Can't Get Driver Carry Distance Up

[gavinski91]

Just spent an hour and a half at an indoor range trying to sort out gaps in my bag. The main thing I noticed is that my distance is all over the place on my irons (high handicap on GI irons, so that's to be expected I guess) but one thing that bothered me was my lack of driver distance.

According to the system my swing speed is consistently in the 100-105 mph range, and while I admittedly struggle with making good contact, even the times I did I was rarely getting more than 220 yards of carry. The best shot I had was 106 mph club head speed, 13.8° launch angle, and only 228 yards of carry, and it felt like I hit it right on the sweet spot. Meanwhile, my best shot with my 5-iron carried 189 yards.

So, what gives? Do I need to get fitted for a new driver? (unfortunately not financially feasible right now) Is it potentially a mental thing with swinging indoors? Is it an issue with the launch monitor overestimating my swing speed? (it was the built-in-to-the-ground style with three lines of infrared sensors) Can bad form take that much off my carry distance, even if I'm generating a decent amount of clubhead speed? Are all the online charts comparing swing speed to carry distance off a ways?

[null]

2 minutes ago, gavinski91 said:

Just spent an hour and a half at an indoor range trying to sort out gaps in my bag. The main thing I noticed is that my distance is all over the place on my irons (high handicap on GI irons, so that's to be expected I guess) but one thing that bothered me was my lack of driver distance.

According to the system my swing speed is consistently in the 100-105 mph range, and while I admittedly struggle with making good contact, even the times I did I was rarely getting more than 220 yards of carry. The best shot I had was 106 mph club head speed, 13.8° launch angle, and only 228 yards of carry, and it felt like I hit it right on the sweet spot. Meanwhile, my best shot with my 5-iron carried 189 yards.

So, what gives? Do I need to get fitted for a new driver? (unfortunately not financially feasible right now) Is it potentially a mental thing with swinging indoors? Is it an issue with the launch monitor overestimating my swing speed? (it was the built-in-to-the-ground style with three lines of infrared sensors) Can bad form take that much off my carry distance, even if I'm generating a decent amount of clubhead speed? Are all the online charts comparing swing speed to carry distance off a ways?

Definitely seems like you're leaving some distance on the table with the big stick. 

To better understand the cause, we'd need to know at least your ball speed and spin numbers. If you were able to get angle of attack, that would be even better. 

My guess is spin (through angle of attack and potentially strike location) are zapping most of your distance. I'd assume you have a negative angle of attack and spin over 3200 with center strikes few and far between to be giving you 228 carry. 

 

[Guest Delete]

19 minutes ago, gavinski91 said:

Just spent an hour and a half at an indoor range trying to sort out gaps in my bag. The main thing I noticed is that my distance is all over the place on my irons (high handicap on GI irons, so that's to be expected I guess) but one thing that bothered me was my lack of driver distance.

According to the system my swing speed is consistently in the 100-105 mph range, and while I admittedly struggle with making good contact, even the times I did I was rarely getting more than 220 yards of carry. The best shot I had was 106 mph club head speed, 13.8° launch angle, and only 228 yards of carry, and it felt like I hit it right on the sweet spot. Meanwhile, my best shot with my 5-iron carried 189 yards.

So, what gives? Do I need to get fitted for a new driver? (unfortunately not financially feasible right now) Is it potentially a mental thing with swinging indoors? Is it an issue with the launch monitor overestimating my swing speed? (it was the built-in-to-the-ground style with three lines of infrared sensors) Can bad form take that much off my carry distance, even if I'm generating a decent amount of clubhead speed? Are all the online charts comparing swing speed to carry distance off a ways?

Basing your swing speed in your best 5 iron wouldn't be the consistent number. It would have been better to look at the average carry distance. 

One thing to note about big box store launch monitors is that if the efficiency is the same every time then it is only measuring ball speed and calculating club speed. 

As said already, high spin, off center strikes, and negative to neutral attack angle rob distance tremendously. 

Using a lower lofted club head like 9 degrees instead of 10.5 is usually the first choice in lowering launch and spin to the magic 12 degrees launch and 2300 spin (+/-200). It is also possible to have to low spin under 2000. 

If your club head speed is in the 105 range then you are in the lower end of X flex which could help to keep head deflection at a minimum. Head deflection can open the face and add loft which increases launch, increases spin, and lowers efficiency. 

