juspoole Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 (edited) I was curious to take other's thoughts about how they approach a hole with a slight dogleg. Holes that obviously call for a draw or fade. I tend to have a natural fade to my ball so I will usually play on the right side to let it go straight or fade over and generally take out the right side of the course as often as I can(remember I'm a lefty) Below as example: If I was a Righty, I would still be aiming at tree line to let my fade to over or if I hit it straight I'm ok. I normally wouldn't be going for the draw here. If I have to play a draw, I usually can shape it without much difficulty, but usually have trouble knowing how much it will turn over since that's not my natural shape. Also would be curious on straighter holes, what are you thoughts. Play down a certain side of the fairway to play your natural shape? Pick a spot and try to hit a straight ball? What has worked for you? I've heard a lot of instructors with differing thoughts that make sense to me. If you can't break 80 by hitting it straight, you shouldn't be trying to shape it very often. Others will say the higher percentage is to have a shape in mind (rather than straight) to take a side of the hole out of play. Jack Nicklaus used to approach tough driving holes by aiming down the same side of OB and fading/drawing away from it dependent on what was needed. Part of my ask on this was that I played with my boss the other day and he is probably a 36+ handicap that hardly plays and has a Wilson Box set that has "mid trajectory senior shaft" that are graphite and obviously not right for his game by any stretch (he is a 45 y/o former hockey player). But, he did not think about these things whatsoever. He would just aim down the middle or at the pin. I talked a bit about course strategy and had him playing left of greens for his push fade/slice and he ended with a 102 that could have easily been a 95. Edited June 6, 2020 by juspoole THEZIPR23, Mtbryant01 and fixyurdivot 3 Quote Driver: Mavrik Sub Zero 9* (Set to 10) Ventus Blue 6X 2 Hybrid: TSI3 Hybrid Tensei Blue 80 X (17.25*) 3 Hybrid 818 H2 Hybrid Hzrdus RDX Black 6.5 (20.5*) 4 Iron - T200 4 Iron Graphite Design Tour AD IZ X Hybrid Shaft Irons 5-PW: T100-S 5 - GW KBS Tour 130 X Gap/Sand Wedge: Vokey SM6 49* SM8 54* Lob Wedge: Jaws 5 Wedge 58* DG Tour Issue Stiff Putter: Phantom 5.5 34" Pro Platinum Newport 2 35" Taylormade Tour Black Spider 34" Link to comment
Mtbryant01 Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 @juspoole I am a righty, but my natural shot shape is like yours, a fade. For the hole you referenced above, I’d start it over the trees closest to the fairway and let it fade back into the fairway. I’d also make sure that if I happen to hit it straighter than normal that I wouldn’t leave myself deep in the woods, but rather left rough at worst. The tough part is committing to the shot. You are basically hitting over trouble and praying the ball does what you want it to. I have not practiced enough with hitting draws when I need to. Usually when I am forced to hit a draw on the course I either block it or hit a drawing worm burner. I tend to just stick to my fade shot and work with what I got on each shot. GaDawg, juspoole and aerospace_ray 3 Quote Cobra Connect 5 participant G410 Plus, w/ X stiff 75 g Project X Evenflow Black shaft driver / Radspeed w/ Smoke RDX Blue 70S shaft Big Tour 3 wood/ 5 wood w/ Fujikura X F3 60S shaft 4 Hybrid w/ Project X Catalyst 80S shaft Copper MIM Tour Irons w/ KBS $ Taper Balck 120S shaft Snakebite 50, 54, and 58 wedges w/ KBS Hi-Rev 2.0 125S shaft Newport 2.5 putter MTB X golf balls RH, Alabama Link to comment
LeftyRM7 Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 This hole would be a green light for me to bomb a fade with my driver. I’d aim center fairway and let it bleed left, assuming I wouldn’t blow through the fairway if it stayed straight. If I felt driver was too long, I’d go 3w but aim at the left corner of the fairway since I tend to draw my 3w. If that was too much club, I’d play my draw off the left again but with my hybrid. Distance, shape, and how I’m playing at the time are the factors I look at. I always have a shape in mind. I know as a 20 handicap my opinion doesn’t carry much weight but I can’t swing freely, physically or mentally, without some sort of picture in my head of shape and the triggers that go with it. I have to feel something in my swing that tells me the ball is going one way. Otherwise I make an uneasy, tight swing with no idea where the ball may go. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Mtbryant01 and juspoole 2 Quote Link to comment
