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ble9992

Advice and Considerations for a New Putter

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Hi All, 

This is my first post on the forums. I've been following MyGolfSpy for the last 5 years and am read pretty actively. I'm thinking about switching out of my current putter for a more updated design to get a bit more consistency. I currently game a **REALLY old** Odyssey Dual Force Rossie II. I like the mid-mallet style and have been interested in a similar putter with a similar plumber's neck style. I am particularly interested in the Tommy Armour Impact Series #3. I have hit the putter a few times and like the feel of it. According to the iPing app, I have a slightly strong arc. Wondering if anyone has any experience with that putter and other putters you'd recommend looking into.

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Driver:  Taylormade R9 Supertri TP; Miyazaki C. Kua 

Fairway wood: Mizuno F60 5W; stock shaft

Irons: 3-PW Mizuno MP-37; True Temper s-300

Wedges: Cleveland CG 15 52; Dynamic Gold Spinner;  Cleveland RTX 3.0 56; stock shaft; Cleveland CG 14 60; stock shaft

Putter: Odyssey Dual Force Rossie II

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2 hours ago, ble9992 said:

Hi All, 

This is my first post on the forums. I've been following MyGolfSpy for the last 5 years and am read pretty actively. I'm thinking about switching out of my current putter for a more updated design to get a bit more consistency. I currently game a **REALLY old** Odyssey Dual Force Rossie II. I like the mid-mallet style and have been interested in a similar putter with a similar plumber's neck style. I am particularly interested in the Tommy Armour Impact Series #3. I have hit the putter a few times and like the feel of it. According to the iPing app, I have a slightly strong arc. Wondering if anyone has any experience with that putter and other putters you'd recommend looking into.

Welcome to MGS.    I am confused about some of your statements.  You say you want plumbers neck but reference a TA #3 which is a flow neck.    The #3 is very similar to the Odyssey #7 style and is made by a bunch of manufacturers including some in plumbers neck.   You want more consistency in what areas?     Ultimately you need to find a putter that you can start on your intended line and control distance.   Unless you know what design features (hosel position, offset,  weight, lines, style) enable you to do that it is hard to recommend a putter. 

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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* with UST Proforce V2
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :srixon-small: 765 6-AW with KBS Tour shafts
Wedge:  :cleveland-small: 588 54-14, 58-12
Putter:  :odyssey-small: Ten S      Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330,   :EVNROLL: ER2.2,  

 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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On 6/14/2020 at 9:48 PM, cnosil said:

Welcome to MGS.    I am confused about some of your statements.  You say you want plumbers neck but reference a TA #3 which is a flow neck.    The #3 is very similar to the Odyssey #7 style and is made by a bunch of manufacturers including some in plumbers neck.   You want more consistency in what areas?     Ultimately you need to find a putter that you can start on your intended line and control distance.   Unless you know what design features (hosel position, offset,  weight, lines, style) enable you to do that it is hard to recommend a putter. 

Thanks for the feedback. 

First priority for me is to find a higher MOI putter that fits a slightly strong putter arc. I know the fang style and mid mallet style are primarily what I'd be interested in. However, seeing some of the larger blade style putters intrigue me. 

Apologies for not knowing much about the neck styles, but I'd rather have a neck with a smoother bend compared to some of the offset styles I've seen. I'm very slightly closed at impact according to iPing, so a bit of offset may not be the worst thing in the world. 

I am rather indifferent to the face being milled or an insert. I've primarily played inserts in the past. I'm just looking for a consistent feel and distance on mishits. 

As for hosel position, I definitely like something that is positioned closer to the heel. I used to play an Odyssey #9 a while ago, but didn't ultimately like that style as much. 

I'm looking for something that is a mid-weight. I have a slightly slower stroke and could use the weight for some enhanced feel. 


