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Would you use a NON-Conforming Golf Equipment if it gave you a competitive advantage?

Would you use NON-Conforming equipment if it gave you a competitive advantage?  

100 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you use a NON-Conforming Golf Ball if it out preformed a tour ball?

    • Yes
      16
    • No
      84
  2. 2. Would you use a NON-Conforming Golf Club if it gave you more distance and better accuracy?

    • Yes
      19
    • No
      81
  3. 3. Would you use a NON-Conforming Golf club that has grooves on it that have you more spin out of the rough?

    • Yes
      20
    • No
      80
  4. 4. Would you use a NON-Conforming putter that helps you make more putts?

    • Yes
      19
    • No
      81


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1 hour ago, Middler said:

I’m done with this thread so FWIW

  • Your poll says “WOULD YOU USE NON-CONFORMING EQUIPMENT IF IT GAVE YOU A COMPETITIVE ADVANTAGE?  That’s cheating plain and simple.
  • Now you’re saying “It would be allowed if there was no restriction on equipment for everyone playing. Cheating would only be if it was against the rules and someone used it anyway.”

It’s not a “competitive advantage” if “everyone” has non-conforming equipment...

It’s been way more common to hear discussions suggesting the USGA has allowed the industry to “push the envelope” too much in the past few decades (chart below). Few are arguing otherwise, except some who support bifurcation.

There’s no lack of innovation whatsoever. Ball and clubmakers know how to give us way more distance, only the USGA stops them from going crazy with innovation. You can already buy non-conforming balls and clubs, all OEMs know how. And the big name OEMs are in business to make a profit, they would make non-conforming equipment if there was a significant market. There’s not. So far it appears no one except you (8 to 1) would like to see non-conforming equipment allowed.

They may exist, but I’ve never heard of a league that formally allows non-conforming equipment.

 

 

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I agree with you! Why start a topic, then talk out of both sides of your mouth?

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I stand by my take that the USGA and RA are cheating all golfers by putting limitations on golf equipment that are making all golf equipment homogenized. 

The origin spirit of golf was equipment made by the golfers themselves, a local craftsman, or on a very small scale. The goal of golf was, and is, to strike a ball with a club in order to get it in a hole in as few strokes as possible. 

I am all for ignoring the USGA and maintaining my integrity because it is me against the course.

If I was ever to compete, in skins or events, then I would submit to the rules of competition (not in my foreseeable future though).

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12 hours ago, TimoTe said:

I am all for ignoring the USGA and maintaining my integrity because it is me against the course.

Now we’re conveniently redefining integrity too. 😁 🤣 😂

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If the PGA rolls back the ball, I will continue to use current balls that are out. If for some reason they reversed technology and said that graphite shaft, steel shafts, etc. are illegal, I would continue to play them. I’m not a Pro. I would choose to personally bifurcate!


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the phrase "competitive advantage" means to me you are competing against players who are using conforming equipment.  the question becomes "Will you cheat"? my answer is no.  do what you want on your own, but if you're competing, play by the rules.

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More and more it sounds like the purpose of this thread is not to "push the envelope" but to validate and push for "the easy way out".  I think we golfers tend to blame everything but ourselves for not being successful in this game whether it be the clubs, wind, balls, etc.  I have a golf buddy that complains about his clubs and he says he needs new clubs.  I often tell him it's not the clubs, especially when the majority of his shots are slices as well as thin and fat shots on his approach and chip shots.

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12 hours ago, TimoTe said:

I am all for ignoring the USGA and maintaining my integrity because it is me against the course.

choosing to ignore rules that apply to all honest golfers isn't exactly "integrity", at least in my book.  i read the same excuses from those who choose not to follow the handicap rules, and they dont fly there either.

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:callaway-small: Rogue SubZero, GD YS-Six X

:vokey-small: 52, 56, and 60 wedges

:ping-small: B60 G5i putter

Right handed

Reston, Virginia

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1 hour ago, DaveP043 said:

the phrase "competitive advantage" means to me you are competing against players who are using conforming equipment.  the question becomes "Will you cheat"? my answer is no.  do what you want on your own, but if you're competing, play by the rules.

100% agree. I was going to say the same thing. If they are just playing for themselves and not in any competition. Or if just playing with friends and they are all doing the same thing then go for it. But once you try to compete with others who are using the correct equipment it becomes cheating and that's just not right. 

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Answered no to all.  Golf made easy... really, what's the point? 😉

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15 hours ago, Middler said:

I’m done with this thread so FWIW

  • Your poll says “WOULD YOU USE NON-CONFORMING EQUIPMENT IF IT GAVE YOU A COMPETITIVE ADVANTAGE?  That’s cheating plain and simple.
  • Now you’re saying “It would be allowed if there was no restriction on equipment for everyone playing. Cheating would only be if it was against the rules and someone used it anyway.”

It’s not a “competitive advantage” if “everyone” has non-conforming equipment...

It’s been way more common to hear discussions suggesting the USGA has allowed the industry to “push the envelope” too much in the past few decades (chart below). Few are arguing otherwise, except some who support bifurcation.

There’s no lack of innovation whatsoever. Ball and clubmakers know how to give us way more distance, only the USGA stops them from going crazy with innovation. You can already buy non-conforming balls and clubs, all OEMs know how. And the big name OEMs are in business to make a profit, they would make non-conforming equipment if there was a significant market. There’s not. So far it appears no one except you (15 to 1) would like to see non-conforming equipment allowed.

They may exist, but I’ve never heard of a league that formally allows non-conforming equipment.

