Can we really eliminate one side?

[DaveP043]

I know I posted a bit on this thread, but there was a phrase that I think might merit a separate discussion.

The OP mentioned that he "takes the right side out of play" by playing a (left-handed) fade.  I'll speak only for myself, but even playing my standard shape, I can miss on either side of my target.  I generally draw my irons slightly, so I almost always want to start the ball right of my actual target.  But I know I can block it dead straight, or I can push it, and have the ball end up to the right.  I know I can pull it, or overcook the draw, and end up left.  So my question is this, can we really take one side out of play by playing a particular shot shape?

 

 

Edited June 12, 2020 by DaveP043

[THEZIPR23]

I don't think it is possible to completely eliminate one side. I think you can eliminate the big miss to one side but you will still miss to that side. I have always been a hooker but have been moving to a fade off the tee. I have mainly eliminated the big hook but I still miss on left side. Percentage wise it has dropped about 7 points however I still miss on both sides. 

[Golfspy_CG2]

in my case, unfortunately the side I often take out of play, is the side I'm aiming for 

[CarlH]

I think most of us mortals still miss to either side...it's just a matter of degree of miss as our game improves.

[dlow206]

I am trying to eliminate hitting it into the houses on the left. 

[Larryd3]

I'm not good enough, even at a 9 index, to eliminate one side, not even close.  I can miss on both sides pretty easily.  Every once in awhile my soft draw driver turns into a big honkin high slice off the planet.     Think it just does it to piss me off.   maybe some time in the closet will get it back in line.  

[DiscipleofPenick]

I am doing the same thing, hitting draws all day, every day. (It worked for Snead) But like everyone else here, yea I'm gonna hit a push or leave one out to the right.

My conception of this plan is to stick to my guns and be able to hit the shot I am most comfortable with as often as possible. Yea, I'll miss once in awhile, or there's a hole I'll have to club down because it doesn't fit my preferred shape. But I think this plan builds confidence and I just need to miss smaller and lose shots less often.

Take Dead Aim

[heavygolffeels]

I'm going with usually, as I try to fade the ball with nearly every club. I dont miss much to the left and rarely hit a draw. The miss is either a dead straight shot when I was aiming left of target, or a push fade that ends up right of the target. So technically missing on either side of the hole, but straight or to the right side of my target line. Don't usually end up left of target unless I just really put a bad swing on it. 

[Kenny B]

24 minutes ago, scooterhd2 said:

I'm going with usually, as I try to fade the ball with nearly every club. I dont miss much to the left and rarely hit a draw. The miss is either a dead straight shot when I was aiming left of target, or a push fade that ends up right of the target. So technically missing on either side of the hole, but straight or to the right side of my target line. Don't usually end up left of target unless I just really put a bad swing on it. 

Same.  I don't miss left unless it's a poor swing, usually caused by trying to guide a tee shot.  My stock shot is straight with maybe a little fade to the right.  I can hit a push or bigger fade to the right, but I never try to hit a draw off the tee.

[silver & black]

Everything except straight and in the air is in play these days.

[Middler]

I am most proficient at the two way miss and I have proof, my last 29 rounds. It’s an adventure every time I tee off...

[ZenGolfer]

Sure you can, just look at Hogan.  Everything he did was to slow down face rotation and avoid the left side of the hole.  Just read, "Ben Hogan's Five Lessons".  Its not something that is right for most golfers, IMO but if you want to avoid hitting it left at all costs, Hogan shots you the way.

[cnosil]

I used to think that you could take a side out of the golf course but as I have learned more about the game I don't think you really do.  We all have a dispersion pattern with every club in the bag.  Based on where I aim a ball could go left or right of that line.  With driver,  I tend to hit the ball straight to fade but can hit a pull or pull hook at any time so I will tend to aim for the right side to allow for the occasional pull.  If there are too many problem areas I shift my aim left to avoid that trouble but still know it is in play as well as whatever is left of my aim line.   So instead of taking a side out of the course,  I think we tend to favor our primary ball flight.  as I mentioned most of my tee shots have been straight to fade and by knowing that I may favor the aim line for that shot but I am definitely not eliminating a side of the course.   

[DiscipleofPenick]

Sure you can, just look at Hogan.  Everything he did was to slow down face rotation and avoid the left side of the hole.  Just read, "Ben Hogan's Five Lessons".  Its not something that is right for most golfers, IMO but if you want to avoid hitting it left at all costs, Hogan shots you the way.