Driver:  Taylormade R9 Supertri TP; Miyazaki C. Kua 

Fairway wood: Mizuno F60 5W; stock shaft

Irons: 3-PW Mizuno MP-37; True Temper s-300

Wedges: Cleveland CG 15 52; Dynamic Gold Spinner;  Cleveland RTX 3.0 56; stock shaft; Cleveland CG 14 60; stock shaft

Putter: Odyssey Dual Force Rossie II

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Thanks for the feedback. 
First priority for me is to find a higher MOI putter that fits a slightly strong putter arc. I know the fang style and mid mallet style are primarily what I'd be interested in. However, seeing some of the larger blade style putters intrigue me. 
Apologies for not knowing much about the neck styles, but I'd rather have a neck with a smoother bend compared to some of the offset styles I've seen. I'm very slightly closed at impact according to iPing, so a bit of offset may not be the worst thing in the world. 
I am rather indifferent to the face being milled or an insert. I've primarily played inserts in the past. I'm just looking for a consistent feel and distance on mishits. 
As for hosel position, I definitely like something that is positioned closer to the heel. I used to play an Odyssey #9 a while ago, but didn't ultimately like that style as much. 
I'm looking for something that is a mid-weight. I have a slightly slower stroke and could use the weight for some enhanced feel. 


What is your typical miss?

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* with UST Proforce V2
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :srixon-small: 765 6-AW with KBS Tour shafts
Wedge:  :cleveland-small: 588 54-14, 58-12
Putter:  :odyssey-small: Ten S      Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330,   :EVNROLL: ER2.2,  

 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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I typically miss left. As a right-handed golfer, I'm slightly better with left-to-right breaking putts. 


Driver:  Taylormade R9 Supertri TP; Miyazaki C. Kua 

Fairway wood: Mizuno F60 5W; stock shaft

Irons: 3-PW Mizuno MP-37; True Temper s-300

Wedges: Cleveland CG 15 52; Dynamic Gold Spinner;  Cleveland RTX 3.0 56; stock shaft; Cleveland CG 14 60; stock shaft

Putter: Odyssey Dual Force Rossie II

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I typically miss left. As a right-handed golfer, I'm slightly better with left-to-right breaking putts. 

My suggestion would be: if you want mallet, Go a bit heavier since they didn’t have the most toe hang. If you go blade, more

heel shafted is better. Try to avoid offset. To minimize the left miss with your current stroke, those choices will help keep the putter open to the path the putter is moving along. Since the face angle at impact had about and 85% influence on ball direction you need open to move the ball to the right.

 

I miss left and recently picked up a Odyssey Ten S. Little heavier with some toe hang and it is working well. I suggest looking at mallets with the slant necks. If you like the #7 style there are options.

 

Good luck in finding something new.

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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* with UST Proforce V2
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :srixon-small: 765 6-AW with KBS Tour shafts
Wedge:  :cleveland-small: 588 54-14, 58-12
Putter:  :odyssey-small: Ten S      Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330,   :EVNROLL: ER2.2,  

 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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1 minute ago, cnosil said:


My suggestion would be: if you want mallet, Go a bit heavier since they didn’t have the most toe hang. If you go blade, more
heel shafted is better. To minimize the left miss with your current stroke, those choices will help keep the putter open to the path the putter is moving along. Since the face angle at impact had about and 85% influence on ball direction you need open to move the ball to the right.

I miss left and recently picked up a Odyssey Ten S. Little heavier with some toe hang and it is working well. I suggest looking at mallets with the slant necks. If you like the #7 style there are options.

Good luck in finding something new.

Appreciate the advice. I'll take a look at the options out there. Thanks!

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Driver:  Taylormade R9 Supertri TP; Miyazaki C. Kua 

Fairway wood: Mizuno F60 5W; stock shaft

Irons: 3-PW Mizuno MP-37; True Temper s-300

Wedges: Cleveland CG 15 52; Dynamic Gold Spinner;  Cleveland RTX 3.0 56; stock shaft; Cleveland CG 14 60; stock shaft

Putter: Odyssey Dual Force Rossie II

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Ping just released a study that pistol grips promote more closing of the putter than straight/non-taper grips, so shape is an aspect to consider as well. I personally find that head weight needs to match swing tempo and it affects distance control more than face rotation. Edel putter fitting also only considers weight as it impacts distance on mid range putts. Ping has fitting charts correlating head weight to swing tempo which the iPing app also measures (and I found to suit my stroke). 

According to the iPing app, my stroke was on the dividing line between slight and strong arc when I used my EVNROLL ER2. When I switched to an Odyssey #9, all that toe-hang brought me over into the strong arc and with my face balanced Taylormade MC72 it slid to the middle of slight arc. In my mind, the less arc (or face rotation as measured by iPing) will help with consistency on your start line and short putts. My testing on a metal yardstick this winter seemed to confirm this and I also had trouble on the course short putts with the strong arc #9, but aim could have also been an issue. (I was fit into #9 style putter using the iPing app and a visual fitting and used it on SAM Puttlab which ended up recommending 30 - 45 degree of toe hang).

