11iron Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 Tony Covey stated very emphatically on this week's No Putts Given that matte balls lose more spin / launch higher than non-matte balls when wet. see 37:54 of https://mygolfspy.com/warning-are-you-playing-this-golf-ball-noputtsgiven-38/ Is there any data anywhere to support this? I have seen data that all balls lose spin and launch higher when wet. But specifically matte more so than non-matte? Opinions and personal observation are great, but actual data would be beneficial to prove or disprove this. I have no reason to believe or disbelieve this, but have not seen anything anywhere on this, and would obviously inform future purchases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
03trdblack Posted May 24, 2020 Share Posted May 24, 2020 Check out the ball test from last year on the blog. They mention it during their testing notes. https://mygolfspy.com/most-wanted-golf-ball/ Quote My bag is a revolving door! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11iron Posted May 25, 2020 Author Share Posted May 25, 2020 (edited) Thanks, 03. That's probably one of the places I saw data on wet shots, good info for sure. Also the T X G guys did some testing. But no data on the difference of matte vs gloss, just wet vs dry. I am interested because I've always liked the Maxfli urethane balls, and they now have a matte white version. If there is any actual quantifiable difference, it may be minimized or eliminated with a urethane cover, and with white (there is data to suggest colored dye also changes performance characteristics). So, if someone has a launch monitor, a repeatable swing, some Maxfli Tour (or Tour X) in both gloss and matte white (or any other brand that make both a gloss white and matte white version of the same urethane ball), a spray bottle, and the time to do some statistically significant testing with say a 9-iron, that would be super dope! Edited May 25, 2020 by 11iron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Middler Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 39 minutes ago, 11iron said: Thanks, 03. That's probably one of the places I saw data on wet shots, good info for sure. Also the T X G guys did some testing. But no data on the difference of matte vs gloss, just wet vs dry. I am interested because I've always liked the Maxfli urethane balls, and they now have a matte white version. If there is any actual quantifiable difference, it may be minimized or eliminated with a urethane cover, and with white (there is data to suggest colored dye also changes performance characteristics). So, if someone has a launch monitor, a repeatable swing, some Maxfli Tour (or Tour X) in both gloss and matte white (or any other brand that make both a gloss white and matte white version of the same urethane ball), a spray bottle, and the time to do some statistically significant testing with say a 9-iron, that would be super dope! I believe the testing MGS did in 2019, and based on the NPG episode they're seeing it again in 2020. They used a robot, why would someone with a launch monitor and a repeatable swing be better? Quote Titleist TSR2 11° HZRDUS Red CB 50 6.0 w Lamkin UTx Midsize Titleist TSR2 16.5º HZRDUS Red 60 CB 6.0 & TSR2 21º HZRDUS Black 4G 70 6.0 w Lamkin UTx Midsize Mizuno JPX923 HMP 4-GW, T22 54.12WS, T22 58.04DC w Lamkin ST+2 Hybrid Midsize Evnroll EV5.3 Maxfli Tour & ProV1 Ping Pioneer - MGI Zip Navigator AT Payntr X 002 LE, Ecco Biom C4, Payntr X 001 F (Mesh) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11iron Posted May 25, 2020 Author Share Posted May 25, 2020 (edited) Looking for data, Middler. MGS didn't provide any wet matte vs. dry matte data in comparison to wet gloss vs dry gloss. Agreed data via a robot swing would be super. Edited May 25, 2020 by 11iron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 55 minutes ago, 11iron said: Looking for data, Middler. MGS didn't provide any wet matte vs. dry matte data in comparison to wet gloss vs dry gloss. Agreed data via a robot swing would be super. No, they did not provide specific numbers but they provided wet vs dry numbers and then said that matte finish balls were more significantly impacted. From this article (https://mygolfspy.com/most-wanted-golf-ball/) : DID YOU KNOW: A golf ball will perform differently if it is wet vs. when it’s dry. Golfers need to know how much difference there is and why it matters. WET WEDGE SHOTS: Carry increased by approximately 2.5 yards Spin decreased by approximately 2500 RPM