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appletonjim

Playing out of footprints in the sand or moving the ball?

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No rakes on the course and less than good foot smoothing is leaving some pretty deep dug in footprints.  I get the playing it down part - we do that in fairways and rough.  However if I were in a tire rut it would be ground under repair.  Or should we be leaving 'em in the footprint or moving it to a non-footprint spot?  Obviously don't hit it in the sand is the better plan but...  Hopefully there will be rakes out again soon so this will be a non-issue.  


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3 minutes ago, appletonjim said:

No rakes on the course and less than good foot smoothing is leaving some pretty deep dug in footprints.  I get the playing it down part - we do that in fairways and rough.  However if I were in a tire rut it would be ground under repair.  Or should we be leaving 'em in the footprint or moving it to a non-footprint spot?  Obviously don't hit it in the sand is the better plan but...  Hopefully there will be rakes out again soon so this will be a non-issue.  

Tire rut in a bunker, play it as it lies no relief. 

I feel same way about footprints and everything else bunkers. We have been spoiled by maintained bunkers and that is not their intention. I hope rakes don't come back. 

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Courses I've played are doing preferred lies in bunkers. Lift, smooth your lie, and place as close as possible to where it was. Felt like PReed yesterday it was nice!

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16 minutes ago, appletonjim said:

No rakes on the course and less than good foot smoothing is leaving some pretty deep dug in footprints.  I get the playing it down part - we do that in fairways and rough.  However if I were in a tire rut it would be ground under repair.  Or should we be leaving 'em in the footprint or moving it to a non-footprint spot?  Obviously don't hit it in the sand is the better plan but...  Hopefully there will be rakes out again soon so this will be a non-issue.  

To be clear, a rut is not by definition Ground under Repair even in the General Area, although the rut is a good reason for the Committee to mark that area.  I'm on the fence while we have unusual measures to minimize disease transmission, and I'd recommend that each course or Committee make its own decision, and that all of the players play under the same rules.  The USGA has provided significant guidance regarding bunkers during Covid measures here:
https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules-hub/rulesarticles/covid-19-rules-and-handicapping-faqs.html

 

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My course removed rakes and added a local rule allowing preferred lies. But even when rakes are readily available, I’ve found myself in plenty of footprints.

So I’m embracing “rub-o-the-green” - because it’s good practice, a nod toward tradition, and I’m not keeping score anyway.

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Let them be natural or just get rid of bunkers. People are too lazy to rake them or courses don't have the funds to maintain them.

Take Dead Aim

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If all golfers understood and used the intended entrance/exit designed into the overwhelming majority of bunkers, a little foot smoothing would probably be adequate cleanup for the majority of beach crime scenes. It’s when people go tumbling down and climbing out of the faces that a long rake is needed to drag the yard of displaced sand back into place.

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Move the ball...duh


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Move the ball...duh


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I concur!!!


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Our committee has ruled that if the ball lies in a foot print (or other damaged area), it is acceptable to move the ball.  However, this does not mean that you can take it out of the buried lie in the side of the bunker from impact and place it on the flat surface for a perfect lie. 😄 .

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Play it as it lies unless course implements a local rule. If someone forgot to take a bunker when rakes are there you have to play it a it lies, no difference here 

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In our City Championship two years ago our Pro decided not to “groom” the bunkers before play started, and did not list them as GUR. Guys were complaining all day during round one. The Pro told them, “Bunkers are supposed to be penal. If you don’t like it, don’t hit your ball into them!” All I care is that they’re not rock hard, other than that, it isn’t “supposed” to be manicured, so play it in the bunker.


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We are playing for money - small money to be sure - so we play 'em down and hole out putts (you would have a scratch handicap if you made all your putts so don't ask for it).  I get rub of the green. You get behind clumps in the rough or in divots in the fairway and you just play it.  I don't need a perfect lie in the sand but if someone digs in their stance the ball can be below the surface of the sand.  Responses are mixed - at this point I am just asking partners if it is OK to move it just like I would in a really bad rut or casual water which happens in the spring here.

