How do you judge a course?

[den748 97]

In 2020, I've been tracking my favorite courses that I've played.  I frequently am questioned on why I've put one course ahead of another.  Particularly when a course is not as "nice" as another.  For example, I have a few Virginia course ahead of some Florida courses.  So while I am no golf course architect I like to judge mine the following ways.

1. Memorable - In this is included views or holes that are easy to remember.  I loved Half Moon Bay for this reason, but everything I read about the course is that it is an uninspired layout.  That's great and all but the views make up for it big time.

2. Layout - Back to me not being a course architect but I can tell when something is different or well thought out.  Bulle Rock for example, before knowing it was designed by someone famous I could tell that it was just on another level.

3. Condition - views and layout mean more to me but I understand how many can say this is most important.  Deep thick rough, greens that roll well, sand that you can actually hit out of  this can make or break a course.   

4. Clubhouse - Having a cool facility is just a nice to have

5. Other - Price, practice facility, GPS in carts....these are all well and good and might break ties but not something I primarily look at.

 

How about all of you?   What do you look for in a course?  

[Martinjfs 15]

1. Memorable is definitely subjective but, very important to me also. Added to that is how I like the layout.

2. Maintenance of the course.

3. Playability. I have played courses that have been set up for European Tour Events and while it is a great challenge once in a while, it’s too difficult for me to enjoy on a regular basis.

4. Staff. I have avoided courses because of poor or bland service. I have many times found this at courses where the management doesn’t seem to have a good relationship with their employees.

[den748 97]

I overlooked playability.  That is a great addition.  Not a fan of courses that are overly tight (going through a housing development for instance) or don't allow you at least every now and then to grip it and rip it with the driver. 

[Larryd3 75]

How the course is maintained and overall condition.  Does it look like mgmt spends money on it so that it is the best that it can be?  

Service, how am I treated by the course staff?

Does the course setup include different tees appropriate for different level players or different lengths

Views and overall enjoyment of the environment.  

[bacchus 77]

@den748 Funny you mention your experience Bulle Rock, same thing happened with my friend 3 week ago. He played Bulle Rock for the first time and realize it was next level compared to all of the other Baltimore area public courses, then I mentioned it was a Pete Dye course and he said "That makes a lot of sense".  Bulle Rock is well thought out, and its really hard to come up with a bad or uninteresting hole there. 

- I mostly judge it on layout, which can take a variety of different forms (is it hard but fair, is it a fun course with a lot of risk/reward, is it a cool routing).  

- I think the "extras" and service at most public courses I typically ignore, I don't expect much and haven't run across anything truly spectacular at the public courses I've played. It does impact how I view a private club, the little things go a long way when you or the member you're a guest of is paying for an experience that should be much better than playing a public course.

- Conditioning is tough, I'll definitely avoid courses that are consistently poorly conditioned, but I think of it as more of a qualifier. Condition can change based on the year and weather, who's running the course,  the economy, etc.  So I typically won't just say that course is terrible, just because it isn't well conditioned.  It will usually be a "Yeah i like the layout, but its not well maintained" or "I avoid it because its not that great of a course and the conditioning always sucks".

- SLOW ROUND - Sure fire way to get me to hate a course.  Sometimes its slow golfers, but a lot of times is trying to put tee times 5 minute apart and/or being completely apathetic to marshaling the course.  I'll give a course two to three chances, but if I have multiple 5 hour rounds, then I'm probably not coming back unless management changes. 

 

[Nateyeight 52]

The condition of the course is my first, and then scenery.

Also, I don't own a range finder, so a cart with a GPS is a massive bonus for me.  

[Lakeeriegolfer 43]

Obviously a ton of factors, but I will pick my top 4. 

1.) Conditioning. A lot of courses were made a "long" time ago and its easy to see when a course has been kept up or let go. Not sharp bunkering, tee boxes are rounded, beat up cart paths.  These things all are able to be overlooked by themselves, but if you see all of it at once its obvious that they either don't care or don't have the ability to keep it up. 

2.) Price. This is a small factor, because I like supporting smaller munis when appropriate, but if you get overcharged and the course is in bad shape it just puts a sour taste in your mouth.  One thing I always wish existed was pro-rating greens fees for weather. Most places have winter rates, but they switch in Ohio around mid-April to early-May.  Sometimes we get some pretty rough weather in that time frame and paying summer rates while its 40 degrees and wind/rain is a huge drag. Also because the courses are usually not in summer shape anymore.  

