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Fellow Spies,

Having injured my back two weeks in a row and putting my SuperSpeed review training on hold, I've had more time to think about putting.

My question for you is: How tightly do you grip your putter?

I've been experimenting a lot and feel that when I hold the putter loosely (like a 2 on a scale of 1-10) the putter wants to rotate on its own (more natural) vs having to try and rotate it or square it with the hands.

Which leads to a different question, do you believe in active squaring of the putter face, or 'natural' (or is there even such a thing)?

Looking forward to hearing lots of thoughts. 

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:SuperSpeed: Training

Pre training max driver speed: 124mph

Current: 130mph

WITB:

Driver: :ping-small: G400 LST 8.5* with HZRDUS SMOKE 6.5 70g 

Woods: :taylormade-small: 2007 Burner TP 3 wood and 5 wood

Irons:  :srixon-small: Z765 4-PW (1 degree flat) with KBS $-130 shafts

Wedges:  Vokey SM7 50/12/F, 54/10/S and 58/12/D

Putter: 681811256_Odysseylogo.png.499799aea6663befa411c8db1d859702.png Stroke Lab Ten S 33"

Ball:  :srixon-small: Z-Star XV

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@ChasingScratch

How tightly do you grip your putter?  3 +/- a little bit.

Which leads to a different question, do you believe in active squaring of the putter face, or 'natural' (or is there even such a thing)?  I let the putter naturally rotate through the stroke with no active manipulation to control the stroke. I probably subconsciously hold the putter open a bit to compensate for a left miss.  

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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :cleveland-small: 588 54-14, 58-12
Putter:  :taylormade-small:TM-180

Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330,   :EVNROLL: ER2.2,  

 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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9 minutes ago, cnosil said:

@ChasingScratch

How tightly do you grip your putter?  3 +/- a little bit.

Which leads to a different question, do you believe in active squaring of the putter face, or 'natural' (or is there even such a thing)?  I let the putter naturally rotate through the stroke with no active manipulation to control the stroke. I probably subconsciously hold the putter open a bit to compensate for a left miss.  

Thanks for the insights.  When I had my putter fitting, my fitter gave me a mallet design with some toe-hang (Ping Sigma 2 Tyne 4) to help with natural rotation.  It is a putter billed as for a "strong arch" stroke.  All the mallet with toe hang putters he had me try were way different to what I had felt in my putting stroke.  I could actually feel arch and rotation.  So I do think the design of the putter can help with 'natural rotation' provided we don't actively manipulate the putter by gripping too tightly.  If I hold the putter at the end with two fingers and let it swing on its own, it naturally rotates open and closed, thus my current thought that a lighter grip is better to reduce actively manipulating the face.  However, everyone's interpretation of grip pressure is different.  My 2 could be someone else's 5.

Here is a interview with Tiger Woods saying that he likes to feel the putter in his fingers (which would seem to suggest a light grip pressure).  He was talking about Ben Crenshaw and how Crenshaw would dangle the putter in his fingers. But even Tiger was saying he feels a 5 or a 6 pressure.

 

Edited by ChasingScratch

Instagram:  @_chasing_scratch

YouTube: Chasing Scratch

Facebook:  Chasing Scratch

:SuperSpeed: Training

Pre training max driver speed: 124mph

Current: 130mph

WITB:

Driver: :ping-small: G400 LST 8.5* with HZRDUS SMOKE 6.5 70g 

Woods: :taylormade-small: 2007 Burner TP 3 wood and 5 wood

Irons:  :srixon-small: Z765 4-PW (1 degree flat) with KBS $-130 shafts

Wedges:  Vokey SM7 50/12/F, 54/10/S and 58/12/D

Putter: 681811256_Odysseylogo.png.499799aea6663befa411c8db1d859702.png Stroke Lab Ten S 33"

Ball:  :srixon-small: Z-Star XV

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2 hours ago, ChasingScratch said:

Thanks for the insights.  When I had my putter fitting, my fitter gave me a mallet design with some toe-hang (Ping Sigma 2 Tyne 4) to help with natural rotation.  It is a putter billed as for a "strong arch" stroke.  All the mallet with toe hang putters he had me try were way different to what I had felt in my putting stroke.  I could actually feel arch and rotation.  So I do think the design of the putter can help with 'natural rotation' provided we don't actively manipulate the putter by gripping too tightly.  If I hold the putter at the end with two fingers and let it swing on its own, it naturally rotates open and closed, thus my current thought that a lighter grip is better to reduce actively manipulating the face.  However, everyone's interpretation of grip pressure is different.  My 2 could be someone else's 5.