PMookie Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 What is the distance to the green? Distance to carry the trees on the left edge of the fairway? Distance through the fairway, down the middle, to the trees? All depends on the answer to those. If the trees are “carry-able”, I’m going right over the top with a slight fade, knowing if it fades more I’m good, and if I double-cross I’m good. If the hole is less than 400 yards, and dead center of the fairway past the trees on the left is 150 or less, I’m hitting fairway metal/hybrid/4 iron to a distance I like for my wedge into the green. aerospace_ray and Mtbryant01 2 Quote Driver: Ping G430 Max 9*, Ping Tour 70X Fairway: Ping G425 15*, Ping Tour 70X Hybrid: Ping G425 22*, Ping Tour 80X Irons: Ping i230 4-GW, TT DG X100 Wedges: SMS 50D/54V/58DModus 130 stiff, +1” Putter: EAS 1.0 Ball: Titleist 2023 AVX Link to comment
Kanoito Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 When I try to play a draw here, 8 out of 10 I'll end up overturning it and ending in the trees to the left (distances here are meters, so add 10% for yards) I now tee off with a 4i and try to leave the ball left of the bunkers for a longer approach with my usual fade. juspoole and PMookie 2 Quote SpeedZone 9* w/ Aldila Rogue Silver 60 S X2 Hot 3 Deep 14.5* w/ Aldila Tour Green 75 S JetSpeed 5W 19* w/ Matrix Velox T 69 S OR Super LS 3H 19* w/ Kuro Kage Black 80 S JPX919 Forged 4-PW w/ Modus3 105 S Vokey SM7 50/08F, 54/14F & 58/08M w/ Modus3 115 Wedge ER1 34" w/ SuperStroke Fatso 2.0 Pro / H2NO Lite Cart Bag / 3.0 / NX7 Pro LRF My reviews: MLA Putter // Titleist SM7 // PING i500 // PuttOUT Link to comment
Popular Post DaveP043 Posted June 6, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 6, 2020 I'm a decent player, at a 6 handicap. I have a straight to gentle draw pattern naturally. I do my best to play that pattern on every possible shot. I'm a 6 handicap, and I'm not good enough to hit a controlled fade AND a controlled draw. I CAN hit it straight to draw most of the time. THEZIPR23, cciciora13, Larryd3 and 9 others 12 Quote Irons Titleist T200, AMT Red stiff Rogue SubZero, GD YS-Six X T22 54 and 58 wedges 7-wood 5-wood B60 G5i putter Right handed Reston, Virginia Link to comment
PMookie Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 When I try to play a draw here, 8 out of 10 I'll end up overturning it and ending in the trees to the left (distances here are meters, so add 10% for yards) I now tee off with a 4i and try to leave the ball left of the bunkers for a longer approach with my usual fade. Yeah, I’d play my 3 hybrid, maybe 4 iron, toward the trap that would be 240 from the black tees, leaving me between 100 & 150 in.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Kanoito 1 Quote Driver: Ping G430 Max 9*, Ping Tour 70X Fairway: Ping G425 15*, Ping Tour 70X Hybrid: Ping G425 22*, Ping Tour 80X Irons: Ping i230 4-GW, TT DG X100 Wedges: SMS 50D/54V/58DModus 130 stiff, +1” Putter: EAS 1.0 Ball: Titleist 2023 AVX Link to comment
Shankster Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 I grew up playing on a cornfield course. Not many trees and most of the holes were right on top of each other.Driving accuracy didn’t matter except for 3-4 holes.The rough was just hard pan mashed down weeds, so the lies were usually thin and easy to pick clean.When I first started playing I hit only fades, mostly due to some poor instruction from my dads friend.When I picked golf up again a few years back I told myself I wanted to hit only draws. Believe it or not, all of my old swing habits from hitting fades/slices all my life were still there.I completely messed up a nice controlled fade swing to get the draw going....Now here I am looking to forget all the draw stuff I learned.For the example hole you have there if there was room off the tee I would aim for over top of those trees on the left side of the fairway and hit a high fade. If not, I’d probably try to scuttle a little hook 3/4 iron off the center of the fairway. For the second hole that Kanoito has there for us, I’d just play a 2 hybrid, it usually draws a smidge.But, whenever I get back out there I’m going Trevino style first round. Eliminate that left side of the course. Kanoito 1 Quote Link to comment
