Nateyeight Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 What is the best golf ball to use? Does swing speed, clubs and or conditions play a factor? Quote Driver: G425 Max 10.5* 5 Wood: G425 Max 7 Wood: G425 Max Hybrid: TS2 23* Irons: 6 to GW, T300 Wedges: Vokey SM8 50F, 54S, 58K Putter: 1998 Tei3 Newport Long Neck Ball: Yellow Titleist VG3 Bag: Nike Air Hybrid Golf Bag I Love the Art of Putting! Link to comment
EdotTdot Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 I may be speaking out of turn here, but I don't think there's a "best" ball to use per say..it's more of a personal preference Yes - swing speed does make a difference, and also how much spin you put on the ball, but at the end of the day, depending on what your goals are and how much "feel" you have, I think it just comes down to playing whatever ball makes you happy. I'm sure there's some MGS blind test that can be run on different handicaps with a myriad of balls, and discover it really just comes down to how it "feels" for each individual golfer. This is just my opinion though, so put away your pitchforks. MWL_9, xOldBenKenobiX and Nateyeight 3 Quote M6 8.5* - 6.0 S Project X HZRDUS Smoke M2 19* - 70 S Aldila NV 4H 21* One Length - UST Recoil S Speedzone - 5-SW KING 60* Newport 1.5 - 34" Link to comment
Titleist87 Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 Most balls will come within a few yards of each other. It is the other performance indicators you need to research. Low spin? High spin? Feel? Nateyeight 1 Quote Fly Z+ UST Proforce V2 Black Golfsmith Jet Stream 3W UST Proforce V2 915 H3 Diamana Red 915 H4 Diamana Red Apex Edge Pro UST Recoil Dart Vokey SM6 50F/54S/58S Aerotech SteelFiber Huntington Beach 11S Pro V1 Bag Boy Chiller Bag Boy Quad XL Link to comment
Nateyeight Posted May 29, 2020 Author Share Posted May 29, 2020 8 minutes ago, EdotTdot said: I may be speaking out of turn here, but I don't think there's a "best" ball to use per say..it's more of a personal preference Yes - swing speed does make a difference, and also how much spin you put on the ball, but at the end of the day, depending on what your goals are and how much "feel" you have, I think it just comes down to playing whatever ball makes you happy. I'm sure there's some MGS blind test that can be run on different handicaps with a myriad of balls, and discover it really just comes down to how it "feels" for each individual golfer. This is just my opinion though, so put away your pitchforks. That makes sense. I have an average swing speed and hardly any spin on my shots. I will look for balls that assist me in those areas. Thank you! Quote Driver: G425 Max 10.5* 5 Wood: G425 Max 7 Wood: G425 Max Hybrid: TS2 23* Irons: 6 to GW, T300 Wedges: Vokey SM8 50F, 54S, 58K Putter: 1998 Tei3 Newport Long Neck Ball: Yellow Titleist VG3 Bag: Nike Air Hybrid Golf Bag I Love the Art of Putting! Link to comment
Nateyeight Posted May 29, 2020 Author Share Posted May 29, 2020 5 minutes ago, Titleist87 said: Most balls will come within a few yards of each other. It is the other performance indicators you need to research. Low spin? High spin? Feel? Thank you! I have a direction now to see what may suit me best. Quote Driver: G425 Max 10.5* 5 Wood: G425 Max 7 Wood: G425 Max Hybrid: TS2 23* Irons: 6 to GW, T300 Wedges: Vokey SM8 50F, 54S, 58K Putter: 1998 Tei3 Newport Long Neck Ball: Yellow Titleist VG3 Bag: Nike Air Hybrid Golf Bag I Love the Art of Putting! Link to comment
EdotTdot Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 If you really don't have a preference - I know some manufacturers offer trial sleeves (Cut, VICE), but I think I've seen a Bridgestone trial pack as well, I'd really just play a variety until you find something you like. Nateyeight 1 Quote M6 8.5* - 6.0 S Project X HZRDUS Smoke M2 19* - 70 S Aldila NV 4H 21* One Length - UST Recoil S Speedzone - 5-SW KING 60* Newport 1.5 - 34" Link to comment