3.) Friendliness of the staff.  Proshop, starter, rangers, etc.  Obviously these people are wrangling over 100 people out on the course in a busy day and people around the clubhouse, so its a tough job, but I think when you roll up and they are friendly and helpful instead of standoffish, then that makes everyone want to follow the rules a little more.  Pace of play, letting groups play through.  

4.) Carts. There are some courses in northeast Ohio that require you to take carts.  Either all the time or at certain times on weekend mornings.  I think this should be somewhat flexible.  There are situations where carts help immensely, mid-summer when everything is dry.  But in the spring Carts-On-Path happens a LOT and this is a time you should allow walking.  Its going to be slow, and if someone wants to walk they should be allowed. My brother and I are sub 8 handicaps and were forced to take a cart as a 2-some behind a line of 4-somes.  Had to pay more, and waited so long on every shot that we both played 2 balls and replayed some holes.  I don't mind slow play, but let me walk if it is obvious that waiting is going to happen. Too many rules, and I would always prefer to walk. 

[Lakeeriegolfer 43]

1 hour ago, bacchus said:

@den748 Funny you mention your experience Bulle Rock, same thing happened with my friend 3 week ago. He played Bulle Rock for the first time and realize it was next level compared to all of the other Baltimore area public courses, then I mentioned it was a Pete Dye course and he said "That makes a lot of sense".  Bulle Rock is well thought out, and its really hard to come up with a bad or uninteresting hole there. 

- I mostly judge it on layout, which can take a variety of different forms (is it hard but fair, is it a fun course with a lot of risk/reward, is it a cool routing).  

- I think the "extras" and service at most public courses I typically ignore, I don't expect much and haven't run across anything truly spectacular at the public courses I've played. It does impact how I view a private club, the little things go a long way when you or the member you're a guest of is paying for an experience that should be much better than playing a public course.

- Conditioning is tough, I'll definitely avoid courses that are consistently poorly conditioned, but I think of it as more of a qualifier. Condition can change based on the year and weather, who's running the course,  the economy, etc.  So I typically won't just say that course is terrible, just because it isn't well conditioned.  It will usually be a "Yeah i like the layout, but its not well maintained" or "I avoid it because its not that great of a course and the conditioning always sucks".

- SLOW ROUND - Sure fire way to get me to hate a course.  Sometimes its slow golfers, but a lot of times is trying to put tee times 5 minute apart and/or being completely apathetic to marshaling the course.  I'll give a course two to three chances, but if I have multiple 5 hour rounds, then I'm probably not coming back unless management changes. 

 

Slow rounds are so tricky too.  Carts really help this feel worse.  If you're waiting on every shot, with no opportunity to walk slower.  If it isn't an outing slow play is just the worst thing.  I'm used to playing under 3.5 hours if the course is open with my brother and stepdad.  Layout and conditions can definitely promote slow play.  Deeper than necessary rough on a muni, super fast greens, over the top bunkers, lots of water, etc etc. Courses can do things to make play faster.  Augusta doesn't have any real rough, why does the $30 city course need to have long grass?

[den748 97]

@Lakeeriegolfer Agree on long grass not being necessary but I hate being in rough that is uneven with dirt spots.  Whether long or short, I just like something with grass. 

Fast play is nice and 5 hour rounds are infuriating.  I'm not sure the layout should be the thing that suffers to pick up the pace.  More 4 some spacing, having a ranger, or even (and I hate this one) discouraging 2-somes can all help.   With that said though, I agree long weekend rounds would sour me on a course. 

[Lakeeriegolfer 43]

1 hour ago, Nateyeight said:

The condition of the course is my first, and then scenery.

Also, I don't own a range finder, so a cart with a GPS is a massive bonus for me.  

In reference to the rangefinder.  I do have one, but it died on hole 3 this weekend (I know, carry a backup battery. I had one in the past, used it, and never replace THAT one).  The course I was playing had stakes, at least 1 on every hole, almost never 3, and nothing on cart paths or sprinkler heads.  The sprinkler heads would be SO easy to have on every single course and I never understand why they don't.  Those, a colored line on the cart path, and a plate on every tee box.  Those things never change and can just exist forever and are not expensive.   

[JDHolmes 106]

Ease of play. I walk mostly and my favorites will have short walks between holes rather than random 500 yard traipses.

 

Condition, mostly of greens and the ability to hit a shot at the stick with some hope of it syaying on the green.

