Does compression matter?

[drb1956]

On 6/16/2021 at 8:29 PM, greggarner said:

The difference between tour balls off the driver at high swing speeds is generally pretty negligible, when comparing like models (i.e. ZStar vs ProV1 and ZStar XV vs ProV1x, Vice Pro vs ProV1 and Vice Pro Plus vs ProV1x, etc) and in general, the slower the swing speed, the less difference there is. Now, you mention Supersoft, which is an interesting wrinkle. Since many ionomer balls spin less than urethane balls (all Tour balls are urethane), high launch/low spin is a recipe for distance off the tee.

In this paradigm, I'd be really interested to see ionomer/low spin balls vs Tour-level low spin balls (TP5x, ProV1x Left Dash, etc). I don't know of many of these comparisons, but TXG did test the TaylorMade lineup (albeit at 120 mph) and found the Tour Response to be longer in the irons than either of the TP5 models. Off the tee, 120mph was too much juice, but at 85-90mph? I bet you could pickup a few yards...

Never played the TP5's, but recently tried the Tour Response, as I have never played a urethane covered ball. Played a couple of rounds with it, and on a couple holes played both TR and Supersoft, alternating each off the tee. The SS was always longer, if even only 2 yards. The TR just did not feel like I was making good contact, even though the ball was getting out there 210+. Can't say I really liked the feel of the TR, and short game off the wedges was just ok to me. Not any better than a 2 piece ball. With that being said, I will take a pass on the Tour Response...

[MNUte]

For a perspective that hasn't been discussed yet: If you're starting out or very new to the game, compression doesn't matter enough for it to be a thought in your game.  Regardless of what your swing speed is, your technique is more than likely not consistent enough that you're consistently striking the ball and certainly not enough that you're consistently compression your irons and wedges. So instead of adding one more thought to the plate, I'd rather the newbie just be focusing on a nice, smooth swing. 

So early on, it doesn't matter whether you have a harder or softer two-piece ball or even a tour ball. Instead, find a ball that is cheap enough that you're okay losing it but still feels good enough for you to not hate hitting it. 

Once you've put in the time, then yeah, find the ball that feels good to you. I like to walk the tougher courses in Salt Lake, so I tend to pick up various balls that are lost along the side and test them out. I've hit some that now feel like pebbles and some that feel like marshmallows, but both have their strengths and weaknesses. Since I prefer maximizing my distance off the tee and just having the ball check up instead of spin back, I tend to still lean towards firmer balls.

Tl;dr - Early on, compression doesn't matter. Later on, it matters for preference and feel. 

[Tsecor]

On 7/16/2021 at 10:18 PM, drb1956 said:

Never played the TP5's, but recently tried the Tour Response, as I have never played a urethane covered ball. Played a couple of rounds with it, and on a couple holes played both TR and Supersoft, alternating each off the tee. The SS was always longer, if even only 2 yards. The TR just did not feel like I was making good contact, even though the ball was getting out there 210+. Can't say I really liked the feel of the TR, and short game off the wedges was just ok to me. Not any better than a 2 piece ball. With that being said, I will take a pass on the Tour Response...

TP5 is so much better than the TR IMO.....i played both and wanted to toss the TR into the lake.....TP5 has always been really good for me....hit the longest drive of my career with a TP5.  I made the perfect swing and the ball ended up at 325....i am usually a 275 type guy, not hitting the center of the face each time, but this ONE TIME, i did everything perfect it seems, and the TP5 flew a mile and landed perfectly and rolled about 20 yards......if only i could do that a few times a round.....

[GolfSpy TCB]

27 minutes ago, Tsecor said:

ball ended up at 325

Nice!

[Tsecor]

44 minutes ago, Tiftaaft said:

Nice!

once in my life.....never did it again....it was like the golf gods cut me a break

[GolfSpy TCB]

12 minutes ago, Tsecor said:

once in my life.....never did it again....it was like the golf gods cut me a break

haha.. yes... sounds like we have similar love/hate relationships with the golf gods... they love to hate us!!  