Sam Snead did this too, but with a draw. He set up like a pull hitter in baseball and kept everything left side. Though I don't believe there's a book on his swing, and nothing out there on Snead is as detailed as Hogan.

Take Dead Aim

[edteergolf]

Even believing that you can eliminate one side of the golf course reveals a misunderstanding of the game.  You never will so stop trying and come up with a better strategy.  

Look up the thread on shot shaping and search for the offer I made to the people in that thread.  

[ZenGolfer]

On 6/13/2020 at 7:53 AM, Tsmithjr9 said:

Sam Snead did this too, but with a draw. He set up like a pull hitter in baseball and kept everything left side. Though I don't believe there's a book on his swing, and nothing out there on Snead is as detailed as Hogan.

Take Dead Aim
 

Well, Snead didnt promote himself like Hogan did, it seems.  IMO, much of, "Hogan's secret" was that what he did was a secret back in the day and was due to the charisma that Mr Hogan had.

It is kind of funny that so many 30 handicaps who slice the ball have tried to emulate Hogan though because his swing is just about the worst thing you could do if youre a slicer.

[DiscipleofPenick]

Well, Snead didnt promote himself like Hogan did, it seems.  IMO, much of, "Hogan's secret" was that what he did was a secret back in the day and was due to the charisma that Mr Hogan had.
It is kind of funny that so many 30 handicaps who slice the ball have tried to emulate Hogan though because his swing is just about the worst thing you could do if youre a slicer.

Right!!! I'm really against teaching Hogan's swing for that reason. So many people already hit a fade/slice. Trying to swing like Hogan will only make it worse.

Take Dead Aim

[ZenGolfer]

3 hours ago, Tsmithjr9 said:

Right!!! I'm really against teaching Hogan's swing for that reason. So many people already hit a fade/slice. Trying to swing like Hogan will only make it worse.

Take Dead Aim
 

Amen.  Hogan is one of my golf heros but I wouldnt recommend anyone adopt his 5 lessons unless they were struggling with hitting pulls and hooks.  I have always found it funny that so many have struggled to find what his secret was when the game that Mr Hogan played is vastly different from the what the vast majority of golfers struggle with.

[aerospace_ray]

On 6/13/2020 at 6:53 AM, Tsmithjr9 said:

Sam Snead did this too, but with a draw. He set up like a pull hitter in baseball and kept everything left side. Though I don't believe there's a book on his swing, and nothing out there on Snead is as detailed as Hogan.

Take Dead Aim
 

Agree Snead did this two comment. However there is a Snead Book, "Sam Snead's Natural Golf" from the Dell Sport Series. I have a 1953 small paper back version of this book. Chapter IV (pg. 41....) Mr. Snead discusses his swing methodology --- much simpler discussion than Hogan's Five Lessons (one of my all time favorites) but still complete. The chapter IV of the book discusses the full swing and has a few illustrations but nothing as complete as Hogans Five Lessons. Still a good little book to add to ones collection IMO. 

[PMookie]

in my case, unfortunately the side I often take out of play, is the side I'm aiming for 

Can we try to create a repeatable swing that reduces the chance of hitting shots to one side of the course? Sure. Can we get equipment made and adjusted so that we try to take one side away? Sure. As was said, we’re still going to miss to the side we’re trying to eliminate. Even pros who play a fade can still miss with a draw/hook/double-cross. The whole idea is to establish that one’s ball will go consistently straight/draw/fade.

 

 

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[Smellis745]

7 minutes ago, PMookie said:

Can we try to create a repeatable swing that reduces the chance of hitting shots to one side of the course? Sure. Can we get equipment made and adjusted so that we try to take one side away? Sure. It as was said, we’re still going to miss to the side we’re trying to eliminate. Even pros who play a fade can still miss with a draw/hook/double-cross. The whole idea is to establish that one’s ball will go consistently straight/draw/fade.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Agree.  My natural shot shape is usually a 10-15 yard cut with driver that lessens as the loft increases.  Knowing that, I tend to line up down the left side of the fairway at a point that equals my average carry distance for the club in hand.  Usually, this works pretty good, but not always and some days are better/worse than others.

[tommc23]

I hit a fade nearly every shot I hardly ever miss to my left or hit a draw, especially with my 3w or longer irons. My mid irons and wedges I can typically hit both ways and they are where I get my left to right misses. My main miss is going for my normal shot shape and over doing it and losing it real far right.