Nateyeight Posted May 29, 2020 Author Share Posted May 29, 2020 10 minutes ago, EdotTdot said: If you really don't have a preference - I know some manufacturers offer trial sleeves (Cut, VICE), but I think I've seen a Bridgestone trial pack as well, I'd really just play a variety until you find something you like. Lately I have been liking the Bridgstone e soft balls, bu those trial ones are a good idea, I will check it out Quote Driver: G425 Max 10.5* 5 Wood: G425 Max 7 Wood: G425 Max Hybrid: TS2 23* Irons: 6 to GW, T300 Wedges: Vokey SM8 50F, 54S, 58K Putter: 1998 Tei3 Newport Long Neck Ball: Yellow Titleist VG3 Bag: Nike Air Hybrid Golf Bag I Love the Art of Putting! Link to comment
golfish! Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 What's your handicap? How many balls do you lose on average per round? Until you are able to play with 1 ball for an entire round it doesn't make sense to use a high $ ball because for the most part it means you won't get the benefit of it and it is racking up the cost of a hobby that can already be financially straining. That said, if money is not an issue then there are ball fittings and other data out there that will help you choose a ball that is best for your game. For a long time, I played a $5/dz ball made by precept and sold at home depot during the holidays on sale! I think I bought 10 dozen one season and lost almost all of them because i stopped caring about lost balls! Now a days i manage to make it usually at most 3 balls lost in a round so i play callaway chromesoft or taylormade tp5. Even then I buy them off FB for $1 each. Nateyeight 1 Quote Driver : SIM2 Max 9* MC Kuro Kago Silver 60 Stiff Woods : GS53 3 Wood 14* Mitsubish Tensei Blue 73g Regular Hybrids: 949X Project X HZRDUS RDX Black Irons : 699 Pro Black 5-AW 1* flat KBS Tour V 90 Stiff Shafts Wedges : 52, 56, 60 Putter : Spider Red Bag : lightweight cart bag | Dry Series Bag Ball : TP5 PIX (2019) | ProV1x (2021) Rangefinder : ULT-X Pushcart : M5 GPS DHC Electric Push Cart SoCal, USA Right handed HDCP 16.4 Link to comment
Nateyeight Posted May 29, 2020 Author Share Posted May 29, 2020 Just now, parkbrian1 said: What's your handicap? How many balls do you lose on average per round? Until you are able to play with 1 ball for an entire round it doesn't make sense to use a high $ ball because for the most part it means you won't get the benefit of it and it is racking up the cost of a hobby that can already be financially straining. That said, if money is not an issue then there are ball fittings and other data out there that will help you choose a ball that is best for your game. For a long time, I played a $5/dz ball made by precept and sold at home depot during the holidays on sale! I think I bought 10 dozen one season and lost almost all of them because i stopped caring about lost balls! Now a days i manage to make it usually at most 3 balls lost in a round so i play callaway chromesoft or taylormade tp5. Even then I buy them off FB for $1 each. The courses I play at have hardly any water so I will only lose around 1-2 balls per 18 holes, last round didn't lose any. My handicap hasn't been determined yet, maybe 28, I shoot roughly 105 a round. I don't mind spending money on the little things like balls, I have ordered some refurbished ones on the cheap to use and test out. Thanks for the tips Quote Driver: G425 Max 10.5* 5 Wood: G425 Max 7 Wood: G425 Max Hybrid: TS2 23* Irons: 6 to GW, T300 Wedges: Vokey SM8 50F, 54S, 58K Putter: 1998 Tei3 Newport Long Neck Ball: Yellow Titleist VG3 Bag: Nike Air Hybrid Golf Bag I Love the Art of Putting! Link to comment
Guests Guest Delete Posted May 29, 2020 Guests Share Posted May 29, 2020 51 minutes ago, Nateyeight said: What is the best golf ball to use? Does swing speed, clubs and or conditions play a factor? There is a best category of ball rather than one single ball: tour balls that have urethane covers, and 3, 4, or 5 piece construction. The shots less than 50 yards from the green don't usually spin near as much because it is a partial swing. Your best bet to get some green-side spin is a tour ball (as described above). Full shots, struck well, will perform relatively similar but tour balls go further much of the time, with more control. A couple price friendly balls are there Snell MTB balls, and Taylormade Project (a) balls. Another spinney ball is the Srixon Z-Star. Cheaper balls just don't have green-side spin like tour balls. People play them because they cost less. You will learn that sticking to one ball will let you learn from every ball you hit to increase your consistency even if it is a cheap ball. Quote Link to comment