Launch angle increased by over 5° Peak height increased by 5 yards Also, cheaper (2-piece) balls and matte finish balls are affected more significantly by moisture. Also, the clubs used would have an impact on specific numbers HeathS16 1 Quote Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: Sacks Parente MC 3 Stripe Backup Putters: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W, TM-180 Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11iron Posted May 25, 2020 Author Share Posted May 25, 2020 (edited) Yep, that's the article, csnosil. No data provided. Has anyone seen/generated data anywhere to support the matte assertion? Edited May 25, 2020 by 11iron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 3 minutes ago, 11iron said: Yep, that's the article, csnosil. No data provided. Has anyone seen/generated data anywhere to support the matte assertion? That is all that has been published. Quote Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: Sacks Parente MC 3 Stripe Backup Putters: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W, TM-180 Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11iron Posted May 25, 2020 Author Share Posted May 25, 2020 Yep, that seems to be all that MGS has published. Hoping if this is really a thing, someone has seen data somewhere...or maybe even has done some measuring on their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmishJason Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 6 hours ago, 11iron said: Yep, that seems to be all that MGS has published. Hoping if this is really a thing, someone has seen data somewhere...or maybe even has done some measuring on their own. I'm guessing when the ball lab testing wraps up, there will be some kind of data published. From the sound of the podcast any data that exists outside of MGS testing isn't available to the public. Quote Driver: Cobra Speedzone 10.5 Mitsubishi AV Blue S flex Wood: Cobra Bio Cell 3-4 Grafalloy Pro Launch Blue (low launch original version) S flex Hybrids: Taylormade GAPR 3 KBS graphite shaft Strata 4 and 5 hybrids R flex Irons: Strata 6-PW R flex Wedges: Texan Classics 52, 56, 60 R flex Putter: Odyssey Red Ball mallet Ball: Srixon Q Star Tour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fozcycle Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 Thanks, 03. That's probably one of the places I saw data on wet shots, good info for sure. Also the T X G guys did some testing. But no data on the difference of matte vs gloss, just wet vs dry. I am interested because I've always liked the Maxfli urethane balls, and they now have a matte white version. If there is any actual quantifiable difference, it may be minimized or eliminated with a urethane cover, and with white (there is data to suggest colored dye also changes performance characteristics). So, if someone has a launch monitor, a repeatable swing, some Maxfli Tour (or Tour X) in both gloss and matte white (or any other brand that make both a gloss white and matte white version of the same urethane ball), a spray bottle, and the time to do some statistically significant testing with say a 9-iron, that would be super dope! Good question 11iron, I also play the Maxfli Tour balls. Some of them are Matte finish so I bought several dozen and included the matte finish. To my game, I cannot discern any difference, just that you cannot clean the mattes once they have been played.Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpyCobra King F8(10.5*) w/ Mitdubishi Tense ck Blue Regular; 3W & 5W Cobra King F8 w/ Mitsubishi Tense ck Blue Regular shafts; Tour Edge CBX119 22* Hybrid w/Project X Evenflo Regular shaft; Wilson Staff D-7 5-PW w/UST Mamiya Recoil 460 Regular graphite shafts; Cobra King F8 Gw(50*)SW(54*)LW(58*)all w/UST Mamiya Recoil 460 ES regular shafts.Putter: Tommy Armour Impact No. 3; Bag: Cobra Ultralight Cart bag, Peaccoat Blue. Nolan220 1 Quote Driver: 0311 XF 10.5* w/Project X Cypher 40 gram Senior shaft or 0811 XF 12* w/Evenflo Riptide CB Senior shaft Fairways: 0211 5W & 7W w/ Evenflo Riptide CB regular shaft and Tour Edge E521 9W w/Fubuki HD50 regular shaft Hybrid: None in bag at the moment Irons: Titleist T300 5-PW w/Fubuki MV Senior graphite shafts w/Golf Pride Tour Wedges: Edison forged 49*, 53* and 57* wedges with KB PGI Senior shafts(80 grm). Putter: 33” Evnroll ER6R or ER2 or Bellum Winmore Model 707, or Nike Method Core Drone w/Evnroll Gravity Grip Bag: Vice cart bag(Black/Lime). Ball: Snell MTB Prime X, Maxfli Tour/S/X CG, Titleist Pro V1x or Titleist TruFeel