 

Hole playability. I.e. holes require "normal" shots, not superhuman (pro) level shots to score. For example, i would not like a course which required an iron to the dogleg but a 3 wood then into the green. One or two holes are fine, but many are not.

 

Courses which reward good shots, not penalize them.

 

Price is a factor for daily play. Tournament play is always more than i'd pay for daily play

 

Sent from my SM-G950U using MyGolfSpy mobile app

 

 

 

 

[The 19th Hole 372]

When I look at a course I look at several things:

1) Condition/Maintenance : If a course is always in bad condition then I have no interest in playing there. Would rather just go hit on a driving range than play a course that is in bad condition (bad tee boxes, fairways bare, unacceptably bumpy greens ect...). 

2) Price to value ratio: If the course is gorgeous and has a good layout that is challenging, but fair the price is less of a concern. Obviously i'm not going out to Spyglass or Pebble every week though. If it is a muni quality course and costs less than $80 then I'm good with it. If it is a high quality course I'm fine with anything up to about $150 on the regular. When the price goes up above that, then It is more of a once in a while course. 

3) Layout: I don't have a particular style that I like (i.e. Tight with trees, Placement, open links style ect), but I do want it to be long enough that I'm not just hitting wedges to every green. I also Hate it when courses don't let you ever hit driver (be it with  due to sharp doglegs, or hazards crossing fairways). It can be a risk reward type thing, but give me the option. If you do too many forced layups I wont be back. 

4) Location: I'll happily drive up to about 1.5 hrs to go play a course. Any longer than that and it is going to have to be a somewhat special round. 

5) Difficulty: I like to play courses that provide a challenge. So if I am looking for a new course to play and am between a couple, I might look at the course rating and slope to see which one might be more challenging. That way "IF" i play well I will feel I deserved it. 

 

 

 

 

[Mtbryant01 427]

5 hours ago, den748 said:

In 2020, I've been tracking my favorite courses that I've played.  I frequently am questioned on why I've put one course ahead of another.  Particularly when a course is not as "nice" as another.  For example, I have a few Virginia course ahead of some Florida courses.  So while I am no golf course architect I like to judge mine the following ways.

1. Memorable - In this is included views or holes that are easy to remember.  I loved Half Moon Bay for this reason, but everything I read about the course is that it is an uninspired layout.  That's great and all but the views make up for it big time.

2. Layout - Back to me not being a course architect but I can tell when something is different or well thought out.  Bulle Rock for example, before knowing it was designed by someone famous I could tell that it was just on another level.

3. Condition - views and layout mean more to me but I understand how many can say this is most important.  Deep thick rough, greens that roll well, sand that you can actually hit out of  this can make or break a course.   

4. Clubhouse - Having a cool facility is just a nice to have

5. Other - Price, practice facility, GPS in carts....these are all well and good and might break ties but not something I primarily look at.

 

How about all of you?   What do you look for in a course?  

1) Condition/Staff - I stay away from courses that are not decently kept up with. I believe this falls back on staff to make sure the course stays in great shape. I don't love playing on greens and tee boxes that are in rough shape (weeds, dirt, etc.)

2) Difficulty/Layout - I am always looking for a challenge. I like courses that provide tee boxes that can really stretch your ability. I also look for courses that aren't just straight from tee box to holes over and over. I like the challenges of the doglegs, elevation changes, avoiding water, etc.

3) Price - I am not willing to spend the big bucks unless its for a reputable/great layout/condition course. There are some courses in Alabama that I refuse to play because the price is not worth what the course provides even if I decide to walk. 

If only all the Par 3's could look like this.

[Middler 1,511]

We're all looking for the same things, we just may have different priorities. I'd say:

1) Layout-playability. I like an interesting layout with a good mix of challenging and more reasonable holes. It's nice if I can reach at least one par 5 in two, but not all of them. I'm OK with a few long or otherwise challenging par 3s, but it's nice to have at least one less so. And I like par 4's to offer a mix of approach shots, not wedges or long irons into all of them. Having a couple water holes is memorable to me. Traps should come into play on some if not all holes. I'm perfectly fine with punishing rough, that's the way it should be IMO. Same with greens, they should all present some challenges - a bunch of big, flat, featureless greens is boring - my regular course doesn't have a single flat green!

2) Condition. I look for a course to be in good condition, most of all the greens. But I don't expect a $30 for 18 muni to be in the same condition as a $300 CC. If it's a nice layout but not in good condition, I may go back and give it another try, course condition can fluctuate. But a course in great condition with a run of the mill layout won't get me back.