[Gavwlee]

I’ve actually been wondering this. In my return to the game after a few years away, I’ve been looking for something to replace the B330S I used to game. Bridgestone has the BX and BXS for higher swing speeds and BRX and BRXS for slower. I haven’t seen a test online (at least from my search) of someone hitting the Tour B R series with greater than the recommended swing speed or the Non-R series at lower the recommended swing speed. In my non-scientific tests, I didn’t see a difference but again, this was testing as a 1 man scramble across 5 rounds. Landed on the XS as it reminded me of the Titleist Tour Professional days, with its “heavier” feel off the putter and “stickiness” off the irons and wedges. 

On the range I’m at about 112 with my driver, but on course, I’m sure i vary from 100 to 115.

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, Gavwlee said:

I’ve actually been wondering this. In my return to the game after a few years away, I’ve been looking for something to replace the B330S I used to game. Bridgestone has the BX and BXS for higher swing speeds and BRX and BRXS for slower. I haven’t seen a test online (at least from my search) of someone hitting the Tour B R series with greater than the recommended swing speed or the Non-R series at lower the recommended swing speed. In my non-scientific tests, I didn’t see a difference but again, this was testing as a 1 man scramble across 5 rounds. Landed on the XS as it reminded me of the Titleist Tour Professional days, with its “heavier” feel off the putter and “stickiness” off the irons and wedges. 

On the range I’m at about 112 with my driver, but on course, I’m sure i vary from 100 to 115.

Freddie Couples plays the R series. I have a friend who went to Bridgestone for a ball fitting and his over 110 and got fit to the RXS. 
 

Those with slower speeds who need spin can benefit from the BX or BXS

[Gavwlee]

1 minute ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Freddie Couples plays the R series. I have a friend who went to Bridgestone for a ball fitting and his over 110 and got fit to the RXS. 
 

Those with slower speeds who need spin can benefit from the BX or BXS

Is spin the biggest difference between the 2? Where the R series will provide less spin when compared to the non-R?

[RickyBobby_PR]

2 minutes ago, Gavwlee said:

Is spin the biggest difference between the 2? Where the R series will provide less spin when compared to the non-R?

In my ball fittings with bridgestone that’s been the main difference. I was borderline 105 and the RX was the better ball and if I wanted softer feel the RXS. I’ve played the BX last year and didn’t really care for it off the tee especially compared to prov and tp5 and 5x

[Donn lost in San Diego]

Start at the end and work backwards.  Compare urethane vs. surlyn on the green.  Spend a bit of time putting to see what works.  Then try chipping from the fringe and short wedges to see about spin.  If you don't find a fav, then go and wail away off the tee. 

[Subdiver1]

On 1/14/2021 at 12:45 PM, Firebird said:

The data is copied directly from MSG Ball Comparison 2019.

Yes it matches that lab, but as noted later in the thread MGS changed the equipment they are testing compression with and the results are more consistent now.

[Subdiver1]

On 6/16/2021 at 6:29 PM, greggarner said:

The difference between tour balls off the driver at high swing speeds is generally pretty negligible, when comparing like models (i.e. ZStar vs ProV1 and ZStar XV vs ProV1x, Vice Pro vs ProV1 and Vice Pro Plus vs ProV1x, etc) and in general, the slower the swing speed, the less difference there is. Now, you mention Supersoft, which is an interesting wrinkle. Since many ionomer balls spin less than urethane balls (all Tour balls are urethane), high launch/low spin is a recipe for distance off the tee.

In this paradigm, I'd be really interested to see ionomer/low spin balls vs Tour-level low spin balls (TP5x, ProV1x Left Dash, etc). I don't know of many of these comparisons, but TXG did test the TaylorMade lineup (albeit at 120 mph) and found the Tour Response to be longer in the irons than either of the TP5 models. Off the tee, 120mph was too much juice, but at 85-90mph? I bet you could pickup a few yards...

@greggarner the Pro V became the lower spinning and the '1x the higher spinning ball with the 2017 versions. I thought all the 'x' versions followed that but a little reading shows the TP5x is, while high spinning around the green, lower than the straight TP5. You'd think everyone would follow some level of standardization to help the rest of us out but...

[cnosil]

8 hours ago, Subdiver1 said:

 You'd think everyone would follow some level of standardization to help the rest of us out but...

Standardization and golf industry are mutually exclusive terms.  