DiscipleofPenick Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 I don't worry about it. I hit draws and bombs. I'll back off and play to the corner if a hole doesn't fit my shape.Take Dead Aim Quote Take Dead Aim Driver: PXG 0211 10.5* Fairway: Titleist 917 F3 15* Hybrid: Adams Idea Pro Boxer Gold 18* Irons: MacGregor MT-86 Pro Wedges: Vokey 50/54/58 Putter: SeeMore X2 Costa del Mar Ball: Srixon Z-Star Link to comment
GolfSpy_SHARK Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 7 hours ago, juspoole said: I was curious to take other's thoughts about how they approach a hole with a slight dogleg. Holes that obviously call for a draw or fade. I tend to have a natural fade to my ball so I will usually play on the right side to let it go straight or fade over and generally take out the right side of the course as often as I can(remember I'm a lefty) Below as example: If I was a Righty, I would still be aiming at tree line to let my fade to over or if I hit it straight I'm ok. I normally wouldn't be going for the draw here. If I have to play a draw, I usually can shape it without much difficulty, but usually have trouble knowing how much it will turn over since that's not my natural shape. Also would be curious on straighter holes, what are you thoughts. Play down a certain side of the fairway to play your natural shape? Pick a spot and try to hit a straight ball? What has worked for you? I've heard a lot of instructors with differing thoughts that make sense to me. If you can't break 80 by hitting it straight, you shouldn't be trying to shape it very often. Others will say the higher percentage is to have a shape in mind (rather than straight) to take a side of the hole out of play. Jack Nicklaus used to approach tough driving holes by aiming down the same side of OB and fading/drawing away from it dependent on what was needed. Part of my ask on this was that I played with my boss the other day and he is probably a 36+ handicap that hardly plays and has a Wilson Box set that has "mid trajectory senior shaft" that are graphite and obviously not right for his game by any stretch (he is a 45 y/o former hockey player). But, he did not think about these things whatsoever. He would just aim down the middle or at the pin. I talked a bit about course strategy and had him playing left of greens for his push fade/slice and he ended with a 102 that could have easily been a 95. I also have a light fade. If I come up to a draw bias hole I’m laying up. Take aim at open area and take my medicine. Not sure if I will ever have that shot in my bag (planned shot anyway) Quote Check out my reviews: G710 Irons Official Review I MC Shaft & V Series Putter Official Review 2022 Forged Tec's Official Review I Nitron Push Cart Official Review WITB: Weapons of grass destruction (link to WITB) Traverse is filled with all this shiny metal and tracked by RadSpeed 8* - MotoreX F1 6X SIM 3W - Project X HZRDUS Green U505 Driving Iron 17* - Project X HZRDUS Black SpeedZone 4H - Project X HZRDUS Black 2022 King Forged Tec's 4-PW - KBS $ Tape 130 48 (SM8), 52 & 60 (SM7) - Nippon Modus 125 S ER2VI PROV1X #19 Are you a veteran? Check out the Veterans Golf Association (VGA) Thread! Link to comment
Josh Ross Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 I have a natural draw so for the hole mentioned above I would hit whatever club needed to set myself up with the yardage I wanted. If I have to fade it, I have no problem with doing that either. I can control either shot, the only thing keeping me from shooting lower than high 70's is inconsistent wedge play and putting. GolfSpy_SHARK 1 Quote In my Lux XV Cart Bag: Driver: RADSPEED XB PTC 10.5° Fujikura Speeder Evolution 661 VII Stiff Utility: Apex UW 17° and 19° Project X HZRDUS Smoke Black RDX 70 6.0 4 Hybrid: KING LTDx 21° KBS PGI 85 Stiff Irons: ZX5/ZX7 Project X LZ 6.0 Wedges: 2.0 49°, 53°, 57° Project X LZ 6.0 Putter: LINK.1 34" Ball: Tour (Thanks MGS for allowing me to test these!) Check out my Official MGS Reviews Below! LX5 Watch - Link Here! Tour and TourX Golf Balls - Link Here! Approach S70 Watch - Link Here! Link to comment