3) Value (not price). I'm not looking for cheap, but value. I play a $30 muni regularly, and it's stellar for the price. When I play a more expensive course I expect more, and usually get it - or I don't go back. I've played a couple world class courses at considerable expense - but they were good value as well even if I wouldn't do it regularly.

4) Practice facility & carts. As long as there's a driving range and a representative practice green, that's fine. I just want to loosen up, and have a sense of how fast the greens are - so I have a club on the first green. And while any cart will do, it is nice to have one in good condition with a touchscreen layout-GPS-food ordering features (like my regular course).

5) Staff & clubhouse. A surly staff or mediocre clubhouse detracts but I'm going to spend 4 hours give or take playing, my exposure to staff is usually minutes and the clubhouse probably about 30 minutes. So staff and clubhouse aren't going to sway my memory much...

...to me "memorable" is a combination of all the above, not an attribute in itself (unless maybe it's an ocean course). YMMV

[den748 97]

12 minutes ago, Middler said:

We're all looking for the same things, we just may have different priorities. I'd say:

1) Layout-playability. I like an interesting layout with a good mix of challenging and more reasonable holes. It's nice if I can reach at least one par 5 in two, but not all of them. I'm OK with a few long or otherwise challenging par 3s, but it's nice to have at least one less so. And I like par 4's to offer a mix of approach shots, not wedges or long irons into all of them. Having a couple water holes is memorable to me. Traps should come into play on some if not all holes.

2) Condition. I look for a course to be in good condition, most of all the greens. But I don't expect a $30 for 18 muni to be in the same condition as a $300 CC. If it's a nice layout but not in good condition, I may go back and give it another try, course condition can fluctuate. But a course in great condition with a run of the mill layout wont' get me back.

3) Value (not price). I'm not looking for cheap, but value. I play a $30 muni regularly, and it's stellar for the price. When I play a more expensive course I expect more, and usually get it - or I don't go back. I've played a couple world class courses at considerable expense - but they were good value as well even if I wouldn't do it regularly.

4) Practice facility & carts. As long as there's a driving range and a representative practice green, that's fine. And while any cart will do, it is nice to have one in good condition with a touchscreen layout-GPS-food ordering features.

5) Staff & clubhouse. A surly staff or mediocre clubhouse detracts but I'm going to spend 4 hours give or take playing, my exposure to staff is usually minutes and the clubhouse probably about 30 minutes. So staff and clubhouse aren't going to sway my memory much...

...to me "memorable" is a combination of all the above, not an attribute in itself. YMMV

Big fan of your list here.  I think I may undersold how important condition is to me.  What I mean is that I give a lot of leeway when it comes to condtion, as long as it is playable.  If a green is ripped up, or a fairway isn't really a fairway, then I have issues.  But assuming some basics are met as far as conditions, the layout and views and easy to remember holes are more important to me. 

I'm also glad you separated value from price.  This is a big point of contention between me and my friends.  I'm willing to pay a premium for a great course, them...not so much. 

[Lacassem 4,786]

1 hour ago, The 19th Hole said:

When I look at a course I look at several things:

1) Condition/Maintenance : If a course is always in bad condition then I have no interest in playing there. Would rather just go hit on a driving range than play a course that is in bad condition (bad tee boxes, fairways bare, unacceptably bumpy greens ect...). 

2) Price to value ratio: If the course is gorgeous and has a good layout that is challenging, but fair the price is less of a concern. Obviously i'm not going out to Spyglass or Pebble every week though. If it is a muni quality course and costs less than $80 then I'm good with it. If it is a high quality course I'm fine with anything up to about $150 on the regular. When the price goes up above that, then It is more of a once in a while course. 

3) Layout: I don't have a particular style that I like (i.e. Tight with trees, Placement, open links style ect), but I do want it to be long enough that I'm not just hitting wedges to every green. I also Hate it when courses don't let you ever hit driver (be it with  due to sharp doglegs, or hazards crossing fairways). It can be a risk reward type thing, but give me the option. If you do too many forced layups I wont be back. 

4) Location: I'll happily drive up to about 1.5 hrs to go play a course. Any longer than that and it is going to have to be a somewhat special round. 

5) Difficulty: I like to play courses that provide a challenge. So if I am looking for a new course to play and am between a couple, I might look at the course rating and slope to see which one might be more challenging. That way "IF" i play well I will feel I deserved it. 

