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Club Champion Putter Fitting


Micah T
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I went through one in Dec 2018 and was underwhelmed by the putter fitting.  I think if I had just paid for the experience of that rather than the full bag fitting, it may have been different, but I did not try any other putters, just adjusted my gamer a bit.  Also it looks like you have more data points and information than what I received.

Found from my data that my putting stroke is pretty good overall, but I do have my face aim and contact a bit open, but now 1 1/2 years later don't feel like I really know much more about my putting data.

Edited by juspoole
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Driver:  image.png.3c6db1120d888f669e07d4a8f890b3f1.pngMavrik Sub Zero 9* (Set to 10) Ventus Blue 6X

2 Hybrid: :titelist-small: TSI3 Hybrid Tensei Blue 80 X

4 Iron - Srixon ZX 23* Recoil F5                                                     Testing: :titelist-small: T200 4 Iron Graphite Design Tour AD IZ X Hybrid Shaft

Irons 5-PW: :mizuno-small: MP 18 SC Dynamic Gold AMT X                   Testing: :titelist-small: T100-S 5 - GW KBS Tour 130 X

Gap/Sand Wedge:  :titelist-small: Vokey SM6 49*  SM8 54* 

Lob Wedge:  image.png.3c6db1120d888f669e07d4a8f890b3f1.pngJaws 5 Wedge 58* DG Tour Issue Stiff

Putter:   :scotty-small: Phantom 5.5 34"      Pro Platinum Newport 2 35"      Taylormade Tour Black Spider 34"

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I really like the full puttlab report and not the fitting report. Based on looking at the data you struggle with both path and rotation/face angle at impact.

Putter fittings are difficult and take more than just looking at the puttlab numbers and taking its recommendation. Looking forward to hearing how the information was explained and why the recommendation was made.
@juspoole, what was you expectation from the fitting and what additional information did you want that you didn’t get? Did you ask questions? Sometimes you already have the right equipment and it just needs a lift/lie tweak. Would you have t same underwhelming feeling if the fitter told you some of your other clubs were good and you didn’t need to change?

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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :callaway-small: 54-10S   :cleveland-small: 588  58-12
Putter:  :seemore-small: mFGP2

Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330, :taylormade-small:TM-180, :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, Bellum Winmore 787

 

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I've been thinking about pulling the trigger on a new putter for a little bit, but I wanted all the data I could gather to make a decision. When I started playing in 2016, I was gifted my current gamer, a Ping Zing Anser which I re-gripped with a golf pride Tour Sensor pistol grip. I've been playing that putter for 140+ rounds, early last month I bought a taylormade mezza monza mallet putter and had played a few rounds with it before going back to the Ping. When I decided to get fitted for a putter, I knew I didn't want to go to a big box, I wanted a more custom, one on one approach. So for us in the Salt Lake Valley, it boils down to Club Champion or GolfTec. I picked Club Champion based on location, and because GolfTec leans towards instruction, and I wasn't interested in that: I just want data to help me decide between a mallet and blade, and then have the loft and lie adjusted for my stroke. I made the appointment online, and filled out brief questionnaire.

When I arrived I was met by my fitter, Kolton. We sat down and discussed my handicap, the golf courses I normally play, and how I interpret my own putting stroke. (I feel like I read putts very well, my putts tend to die in the hole, and I miss putts short more than left or right, but if I do miss, its a pull left)

I rolled some putts with a random putter while he took measurements from my putter: turns out my putter was slightly bent! Once he had my putter's measurements, we began the actual fitting.

1st diagram: Putter Stroke/Path from the Top: Very Strong Arc

Turns out I have a very strong arc in my putting stroke; no huge surprise there as I can see that on my own watching my practice stroke. More interesting to me was that my putter face was only .3 degrees open at impact, which might explain all my right edge misses and lip outs. Kolton immediately said that despite the sam lab suggesting that I could play either a blade or a mallet, that my arcing putting stroke definitely means I'd be more consistent with a blade. 

Diagnosis: Blade Style putter

2nd diagram: Face Rotation Relative to Path: Neutral

Much to Kolton's surprise, I manage to keep the putter face almost perfectly square coming into and leaving the strike zone: apparently this is uncommon for someone with as strong of a putting arc as mine.  

Diagnosis: 30 degrees of Toe Hang

3rd diagram: Aiming : Slightly open

My Face aim is 1.1 degrees open: Kolton suggested that this was due to my current gamer having 90 degrees of toe hang: my aiming right was to compensate for how quickly my face closed. An unconscious correction to fix my roll.

