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New irons needed? Or just new shafts?


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Hey everyone,
I’ve had my JPX-850 Forged 4-GW for four years now. I play about once a week for the past two years and practice a few times a month. Should I be concerned about grooves being worn down?  I also found out that I should be hitting a shaft much heavier and more stiff. I currently have KBS C-Taper Stiff 90.  But recently went to a fitting where I was told I needed KBS Tour 120. 
So new clubs? Or just reshafting?

Also are the JPX 919 forged really that different?  I know they have a thinner face but the geometry and milled undercut look very similar. 

BB43B34F-E202-4C54-9C59-13F06B4CA318.jpeg

:callaway-small: Epic Flash Sub Zero 9degree. Hosel set to -1degree/Nuetral. Aftermarket 10gram front weight and 6.5 gram sliding weight set to fade. Mitsubishi  Tensei AV Blue Stiff 67 “Tipped” half inch

Diablo 5 Wood Nuetral Stock shaft

:taylormade-small: M3 3 Hybrid Mitsubishi Tensei Blue Weight set to fade

:mizuno-small: JPX 850 Forged 4-GW KBS C Taper Stiff 1/2 inch longer 

:callaway-small: Mac Daddy 4 54, 58

:odyssey-small: Works Tank Cruiser 7              40 Grams in head and counterbalanced 30 grams inside Super Stroke Fatso Grip

:srixon-small: Z-Star

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Unless you are doing the reshafting yourself The cost of the shafts, grips, and the reshafting will be pretty high and might be better to just buy used irons with the shafts you were fit to.

imo the jpx919 and better than the 850s but that’s my experience and someone else may have had a different one

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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Thanks Ricky Bobby!

:callaway-small: Epic Flash Sub Zero 9degree. Hosel set to -1degree/Nuetral. Aftermarket 10gram front weight and 6.5 gram sliding weight set to fade. Mitsubishi  Tensei AV Blue Stiff 67 “Tipped” half inch

Diablo 5 Wood Nuetral Stock shaft

:taylormade-small: M3 3 Hybrid Mitsubishi Tensei Blue Weight set to fade

:mizuno-small: JPX 850 Forged 4-GW KBS C Taper Stiff 1/2 inch longer 

:callaway-small: Mac Daddy 4 54, 58

:odyssey-small: Works Tank Cruiser 7              40 Grams in head and counterbalanced 30 grams inside Super Stroke Fatso Grip

:srixon-small: Z-Star

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On 6/6/2020 at 11:25 AM, BrownBearGolf said:

Hey everyone,
I’ve had my JPX-850 Forged 4-GW for four years now. I play about once a week for the past two years and practice a few times a month. Should I be concerned about grooves being worn down?  I also found out that I should be hitting a shaft much heavier and more stiff. I currently have KBS C-Taper Stiff 90.  But recently went to a fitting where I was told I needed KBS Tour 120. 
So new clubs? Or just reshafting?

Also are the JPX 919 forged really that different?  I know they have a thinner face but the geometry and milled undercut look very similar. 

BB43B34F-E202-4C54-9C59-13F06B4CA318.jpeg

A couple quick things first:

  1. The clubs probably have lots of life left in them - grooves and all
  2. The loft and lie might need checking
  3. If the flex of the shafts you are playing now are correct then you can add weight to them with lead tape instead of replacing them

If the grooves are wearing out then the face of the club would dip in and the depth of the grooves would be less deep in certain areas that are hit more. I doubt that is the case but you can check closely as it would be visible. 

The loft and lie can sometimes wander a bit from just being used. It is worth getting them tuned up to either the factory specs or your custom specs if they need it. It doesn't cost much and they will usually check for free.

The current shaft in your irons actually weigh closer to 100 grams before they are cut to size. And the 120 shafts do weigh 120g. Lead tape that is 1 inch wide is about 1 gram per inch. Adding 20 grams would be a 20" strip of lead tape 1 inch wide. If you decide to try it then find the balance point of the club where your club can balance on your finger. Since you are trying to make the shaft heavier then start wrapping the lead tape at the balance point and go around like a barber pole up towards the grip. You can overlap some or not at all. You can experiment with less as well. If you put it lower than the balance point then you might increase the swingweight too much. This is quick and easy to do yourself.