Also, some driver heads are lower spinning: Ping LST, Taylormade M3/M5, Callaway Sub Zero. 

The best video I have found to optimize your swing is this one. It teaches you how to hit driver and all your clubs best. 

Let us know if you get any additional details about your specific launch monitor data. 

[jddaigneault]

3 hours ago, gavinski91 said:

Just spent an hour and a half at an indoor range trying to sort out gaps in my bag. The main thing I noticed is that my distance is all over the place on my irons (high handicap on GI irons, so that's to be expected I guess) but one thing that bothered me was my lack of driver distance.

According to the system my swing speed is consistently in the 100-105 mph range, and while I admittedly struggle with making good contact, even the times I did I was rarely getting more than 220 yards of carry. The best shot I had was 106 mph club head speed, 13.8° launch angle, and only 228 yards of carry, and it felt like I hit it right on the sweet spot. Meanwhile, my best shot with my 5-iron carried 189 yards.

So, what gives? Do I need to get fitted for a new driver? (unfortunately not financially feasible right now) Is it potentially a mental thing with swinging indoors? Is it an issue with the launch monitor overestimating my swing speed? (it was the built-in-to-the-ground style with three lines of infrared sensors) Can bad form take that much off my carry distance, even if I'm generating a decent amount of clubhead speed? Are all the online charts comparing swing speed to carry distance off a ways?

Based on your irons being all over the place my guess is you rarely square up the driver. Not knowing what driver/shaft you have or, as @jlukes said, your ball speed and spin numbers it is difficult to say where you’re going wrong. 

For all we know, there is a ton of back/side spin and that’s completely killing the ball speed. You could consistently be missing off the heel or toe, which would do the same thing.

I disagree with @TimoTe, I don’t think you’re at the bottom of X flex. Having your best driver speed at 106 is firmly in stiff. You need at least 4-5 more mph to get xflex, which is a lot. 

My recommendation would be to get lessons. Getting fit for a new driver while still spraying your irons all over the place would be a waste. 

[Guest Delete]

11 minutes ago, jddaigneault said:

Based on your irons being all over the place my guess is you rarely square up the driver. Not knowing what driver/shaft you have or, as @jlukes said, your ball speed and spin numbers it is difficult to say where you’re going wrong. 

For all we know, there is a ton of back/side spin and that’s completely killing the ball speed. You could consistently be missing off the heel or toe, which would do the same thing.

I disagree with @TimoTe, I don’t think you’re at the bottom of X flex. Having your best driver speed at 106 is firmly in stiff. You need at least 4-5 more mph to get xflex, which is a lot. 

My recommendation would be to get lessons. Getting fit for a new driver while still spraying your irons all over the place would be a waste. 

I was basing it off of the graphic below in a recent article. 

I find that I swing about 105-108 and stiff is too soft. 

[jddaigneault]

1 hour ago, TimoTe said:

I was basing it off of the graphic below in a recent article. 

I find that I swing about 105-108 and stiff is too soft. 

Everything I’ve come across has always said it should be higher than that. There’s a lot more to the feeling of stiffness that the flex rating. Have you tried hitting heavier stiff shafts? You could also be playing something with a bend profile that just doesn’t line up with your swing at all. 

[null]

Equipment talk is irrelevant at this point until we know the remainder of his launch conditions and swing dynamics. 

 

[RickyBobby_PR]

7 hours ago, TimoTe said:

I was basing it off of the graphic below in a recent article. 

I find that I swing about 105-108 and stiff is too soft. 

Which manufacturers stiff and what shaft profile? 

[juspoole]

14 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Which manufacturers stiff and what shaft profile? 

Exactly would need to know these items.  As a recent No Putts Given Pod, they talked about if manufacturers should have a baseline stiffness profile across the board.  I can tell you that a Project X is going to play much firmer than a Nippon 850 shaft.  

I think the cool thing with club fitting is that everyone swing is unique and could offer a very unique club make up to perform optimally. 

I have a buddy that swings his driver about 98 mph, but has such a positive AoA that his best fit club for optimal launch, spin, distance, and dispersion almost seems like a long drive champion. 8.5* of loft turned down 1 degree to 7.5* and an X stiff shaft to keep spin down and lower ball flight even more.