Diagnosis: Offset putter head

4th diagram: Launch Conditions: Effective Loft Reduced

My gamer has 1.5 degrees of loft: not ideal for the courses I play, but I also deliver a downward 1.5 degree stroke, effectively zeroing the loft at impact. Not great for the muni's I usually play.

Diagnosis: 3.6 - 3.9 degrees of Loft

5th diagram: Lie at Impact: Perfect

I can actually do something right! I deliver the putter to the ball flat, neither toe up or toe down.

Diagnosis: 69 degree Lie

6th diagram: Rotation/Consistency: Increased Rotation/Average Consistency

So there's a lot going on in my stroke, and I do an average job of repeating that stroke. This was the biggest "Club Champion Pitch" I heard all day: that it was remarkable that I could even be that consistent with such an ill-fitting putter.

 

At this point, Kolton started to select putter heads and build them to my specs for me to try. I'll post my experience with each and my final selection in my next post. The Putters I tried in no particular order:

Scotty Cameron Newport 2

Bettinardi BB1

Odyssey Stroke Lab Black One

Odyssey Toulon San Diego

TaylorMade Patina Juno

Edited by Micah T
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So I tried 10 putts with each putter from 5 feet, and 10 putts from 10 feet in an attempt to whittle the field down to 2. I'm going to include my make/attempts rate as well as my observations. The first three eliminated were:

Bettinardi BB1: 3/5 from 5ft  6/10 from 10ft: Putter felt objectively "heavy" to me and I didn't care for how I aimed it at setup. Good sound and roll though

Odyssey Stroke Lab Black 1: 2/5 from 5ft 7/10 from 10ft: Zero feel at impact: almost mushy off the face, I did like how it looked at address, but didn't care for the sound.

Odyssey Toulon San Diego: 4/5 from 5ft 7/10 from 10ft: I really wanted this putter! Before I came in, I thought for sure I'd leave with this or a Scotty Cameron. Loved how it looks at address, good sound, great roll, but again, I didn't love the feel coming off the face: I guess the best way I can explain that is I had to watch my putt, I didn't know from impact that I holed it, and with the 2 finalists I definitely did.

Which brings us to the 2 remaining putters:

Scotty Cameron Select Newport 2: 5/5 from 5ft 9/10 from 10ft: I see why people are obsessed with these putters: aesthetically speaking, its the best looking putter I've had the pleasure of using. And the looks were backed up with great performance: feel, sound, roll were all A+: my only negative was the grip being too skinny for me, which is a non-issue when a club is being built for you. 

Taylormade Patina Juno: 5/5 from 5ft 10/10 from 10ft: Aside from the fact that I couldn't miss with this putter, I was really impressed with how well  the ball rolled: sound and feel were both A+ as well, and I really liked the weight of this putter. Aesthetically, it reminds of my Ping Zing at address, and a little bit like a scotty cameron on the underside. 

The Winner?

770300339_taylormadeputter.png.dbf74a27e959ffb4a91b9004b55a0186.png

 

I feel like I should remind everyone that the point of my fitting was to decide what type of putter to buy, not simply see if any putter "outperformed" my gamer: turns out any of the 5 finalists outperformed my gamer, mostly due to the fact that I was playing a putter with too much toe hang for my stroke. I think the most difficult part of the fitting for Kolton was him explaining why we shouldn't try some face-balanced, mallet-style putters. His answer was, "the cpu can sometimes contradict itself". Which on the surface felt like a cop-out, so I pressed him further: he stuck by his original observation of "anyone with a very strong putting arc needs a blade". I pointed out that the cpu said either a blade or a mallet, and he countered by saying that the fact that my putterface was relatively square at, going into and coming out of the strike was the reason the cpu couldn't decide head shape. Kolton reasoned that a face balanced putter would simply change a right miss into a left miss, which is what I saw in the 2 previous weeks of tinkering with a mallet. I also want to mention that Kolton seemed at ease answering my questions with data, and not jargon. In the end, he actually suggested the cheapest putter out of the bunch, and dissuaded me from ponying up an additional $200 for the scotty cameron.I felt no pressure to buy(although I was there to purchase) and noticed no brand affinity from my fitter. He really seemed focused on getting me the best fitting putter for my game. I enjoyed my fitting, and would definitely recommend a putter fitting to anyone, as long as their fitter of choice has a system in place that can quantify/measure your performance. And the fact that they were willing to email all that data just proved to me that they want to help golfers get better. All in all, it was $250 for my new putter, and $100 for the fitting, well worth it to me. I'll be going back for an aftermarket shaft for my driver next..

 

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Thank you for detailing your experience in the putter fitting. I have been thinking about doing a putter and/or wedge fitting at my local club champion when everything settles down and it is reassuring that you had a positive experience. Best of luck with your new Putter! 