[dkoenig]

Compression does matter but not necessarily for distance.  Compression can cost you ball speed at all swing speeds, but that doesn't necessarily mean you lose distance.  Distance is a combination of ball speed, launch, and backspin regardless of the clubhead speed applied to the ball.  Higher ball speed is better but not necessarily at the expense of ideal launch and backspin characteristics.  

It is all about what fits you best.  For me, I apply too much spin on every shot (driver to wedge... the putter is good though) so I am experimenting with lower spin alternatives and some of those are lower compression balls.  I haven't been able to test it on a launch monitor yet, but I think there is a good chance I have better ball flight with the AVX than I would the the Pro V1X.  The lower spin and launch should give me better distance and still have plenty of spin.  Again, that is just me, others may benefit from the higher compression, higher launch and higher spin.  

At the end if the day, if you are trying to get your driver down the fairway 300 yards, it doesn't matter if when you get there you ball speed was a little lower because you hit a low compression ball.

[DiscipleofPenick]

I've noticed compression matters on the low end. I have a decent 105ish driver swing. Based on the ball labs it seems around 75 comp is where balls start losing distance. I've played the Chrome Soft & Q Star Tour and both those are about a club and half shorter then my Z-Star/ProV1 gamers. The only ball I've seen add distance is the AVX, I keep waiting for this ball lab.

[Tsecor]

Compression doesnt really matter because of all the crazy construction with ball technology......do you think a 91 compressionin a TP5X is the same as a 91 compression with a 3pc ball?

 

 

[Subdiver1]

On 8/1/2021 at 9:25 AM, DiscipleofPenick said:

I've noticed compression matters on the low end. I have a decent 105ish driver swing. Based on the ball labs it seems around 75 comp is where balls start losing distance. I've played the Chrome Soft & Q Star Tour and both those are about a club and half shorter then my Z-Star/ProV1 gamers. The only ball I've seen add distance is the AVX, I keep waiting for this ball lab.

Kind of like what dkeonig mentioned about spin rates, it may be that you are losing distance because of spin and the low spin design of the AVX helps out.  I see you are a 4 HDCP so I would assume you've already considered that, but since you hadn't mentioned whether spin was a factor...  I am not sure how much of a universal fix a ball change is?  My driver swing speed is also in the 105 range and I like the feel and distance of the AVX as well, but I don't feel like I have as much control around the green.  Then again, maybe I am missing something. 

Great discussion.

[DiscipleofPenick]

12 hours ago, Subdiver1 said:

Kind of like what dkeonig mentioned about spin rates, it may be that you are losing distance because of spin and the low spin design of the AVX helps out.  I see you are a 4 HDCP so I would assume you've already considered that, but since you hadn't mentioned whether spin was a factor...  I am not sure how much of a universal fix a ball change is?  My driver swing speed is also in the 105 range and I like the feel and distance of the AVX as well, but I don't feel like I have as much control around the green.  Then again, maybe I am missing something. 

Great discussion.

I do generally play the medium spin ProV1 and Z-Star. I don't feel like I'm giving up distance. I've tried the low spin V1x and TP5x this year and I don't hit them any further. And I like them less as they are quite clicky and don't react the way I like balls to around the greens. 

I'm going something is revealed in the 2021 ball test or a ball lab as to why the AVX is such a longer ball for me. Based on what it's rated and what others on the forum say, it shouldn't be longer. Also I hit it just as high as any other ball, but I don't know what is launch characteristics are.

[GregGarner]

1 hour ago, DiscipleofPenick said:

I do generally play the medium spin ProV1 and Z-Star. I don't feel like I'm giving up distance. I've tried the low spin V1x and TP5x this year and I don't hit them any further. And I like them less as they are quite clicky and don't react the way I like balls to around the greens. 

I'm going something is revealed in the 2021 ball test or a ball lab as to why the AVX is such a longer ball for me. Based on what it's rated and what others on the forum say, it shouldn't be longer. Also I hit it just as high as any other ball, but I don't know what is launch characteristics are.

FWIW, the V1x is higher spin than the traditional V1. The TP5x is lower-spin than the TP5 (and arguably one of the lowest-spinning balls on the market) but one of the last remaining X-balls that is lower-spin than its "standard" counterpart.

I, too, hit the AVX longer than either the V1 or V1x, but when looking at launch monitor data, it's roll-out and not carry that generates the extra distance. Since the AVX is lower-spinning (relatively), it makes sense that it would roll out more. I haven't played the Left Dash, but with higher launch and lower spin, it should be the longest of the bunch, but again, it's worth noting if the length is coming from carry or roll-out.

