Red stakes issue

[Macca9]

Question about how to play on from red staked hazard. 

Difficult to explain without a picture, but imagine a hole which runs along the exterior of the course along left hand side. 

Obviously hitting over the course boundary equals OOB, but along the boundary is a drainage ditch marked with red stakes (not aware of this at time I played my shot).

I chunk my approach left, ball bounces once, then into the ditch/hedgerow. Concerned about OOB/Lost ball I drop in place and shoot onto the green. 

Looking for the ball I spot it, spot the red stakes. I know I'm ok with current ball on the green, but it's not as close to the pin as maybe I like.

1st, can I discount my replacement shot, and take a drop where the ball entered the hazard?

And 2, how/where could I do that? The hazard travels the last 100 yards of the hole, it's impossible to drop the ball behind the boundary of the course. Do I literally move backwards along the course/hazard and drop within 2 club lengths? As this automatically puts the ball "closer to the hole" than where it enters the hazard.

This drop would have put me within 5 feet of the green, improving my chances of a) chipping her in or b) getting close. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

There is no lost ball in a penalty area. You have several options under the new rules of golf when it comes to these situations

If a penalty area is marked in yellow, a player may take stroke-and-distance relief, meaning they drop from a defined area where they played their previous shot. The player also can take back-on-the-line relief, dropping on a line that extends from the hole through the spot where the ball crossed into the penalty area, no nearer the hole. Using that option, a player can go back as far as they like. Both relief scenarios require a one-stroke penalty, and the player must drop the ball within one club-length of the chosen spot. Only those two options are available if the penalty area is marked in yellow.

If a penalty area is marked with red, the player has a third option: The player can take lateral relief within two clubs of the spot where the ball crossed the line, no nearer the hole. That drop zone possibly could extend as far as the fairway, but the player is not allowed to drop back in the same penalty area. This lateral option applies only to penalty areas marked in red. 
 

I may be wrong but since there is no provisional when it comes to penalty areas the ball you dropped and played into the green becomes your ball in play.

[Larryw]

It would seem that he played the provisional because of a potential OOB but when the original ball was found not OOB then the provisional ball becomes moot. He now has a ball in a red penalty area and can take all the reliefs allowed as stated above. But if he chooses the stroke/distance option then he must go back and execute the shot from the original spot - he can't use the provisional ball which could only apply for the OOB case (which did not occur)

Someone who knows better than myself will probably correct me if I am in error.

 

Edited June 15, 2020 by Larryw
spell/gram

[RickyBobby_PR]

8 hours ago, Larryw said:

It would seem that he played the provisional because of a potential OOB but when the original ball was found not OOB then the provisional ball becomes moot. He now has a ball in a red penalty area and can take all the reliefs allowed as stated above. But if he chooses the stroke/distance option then he must go back and execute the shot from the original spot - he can't use the provisional ball which could only apply for the OOB case (which did not occur)

Someone who knows better than myself will probably correct me if I am in error.

 

I had to go back and re-read the OP. I thought he had known there was red stakes which would not require a provisional since the golfer gets the relief from the hazard if the golfer can’t play from the spot of the found ball which would then make his dropped ball the ball in play under using stroke and distance.

This is also a situation where knowing the rules of golf would help since a lost ball or oob relief can be taken where the ball crossed if there is a local rule in place.

Since he didn’t know there was a penalty area the decision on which ball is in play is if he declared the ball he dropped as a provisional. If he was playing solo it doesn’t really matter since that round isn’t supposed to be used for hdcp. If playing with a group and he doesn’t announce it’s a provisional then it’s the ball in play. If he did then when he finds his ball the provisional is no longer in play and the found ball becomes the ball still in play and all the rules and decisions around a ball in a red stake penalty area are applicable 

[DaveP043]

I think the previous posters have this correct.  I see a couple of steps here:

If you simply dropped a ball and played it, WITHOUT saying it is a provisional, that ball is in play no matter where you find your original.

If you DID say the second is a provisional, when you find your ball in bounds, the provisional is NOT in play, you must proceed with the original.

If you are in a red Penalty Area, one of the options is to drop within two clublengths of there the ball entered the Penalty Area, no closer to the hole.  If there's no such place to drop, (I think you said you would have to be closer to the hole), you cannot use that option.  Its entirely possible that the only relief from this particular spot is to replay the shot from its original position.  But you cannot use the provisional, you have to go back and hit it again.

[Kenny B]

"Obviously hitting over the course boundary equals OOB, but along the boundary is a drainage ditch marked with red stakes (not aware of this at time I played my shot)."

I would check the local rules; should be stated on the scorecard.  Is the boundary marked with white stakes?  It's common here on some courses to place red stake penalty area along the boundary of the golf course so that a player can take a penalty drop, and a provisional is never an option.  

Of course, @DaveP043 is correct... as usual.

[Macca9]

Thanks all.

My partner was made aware of the provisional.

It was made more difficult as the ball entered the hazard essentially flag high. So it's semantics I guess.

Technically I think I could have dropped a few yards back from where it entered, but with using 2 club lengths would have put me on the fringe probably wouldn't have pleased my mate!

But as I wasn't sure about the drop, I tried to play out of the hazard .

Anyway thanks again for the answers! Keep up the good work