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Arccos Approach Handicap?


Guess my approach handicap  

3 members have voted

  1. 1. On the nine holes I described, my approach play was roughly that of a ___ handicap player.

    • 0-3
      0
    • 4-6
      0
    • 7-9
      0
    • 10-12
      0
    • 13-15
      0
    • 15-18
      2
    • 19-21
      1
    • 22-24
      0
    • more than 24
      0


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I've been a longtime Game Golf user, switching to Arccos for the first time this season. I've got fewer than 10 rounds (almost all 9-hole) on Arccos so far. Really liking a lot about the system.

My biggest question so far is the difference between GG and Arccos in calculating approach handicap. In GG, my approach number was normally one of my stronger categories, typically playing between the levels of a 5-10 handicap. But so far on Arccos, my approach handicap is sitting at 24.5.

To be sure: it's early in the season. But that still seems somewhat high to me, and I'm trying to figure out why.

So I want to propose a test: here are the approach shots I hit during my last 9-hole round. I want you guys to guess what handicap Arccos assigned to my performance. First, the overall numbers:

image.png

Here are the individual shots:

  • Hole 10: From about 155, in the rough: missed just right of the green, pin high, about 30' from the hole
  • Hole 11: From about 130, in the fairway: hit the green, about 8' from the hole
  • Hole 12: From about 110, in the rough: chunked, finished short left of the green, in the rough, about 36' from the hole
  • Hole 13: From about 140, out of position in the rough: punched a shot to the rough, about 60' from the hole
  • Hole 14: From about 160, in the fairway: ball trailed just right into a greenside bunker, about 35' from the hole
  • Hole 15: From about 130, on the tee: ball was pin high, on the left fringe, about 35' from the hole
  • Hole 16: From about 110, in the fairway: hit the green, about 25' past the hole
  • Hole 17: From about 50, in the fairway: hit the green, about 15' from the hole
  • Hole 18: From about 120, in the fairway: hit the green, about 20' from the hole

I shot a 3-over 39 for the nine holes.

OK, stat nerds: what handicap rating would you assign to that performance?

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I voted 15-18 because your numbers were similar to my last 9 hole round but I had a little less average distance to the pin and they had me at 20.3.

 

Hopefully early season rust there.

 

 

 

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Just now, B.Boston said:

I voted 15-18 because your numbers were similar to my last 9 hole round but I had a little less average distance to the pin.l and they had me at 20.3.


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Adjustments.jpg

Cheater! 🙂 (Though I'm not saying whether you got the answer right or not.)

In hindsight, the question is a little ambiguous. I guess I did ask what Arccos assigned. My bigger question (and I'll ask about your round): do you believe that that's a 20+ handicap approach performance? A 2016 article from MGS includes this graph:

grint-overall-perf-3

Hitting a third of greens in regulation already puts a golfer in single-digit territory. A 20-handicap rating there seems oddly high, and I'm trying to figure out how Arccos is calculating that.

:titleist-small: TS3 9.5°, Tensei Blue
:755178188_TourEdge: CBX T3 15°, Project X HZRDUS Black
:callaway-small: Epic Super Hybrid 18°, Aerotech Steel Fiber FC HYB S
:755178188_TourEdge: C722 21°, Ventus Blue 8S
:touredgeexotics: CBX Iron-Wood 25°, Project X HZRDUS Black 6.0
:Sub70: 639 CB, Aldila NV 95 Graphite, 6–PW
:cleveland-small: CBX 48°
:mizuno-small: T22 54° and 60°
:edel-golf-1: EAS 4.0, Garsen G-Pro grip
:taylormade-small: TP5x and Tour Response

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3 minutes ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

Cheater! 🙂 (Though I'm not saying whether you got the answer right or not.)

In hindsight, the question is a little ambiguous. I guess I did ask what Arccos assigned. My bigger question (and I'll ask about your round): do you believe that that's a 20+ handicap approach performance? A 2016 article from MGS includes this graph:

grint-overall-perf-3

Hitting a third of greens in regulation already puts a golfer in single-digit territory. A 20-handicap rating there seems oddly high, and I'm trying to figure out how Arccos is calculating that.

Thanks for passing along that article from 2016 - the year before I joined MGS. Interesting and the reason why I'm on the SuperSpeed 'project'  - hitting more greens. 

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24 minutes ago, GolfSpy MPR said:
Cheater!  (Though I'm not saying whether you got the answer right or not.) In hindsight, the question is a little ambiguous. I guess I did ask what Arccos assigned. My bigger question (and I'll ask about your round): do you believe that that's a 20+ handicap approach performance? A 2016 article from MGS includes this graph: grint-overall-perf-3.gif

Hitting a third of greens in regulation already puts a golfer in single-digit territory. A 20-handicap rating there seems oddly high, and I'm trying to figure out how Arccos is calculating that.