Here is a interview with Tiger Woods saying that he likes to feel the putter in his fingers (which would seem to suggest a light grip pressure).  He was talking about Ben Crenshaw and how Crenshaw would dangle the putter in his fingers. But even Tiger was saying he feels a 5 or a 6 pressure.

 

Here is article that says steve stricker has a pressure of 7 in his left hand and lighter in his right:  https://www.golfdigest.com/story/steve-stricker-putting

Here is Brad Faxon's thoughts: 

 

Here is Crenshaws thoughts: 

 

 

 

My personal thoughts on the topic are:  putting is full of choices and we need to choose the things that enable us to start your ball on intended line and control distance.  

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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :cleveland-small: 588 54-14, 58-12
Putter:  :taylormade-small:TM-180

Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330,   :EVNROLL: ER2.2,  

 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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Been there. I think the best thing to think about when putting is speed. I say this because it takes a tremendous amount of thought out of “am I gripping too tight”, “am I shutting the face”, “are my shoulders square”. A lot of times when I catch myself getting too technical, I’ll drop a bunch of balls in the middle of a practice green (if no one else is around) and start rolling to all the different holes without thinking. Frees the mind up and my stroke sort of finds itself.   

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Gripping any club tightly is a mistake for me, especially my putter. I putt best when I relax everything - grip, arms, shoulders - make a long smooth stroke and follow through. My only putting swing thought is to keep my wrists still and let my turn be mostly shoulders. YMMV

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I'm like @cnosil for grip pressure.  Any thoughts about manipulating the stroke other than YOUR natural release is asking for trouble IMO.  

I love @TurnMaker's putting to different holes without thinking to free up thinking while focusing on speed.  I do similar practice because when playing I always look at the hole when putting, so I must focus on the speed.

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2 hours ago, TurnMaker said:
Been there. I think the best thing to think about when putting is speed. I say this because it takes a tremendous amount of thought out of “am I gripping too tight”, “am I shutting the face”, “are my shoulders square”. A lot of times when I catch myself getting too technical, I’ll drop a bunch of balls in the middle of a practice green (if no one else is around) and start rolling to all the different holes without thinking. Frees the mind up and my stroke sort of finds itself.   

 I went out and did some putting practice last night with this exact strategy. I’m playing around with a few different visualization techniques. The first is the high line and low line. All I do is imagine both those lines and try to hit between them. Whatever happens happens.  

IMG_6419.thumb.JPG.c2c74ecbe40ac7d742b84cea2ed89032.JPG

 

The second one I really enjoyed was imagining various sized larger circles around the cup. For longer putts (say 20+ feet), I saw a 3-foot circle around the cup. If I hit that larger circle, I “made” my putt. 10 feet I imagined a 1.5-foot circle past the cup. Anything closer, I imagined a box behind the cup that I would want to miss in if I didn’t make the putt. Totally frees up putting and makes it more of a natural/faster process. Harder for me to three-putt with that strategy.

 

Red: 20+ feet

Yellow: 10ft

Green: inside 10ft

These are not exactly to scale, just a visual for concept sake.

IMG_6419.thumb.JPG.9bd1f5a2891a87e243af96f8b9fe979a.JPG

 

This is just a modified (not exact) version of what my strategy coach @EdTeer recommended for me. It is very useful. You could use rectangles, boxes, whatever helps you visualize.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

 

 

 

Edited by ChasingScratch
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Instagram:  @_chasing_scratch

YouTube: Chasing Scratch

Facebook:  Chasing Scratch

:SuperSpeed: Training

Pre training max driver speed: 124mph

Current: 130mph

WITB:

Driver: :ping-small: G400 LST 8.5* with HZRDUS SMOKE 6.5 70g 

Woods: :taylormade-small: 2007 Burner TP 3 wood and 5 wood

Irons:  :srixon-small: Z765 4-PW (1 degree flat) with KBS $-130 shafts

Wedges:  Vokey SM7 50/12/F, 54/10/S and 58/12/D

Putter: 681811256_Odysseylogo.png.499799aea6663befa411c8db1d859702.png Stroke Lab Ten S 33"

Ball:  :srixon-small: Z-Star XV

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1 hour ago, ChasingScratch said:

 I went out and did some putting practice last night with this exact strategy. I’m playing around with a few different visualization techniques. The first is the high line and low line. All I do is imagine both those lines and try to hit between them. Whatever happens happens.  