golfish! Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 1 minute ago, Nateyeight said: The courses I play at have hardly any water so I will only lose around 1-2 balls per 18 holes, last round didn't lose any. My handicap hasn't been determined yet, maybe 28, I shoot roughly 105 a round. I don't mind spending money on the little things like balls, I have ordered some refurbished ones on the cheap to use and test out. Thanks for the tips It's not always water that gobbles up balls. Sometimes tall rough or OB takes em out too. I had a wicked slice for the longest time off my drive (and still do sometimes when i get lazy and tired). But if you are able to keep the ball in play i would look at all the data on balls on MGS official reviews and play a few till you find one you like. It really does come down to feel for the most part. Nateyeight 1 Quote Driver : SIM2 Max 9* MC Kuro Kago Silver 60 Stiff Woods : GS53 3 Wood 14* Mitsubish Tensei Blue 73g Regular Hybrids: 949X Project X HZRDUS RDX Black Irons : 699 Pro Black 5-AW 1* flat KBS Tour V 90 Stiff Shafts Wedges : 52, 56, 60 Putter : Spider Red Bag : lightweight cart bag | Dry Series Bag Ball : TP5 PIX (2019) | ProV1x (2021) Rangefinder : ULT-X Pushcart : M5 GPS DHC Electric Push Cart SoCal, USA Right handed HDCP 16.4 Link to comment
Chizzle Posted May 29, 2020 Share Posted May 29, 2020 33 minutes ago, Nateyeight said: The courses I play at have hardly any water so I will only lose around 1-2 balls per 18 holes, last round didn't lose any. My handicap hasn't been determined yet, maybe 28, I shoot roughly 105 a round. I don't mind spending money on the little things like balls, I have ordered some refurbished ones on the cheap to use and test out. Thanks for the tips Out of all the equipment, golf balls may be the most expensive because they are close to being consumables. With your current level or ability in golf I wouldn't worry too much about equipment. I think the cheapest model from any major brand will do you justice. The only thing I may think about is durability but durable typically = more money. Feel will probably become important at some time but spin is going to be more important. I feel like all the top tier premium balls feel the same or very very similar. I think working on and improving your golf swing will help you a lot more with enjoyment and score than playing say a TP5(x), prov1(x), ect. If you got the money to burn, dont think you can go wrong with prov1(x), tp5(x), srixon z star tour, or bridgestones top tier ball (tour b rxs?). Not sure wanted all that but just my 2 cents pkgavin and Nateyeight 2 Quote Link to comment
Nateyeight Posted May 29, 2020 Author Share Posted May 29, 2020 1 minute ago, Chizzle said: Out of all the equipment, golf balls may be the most expensive because they are close to being consumables. With your current level or ability in golf I wouldn't worry too much about equipment. I think the cheapest model from any major brand will do you justice. The only thing I may think about is durability but durable typically = more money. Feel will probably become important at some time but spin is going to be more important. I feel like all the top tier premium balls feel the same or very very similar. I think working on and improving your golf swing will help you a lot more with enjoyment and score than playing say a TP5(x), prov1(x), ect. If you got the money to burn, dont think you can go wrong with prov1(x), tp5(x), srixon z star tour, or bridgestones top tier ball (tour b rxs?). Not sure wanted all that but just my 2 cents I appreciate the feedback. The 2 cents everyone has is the reason I posted the question I think something that will help with spin might be the way to go. I am not too worried about distance at the moment. Not until I am more consistent. Thanks Chizzle 1 Quote Driver: G425 Max 10.5* 5 Wood: G425 Max 7 Wood: G425 Max Hybrid: TS2 23* Irons: 6 to GW, T300 Wedges: Vokey SM8 50F, 54S, 58K Putter: 1998 Tei3 Newport Long Neck Ball: Yellow Titleist VG3 Bag: Nike Air Hybrid Golf Bag I Love the Art of Putting! Link to comment