[DiscipleofPenick]

Agree Snead did this two comment. However there is a Snead Book, "Sam Snead's Natural Golf" from the Dell Sport Series. I have a 1953 small paper back version of this book. Chapter IV (pg. 41....) Mr. Snead discusses his swing methodology --- much simpler discussion than Hogan's Five Lessons (one of my all time favorites) but still complete. The chapter IV of the book discusses the full swing and has a few illustrations but nothing as complete as Hogans Five Lessons. Still a good little book to add to ones collection IMO. 

Awesome!! Thank you for the info.

Take Dead Aim

[DiscipleofPenick]

Amen.  Hogan is one of my golf heros but I wouldnt recommend anyone adopt his 5 lessons unless they were struggling with hitting pulls and hooks.  I have always found it funny that so many have struggled to find what his secret was when the game that Mr Hogan played is vastly different from the what the vast majority of golfers struggle with.

And does the normal golfer have the commitment/time to hit 500 balls a day and ingrain those fixes into a repeating swing? Another point is body build. Why copy the swing or fundamentals of someone physically different than you? If you're not built like Hogan why copy him? I'm 5-10, relatively stocky, + extra weight since my daughter was born. It wouldn't make sense for me to copy a swing of someone with a vastly different body type like Dustin Johnson or Tony Finau. Unfortunately there's not a ton of chonky bois on tour...

Take Dead Aim

[MaxEntropy]

On 6/12/2020 at 8:38 PM, Middler said:

I am most proficient at the two way miss and I have proof, my last 29 rounds. It’s an adventure every time I tee off...

My natural shot shape is fade/slice, but in the last few years, I will pull/hook when I get too quick. I barely even know where to aim anymore...

This is actually somewhat improved so far this season (it was almost 30/40/30 at the end of last year). I also don't think this stat tells the whole story. Even though my right misses are lower, they tend to be a bigger miss (big, high slice almost guaranteed to be in trouble) whereas many of the left misses are straight pulls and, in general, can be more playable.

I wish I had the ability to eliminate one side.

[Smellis745]

@MaxEntropy I went to 18Birdies to pull my stats on fairway stats this morning.  Over my past 35 rounds, I hit the fairway 63.2% of the time, miss left 17.3% and right 19.5%.  My misses almost always go...miss left first because I get quick with the wrists and shut the face when aiming down the left side.  Next hole, I'll over correct and leave the face wide open and miss right.  Then I'll finally get it right.

 

My fw percentage was around 55% and the left right misses were in the 22/23% range.  I decided to put a true driving iron in the bag that I average 250-260 off the tee with.  It's so controlled and I don't really need more on par 4's that are in the 410 yard or less range.  Once it gets longer than that, I hit my 3w unless it's a wide-open hole with no real trouble.  That leaves me with a 8i-PW in on most holes.  This has brought my fw % up and my scores down.  I've got to work on getting up and down more consistent when missing the green and avoiding the big miss with a driver.

[ShootzGolf]

It's all about course management. If you predominantly hit a fade then it makes sense to aim for it. You may not always hit it but it is playing the odds.

[MaxEntropy]

6 minutes ago, Smellis745 said:

miss left first because I get quick with the wrists and shut the face when aiming down the left side.  Next hole, I'll over correct and leave the face wide open and miss right.  Then I'll finally get it right.

You described me...

Except the get it right part . 

I feel like I am getting closer, now that I have a better idea what getting "quick" feels like and what (it appears) I need to do to fix it.

[DaveP043]

4 minutes ago, ShootzGolf said:

It's all about course management. If you predominantly hit a fade then it makes sense to aim for it. You may not always hit it but it is playing the odds.

Of course you have to consider your normal shot shape when deciding on an intended starting line.  So a fader might aim down the left side, or even in the left rough, depending on where he wants the ball to end up.  But does that eliminate a miss in the left rough?  For me it doesn't, I still miss to both sides of my intended target.

[Middler]

5 hours ago, MaxEntropy said:

My natural shot shape is fade/slice, but in the last few years, I will pull/hook when I get too quick. I barely even know where to aim anymore...

 

4 hours ago, Smellis745 said:

My misses almost always go...miss left first because I get quick with the wrists and shut the face when aiming down the left side.  Next hole, I'll over correct and leave the face wide open and miss right.  Then I'll finally get it right.

Me too. 9 times out of 10 when I pull left or push slice right - it's because I was subconsciously trying to outdrive everyone. I have told myself to relax and just take a smooth full swing and it works better. Too bad I never listen to myself for more than a couple holes. You would think I would after making the same stupid mistake for 56 years...

This year I have hit 11 fairways in a round a couple times, and dropped to 2 fairways on my worst day. How is that possible!!!