Many companies offer help now like the chart below or you can usually find a lot of shaft reviews online.  This could give you a start, but naturally going through a true club fitting would be best ofcourse.  Also keep in mind that this is only a small handful of shafts available.  The options are nearly endless since shafts from 5 - 8 years ago are still great offerings.

[tony@CIC]

8 hours ago, TimoTe said:

I was basing it off of the graphic below in a recent article. 

I find that I swing about 105-108 and stiff is too soft. 

Keep in mind that this is a starting point, that's why it's so important to go to a 'real' fitter. Using the graph as an example, I should be in a senior shaft, note; that was also the recommendation from the Ping online fitting tool. When I went for a complete bag fitting, one of the key changes was moving up from a senior to a regular flex shaft cut down 1/2". There was an immediate increase in distance and better dispersion.  

 

Also as a side note to the OP @gavinski91 in your post you mentioned , there is a difference between thinking you're hitting the sweet spot and actually doing it. At the range , I normally use either impact tape or foot spay to confirm. 

[Guest Delete]

43 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Which manufacturers stiff and what shaft profile? 

It is a Project X LZ 6.0 driver shaft.

I don't know what bend profile it is. 

[Guest Delete]

6 hours ago, jddaigneault said:

Everything I’ve come across has always said it should be higher than that. There’s a lot more to the feeling of stiffness that the flex rating. Have you tried hitting heavier stiff shafts? You could also be playing something with a bend profile that just doesn’t line up with your swing at all. 

I've seen that smooth tempo swingers can play a wider variety of shafts. And, quick tempo benefit from stiffer than their club speed would suggest. 

There isn't a hard fast rule. 

[juspoole]

7 minutes ago, TimoTe said:

I've seen that smooth tempo swingers can play a wider variety of shafts. And, quick tempo benefit from stiffer than their club speed would suggest. 

There isn't a hard fast rule

Agree in general and normally more aggressive tempos from the top could benefit with heavier shaft weight.

[RickyBobby_PR]

41 minutes ago, TimoTe said:

It is a Project X LZ 6.0 driver shaft.

I don't know what bend profile it is. 

That shaft has a soft middle section to help with the loading thus the name LZ (loading zone). It will play way different from a Hzrdus Black in 6.0 or a hzrdus yellow as examples.
 

flex is only relevant to the shaft model it’s stamped on. Like torque it’s measure differently by different companies and even within a shaft company different lines will be different.

 

[jddaigneault]

1 hour ago, TimoTe said:

I've seen that smooth tempo swingers can play a wider variety of shafts. And, quick tempo benefit from stiffer than their club speed would suggest. 

There isn't a hard fast rule. 

I agree completely. Swing speed is just a starting point. 

 

[ballplayer002003]

I would guess that you are not finding the middle of any of your clubs.  I would also bet that your face is wide open and possible leaning back (staying on your back leg a bit) at impact adding loft to your driver.  Are you hitting high slices that maybe start off to the right and keep going right?  Maybe take a video of your swing and post it.  It's so hard to say based on the information we have. 

[DPattGolf]

Pretty hard to get a good understanding of what might be the cause without knowing some additional factors such as spin rate, face angle and angle of attack.

Personally I not a huge fan of launch monitors that solely rely on infrared sensors in the mat. I just have not found them to be consistently accurate enough for me. I would highly suggest trying to get on something more along the lines of GCQuad, Trackman or the commercial Flightscope options. All of those should be able to provide accurate yardages with some of the additional diagnostic data points myself and others have mentions that would help us get a better understanding of what is going on with your delivery

[gavinski91]

Sounds like I need a combination of lessons and some time on a better launch monitor so I can get more info about attack angle, dynamic loft, and face angle. I'm using a Nike Vapor Speed set to 9.5° with a Fubuki Z50 stiff shaft. My miss is a pull draw, so I don't think I'm leaving the club face open - I think I'm probably getting low and heel side on the club face, but I'll hit the range with some foot spray this week and find out for sure.

[aerospace_ray]

Will never argue that one can benefit from quality lessons and watch video of ones swing. Would strongly suggest that be part of process for improving. You probably would be better with the 60 S or possibly X vs the current 50 model but as others indicate there are more numbers from launch monitor and obviously someone like an instructor looking as your swing (I.E. is your release timing early, mid or late and your setup position to ball are just a few).