GolfSpy BOS Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 Generally I’ll play my straight/fade shot (or whatever shot I brought to the course that day). If I need to shape one it will depend on how well I’m striking it and what club I need to use. I’m pretty comfortable moving my 5 wood left and right. But my driver I try to keep straight or fade. GolfSpy_SHARK and sirchunksalot 2 Quote Epic Max LS 10.5 - Motore X F3 6X | Speedzone 5-wood - Ventus Blue 8S | TSi3 20* Hybrid - KBS Proto 85S SMS Pro 4-PW - Steelfiber i110S | MG3 Raw Black 50.09, 54.11, 58.11 - DG TI S200 ER2B | Pro V1x | NX9 Slope | Jones Trouper R | CaddyLite EZ v8 Link to comment
beelzeberto Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 I draw with my irons but I'm more comfortable fading with a driver. That being said, on a dog leg I always aim straight ahead or slightly with the leg because I know the curve will even out with the leg it's dogging too. Micah T and cnosil 2 Quote Sim / M2 / MG Z785 Brandon Matthews No2 - Not Made for the Tour "buy the ticket, take the ride..." Link to comment
bens197 Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 When I’m playing well it’s a straight iron and a slight cut off the driver. Straight is good, fades work and left means I’m all out of whack. Yes, I can work the ball on command but I’ll take straight all day long. PMookie 1 Quote Titleist TSi3 Fujikura Speeder NX Blue 60X TaylorMade SIM2 3 wood Fujilkura Ventus Blue 7-X Titleist U505 2 Tensei 1K Black 85 X Titleist T100 4-P Nippon Modus 3 120X PING S159 50-S 55-H 59-T DG X100 Vokey SM8 50, SM9 54 & 60 Nippon Modus 3 120s L.A.B. MEZZ Max Broom Accra 47" 79.5* Srixon Z-Star XV Currently testing the 2024 PING S159 wedges… https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/63483-testers-announced-ping-s159-wedges/ Was testing, still loving the 2023 Titleist T100 Irons 4-P https://forum.mygolfspy.com/topic/60456-titleist-t-series-irons-2023-forum-review/ Link to comment
THEZIPR23 Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 7 hours ago, DaveP043 said: I do my best to play that pattern on every possible shot. This should be the goal of all golfers. Get really good at one thing! There are very few holes where you can’t get away with playing your normal shape, no matter if it is a fade or a draw. edteergolf 1 Quote Stealth 2+ 9 (Diamana PD 60 S 45") Stealth 2+ 15 (Diamana PD 70 S 43") G425 19 (Raijin 2.0 85x) G425 22 (Raijin 2.0 85x) ZX7 5-9 (KBS C Taper S) Vokey SM9 45 10 F (KBS 610) Vokey SM9 49 08 F (KBS 610) Vokey SM9 55 08 M (KBS 610) Vokey SM9 59 04 T (KBS 610) Spider GT Splitback 34" ProV1 #23 Twitter @THEZIPR23 "One thing Golf has taught me, is that my muscles have no memory." Link to comment
FrogginBullfish Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 I think playing for your natural shot shape is generally best for most players as shaping the ball on command can be difficult for a lot of people.One thing you could do to handle for doglegs that don't fit your driver shape is to get a 3 wood or another tee club that you naturally shape the other way. This is what Jon Rahm does. His driver is his fade club and his 3 wood is his draw club.Sent from my Pixel 2 using MyGolfSpy mobile app GaDawg 1 Quote DRIVER PXG 0811XF GEN4 (10.5°) FAIRWAY WOODS PXG 0341XF GEN4 (16°) HYBRIDS PXG 0317XF GEN4 (19°), PXG 0317X GEN4 (22°) IRONS PXG 0311T GEN3 (5 - 9) WEDGES TAYLORMADE MG3 (45°, 50°, 55° TW Grind, 60° TW Grind) PUTTER PXG BATTLE READY ONE & DONE Link to comment
PlaidJacket Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 On 6/6/2020 at 3:13 PM, DaveP043 said: I'm a decent player, at a 6 handicap. I have a straight to gentle draw pattern naturally. I do my best to play that pattern on every possible shot. I'm a 6 handicap, and I'm not good enough to hit a controlled fade AND a controlled draw. I CAN hit it straight to draw most of the time. I'm pretty much in the same book and a simular player as Dave. I'm not a high ball hitter so cutting doglegs over trees is a non starter. I'm also not much of a risk taker. Like Dave I can hit a sweeping cut or hook on demand - but usually it's to get out of trouble and my success rate is probably slightly better than 50/50. I like to stick with my stock shot shape 95% of the time. And that makes for a low stress round too. DaveP043 and Kenny B 2 Quote My Sun Mountain bag currently includes: 771CSI 5i - PW and PFC Micro Tour-c 52°, 56°, 60 wedges EXS 10.5*, 929-HS FW4 16.5* Willimette w/GolfPride Contour Link to comment