[DiscipleofPenick]

32 minutes ago, greggarner said:

FWIW, the V1x is higher spin than the traditional V1. The TP5x is lower-spin than the TP5 (and arguably one of the lowest-spinning balls on the market) but one of the last remaining X-balls that is lower-spin than its "standard" counterpart.

I, too, hit the AVX longer than either the V1 or V1x, but when looking at launch monitor data, it's roll-out and not carry that generates the extra distance. Since the AVX is lower-spinning (relatively), it makes sense that it would roll out more. I haven't played the Left Dash, but with higher launch and lower spin, it should be the longest of the bunch, but again, it's worth noting if the length is coming from carry or roll-out.

My home course is so dang soft I imagine it's all carry. But I don't have anywhere to hit balls on a launch monitor to know for sure. Does anywhere do an agnostic ball fitting?

[GregGarner]

18 hours ago, DiscipleofPenick said:

My home course is so dang soft I imagine it's all carry. But I don't have anywhere to hit balls on a launch monitor to know for sure. Does anywhere do an agnostic ball fitting?

2nd Swing and PGA TOUR Superstore do, though I haven't been through a fitting with either.

[DiscipleofPenick]

23 minutes ago, greggarner said:

2nd Swing and PGA TOUR Superstore do, though I haven't been through a fitting with either.

Closest PGA SS is a little over 2 hours.

[Tsecor]

On 8/1/2021 at 12:25 PM, DiscipleofPenick said:

I've noticed compression matters on the low end. I have a decent 105ish driver swing. Based on the ball labs it seems around 75 comp is where balls start losing distance. I've played the Chrome Soft & Q Star Tour and both those are about a club and half shorter then my Z-Star/ProV1 gamers. The only ball I've seen add distance is the AVX, I keep waiting for this ball lab.

the CS outflies most of the balls ive played this year and ive tried the following

prov1

left dash

TP5X

AVX

Prov1x

TP5

only the prov1 has been equal all year.....the CS is highly under rated for amateur players. 

[Subdiver1]

On 8/7/2021 at 11:42 AM, greggarner said:

FWIW, the V1x is higher spin than the traditional V1. The TP5x is lower-spin than the TP5 (and arguably one of the lowest-spinning balls on the market) but one of the last remaining X-balls that is lower-spin than its "standard" counterpart.

I, too, hit the AVX longer than either the V1 or V1x, but when looking at launch monitor data, it's roll-out and not carry that generates the extra distance. Since the AVX is lower-spinning (relatively), it makes sense that it would roll out more. I haven't played the Left Dash, but with higher launch and lower spin, it should be the longest of the bunch, but again, it's worth noting if the length is coming from carry or roll-out.

Greg and @discipleofpenick funny I was thinking the other day about this thread and the 'left dash' but I recall disciple liking the softer feel vs. the firmer ball.  I had a buddy give me a left dash and didn't feel like it was all that firm/clicky, but that is definitely something that is personal preference; I do lie the feel of the AVX and now you guys have me wondering about whether the distance is carry or roll out.  Now I am going to have to get out and see of I can get a comparison going. 

[Tsecor]

On 8/9/2021 at 8:52 AM, Tsecor said:

the CS outflies most of the balls ive played this year and ive tried the following

prov1

TP5X

AVX

Prov1x

TP5

only the prov1 has been equal all year.....the CS is highly under rated for amateur players. 

just played the CSX this week and it was pretty good.....flies far off the tee.....but mid irons is a little short for me....CS works better for me in the 7-9 irons....

still searching for the best ball this year as it seems i need to mesh many balls together to get what i truly need....

i hear the titleist left dot may be that unicorn ball.....

[BostonSal]

Maybe experimenting with different golf balls is fun for those of a certain mindset.

Maybe a few of us are really looking for something different in a ball and have a reason to try out new ones.

There are reasons for doing it, but since I took up the game, I've always tried to eliminate unnecessary variables.

When I land on a ball, I play it until it literally goes out of production.

When my approach lands in the creek, I have to KNOW it was me and not a ball that I'm trying out.

But that's no fun for some players.  I can dig it.   To each his/her own, right?