Using Shot Scope X5 and Pinned Rangefinder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedgie Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 I will test the wet matte ball theory tonight on SkyTrak. I have Wilson Professions in both glossy and matte in stock at home. Not Maxfli but at least will give everyone an idea of any differences between glossy and matte. Any suggestions for testing? I plan to just hit them dry then soak them in water and repeat. I'm not going thru the entire bag but will hit full wedges. JohnSmalls, MaxEntropy and Nolan220 3 Quote Wedgie Driver - XXIO X Driver 9.5 - Launcher Turbo 2 hybrid - F9 One Length 3-L - ER 1.2 Top Flite Gamer Play Right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolan220 Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 55 minutes ago, Wedgie said: I will test the wet matte ball theory tonight on SkyTrak. I have Wilson Professions in both glossy and matte in stock at home. Not Maxfli but at least will give everyone an idea of any differences between glossy and matte. Any suggestions for testing? I plan to just hit them dry then soak them in water and repeat. I'm not going thru the entire bag but will hit full wedges. Keep us updated, interested in what you find out. Quote Speedzone Driver Tensei AV Blue or G400 SFT 10. KBS TD 50 Category 3 shaft King Speedzone Black Yellow Fairway 3 wood Tensei AV Blue 65 F9 SpeedBack Black Grey Fairway 5 Wood ATMOS Tour Spec Blue 7 shaft T300 4i-GW - Tensei AV Blue AM2 Regular Flex or JPX 900 Hot Metal 5 - GW Project X Lz 4.5 Regular Flex Graphite Glide 2.0 SS Wedges 54 & 58 TP Red White Ardmore Putter - BGT Stability Tour Black shaft Precision Pro NX7 range finder Ultralight Cart Bag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedgie Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 Here is what I will do: 1. Dry ball glossy 2. Wet ball glossy 3. Wet ball and wet wedge glossy 4. Dry matte ball 5. Wet matte ball 6. Wet ball and wet wedge matte Let me know if more needs to be done? MaxEntropy and Rtracymog 2 Quote Wedgie Driver - XXIO X Driver 9.5 - Launcher Turbo 2 hybrid - F9 One Length 3-L - ER 1.2 Top Flite Gamer Play Right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11iron Posted May 26, 2020 Author Share Posted May 26, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Wedgie said: >> Here is what I will do: >> Here is what I will do: Awesome, Wedgie! >> Let me know if more needs to be done? You mentioned soaking in water - the testing I've seen (MSG photo and T X G videos) uses a spray bottle. The only other input I would make is to make enough swings to make it statistically significant - it's been a while since my Statistics classes, so won't even try to bust out any formulae - as a wag at least a dozen of each? If that's too many swings for you, could maybe combine 2 with 3, and 5 with 6, and make your best guess re. moisture amount on a dewy morning - maybe a single spray on both ball and club? Definitely don't have to go through full bag - probably one club is enough, even preferable to get more similar swings (sample size) - full swing 9-iron as midway between long irons and short wedges? Cool, will be informative as to matte ball performance. Edited May 26, 2020 by 11iron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedgie Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 21 minutes ago, 11iron said: >> Here is what I will do: Awesome, Wedgie! >> Let me know if more needs to be done? You mentioned soaking in water - the testing I've seen (MSG photo and T X G videos) uses a spray bottle. The only other input I would make is to make enough swings to make it statistically significant - it's been a while since my Statistics classes, so won't even try to bust out any formulae - as a wag at least a dozen of each? If that's too many swings for you, could maybe combine 2 with 3, and 5 with 6, and make your best guess re. moisture amount on a dewy morning - maybe a single spray on both ball and club? Definitely don't have to go through full bag - probably one club is enough, even preferable to get more similar swings (sample size) - full swing 9-iron as midway between long irons and short wedges? Cool, will be informative as to matte ball performance. Okay, I will dig up a spray bottle and spray the balls and do a dozen good shots with each and see what I get. AmishJason 1 Quote Wedgie Driver - XXIO X Driver 9.5 - Launcher Turbo 2 hybrid - F9 One Length 3-L - ER 1.2 Top Flite Gamer Play Right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedgie Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 Alright I’m going in. Will report back in the next couple of hours.Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy Rtracymog, MaxEntropy and JohnSmalls 3 Quote Wedgie Driver - XXIO X Driver 9.5 - Launcher Turbo 2 hybrid - F9 One Length 3-L - ER 1.2 Top Flite Gamer Play Right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11iron Posted May 26, 2020 Author Share Posted May 26, 2020 (edited) Edited May 26, 2020 by 11iron Wedgie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedgie Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 Tested the Wilson Duo Professional glossy vs. Wilson Duo Professional matte finish in dry and wet comparison. I hit 12 shots with each scenario using my 9 iron. In the wet conditions I sprayed the ball before each shot with the sprayer then dried after each shot. For wet with club I sprayed the ball and club face then dried both after each shot. I was pretty dialed in and only had to kick out 2 shots and they were 2 of my last 4. Garage golf is more fun when it’s 40 degrees outside than when it is upper 70s so I was pooping out. Comparing balls on SkyTrak can be difficult so you need to understand the key to each club but remember I only hit the 9 iron: 4 iron = matte ball wet ball and wet club face5 iron = matte ball wet ball only6 iron = matte ball dry7 iron = glossy ball wet ball wet club face8 iron = glossy ball wet ball only9 iron = glossy ball dry It is also important to note that SkyTrak only measures ball speed, launch, back spin and left/right spin. Everything else is a calculation. Without diving into the data too much at first brush over the matte ball seems more consistent in wet and dry conditions. If it is completely dry then I’d say the glossy finish is the way to go. I’m sure MGS will provide much more in depth info but here is a preview. Any questions let me know? Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy MaxEntropy, Rtracymog and JohnSmalls 3 Quote Wedgie Driver - XXIO X Driver 9.5 - Launcher Turbo 2 hybrid - F9 One Length 3-L - ER 1.2 Top Flite Gamer Play Right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11iron Posted May 27, 2020 Author Share Posted May 27, 2020 Wow Wedgie you are the man, great test, thanks! My three takeaways: - In dry conditions, the matte ball spins >800rpm less and launches ~2 degrees higher than the gloss ball. This makes the two balls, even though they're both Wilson Duo Professionals, designed and manufactured the same except for the paint coat, in effect two different balls. One isn't better than the other, depends on what your game needs. So lets me know the Maxfli Tour (and Tour X, and other balls with both a glossy and matte version) probably differs between its matte and glossy versions as well. Doesn't affect the validity of wet vs. dry comparison at all, since %s can be used. - Your data confirms what MGS and T X G data has previously shown -- in wet conditions, launch increases, spin decreases, distance increases, and apex increases. - In wet conditions, the matte cover does exactly the opposite of what Tony Covey stated - the matte cover is less affected by moisture, much less in fact. Launch (direct SkyTrak measurement) increases 6% (wet ball) and 7% (wet club and ball) for matte, but 14% (both conditions) for glossy (again, %s used since the baselines are different; this is the only way to measure relative effect). Backspin (the other direct SkyTrak measurement) is even more disparate - matte -22%/-23% vs. glossy -28%/-39%. So, according to the data, matte urethane balls are much more consistent in wet conditions, and affected by moisture less significantly than glossy. Is this the be-all end-all test - no. But very valuable, thank you Wedgie - and (re)confirms that data is king, and unsupported claims should be questioned and tested. Of course, now I have to buy some glossy Maxfli Tours and Tour Xs to compare on course with my mattes... JohnSmalls, MaxEntropy and Wedgie 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedgie Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 I’m really glad I did this test so thanks for the topic and idea. I will now plan accordingly based on conditions.Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy JohnSmalls and MaxEntropy 2 Quote Wedgie Driver - XXIO X Driver 9.5 - Launcher Turbo 2 hybrid - F9 One Length 3-L - ER 1.2 Top Flite Gamer Play Right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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