tchat07 Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 For me all depends on how I am feeling that day. Sometimes I'll try to take a corner or two but on the whole I play my stock shot shape and move on. I leave the drawing and fading shots on demand to the pros.Sent from my SM-G950U using MyGolfSpy mobile app DaveP043 1 Quote Link to comment
Guests Guest Delete Posted June 9, 2020 Guests Share Posted June 9, 2020 On 6/6/2020 at 7:16 AM, juspoole said: I was curious to take other's thoughts about how they approach a hole with a slight dogleg. Holes that obviously call for a draw or fade. I tend to have a natural fade to my ball so I will usually play on the right side to let it go straight or fade over and generally take out the right side of the course as often as I can(remember I'm a lefty) Below as example: If I was a Righty, I would still be aiming at tree line to let my fade to over or if I hit it straight I'm ok. I normally wouldn't be going for the draw here. If I have to play a draw, I usually can shape it without much difficulty, but usually have trouble knowing how much it will turn over since that's not my natural shape. Also would be curious on straighter holes, what are you thoughts. Play down a certain side of the fairway to play your natural shape? Pick a spot and try to hit a straight ball? What has worked for you? I've heard a lot of instructors with differing thoughts that make sense to me. If you can't break 80 by hitting it straight, you shouldn't be trying to shape it very often. Others will say the higher percentage is to have a shape in mind (rather than straight) to take a side of the hole out of play. Jack Nicklaus used to approach tough driving holes by aiming down the same side of OB and fading/drawing away from it dependent on what was needed. Part of my ask on this was that I played with my boss the other day and he is probably a 36+ handicap that hardly plays and has a Wilson Box set that has "mid trajectory senior shaft" that are graphite and obviously not right for his game by any stretch (he is a 45 y/o former hockey player). But, he did not think about these things whatsoever. He would just aim down the middle or at the pin. I talked a bit about course strategy and had him playing left of greens for his push fade/slice and he ended with a 102 that could have easily been a 95. What I glean from your question is more about course management than shot shape. If you can reliably shape the ball to put it in the short grass/on the green then do it. However, like most golfers who can't better scores can be had my taking away big misses. Laying up, not trying to cut corners, and not trying to shape shots will a lot of times result in no worse than bogey if you keep it on the short grass. Breaking 80 is 6 greens in reg with 2 putt pars, 6 up and downs for par (chip and 1 putt), and 6 missed greens with a chip and 2 putts for bogey. All that said, I shape shots, but mostly by accident. Quote Link to comment
cnosil Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 Breaking 80 is 6 greens in reg with 2 putt pars, 6 up and downs for par (chip and 1 putt), and 6 missed greens with a chip and 2 putts for bogey. While statistically true not sure 50% up and down rate is very sustainable over time. Probably closer to 30%. DaveP043 and THEZIPR23 2 Quote Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: TM-180 Testing: Backups: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment
juspoole Posted June 9, 2020 Author Share Posted June 9, 2020 5 hours ago, TimoTe said: What I glean from your question is more about course management than shot shape. After I my post, I thought the same, but by then it was too late or I was too lazy to change the title. It seems like the majority of us are playing our go to stock shot whenever possible as we should with a few outliers. I'd be curious to see how the different levels of golfers think through a round. 0 - 5, 6 - 10, 11 - 15, etc....I wonder if you'd find that there is a lot less input from the surroundings as you get to a lower handicap. Appreciate the feedback from all. Much of this is coming from my round with my boss and really does stem from the course management conversation. den748 1 Quote Driver: Mavrik Sub Zero 9* (Set to 10) Ventus Blue 6X 2 Hybrid: TSI3 Hybrid Tensei Blue 80 X (17.25*) 3 Hybrid 818 H2 Hybrid Hzrdus RDX Black 6.5 (20.5*) 4 Iron - T200 4 Iron Graphite Design Tour AD IZ X Hybrid Shaft Irons 5-PW: T100-S 5 - GW KBS Tour 130 X Gap/Sand Wedge: Vokey SM6 49* SM8 54* Lob Wedge: Jaws 5 Wedge 58* DG Tour Issue Stiff Putter: Phantom 5.5 34" Pro Platinum Newport 2 35" Taylormade Tour Black Spider 34" Link to comment