IMG_6419.thumb.JPG.c2c74ecbe40ac7d742b84cea2ed89032.JPG

 

The second one I really enjoyed was imagining various sized larger circles around the cup. For longer putts (say 20+ feet), I saw a 3-foot circle around the cup. If I hit that larger circle, I “made” my putt. 10 feet I imagined a 1.5-foot circle past the cup. Anything closer, I imagined a box behind the cup that I would want to miss in if I didn’t make the putt. Totally frees up putting and makes it more of a natural/faster process. Harder for me to three-putt with that strategy.

 

Red: 20+ feet

Yellow: 10ft

Green: inside 10ft

These are not exactly to scale, just a visual for concept sake.

IMG_6419.thumb.JPG.9bd1f5a2891a87e243af96f8b9fe979a.JPG

 

This is just a modified (not exact) version of what my strategy coach @EdTeer recommended for me. It is very useful. You could use rectangles, boxes, whatever helps you visualize.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

 

 

 

Info for all:

 

I'm not a huge fan of group 'grip pressure' conversations.  There is no base line so it purely reported as a players feel so not helpful to another golfer.  Skills sets do matter: 

1. Speed Control.

2. Roll is straight for 2-3' and be able to strike a dime.  (all putts are straight putts matched with the proper speed)

3. Read the green.

4. Match the line & speed.  (I believe it is a romantic notion that amateurs should be trying to vary speed.)

I have slightly varied the sizing of the strategy, but this is a great job of setting up a good expectation.  My changes are as follows:

0-10' - front edge to 12" passed the hole

10-15' - between the two standards based on skill or putt difficulty

15-25' - two foot proximity which is a 4 foot circle with the hole in the middle. 

25' plus - three foot proximity or 6 circle with the hole in the middle (even most handicap golfers make 8-9/10 therefore eliminating most three-putts)

I don't care if you use circles or squares.  A golfer's intention should always be the 12" past the hole but accepting of anything that fits into the able speed windows.  Improving speed will yield more made putts even if some amount stays short.  Most golfers will save strokes by eliminating to three-putts than they will lose by hitting some putts short of the hole.  Most won't believe me so don't tell me I'm wrong, go prove that I am wrong. 

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Info for all:
 
I'm not a huge fan of group 'grip pressure' conversations.  There is no base line so it purely reported as a players feel so not helpful to another golfer.  Skills sets do matter: 
1. Speed Control.
2. Roll is straight for 2-3' and be able to strike a dime.  (all putts are straight putts matched with the proper speed)
3. Read the green.
4. Match the line & speed.  (I believe it is a romantic notion that amateurs should be trying to vary speed.)
I have slightly varied the sizing of the strategy, but this is a great job of setting up a good expectation.  My changes are as follows:
0-10' - front edge to 12" passed the hole
10-15' - between the two standards based on skill or putt difficulty
15-25' - two foot proximity which is a 4 foot circle with the hole in the middle. 
25' plus - three foot proximity or 6 circle with the hole in the middle (even most handicap golfers make 8-9/10 therefore eliminating most three-putts)
I don't care if you use circles or squares.  A golfer's intention should always be the 12" past the hole but accepting of anything that fits into the able speed windows.  Improving speed will yield more made putts even if some amount stays short.  Most golfers will save strokes by eliminating to three-putts than they will lose by hitting some putts short of the hole.  Most won't believe me so don't tell me I'm wrong, go prove that I am wrong. 


Thanks for chiming in coach. I never want to give away your info without your say, thus the proximity concepts as a general idea rather than your exact standards.


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Instagram:  @_chasing_scratch

YouTube: Chasing Scratch

Facebook:  Chasing Scratch

:SuperSpeed: Training

Pre training max driver speed: 124mph

Current: 130mph

WITB:

Driver: :ping-small: G400 LST 8.5* with HZRDUS SMOKE 6.5 70g 

Woods: :taylormade-small: 2007 Burner TP 3 wood and 5 wood

Irons:  :srixon-small: Z765 4-PW (1 degree flat) with KBS $-130 shafts

Wedges:  Vokey SM7 50/12/F, 54/10/S and 58/12/D

Putter: 681811256_Odysseylogo.png.499799aea6663befa411c8db1d859702.png Stroke Lab Ten S 33"

Ball:  :srixon-small: Z-Star XV

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1 hour ago, ChasingScratch said:

 


Thanks for chiming in coach. I never want to give away your info without your say, thus the proximity concepts as a general idea rather than your exact standards.


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

 

I appreciate it!

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Id say my grip pressure is about a 3.  I try to follow the old Bobby Jones tip about grip pressure where you want to act like you are holding a baby bird.  You want to hold it tightly enough so that it doesnt fly away but not so tightly that you crush it.

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"I suppose its better to be a master of 7 than to be vaguely familiar with 14." - Chick Evans

Whats in my Sun Mountain 2.5+ stand bag?