 

 

879F9E55-A50C-42B8-AA54-543C333FA997.jpeg

Well my friend you have not been around any of the big money games in Charlotte or Vegas. There anything goes as long as it is agreed on before hand. Some rules like 14 clubs is a normal disregard I seen guys with 30 clubs in a staff bag. If it was agreed on before hand Bandit balls were ok. And of course chap stick or vaselene on the club face is the norm.

Now I voted no on all of the above and do not want to be hypocritical . Technically if you look at my signature list my irons are non conforming and so is my wedge. Now I will concede part of that is the fact that they have not been submitted and tested.My irons are 80s remakes but made off of the original 70 dies. That was long before Ping ever thought of all the funky grooves. My Cleveland wedges do not have the Zip grooves even though they are old in fact they are older than any zip grooved wedges. I have contended before and to the USGA that they were legal on the date of manufacture. I do not play comps and big money matches any more so I play what I want to. For me I could give 2 hoots less what someone else plays. Hey they might out drive me with a illegal ball and driver but can they beat me. None of the groups I play in give 2 hoots what someone else plays either. But FTR IF and I say IF I play comp again or attempt a qualifier I have assembled a conforming set of MP68s and a Cally 56* PM wedge in my old Titleist staff bag. Just throw in my driver fairway and hybrid. But really I do not have any problem with what someone else plays

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Another non-conforming item I see available is the Polara self correcting golf ball that does not meet the symmetry rule of the USGA. 

https://www.polaragolf.com/collections/all

It boasts being able to reduce slices by up to 75% but you have to line up the arrow at your target on each shot.

Sounds like a fun enhancer for the rec golfer to me. 

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I wonder if playing non-conforming stuff would really make people score better and I really doubt it.  The hole is the same size and the ball still has to get into it.  Getting an extra few yards on a couple of shots or more spin out of the rough isn't going to make much difference to the average golfer.  If you can't chip and putt, you aren't going to score decently.  If people want to lower their scores, two items are needed for that.  Practice, lessons and more practice...  ok that's 3 but the point still stands.  

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After reading the rules of golf in 1900, I found no reference to equipment at all. The entirety of the rules focused on playing and scoring. 

There was no club limit, no groove limitation, no ball regulation, no club Cor limitation or any reference to lie angles or club shape/design.

http://www.ruleshistory.com/usga1900.html

I remain convinced the USGA is limiting equipment for no reason that ought to be recognized by anyone other than the elite PGA players, if that. 

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7 hours ago, BIG STU said:

And of course chap stick or vaselene on the club face is the norm.

I noticed one of the guys in Yuma this past winter doing this to his driver.  I was going to ask him about it but didn't.  I'd never heard of or seen anyone do this before... in my 50+ years playing this game.  As is the case most of the time, we need not look beyond the walls of MGS to find the "truth". 🙂

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I think I would get some non conforming stuff simply for fun but not for leagues


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most of the non conforming stuff is garbage. I've tried the polara balls for fun. They fly straight but you get 70% of the distance, no thanks.

if you are going to use non conforming equipment, just be a non conforming player. Put vaseline on your driver face. Tee the ball up when you are in the rough. Carry a foot wedge. Write a 5 instead of a 6. You dont need to spend big bucks on bad equipment.

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I see some potential "Hard Rock Challenge" players in the mix here 😆.

hr3.jpg.36c295e350358ce3328d2de97c221116.jpg

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:ping-small: Glide 2.0 56 Degree SW   (removed from double secret probation 😍)

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5 hours ago, scooterhd2 said:

most of the non conforming stuff is garbage. I've tried the polara balls for fun. They fly straight but you get 70% of the distance, no thanks.

if you are going to use non conforming equipment, just be a non conforming player. Put vaseline on your driver face. Tee the ball up when you are in the rough. Carry a foot wedge. Write a 5 instead of a 6. You dont need to spend big bucks on bad equipment.

That's great commentary. I started laughing genuinely. Much appreciated. 

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On 5/26/2020 at 11:25 AM, BIG STU said:

Well my friend you have not been around any of the big money games in Charlotte or Vegas. There anything goes as long as it is agreed on before hand. Some rules like 14 clubs is a normal disregard I seen guys with 30 clubs in a staff bag. If it was agreed on before hand Bandit balls were ok. And of course chap stick or vaselene on the club face is the norm.

I expected you to mention this. and I have no problem with any of it.  These guys decide not to play by the rules, they're all playing under the same conditions, nobody is doing something that the other's feel constrained not to do.  But that's not the way the title of the thread reads, the OP is looking for a "competitive advantage".

21 hours ago, TimoTe said:

After reading the rules of golf in 1900, I found no reference to equipment at all. The entirety of the rules focused on playing and scoring. 

There was no club limit, no groove limitation, no ball regulation, no club Cor limitation or any reference to lie angles or club shape/design.

http://www.ruleshistory.com/usga1900.html

I remain convinced the USGA is limiting equipment for no reason that ought to be recognized by anyone other than the elite PGA players, if that. 

So you think there shouldn't be any regulation on equipment, anything goes?  Go back to the Rules History site and review some of the things that have been regulated under the rules.  (Also note which organizations first made rulings on equipment, it wasn't the USGA).  In your opinion, should all of them be acceptable now?  Concave clubfaces?  Square grips for clubs?  No limit on the number of clubs?  Allow clubs to be adjusted during play of a round?  How about golf balls, should there be a minimum diameter, a maximum weight, any limitation on symmetry?  In my mind, there should be limits on equipment, and the only folks who have even a moderate degree of impartiality are the R&A and USGA.  I believe golf as a whole is better if the same limits apply to all players, just as the rules of play should be the same for all players.   We can certainly disagree on where the limits should be.

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... Once you start making your own rules about equipment, where does it end? 
 

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