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Driver: :titelist-small: TSi4 8* w/ Tensei AV Raw White 65gr X shaft set to D-1 Hosel
3 wood: :taylormade-small: M1 13.5* Head set open w/ Fade bias weights. 
Irons: :ping-small: I-Blades PW-3i, 2* up standard length.
Wedges: :ping-small:Glide 1.0 TS 60*, :ping-small: Glide 2.0 56 ES, :titelist-small:Vokey 52* 
Putter: :ping-small: Sigma G Kushin .
Ball: Various: Testing: :titelist-small: AVX, :bridgestone-small: BX, :taylormade-small: TP5x 
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On 5/19/2020 at 9:14 AM, cnosil said:

what was you expectation from the fitting and what additional information did you want that you didn’t get? Did you ask questions? Sometimes you already have the right equipment and it just needs a lift/lie tweak

A bit late in replying on this - but I see the OP had some more information regarding grip and overall consistency of stroke is laid out in an easier to read format with a bit more data than I was provided.  It was determined that my putter is fairly well fit to my stroke, but wanted to try a mallet style for alignment sake and similar toe hang to see if it would improve anything or possibly something with different weight.  Probably my fault in the end for not speaking up more, but I thought there would be a bit more time.  It seemed like it was over before it really began.

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Driver:  image.png.3c6db1120d888f669e07d4a8f890b3f1.pngMavrik Sub Zero 9* (Set to 10) Ventus Blue 6X

2 Hybrid: :titelist-small: TSI3 Hybrid Tensei Blue 80 X

4 Iron - Srixon ZX 23* Recoil F5                                                     Testing: :titelist-small: T200 4 Iron Graphite Design Tour AD IZ X Hybrid Shaft

Irons 5-PW: :mizuno-small: MP 18 SC Dynamic Gold AMT X                   Testing: :titelist-small: T100-S 5 - GW KBS Tour 130 X

Gap/Sand Wedge:  :titelist-small: Vokey SM6 49*  SM8 54* 

Lob Wedge:  image.png.3c6db1120d888f669e07d4a8f890b3f1.pngJaws 5 Wedge 58* DG Tour Issue Stiff

Putter:   :scotty-small: Phantom 5.5 34"      Pro Platinum Newport 2 35"      Taylormade Tour Black Spider 34"

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  • 4 weeks later...

I think my fitter and I play similarly, and have similar ball speed and shape: it was like we were speaking the same language. I had no issues going right back and doing a driver fitting with him since I felt like he understood my swing limitations. He picked 5 putters, and coincidentally, they were the 5 I wanted to try, so I didn’t have to ask to try something else. I think fittings are best when the fitter and the golfer really mesh well.


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I did a putter fitting in Jan 2019 and just a few weeks ago, both with CC. My stroke had changed just enough that I was kicked out of a double bend shafted mallet (Evnroll Er6B) to an extended slant neck mid mallet with some toe hang (Ping Arna Vault). My lie went upright 1* and loft decreased 1*. I thought it was worth the money to get fitted and you get plenty of data points to either bend your current flatstick or change to something more appropriate. It also makes me aware of my stroke in case I start to see the ball coming off the face a little off. I used to be skeptical of putter fittings, but if they have the SAM, then it's well worth it. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I love reading all this. I need to get a putter fitting. I can’t putt worth anything right now.


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Driver: SIM2 10.5 turned down to 9.5 with Ventus Blue 6X Velocore

3WD: MAVRIK SZ

5WD: MAVRIK SZ

3i: Titleist U500 w/ Tour AD 95X

5-PW: Mizuno MP20 MMC w/ C-Tape Lite X 115

52: Mizuno T20 Chrome

56 & 60: Cleveland ZipCore Tour Raw

Putter: Scotty Cameron Studio Style Newport 2 (34"/4/71)

Ball: THE Titleist Pro V1x

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On 5/19/2020 at 9:14 AM, cnosil said:

Looking forward to hearing how the information was explained and why the recommendation was made.

Second that ^^

Edit:

Ah ah! Posted the line above before I'd read further and saw the follow-up descriptive posts - great info in there, thx!

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WITB of an "aspiring"  😉 play-ah ...
..Callaway Epic Speed 4W and Epic Max 7W (both Project X Cypher)
..Callaway Big Bertha 4H and 5H (both Recoil ZTR)
..PXG 0211 6i-GW (Mitsubishi MMT) 
..Cleveland CBX-2 54 and CBX 60 (both Rotex graphite)
...Edel EAS 4.0 (stock shaft, zero offset hosel, round grip)
..all in a Datrek bag on an MGI Zip Navigator electric cart.

Forum Member tester for the ExPutt Putting Simulator (2020)

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