Another option is trying to find a cheaper shaft option that preforms like the KBS Tour at 120g. The FST shafts have 115 and 125 options under $10 per shaft. Then it costs to have it pulled and a new shaft installed.

If money isn't an issue, then go ahead and buy the best you can afford. If not, there are other ways to optimize what you have. 

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Lead tape that is 1 inch wide is about 1 gram per inch. Adding 20 grams would be a 20" strip of lead tape 1 inch wide. If you decide to try it then find the balance point of the club where your club can balance on your finger. Since you are trying to make the shaft heavier then start wrapping the lead tape at the balance point and go around like a barber pole up towards the grip. You can overlap some or not at all. You can experiment with less as well. If you put it lower than the balance point then you might increase the swingweight too much.


You mention that you wouldn’t put the 20gr below the balance point because you might impact swing weight too much. If you are putting 20gr of lead tape above the balance point aren’t you reducing the swing weight too much? Wouldn’t it be better to put 10 gr above and 10fr below to minimize changing SW? Also I believe that just adding 20gr to the shaft will impact swingweight.

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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Do not put 20gr of lead tape on the shaft, you will soften the shaft by at least a half flex, and you will be softening it in weird and different places if you concentrate the weight in the balance point (which will be at different steps in shaft for each club). I’m pretty cheap and I do bubba stuff all the time, but that won’t serve you well.

JPX919 are a pretty recent release and are pretty expensive new, so it’s up to you. The kbs tour should be a free shaft upgrade.

Alternatively, you could buy a set of used kbs tour 120s as pulls on fleaBay, they usually go w grips on for right around $100 shipped. That might be a good intermediate step, just make sure you get .355 taper tips. Then, buy a lightly used set of jpx919s with senior or ladies shafts in a few months when the prices start to slide and swap your tours in!


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

“He’s a Cinderella story. A former assistant groundskeeper about to become the Masters champion. It looks like a mirac… It’s in the hole! It’s in the hole! It’s in the hole!” — Carl Spackler

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7 hours ago, TimoTe said:

A couple quick things first:

  1. The clubs probably have lots of life left in them - grooves and all
  2. The loft and lie might need checking
  3. If the flex of the shafts you are playing now are correct then you can add weight to them with lead tape instead of replacing them

If the grooves are wearing out then the face of the club would dip in and the depth of the grooves would be less deep in certain areas that are hit more. I doubt that is the case but you can check closely as it would be visible. 

The loft and lie can sometimes wander a bit from just being used. It is worth getting them tuned up to either the factory specs or your custom specs if they need it. It doesn't cost much and they will usually check for free.

The current shaft in your irons actually weigh closer to 100 grams before they are cut to size. And the 120 shafts do weigh 120g. Lead tape that is 1 inch wide is about 1 gram per inch. Adding 20 grams would be a 20" strip of lead tape 1 inch wide. If you decide to try it then find the balance point of the club where your club can balance on your finger. Since you are trying to make the shaft heavier then start wrapping the lead tape at the balance point and go around like a barber pole up towards the grip. You can overlap some or not at all. You can experiment with less as well. If you put it lower than the balance point then you might increase the swingweight too much. This is quick and easy to do yourself.

Another option is trying to find a cheaper shaft option that preforms like the KBS Tour at 120g. The FST shafts have 115 and 125 options under $10 per shaft. Then it costs to have it pulled and a new shaft installed.

If money isn't an issue, then go ahead and buy the best you can afford. If not, there are other ways to optimize what you have. 

Thank you! Thorough and simple to understand. Great explanation. 

:callaway-small: Epic Flash Sub Zero 9degree. Hosel set to -1degree/Nuetral. Aftermarket 10gram front weight and 6.5 gram sliding weight set to fade. Mitsubishi  Tensei AV Blue Stiff 67 “Tipped” half inch

Diablo 5 Wood Nuetral Stock shaft

:taylormade-small: M3 3 Hybrid Mitsubishi Tensei Blue Weight set to fade

:mizuno-small: JPX 850 Forged 4-GW KBS C Taper Stiff 1/2 inch longer 

:callaway-small: Mac Daddy 4 54, 58

:odyssey-small: Works Tank Cruiser 7              40 Grams in head and counterbalanced 30 grams inside Super Stroke Fatso Grip

:srixon-small: Z-Star

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3 hours ago, cnosil said:

 


You mention that you wouldn’t put the 20gr below the balance point because you might impact swing weight too much. If you are putting 20gr of lead tape above the balance point aren’t you reducing the swing weight too much? Wouldn’t it be better to put 10 gr above and 10fr below to minimize changing SW? Also I believe that just adding 20gr to the shaft will impact swingweight.