Thanks for all your feed back - I hope you (and I) never hit 'em in the sand.

Jim

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4 hours ago, appletonjim said:

We are playing for money - small money to be sure - so we play 'em down and hole out putts (you would have a scratch handicap if you made all your putts so don't ask for it).  I get rub of the green. You get behind clumps in the rough or in divots in the fairway and you just play it.  I don't need a perfect lie in the sand but if someone digs in their stance the ball can be below the surface of the sand.  Responses are mixed - at this point I am just asking partners if it is OK to move it just like I would in a really bad rut or casual water which happens in the spring here.

Thanks for all your feed back - I hope you (and I) never hit 'em in the sand.

Jim

This makes sense to me.  Without specific guidance from your club, its appropriate to define your own rules for these odd times.  As long as everyone is playing by the same rules, its fair.  Please also remember, the USGA has decided to allow handicap posting, so unless your club or region says not to, please post your scores.

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I've encountered plenty of bad lies on the golf course and it is extremely rare for me to move the ball. Basically, I have to be having a really bad day and playing by myself or have someone yelling at me to move the ball. Under normal circumstances, I like a challenge and trying to figure out how to play different lies is important to player development. What if you were playing a round that mattered and had no recourse? 

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18 hours ago, TR1PTIK said:

I've encountered plenty of bad lies on the golf course and it is extremely rare for me to move the ball. Basically, I have to be having a really bad day and playing by myself or have someone yelling at me to move the ball. Under normal circumstances, I like a challenge and trying to figure out how to play different lies is important to player development. What if you were playing a round that mattered and had no recourse? 

If I was playing a tournament and the rule was to play it down no matter what, I would without complaint (or at least without loud complaint).   I like challenges too, but how would you feel if you have a chance to win something in the team game and your playing partner says he can clear that 250 yard water hazard when he hasn't carried one that far all day.  His (and thus my/our) likelihood of success is minimal but if he thought that was a personal challenge he can do it.  He'll be a better golfer if he learns to make that shot but I would hope he learns it during practice.   Anyway it is always an ask situation - never assume anything and move it without checking. 


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1 hour ago, appletonjim said:

If I was playing a tournament and the rule was to play it down no matter what, I would without complaint (or at least without loud complaint).   I like challenges too, but how would you feel if you have a chance to win something in the team game and your playing partner says he can clear that 250 yard water hazard when he hasn't carried one that far all day.  His (and thus my/our) likelihood of success is minimal but if he thought that was a personal challenge he can do it.  He'll be a better golfer if he learns to make that shot but I would hope he learns it during practice.   Anyway it is always an ask situation - never assume anything and move it without checking. 

You're talking course management vs. playing from a bad lie. Apples and oranges my friend.

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Interesting, NCGA sent out info regarding tournament season starting. Here is what they say about bunkers. C922E4CC-8780-4998-BAA9-F985E05BFDDD.thumb.png.75a32eb611751e5ff90199495553149d.png

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1 hour ago, THEZIPR23 said:

Interesting, NCGA sent out info regarding tournament season starting. Here is what they say about bunkers. C922E4CC-8780-4998-BAA9-F985E05BFDDD.thumb.png.75a32eb611751e5ff90199495553149d.png

In the current state of things, preferred lies in bunkers really makes the most sense to me

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Given current climate regarding health concerns I would hope local course leadership would clearly communicate guidance related to sand/bunker play.

Outside a tournament or league play in which local club / official USGA rules govern its really the group members playing and agreeing to their own ground rules IMO.

Personally I vote to move the ball in the OP scenario. This is one of those challenges that's either quickly resolved/easy to address or gets very controversial per ones interpretation of how the situation should be addressed.

I usually try to get the issues identified/discussed before teeing off but yeah sometimes the unexpected surfaces.

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