Guests Guest Delete Posted May 29, 2020 Guests Share Posted May 29, 2020 21 minutes ago, Chizzle said: Out of all the equipment, golf balls may be the most expensive because they are close to being consumables. With your current level or ability in golf I wouldn't worry too much about equipment. I think the cheapest model from any major brand will do you justice. The only thing I may think about is durability but durable typically = more money. Feel will probably become important at some time but spin is going to be more important. I feel like all the top tier premium balls feel the same or very very similar. I think working on and improving your golf swing will help you a lot more with enjoyment and score than playing say a TP5(x), prov1(x), ect. If you got the money to burn, dont think you can go wrong with prov1(x), tp5(x), srixon z star tour, or bridgestones top tier ball (tour b rxs?). Not sure wanted all that but just my 2 cents My favorite cheap ball for durability was the Titleist DtTruSoft which has been replaced by the TruFeel. I haven't had a chance to put the TruFeel through any on-course testing. However, I would assume it isn't too much different. Quote Link to comment
xOldBenKenobiX Posted May 30, 2020 Share Posted May 30, 2020 Preference is the keyword here. I've tryed a vast number of golf balls, right now I'm pretty happy with the Titleist TourSoft. It checks pretty much all of the boxes for my game, good distance off the tee, as well as good control, it responds well to the irons, plenty spin around the green and very durable. If you ast 50 golfers which ball they play you probably get 50 different balls between brand and model. Your best bet is to get a couple of different sleeves at the time and try them out. Nateyeight 1 Quote My Reviews: 2023 Official review - Rapsodo MLM2Pro! 2022 Official Review - Edel SMS Wedges 2021 Official Review - Tommy Armour Impact 3 Putter 2020 Official Member Review - BagBoy Chiller Cart Bag Cobra SpeedZone Xtreme - Unofficial Review by xOldBenKenobiX Honma TR21 4 Wood - Unofficial Review by xOldBenKenobiX Driver - Cobra SpeedZone Xtreme 10.5, UST helium 5 Wood - . TR21 4 Wood, Vizard 20-60 and TW GS 5 Wood Vixard FD 55 301 Combo 301CB and 301MB . SMS 48*, 56*, 60* Putter: Lucky golf putter. Ball: : ProV1, :: Smart Sensors. Shoes: a couple :: A couple of A couple of Adidas , Yeah I have a shoe addiction.:: Started at 79mph, finished 1st stage at 91mph Link to comment
Jbmullin Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 I have tried heaps of different golf balls and I keep coming back to pro v1x or tp5x. I am trying TP5 tomorrow morning on the recommendation of the fitter at the local shop. Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy Quote DRIVER - Ping G425 SFT Driver Tensei AV 55 Orange Reg Flex Woods - Ping G425 7 wood Tensei AV 65 Orange Reg Flex Irons - Cobra Rad Speed 1 Length UST Recoil 780 Smacwrap Graphite Reg Flex WEDGES- Callaway jaws 52/56/60 PUTTER- Taylormade FCG spider putter 34" BALL- Pro V1x or Tp5X -- trying to figure this one out. Footjoy Tour S golf shoe Link to comment
Guests Guest Delete Posted June 1, 2020 Guests Share Posted June 1, 2020 On 5/30/2020 at 8:25 PM, Jbmullin said: I have tried heaps of different golf balls and I keep coming back to pro v1x or tp5x. I am trying TP5 tomorrow morning on the recommendation of the fitter at the local shop. Sent from my iPad using MyGolfSpy Those two and the AVX are my favorites and have all my longest drives with: 304, 307, and 312 (measured by GPS). I had a round on a local 9 hole with a TP5 today and scored 2 over par; my best round ever. Quote Link to comment