DaveP043 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 14 minutes ago, juspoole said: I'd be curious to see how the different levels of golfers think through a round. 0 - 5, 6 - 10, 11 - 15, etc....I wonder if you'd find that there is a lot less input from the surroundings as you get to a lower handicap. So I'm a 6 handicap currently, and I'm one who tries to play my stock shot unless its an emergency of some kind. I'd say I use a lot of "input from the surroundings", I'm always evaluating where the trouble lies on a specific shot, where is the best combination of aggressive (get as close as possible) and safe (minimize "bad outcomes"). If there's OB on one side, I'm aiming at the edge of the fairway on the other side. I'd rather be in the woods than OB. If I'm not 75% to 80% certain I can clear a hazard, I'm looking to lay up. I'll play away form bunkers, or pick a club that (mostly) takes them out of play. I'm never looking for Zero Risk, that would mean hitting wedge all the way to the hole, I'm looking for closest to the hole with acceptable risk. But to evaluate risk, you need to understand the surroundings, and you need to understand your own game, your own shot distribution. And there's the reason to go with the "standard" shot pattern as much as possible, most people will have a tighter shot distribution with their "standard" shot. juspoole and cnosil 2 Quote Irons Titleist T200, AMT Red stiff Rogue SubZero, GD YS-Six X T22 54 and 58 wedges 7-wood 5-wood B60 G5i putter Right handed Reston, Virginia Link to comment
Kenny B Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 I can hit a fade better than a draw because I started golf with a slice. But either one is difficult; I mostly try to hit straight. If I have to hit one or the other because of "conditions" where I can't go straight, it's "hit and hope". However, I will never try one of those shots with a club that would put me into more trouble than where I am. For example, I wouldn't hit a club around a tree that if I hit it well, would go straight into the water. DaveP043 and silver & black 2 Quote “We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.” Link to comment
SmoothG Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 I always hit a cut, always! For this shot I'd aim at the inside corner, let it cut and make sure I used a club that wouldn't go thru the fairway. DaveP043 and juspoole 2 Quote PXG 0211 10.5* Callaway Mavrik 21* 7W Taylormade RSi1 5 Iron Taylormade RSi2 6-PW Taylormade PSI 50* Callaway Jaws 54* C Grind Wilson Staff Infinite Southside Maxfli Tour Link to comment
Guests Guest Delete Posted June 9, 2020 Guests Share Posted June 9, 2020 3 hours ago, cnosil said: While statistically true not sure 50% up and down rate is very sustainable over time. Probably closer to 30%. It is more of a mental adjustment to take a look at the yardages and plan on bogey for holes that might be just outside of GIR. For instance, a 450 yd par 4. Instead of going for the green on your second shot and making double when you miss wildly, you lay up to a yardage you know you can get up and down at least 50% of the time. Then at worst you get bogey and best is par. Quote Link to comment
cnosil Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 It is more of a mental adjustment to take a look at the yardages and plan on bogey for holes that might be just outside of GIR. For instance, a 450 yd par 4. Instead of going for the green on your second shot and making double when you miss wildly, you lay up to a yardage you know you can get up and down at least 50% of the time. Then at worst you get bogey and best is par. I understand what you are saying, but getting up and down 50% if the time isn’t a realistic expectation to have it place on yourself. You are basically hitting every chip/pitch to inside 8 feet to accoMplish that up and down percentage. DaveP043 1 Quote Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: TM-180 Testing: Backups: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment
DaveP043 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 15 minutes ago, TimoTe said: It is more of a mental adjustment to take a look at the yardages and plan on bogey for holes that might be just outside of GIR. For instance, a 450 yd par 4. Instead of going for the green on your second shot and making double when you miss wildly, you lay up to a yardage you know you can get up and down at least 50% of the time. Then at worst you get bogey and best is par. @cnosil is correct. Just a look at the PGA Tour statistics from last season, middle of the pack got up and down about 32% from 30 yards or more. From between 20 and 30 yards, the mid-level PGA Tour pro was about 55%. Laying up will NEVER get you to a 50% up and down rate, not unless you're better than most Tour pros. And for most 15 handicappers (I know, I'm picking on you a little bit), hitting the green and 2-putting for bogey isn't sure thing after a lay-up. I'm a 6-handicap, and I still take 4 to get down from 80 yards sometimes. Not that laying up is always a bad choice, but a player should be realistic about his expectations. THEZIPR23, cnosil and Micah T 3 Quote Irons Titleist T200, AMT Red stiff Rogue SubZero, GD YS-Six X T22 54 and 58 wedges 7-wood 5-wood B60 G5i putter Right handed Reston, Virginia Link to comment
Guests Guest Delete Posted June 9, 2020 Guests Share Posted June 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, DaveP043 said: @cnosil is correct. Just a look at the PGA Tour statistics from last season, middle of the pack got up and down about 32% from 30 yards or more. From between 20 and 30 yards, the mid-level PGA Tour pro was about 55%. Laying up will NEVER get you to a 50% up and down rate, not unless you're better than most Tour pros. And for most 15 handicappers (I know, I'm picking on you a little bit), hitting the green and 2-putting for bogey isn't sure thing after a lay-up. I'm a 6-handicap, and I still take 4 to get down from 80 yards sometimes. Not that laying up is always a bad choice, but a player should be realistic about his expectations. Pick away. I am totally fine with it. I have shot 7 over more than a handful of times and those were my best days. My point is just taking the pressure off of always thinking you have to go for the green to make GIR can cost you more strokes than it should. Quote Link to comment
DaveP043 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 1 minute ago, TimoTe said: Pick away. I am totally fine with it. I have shot 7 over more than a handful of times and those were my best days. My point is just taking the pressure off of always thinking you have to go for the green to make GIR can cost you more strokes than it should. I agree, shot selection has to be based on something other than "This is a par-4, I have to try to hit the green". Each shot should be evaluated based on potential risks and benefits. And every shot should be evaluated without considering how many times you've hit the ball already. The right shot selection is the one that produces the lowest score on average from this spot in to the hole. And so often its not a binary choice. Its not 3-wood in trouble vs 7-iron in the middle of the fairway. You'll hit some great 3-woods, and hit some 7-irons in the woods, every choice is among shades of gray. cnosil 1 Quote Irons Titleist T200, AMT Red stiff Rogue SubZero, GD YS-Six X T22 54 and 58 wedges 7-wood 5-wood B60 G5i putter Right handed Reston, Virginia Link to comment
den748 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 I've also wondered frequently at what level do you start considering shaping your shots. I've never thought of trying to shape until I'm like 5 handicap, but I know that is a flawed way of thinking in a lot of ways. Others have hit the nail on the head in that it is more about course management than shaping (at least for the vast majority of us). Quote Driver: Epic Flash Sub-Zero Project X HZRDUS Smoke 3 Wood: M6 UST Mamiya Proforce V2 3 Hybrid: M6 UST Mamiya Proforce V2 4 Hybrid : M4 Stock Stiff Shaft Irons: P790 (5I-AW) - 2 deg strong - Nippon Modus3 105 Gram/Stiff 60 Degree Wedge: Vokey SM7 - AMT Black/Stiff 54 Degree Wedge: RTX Zip Core Putter: Sigma G Tyne Putter Ball: ProV1x Tracked by: Link to comment
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