 

The swingweight of a 120g shaft from a 100g shaft is going to be about 2 points higher regardless. 

Swingweight is measured with a fulcrum 14" from the butt of the club. If you put all 20g in the head of the club then it would add 10 swingweight points. Starting at the balance point and going towards the butt of the club will add the weight to just the shaft in a distributed way that would feel closest to original. 

Weight of the shaft is a timing mechanism and helps increase stability. 

It could slightly soften the flex but that is more if you put the weight in the head. Starting at the balance point will retain the most of the flex you can. 

 

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The swingweight of a 120g shaft from a 100g shaft is going to be about 2 points higher regardless. 
Swingweight is measured with a fulcrum 14" from the butt of the club. If you put all 20g in the head of the club then it would add 10 swingweight points. Starting at the balance point and going towards the butt of the club will add the weight to just the shaft in a distributed way that would feel closest to original. 
Weight of the shaft is a timing mechanism and helps increase stability. 
It could slightly soften the flex but that is more if you put the weight in the head. Starting at the balance point will retain the most of the flex you can. 
 

You would have to show me that on a swingweight scale. Yes, putting it at the ends has a bigger impact, but you would really need to add the weight at the balance point to have what you are trying to accomplish work correctly.

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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23 minutes ago, cnosil said:


You would have to show me that on a swingweight scale. Yes, putting it at the ends has a bigger impact, but you would really need to add the weight at the balance point to have what you are trying to accomplish work correctly.

If you measure 14" from the butt then you could add all the weight right there and, swingweight would not change at all but, I think that would defeat the purpose of choosing a heavier shaft. I would want to feel some of that extra heft in order for it to actually help slow me down for the tempo I was fit into (using first person for emphasis only). 

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20g is too much to add anywhere but under the grip as counterbalance. If you added all of it to the head it’s soft stepping 3x, or a flex and a half. Adding at the balance point will soften it less, but it is going to make the shaft behave and load weird. You could do it as an experiment to see about just the weight itself, but if you’ve already been fit in KBS Tour 120, a Ctaper lite with 20g of lead tape smeared on it will be nothing like that shaft.

The FST pros (stepped) are good shafts, but they also are not exactly like KBS Tours. I wish I had an EI curve to prove it, but I’ve gamed them in S and X, they are different. At $10ea w $15 shipping, you are 3/4 or more of the way to a set of KBS pulls, that’s what I would do. If you get pulls, roll them all on a flat surface first and make sure the tips aren’t bent (happens to some vintages of KBS 90s and Tours). KBS is good about replacing them if they are, just check before you mix your epoxy.

This is just my $.02 - It took me a while to believe in the value of being fit and buying what the fitter says, I have a basement full of iron sets to prove it.IMG_2181.JPG


Sent from my iPhone using MyGolfSpy

“He’s a Cinderella story. A former assistant groundskeeper about to become the Masters champion. It looks like a mirac… It’s in the hole! It’s in the hole! It’s in the hole!” — Carl Spackler

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1 question.

What is the benefit of going to the new shaft?  Did you get more distance etc.

2nd Question.

Are the improvements worth the expense?

I had R300 Steel in my Top FliteTour Irons and when I was fitted for my Wilson's Irons the recommended shaft was S400. However in reality I found every little benefit in going to the S400.

Callaway Epic Flash 9 Degree

Callaway Epic Flash 3 wood 15 Degree

Callaway Apex 21 Hybrid 19 Degree

Callaway Steelhead Pro 4-AW Irons

Cleveland 54 Degree Wedge Steel Shaft

Recoil Graphite Shafts in all Callaway

Cobra Vintage Series Stingray 40

Preferred ball - Seed 001

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