* - Even Flow Blue

Callaway Apex 18* & 23*  Kuro Kage

Ping i500 (reg spec) Steelfiber 110CW

Ping i210 6-UW Steelfiber 110CW

Ping Glide 54* & 58* Dynamic Gold X100 SoftStepped

Ping Nome TR

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With all the information available online, taking to Hireko's tech guy, and your responses I have narrowed it down to a shaft to try and two heads. 

The heads are:

  1. Maltby KE4 Tour + because it has a 6g weight in the head that can be changed as low as 2g to lessen swingweight easily
  2. Acer XV Pro because it is half the price of the Maltby and has the progressive bounce angles I prefer

The shaft is True Temper Dynamic Gold SL X100 - weighs approx 100g. I found a seller of 6 or 8 new shafts for a good deal at less than half of retail. 

I am thinking of soft stepping the shaft to play closer to S+ but, with the extra inch it will probably already play softer. 

The information I found about trying to match swingweight using a heavier grip suggests that it will not really have much effect at all in felt heft of the club because it is in the butt end of the club. 

My calculations of 1 inch longer being 6 swingweight points heavier is correct. I can lower the head weight of the Maltby by 4g which is less 2 swingweight points. The lighter shaft than I am currently playing will only lower my swingweight by about 1 or 1.5. 

For me to lower the SW by at least 4 points using the shaft I would need a shaft about 36 grams less than 108 but, I don't want a high torque, high launch, and soft flex graphite. Nor do I want to pay $40-90 per shaft to accomplish what is possible because I am too frugal/cheap and, don't want to afford it. 

I will build a couple test clubs from Hireko. Then I will let y'all know how it turned out. 

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