 

 

So my calculated handicap is 8.6 and I would certainly say that my approach shots left a lot to be desired. Of the two that were long one was a good shot wrong club scenario, the other was pulled on a downhill, downwind approach. One that was short was a wrong club/ wrong speed issue I can chalk up to being one of the first few holes of the year, the other was one a caught heavy and lost a good 10-12 yards on. I stuck one of my longer approach shots of the day from 162 to about 12 feet on a par 3.  

Long winded there, but I think it may have been a little too high of rating, but it also gave me a super low driver rating, and I don’t feel like I drove the ball anywhere near that well.

 

I’ve got 18 on the books tomorrow so I’ll be working on getting that down, but the chipping/sand one really bugged me. I couldn’t hit anything hard enough on the soft greens to get close to the hole.

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I've wondered about some of these things, too, as there have been times I felt like the relative performance of a particular facet was better than the calculation. This thread prompted me to check the Arccos help/FAQ's. These particular links seemed helpful to me, but don't really solve my conundrum, but I guess I have to just trust the math:

https://support.arccosgolf.com/hc/en-us/articles/360037682932-How-do-I-understand-Strokes-Gained-Approach-

https://support.arccosgolf.com/hc/en-us/articles/360038050251-How-does-Arccos-calculate-player-handicaps-

 

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Disclaimer: I have no proof of this, but it is my understanding of how it works. 

One of the few faults of Arccos is that it truly separates each shot from the previous, well that's good you say?. It sounds good in theory but what happens in reality is a little different.

If you hit a drive behind a tree with no shot to the green the true SG should apply the recovery stroke to the tee shot, Arccos does not. It will apply straight SG to your approach shot. So your approach on 13 is probably penalized more than should be. 

The best way to look over a round is by looking and the color codes on the dashboard. It is a real simple yet effective presentation. 

 

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Here is an example. Drive is in jail and had to punch out. Looking at dashboard the drive is green (good) and the recovery is grey (not good). Pay no attention to shots after that. 🤣17.thumb.JPG.5832a12512416b3780093b4cd0e07084.JPG18.JPG.aa6d3a4c244a5b17fd29e1b5442c3bc6.JPG

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4 minutes ago, THEZIPR23 said:

If you hit a drive behind a tree with no shot to the green the true SG should apply the recovery stroke to the tee shot, Arccos does not.

That explains a lot. It suggests my approach game is being penalized because I am really crappy driver of the ball.

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6 minutes ago, THEZIPR23 said:

Disclaimer: I have no proof of this, but it is my understanding of how it works. 

One of the few faults of Arccos is that it truly separates each shot from the previous, well that's good you say?. It sounds good in theory but what happens in reality is a little different.

If you hit a drive behind a tree with no shot to the green the true SG should apply the recovery stroke to the tee shot, Arccos does not. It will apply straight SG to your approach shot. So your approach on 13 is probably penalized more than should be. 

The best way to look over a round is by looking and the color codes on the dashboard. It is a real simple yet effective presentation. 

 

No, that I definitely get. On hole 13, I hit a weak fade off the tee that ended up rolling through a bunker that lines the edge of the fairway, so that the ball was perched on a hill under some branches. I get that Arccos is going to penalize the ensuing approach shot, when the drive was really the issue.

My concern is that I've spent a good amount of time on SkyTrak and following Lou Stagner's stats on Twitter. Between these, I feel I've got a pretty decent grasp of proper expectations for how close a shot should be to the hole from various distances, and based on those, it seems that Arccos is really harsh on approach handicaps.

Has anyone had the opposite experience: an approach number that is better than you would expect?

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2 minutes ago, GolfSpy MPR said:

No, that I definitely get. On hole 13, I hit a weak fade off the tee that ended up rolling through a bunker that lines the edge of the fairway, so that the ball was perched on a hill under some branches. I get that Arccos is going to penalize the ensuing approach shot, when the drive was really the issue.

My concern is that I've spent a good amount of time on SkyTrak and following Lou Stagner's stats on Twitter. Between these, I feel I've got a pretty decent grasp of proper expectations for how close a shot should be to the hole from various distances, and based on those, it seems that Arccos is really harsh on approach handicaps.

Has anyone had the opposite experience: an approach number that is better than you would expect?

I don't think I ever have. It may be the way they calculate it or it may be the fluctuation of SG. If I go back and look at my SG in decade for that same round, the handicaps look ok, but that individual hole is definitely wrong. (decade stats are against tour.)

So the question I have is what handicap applies to what SG? I think this is different in each program. p.thumb.JPG.b2061e66ead67f99b43f86932a8754ba.JPGp2.JPG.16603358de5173766cb4e95ef1596f30.JPGp3.JPG.d8c4e7f56bb78da26bf0b64ad69167aa.JPG

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Yeah, arccos approach stats are always higher than what I shoot for the day, and putting is always lower even though I'm not a great putter.

This was the first time I broke 80, and I had 2 3-putts?

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Sounds like we need to get Arccos on here so they can get our feedback 🙂

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