Regarding the shaft, the specs for your Fubuki Z series 50 model is: 

UBUKI™ Z-Series 50

S

46.0

58

0.335

3.0

0.614

5.0

MID

Here is link to shaft specs and more comparison information: 

https://www.mca-golf.com/products/z-series

 

Good luck

[stj51]

18 hours ago, gavinski91 said:

Sounds like I need a combination of lessons and some time on a better launch monitor so I can get more info about attack angle, dynamic loft, and face angle. I'm using a Nike Vapor Speed set to 9.5° with a Fubuki Z50 stiff shaft. My miss is a pull draw, so I don't think I'm leaving the club face open - I think I'm probably getting low and heel side on the club face, but I'll hit the range with some foot spray this week and find out for sure.

I'd consider a new driver, the new technology over the past few years will add yards

[heavygolffeels]

You posted carry, speed, launch... Where is the spin? Has to be way high, like near 4000. 

[jddaigneault]

Can you post a slow mo video of your swing, from the back and side?

[gavinski91]

43 minutes ago, jddaigneault said:

Can you post a slow mo video of your swing, from the back and side?

I'm planning on hitting the range tomorrow after work, so I'll get some videos then (along with info for each video about face impact location and shot shape).

In the meantime, for other folks following along who may be having similar struggles I found these charts very enlightening (apparently generated with tests from a swing robot and a Trackman):

The graphics are about 5 years old, and there was no indication of what driver was used in the tests (I imagine newer clubs reduce the impact of off-center strikes) but it's still a helpful indicator of the effect of mishits with the driver.

[tchat07]

Interesting that high off the toe is a decrease. I often get a different flight with that strike location. Draws more vs fades so I get a little more distance.

Sent from my SM-G950U using MyGolfSpy mobile app

[gavinski91]

28 minutes ago, tchat07 said:

Interesting that high off the toe is a decrease. I often get a different flight with that strike location. Draws more vs fades so I get a little more distance.

Sent from my SM-G950U using MyGolfSpy mobile app
 

I would guess that the increased launch angle and decrease in backspin make up for the loss in ball speed, but I imagine that that isn't true for everyone's launch conditions.

[gavinski91]

On 6/15/2020 at 11:16 AM, jddaigneault said:

Can you post a slow mo video of your swing, from the back and side?

Hit up the range on my lunch break, so here's the video (back and side view included):

 I didn't realize until after I pulled out my driver at the range, after warming up, that I forgot to buy foot spray so I'll have to go back later this week to do that, but from the still frames in the video both of these shots were quite high on the club face. My initial thought from the head-on view is that moving the ball up in my stance will both fix that and help give more of a positive angle of attack, but I'm looking forward to hearing what others think.

[Firebird]

What is your angle of attack. On your irons it should be -1~3* however on your driver it should be +. I used to have the same issue, I could hit my 3 wood further than my driver (260m).

This guy can be a bit of a tosser but he does some great videos.

 

[jddaigneault]

1 hour ago, gavinski91 said:

Hit up the range on my lunch break, so here's the video (back and side view included):

 I didn't realize until after I pulled out my driver at the range, after warming up, that I forgot to buy foot spray so I'll have to go back later this week to do that, but from the still frames in the video both of these shots were quite high on the club face. My initial thought from the head-on view is that moving the ball up in my stance will both fix that and help give more of a positive angle of attack, but I'm looking forward to hearing what others think.

You can certainly work on not releasing your hands so early. That kills distance. You need to hit through the ball. YouTube has a ton of great drills you can do for this. Club should not be releasing like this. Don’t get handsy. Getting handsy too early gets you in trouble in golf and with the ladies! You’re also collapsing your back leg, sapping all kinds of power. Lessons will make a huge and pretty immediate impact. Not a difficult fix with focused practice.

[dlow206]

I am in the same swing speed range as you and I used to carry the ball like 200 to 210  at times at a 105 swing speed. The trajectory would be low (50 ft) and the spin too low, 1500 rpm. Problem was high toe, which easily turned into snap hooks. 

I cleaned up my issue and can carry it 240ish on the course. I probably can hit it a bit further on the range since I am not worried about hitting it OB.

[dlow206]

Also, not sure if is the video angle, but the ball looks like it is teed pretty high. Looks like almost all of the ball is above the tee.