My general miss is a left-pull similar to yours from the face being closed at impact. Head shape can influence aim bias, something that you line up to the right of target could help offset your left bias (works for Tiger). 

This winter I tested a face balanced TM spider, mid-mallet MC72, Cleveland HB soft 6, Odyssey 9, and EXO 7s. Head weights ranged from 345-360 grams and grip weights ranged from 60 - 120g, all had different alignment lines and the Cleveland has a sight dot (which made me aim right and push everything). The testing consisted of rolling putts off a metal ruler and lag putts (ladder drill and to specific targets) down the carpet in my hallway which probably played up to 40-50 feet since its probably about a 6 on the stimp meter. As much as I wanted a new putter, the old MC72 performed measurably better than all others it wasn't used during 2019 so feel shouldn't have altered the results (mostly used the EXO 7s which finished 2nd). 

The 345g head weight with light, oversize grip felt the most comfortable and is now the base I use for considering putters. The EXO with 360g head and 120g TOUR SNSR pistol grip felt like a croquet mallet by comparison and I didn't find grip weight to noticeable "quiet the hands" like many counter-balance advocates claim. The next consideration is milled vs insert and how the head feels with the type of ball you play... 

I've since bought a TP Collection Berwick and put a SuperStroke grip on which is a copy of the mid-mallet MC72 to get a putter with a metal face instead of the Surlyn insert for a firmer feel and see if it helps me get the ball to the hole on long lags. I am waiting on a Taylormade wrench in the mail to play with the sole weights and bring it down from 355 to 345g. 

The 7 style head was an easy adjustment for me who played a similar head shape to your Rossie, so that or other rounded mid-mallet heads that are likely to suit your eye best. I would check the head weight on the Rossie and aim for something close to that first. Definitely check out some of the 360/370g heads and see if it is something you like, but you will be more familiar with lighter putters due to how long you've been using the Odyssey. Happy hunting. 

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:cobra-small: F9 Driver 9*, 5-6 FWY at 17*

:cobra-small: Baffler 2H/5H

:ping-small: G700 4i, G410 5-UW, Glide 2.0 54, 60*

:taylormade-small: TP Berwick

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I have a strong arc putting stroke, although I working very hard on my hand motion (trying to get a little more neutral-slight arc). For years I gamed blade putters and specifically Ping ZB model putters (geared for strong arc).

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21 hours ago, BMart519 said:

Ping just released a study that pistol grips promote more closing of the putter than straight/non-taper grips, so shape is an aspect to consider as well. I personally find that head weight needs to match swing tempo and it affects distance control more than face rotation. Edel putter fitting also only considers weight as it impacts distance on mid range putts. Ping has fitting charts correlating head weight to swing tempo which the iPing app also measures (and I found to suit my stroke). 

According to the iPing app, my stroke was on the dividing line between slight and strong arc when I used my EVNROLL ER2. When I switched to an Odyssey #9, all that toe-hang brought me over into the strong arc and with my face balanced Taylormade MC72 it slid to the middle of slight arc. In my mind, the less arc (or face rotation as measured by iPing) will help with consistency on your start line and short putts. My testing on a metal yardstick this winter seemed to confirm this and I also had trouble on the course short putts with the strong arc #9, but aim could have also been an issue. (I was fit into #9 style putter using the iPing app and a visual fitting and used it on SAM Puttlab which ended up recommending 30 - 45 degree of toe hang).

My general miss is a left-pull similar to yours from the face being closed at impact. Head shape can influence aim bias, something that you line up to the right of target could help offset your left bias (works for Tiger). 

This winter I tested a face balanced TM spider, mid-mallet MC72, Cleveland HB soft 6, Odyssey 9, and EXO 7s. Head weights ranged from 345-360 grams and grip weights ranged from 60 - 120g, all had different alignment lines and the Cleveland has a sight dot (which made me aim right and push everything). The testing consisted of rolling putts off a metal ruler and lag putts (ladder drill and to specific targets) down the carpet in my hallway which probably played up to 40-50 feet since its probably about a 6 on the stimp meter. As much as I wanted a new putter, the old MC72 performed measurably better than all others it wasn't used during 2019 so feel shouldn't have altered the results (mostly used the EXO 7s which finished 2nd). 