Woods: Tommy Armour Atomic 10.5* 

Irons: Mizuno MP Fli-Hi 21* and Mizuno T-Zoid True 5, 7 and 9-irons

Wedge: Mizuno S18 Blue Ion 54*

Putter: Mizuno Bettinardi A-02

Ball: Maxfli Tour X

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5 hours ago, edteergolf said:

Improving speed will yield more made putts even if some amount stays short.  Most golfers will save strokes by eliminating to three-putts than they will lose by hitting some putts short of the hole.  Most won't believe me so don't tell me I'm wrong, go prove that I am wrong. 

A good discussion and example of this is shown in a Scott Fawcett video on Youtube.   They had PGA pro Aaron Wise hit putts from 20 feet;  the distance between his shortest to longest was 6 1/2 feet deep.  

Start at 50:30 seconds to see the discussion.  

 

 

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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :cleveland-small: 588 54-14, 58-12
Putter:  :taylormade-small:TM-180

Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330,   :EVNROLL: ER2.2,  

 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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I follow the teaching of Pat O’Brien: zero tension in the arms, wrists or grip. If one does this, they can have a natural pendulum motion and won’t need to manipulate the stroke in any way. I’ve never putted better in my life.

 

 

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Driver: :cobra-small: King F9 Speedback, Xphlexxx Busa 2 Liquid, XX stiff, 45”

Fwy: 

Hybrid: :callaway-small: X2 Hot Pro, 20*, :Fuji: Rombax 8D07HB TM27 X

Irons: :honma:TR20 Tour P 4/5, Tour V 6-10, Dynamic Gold X100

Wedges: Vega VW-06 50*/54*/58*, Dynamic Gold S400

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A good discussion and example of this is shown in a Scott Fawcett video on Youtube.   They had PGA pro Aaron Wise hit putts from 20 feet;  the distance between his shortest to longest was 6 1/2 feet deep.  
Start at 50:30 seconds to see the discussion.  
[/url]  
 


I remember seeing this video. Scott’s stuff makes lots of logical sense to me. Now with the former and current golf ball studies by MyGolfSpy and the effect of an off-center core on increased shot dispersion, it becomes more and more apparent that golf is not a game of perfection.


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Instagram:  @_chasing_scratch

YouTube: Chasing Scratch

Facebook:  Chasing Scratch

:SuperSpeed: Training

Pre training max driver speed: 124mph

Current: 130mph

WITB:

Driver: :ping-small: G400 LST 8.5* with HZRDUS SMOKE 6.5 70g 

Woods: :taylormade-small: 2007 Burner TP 3 wood and 5 wood

Irons:  :srixon-small: Z765 4-PW (1 degree flat) with KBS $-130 shafts

Wedges:  Vokey SM7 50/12/F, 54/10/S and 58/12/D

Putter: 681811256_Odysseylogo.png.499799aea6663befa411c8db1d859702.png Stroke Lab Ten S 33"

Ball:  :srixon-small: Z-Star XV

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Same as my club grip......way too tightly. . 

Driver: :cobra-small: Speed Zone 9* HZRDUS Smoke Yellow Shaft

3 Wood: :cobra-small: King Speedzone 13.5* HZRDUS Smoke Black Shaft

2 & 3 Hybrids: :cobra-small: Speedzone Recoil 480 ESX Shaft

Irons: :cobra-small: Speedzone 5-GW Recoil 460 ESX Shafts

Wedges: :cobra-small: MIM 54* Versatile/60* Widelow

Putter: :odyssey-small: Dual Force Rossi II

Ball: Whatever I find in the woods

:Arccos:

HCP:18

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My grip is tight enough the putter doesn't move but also light enough that I feel the weight of the putter head go thru the zone.

My Odyssey Seven S, i can feel the weight and am able to get a good feel for the long and short putts.

The one thing about putting is the only thing that is extremely unique to the individual and how the can go back and thru. My method could be horrible to others and work for some. Tiger likes using the ping skinny grip, some people like the fat grip to take their hands out of the equation .

 

 

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Driver:  TourEdge Exotic Pro 10.5 with Tensei CK Orange 60 Stiff 
3 -Wood: Cobra King SZ with Tensei AV Blue Stiff
4-Hybrid: Cobra King F9 Hybrid
Irons: Mizuno MP-18 MMC - 5-PW , w/SteelFiber i125
WedgesCleveland RTX 4 RAW - 52 ,56, 60
Putter: Odyssey Stroke Lab Seven S, 34in
BallsTaylorMade TPx  & Snell MTB-X-
GPS:  :skycaddie: LX5 Watch

 

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