stj51 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 On 5/29/2020 at 3:05 PM, Nateyeight said: What is the best golf ball to use? Does swing speed, clubs and or conditions play a factor? Swing Speed is definitely a factor, I like the Bridgestone balls a lot because they tell you based off your speed which ball is ideal. My clubhead speed is under 105 mph so I go between e12 soft and tour b rx. I know soft causes a loss in distance but going between the two it hasn't been noticeable enough for the price difference to I play the e12 a lot more. Quote - Driver - TSi2 10 deg, -1 Length, Project X TSi Hzrdus Smoke Black RDX 60 (6.0) - Fairway Wood - TSi2 3 Wood 15 deg, -½ Length, Project X TSi Hzrdus Smoke Black RDX 70 (6.0) - Hybrid - TS2 Hybrid 19 deg Project X Hzrdus Smoke Black 80 HYB (6.0) - Hybrid - TS2 Hybrid 23 deg Project X Hzrdus Smoke Black 80 HYB (6.0) - Irons T200 (6 - W 48) True Temper AMT Black (S300) - Wedge - SM7 52.12 F Grind, True Temper Vokey Wedge (Wedge Flex) - Wedge - SM8 56.12 D Grind, True Temper Vokey Wedge (Wedge Flex) - Wedge - SM8 60.12 D Grind, True Temper Vokey Wedge (Wedge Flex) - 2020 Newport Select, Pistolini Grip, 35" - ProV1 Link to comment
Middler Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 I want spin on approach. The best to me is the Titleist Pro V1, but since I have to pay for my golf balls the best value is the Snell MTB. Bridgestone, Srixon, and TaylorMade tour balls are very good too. If you want greenside spin, you want a 3,4 or 5 piece ball with a urethane cover. There are soft and firm options, but they perform similarly. Many slower swing speed players can’t generate enough speed to spin the ball much, they expect the ball to release and run onto the green on approach shots (instead of stopping or backing up). For those players, any ball will play about the same. The differences in distance with a driver are usually small, limited by the USGA, and shouldn’t be the primary factor in choosing a ball. Nateyeight and dgoober 2 Quote Titleist TSR2 11° HZRDUS Red CB 50 6.0 w Lamkin UTx Midsize Titleist TSR2 16.5º HZRDUS Red 60 CB 6.0 & TSR2 21º HZRDUS Black 4G 70 6.0 w Lamkin UTx Midsize Mizuno JPX923 HMP 4-GW, T22 54.12WS, T22 58.04DC w Lamkin ST+2 Hybrid Midsize Evnroll EV5.3 Maxfli Tour & ProV1 Ping Pioneer - MGI Zip Navigator AT Payntr X 002 LE, Ecco Biom C4, Payntr X 001 F (Mesh) Link to comment
dgoober Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 (edited) @Nateyeight Vice has a pretty good ball-fitting widget on their website. Vice Golf check it out, if nothing for the knowledge. I like their offerings and will be placing an order when my supply runs low. If you’re shopping around for balls, consider calling your local golf shop and seeing if they would split up some sleeves. Get a mixed pack of 3-4 different types and swing away! Golf Galaxy has done that for me in the past, as has my local specialty shop Carl’s GolfLand. Carl’s Golf Land Edited June 1, 2020 by dgoober Added and fixed web links to products Nateyeight and EdotTdot 2 Quote Link to comment
Middler Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 I assume you looked at the 2019 MGS Most Wanted Golf Ball article, great information. The 2020 edition is due out soon if you want to wait for that, but I wouldn't expect the results to be wildly different, we'll see. https://mygolfspy.com/most-wanted-golf-ball/ Quote Titleist TSR2 11° HZRDUS Red CB 50 6.0 w Lamkin UTx Midsize Titleist TSR2 16.5º HZRDUS Red 60 CB 6.0 & TSR2 21º HZRDUS Black 4G 70 6.0 w Lamkin UTx Midsize Mizuno JPX923 HMP 4-GW, T22 54.12WS, T22 58.04DC w Lamkin ST+2 Hybrid Midsize Evnroll EV5.3 Maxfli Tour & ProV1 Ping Pioneer - MGI Zip Navigator AT Payntr X 002 LE, Ecco Biom C4, Payntr X 001 F (Mesh) Link to comment
christina42 Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 There are many categories of golf balls you can check out this page for pricing and reviews I purchased call way ERC, It gives me both extra distance and good control around the greens. I thoroughly recommend them. Quote Golf is like a love affair! Link to comment