The 345g head weight with light, oversize grip felt the most comfortable and is now the base I use for considering putters. The EXO with 360g head and 120g TOUR SNSR pistol grip felt like a croquet mallet by comparison and I didn't find grip weight to noticeable "quiet the hands" like many counter-balance advocates claim. The next consideration is milled vs insert and how the head feels with the type of ball you play... 

I've since bought a TP Collection Berwick and put a SuperStroke grip on which is a copy of the mid-mallet MC72 to get a putter with a metal face instead of the Surlyn insert for a firmer feel and see if it helps me get the ball to the hole on long lags. I am waiting on a Taylormade wrench in the mail to play with the sole weights and bring it down from 355 to 345g. 

The 7 style head was an easy adjustment for me who played a similar head shape to your Rossie, so that or other rounded mid-mallet heads that are likely to suit your eye best. I would check the head weight on the Rossie and aim for something close to that first. Definitely check out some of the 360/370g heads and see if it is something you like, but you will be more familiar with lighter putters due to how long you've been using the Odyssey. Happy hunting. 

This is such great information. Tons to take in and consider here. Absolutely will be looking into this going forward. This is a great starting point for me to jump into figuring out a bit more about putting and my own stroke. Thanks so much!!!!!


Driver:  Taylormade R9 Supertri TP; Miyazaki C. Kua 

Fairway wood: Mizuno F60 5W; stock shaft

Irons: 3-PW Mizuno MP-37; True Temper s-300

Wedges: Cleveland CG 15 52; Dynamic Gold Spinner;  Cleveland RTX 3.0 56; stock shaft; Cleveland CG 14 60; stock shaft

Putter: Odyssey Dual Force Rossie II

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20 hours ago, aerospace_ray said:

I have a strong arc putting stroke, although I working very hard on my hand motion (trying to get a little more neutral-slight arc). For years I gamed blade putters and specifically Ping ZB model putters (geared for strong arc).

Absolutely checking this out. Thanks!

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Driver:  Taylormade R9 Supertri TP; Miyazaki C. Kua 

Fairway wood: Mizuno F60 5W; stock shaft

Irons: 3-PW Mizuno MP-37; True Temper s-300

Wedges: Cleveland CG 15 52; Dynamic Gold Spinner;  Cleveland RTX 3.0 56; stock shaft; Cleveland CG 14 60; stock shaft

Putter: Odyssey Dual Force Rossie II

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Check out Booby Grace putters they put a great roll on the ball. At the beginning of the year I purchased a Night & Day, it does have a different look but puts a good roll on the ball and I've almost gotten rid of the 3 putts although every now and then one creeps in. It is one of the highest MOI putters out there and with his insert you can miss the sweet spot and still rolls the same distance. Check out some of his videos

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On 6/14/2020 at 6:59 PM, ble9992 said:

Hi All, 

This is my first post on the forums. I've been following MyGolfSpy for the last 5 years and am read pretty actively. I'm thinking about switching out of my current putter for a more updated design to get a bit more consistency. I currently game a **REALLY old** Odyssey Dual Force Rossie II. I like the mid-mallet style and have been interested in a similar putter with a similar plumber's neck style. I am particularly interested in the Tommy Armour Impact Series #3. I have hit the putter a few times and like the feel of it. According to the iPing app, I have a slightly strong arc. Wondering if anyone has any experience with that putter and other putters you'd recommend looking into.

Following up. It's been a couple of weeks since I've researched all of this. I went out and tried a bunch of different models, many included in responses to the suggestions to those who responded to the initial post.

Notes:

I found that the putters with more toe-hang ended up being a bit more consistent in feel and I definitely did not miss left very often. 

Despite MSG's article today about how looks do no impact on putter results, I did find that the flare tip neck found on the Ping ZB3, and Taylormade Spider X were confidence inspiring at address. 

I was not very impressed when I hit the Tommy Armour Impact 3 again. The feel never seemed to click with me. I also tried the new milled face version of the Impact 3 and it felt a bit too stiff to me. 

I also tested the Mizuno M Craft 3 and was expecting to get some buttery responses at contact, but I couldn't find it. 