 

 

 

 

This is exactly how I rank my courses. I don’t mind paying for a really nice course which is why maintenance and condition is 1st but 2nd is price for that. I compare this to 2 courses around here 1 is a pristine course but is 70 during the week and there is another course close by almost the same condition if not as good for 40.

after those 2 I don’t really care

[Tsmithjr9 1,227]

Layout is the most important. I can live with slightly subpar conditions if the course is fun to play and challenging.

Accessibility is also big, if I know it's going to be a 5+ hour round I will actively avoid that course.

As far as the rest, just don't be jerks, and have fair concession prices. Some courses around here are getting to be over $5 for a hot dog and that's ridiculous for Ohio.

Take Dead Aim

[The 19th Hole 372]

20 minutes ago, Tsmithjr9 said:

Layout is the most important. I can live with slightly subpar conditions if the course is fun to play and challenging.

Accessibility is also big, if I know it's going to be a 5+ hour round I will actively avoid that course.

As far as the rest, just don't be jerks, and have fair concession prices. Some courses around here are getting to be over $5 for a hot dog and that's ridiculous for Ohio.

Take Dead Aim
 

Ahh I forgot about accessibility. But my definition is different than yours. There are some courses in my area that are just hard to get on to unless you book over a week or sometimes 2 in advance. Like I can't just wake up in the morning and be like..."I think I want to play x course today"...that is unless I want to go and wait a couple of hours and hope for a spot to open up for a single.

 

(note: This is before the covid situation, and I have not just gone out golfing on a whim yet, so this may not be a problem like it was before currently) 

 

 

[Guest Delete]

I judge golf courses:

1. Value
2. Greens
3. Condition of course as a whole
4. Views/memorable
5. Layout

I play municipal/public golf courses and don't like to spend more than $30 a round or maybe $40 for a special occasion. Because of my price restriction it is the number one factor in picking where I play and when, usually afternoons. 

I like courses with nice greens and size matters. Larger greens with undulations are fun and challenging. Courses with boring, flat, small greens score low in my book. Condition of the greens is also a big factor. 

The biggest pet peeve of mine is crab grass and weeds. Also, brown spots score very low. I like the course to be all green of no more than two types of grass. When I am walking a fairway and see 4+ types of grass and weeds then I consider that low quality. Lastly, bunker condition is a key factor in course condition so, I look for raked bunkers with trimmed edges and a top layer of bunker sand for high scores in my book. 

One of my favorite courses is in the foothills with deer walking on the course regularly, big greens, lush grass, and a pond/lake on a few holes. I am willing to drive the 40 mins to play this course because it checks all my boxes for $25 a round. 

Layout is last on my list because I have only come across a couple courses that are just not enjoyable due to layout. Usually, in my experience, the other categories also score low if layout is poor as well. 

A bit more explanation of the grass: when I walk less than 10 yards and see Bermuda, fescue, Crab grass, and Kikuya then I consider that low quality. 

[The 19th Hole 372]

2 minutes ago, TimoTe said:

I judge golf courses:

1. Value
2. Greens
3. Condition of course as a whole
4. Views/memorable
5. Layout

I play municipal/public golf courses and don't like to spend more than $30 a round or maybe $40 for a special occasion. Because of my price restriction it is the number one factor in picking where I play and when, usually afternoons. 

I like courses with nice greens and size matters. Larger greens with undulations are fun and challenging. Courses with boring, flat, small greens score low in my book. Condition of the greens is also a big factor. 

The biggest pet peeve of mine is crab grass and weeds. Also, brown spots score very low. I like the course to be all green of no more than two types of grass. When I am walking a fairway and see 4+ types of grass and weeds then I consider that low quality. Lastly, bunker condition is a key factor in course condition so, I look for raked bunkers with trimmed edges and a top layer of bunker sand for high scores in my book. 

One of my favorite courses is in the foothills with deer walking on the course regularly, big greens, lush grass, and a pond/lake on a few holes. I am willing to drive the 40 mins to play this course because it checks all my boxes for $25 a round. 

Layout is last on my list because I have only come across a couple courses that are just not enjoyable due to layout. Usually, in my experience, the other categories also score low if layout is poor as well. 

A bit more explanation of the grass: when I walk less than 10 yards and see Bermuda, fescue, Crab grass, and Kikuya then I consider that low quality. 

 

$25 A ROUND!?!?!?! man I live in the wrong area...Many courses in this area charge that just for your cart!!! Lucky guy.