silvialong Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 (edited) I'm pretty sure the whole point is that golf is a great sport. This is a game for real intellectuals and intellectuals, and as we all know, often people with military education are an integral part of our society. I think that's why they are so often fans of the game of golf. Despite the fact that they are strong guys and it would be more suitable for them to play, for example, football, they choose golf because it is a very exciting sport that helps to develop not only the body, but also the brain. I have heard that they purchase balls using the website https://sportsgearmetry.com/best-golf-balls-for-women/. Edited March 22, 2022 by silvialong Quote Link to comment
fozcycle Posted April 8, 2022 Share Posted April 8, 2022 Granted Titleist Pro V1’s are the best got most people but the Maxfli Tour CG is the best ball not named Titleist. … and is usually about $35/dozen or cheaper rather than Titleist for $50/dozen. Quote Driver: 0311 XF 10.5* w/Project X Cypher 40 gram Senior shaft or 0811 XF 12* w/Evenflo Riptide CB Senior shaft Fairways: 0211 5W & 7W w/ Evenflo Riptide CB regular shaft and Tour Edge E521 9W w/Fubuki HD50 regular shaft Hybrid: None in bag at the moment Irons: Titleist T300 5-PW w/Fubuki MV Senior graphite shafts w/Golf Pride Tour Wedges: Edison forged 49*, 53* and 57* wedges with KB PGI Senior shafts(80 grm). Putter: 33” Evnroll ER6R or ER2 or Bellum Winmore Model 707, or Nike Method Core Drone w/Evnroll Gravity Grip Bag: Vice cart bag(Black/Lime). Ball: Snell MTB Prime X, Maxfli Tour/S/X CG, Titleist Pro V1x or Titleist TruFeel Using Shot Scope X5 and Pinned Rangefinder Link to comment
ajbillingsatx Posted April 29, 2022 Share Posted April 29, 2022 I recently used Ballnamic (From Ping). It recommends your top 5 balls (You can pick for performance or best value) based on either your ball speed/launch conditions or based on carry distances and other preferences. It costs $39, but between the recommendations from the tool and the MGS ball testing I was able to narrow my search down a bit. Currently testing the Snell MTB-X, ProV1x, and Chrome Soft X. Quote PING G425 LST 9* | VA Composites SLAY 65 PING G425 LST 3W 14.5* | Fujikura Atmos Blue PING G425 3H 19* | Oban Devotion PING i500 4-5, PING i59 6-PW | Nippon N.S. Pro 1150GH Tour PING Glide Forged 50* | Nippon N.S. Pro 1150GH Tour PING Glide Forged 55*, 60* | Nippon Modus 3 115 Wedge PING PLD Milled Prime Tyne 4 Putter 35" Titleist Pro V1x Link to comment
Lmerrick Posted May 3, 2022 Share Posted May 3, 2022 Very subjective, but I recently started playing the left dash pro v1x and I really like it. GrumpyGolf 1 Quote Larry A. Merrick Link to comment
drb1956 Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 (edited) Just buy the cheap distance balls until you develop your game. You will lose a ton of balls, and you don't need to pay $4-5 a ball if you continually lose them. Read what you can about different balls on the mfgs. web sites, and read the reviews, so you know how they work for others. Mfgs. will tell about the characteristics of their balls, with the tech that's built into the ball. Buy sleeves of the more expensive balls to try them out. Some balls give you good spin around the green, but that spin can work against you on the tee. So, buy cheaper balls till you know you can keep the ball in play, unless you have deep pockets. TopFlite Hammer Control is a good starting point, with great pricing. Has nice manners around the green, with good distance off the tee. The Maxfli SoftFli, or StraightFli is also a good beginners choice, or even the Pinnacle Rush, or Soft is also another choice. TopFlite XL Distance is a rock of a ball, but they are one of the cheapest selections out there. Plenty to choose from, at low prices... Edited June 26, 2022 by drb1956 spelling Quote Driver-Ping g410 SFT, 3W-Callaway Diablo Octane, Hybrids-Snake Eyes Viper 18*+ 21*, Irons-GigaGolf Reva Hybrid Irons 24*- 46*, Wedges-Cleveland CBX2's 50*54*58*, Putter-Cleveland Huntington Beach Soft 11c Link to comment
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