I tried a number of Odyssey putters and was not impressed with the feel I was getting off the face and felt that the putter would not perform well from longer distance putts because of the more muted feel. 

Almost all of the Evnroll's I tried I could not get into the feel of. To me, they felt a bit too aggressive on shorter putts. 

The big winners for feel today were:

(1) Taylormade Ardmore 3 - I felt that this putter looked very clean at address, the insert felt very good, muted on shorter putts, but a bit more responsive on longer putts.

(2) Ping Sigma 2 Tyne 4 - The adjustable grip was pretty cool to see in person. For many of the same reasons I liked the feel of it compared to the Ardmore. The dual layer insert is some pretty impressive tech. It had the best feeling and consistency, though I think the Ardmore has a better value.

(3) Taylormade Spider X - I tried a used version of this putter and felt the shape was less distracting while standing over top of the ball. I think the insert on that felt a bit too muted, but it is another top contender. 

(4) Ping Heppler ZB3 - This is one of the few blades that I found that were game-able. The look at address was very clean, but the alignment dot did not seem to be particularly helpful. I thought the feel was pretty excellent, but the lack of technology on the face with respect to milling or a groove pattern had me a bit more concerned about mishits.

I would appreciate comments and further recommendations based on similar putters that I may not have considered. Thanks!


Driver:  Taylormade R9 Supertri TP; Miyazaki C. Kua 

Fairway wood: Mizuno F60 5W; stock shaft

Irons: 3-PW Mizuno MP-37; True Temper s-300

Wedges: Cleveland CG 15 52; Dynamic Gold Spinner;  Cleveland RTX 3.0 56; stock shaft; Cleveland CG 14 60; stock shaft

Putter: Odyssey Dual Force Rossie II

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I think you should look at other PING and TM models which have the same face inserts to narrow down head shape, alignment line, and head weight. The Ardmore 3 is aluminum and most Spiders use the Surlyn insert, I also prefer the aluminum especially on slower greens. All of the TP collections have aluminum inserts, you can tell the difference by looking at the ends of the grooves. The aluminum inserts have little circles for stress relief machined at the ends, the plastic inserts do not and you can stick your fingernail in the spaces between grooves. 

Both options are widely available used to save some cash once you find something in the store. I was able to get a putter from the first TP collection series (silver) for approx $100 US from a used club seller, still had the plastic on the head. 


:cobra-small: F9 Driver 9*, 5-6 FWY at 17*

:cobra-small: Baffler 2H/5H

:ping-small: G700 4i, G410 5-UW, Glide 2.0 54, 60*

:taylormade-small: TP Berwick

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On 6/30/2020 at 9:12 PM, ble9992 said:

 The big winners for feel today were:

(1) Taylormade Ardmore 3 - I felt that this putter looked very clean at address, the insert felt very good, muted on shorter putts, but a bit more responsive on longer putts.

(2) Ping Sigma 2 Tyne 4 - The adjustable grip was pretty cool to see in person. For many of the same reasons I liked the feel of it compared to the Ardmore. The dual layer insert is some pretty impressive tech. It had the best feeling and consistency, though I think the Ardmore has a better value.

(3) Taylormade Spider X - I tried a used version of this putter and felt the shape was less distracting while standing over top of the ball. I think the insert on that felt a bit too muted, but it is another top contender. 

(4) Ping Heppler ZB3 - This is one of the few blades that I found that were game-able. The look at address was very clean, but the alignment dot did not seem to be particularly helpful. I thought the feel was pretty excellent, but the lack of technology on the face with respect to milling or a groove pattern had me a bit more concerned about mishits.

I would appreciate comments and further recommendations based on similar putters that I may not have considered. Thanks!

Are you putting well with your current flatstick??  My first bit of advice would be "if it aint broke, dont fix it".  But, if that is not the case, I would suggest getting a putter that fits your "natural stroke arc".  I believe you indicated your putting stroke was "slightly strong arc".  What is the toe hang on the Rossie?  My guess is that it is closer to face balanced than your natural stroke may indicate.

If that is the case, I believe the Ping Heppler or Tyne 4 could be the best option based on the toe hang and stroke type.  Also, there are a ton of used putters that would fit this build as well.

I am a believer that your setup dictates what the proper arc of your stroke is, and so I would not look to alter your natural putting stroke by changing to a putter with less toe hang (been down that road before).

 

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