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RollingGreens

Iron distance and gapping

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After recently listening the the latest podcast about distances I can hit each iron, I have started to question the gapping between my 5,6, and 7 iron. I play callaway rogue pro irons white dynamic gold s300 shafts 105g, d2 swing weight  5-GW. My swing speed is around 80-85mph consistently.18-20 handicap losing a fair amount of strokes with my short game and long irons.  The problem i am currently having is my 5 iron peaks at 170 yards, my 6 iron at 170 yards and my 7 iron at 160 yards. I have been contemplating whether to go to a lighter shaft with my 5 and 6 iron in addition to have the lofts checked.i don’t think the answer would be to change iron flex, but I could see the reason why with my swing speed.  Open to any thoughts or opinions?


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:cobra-small: King Utility 18.5 Utility Iron

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:callaway-small: Rogue Pro Irons 5-GW

:vokey-small: SM7 54 and 58deg

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Are those carry distances or total? 
 

I would get the lofts checked, however The slower swing speed and inconsistent contact are going to work against you the longer the iron gets because you won’t be able to get good launch characteristics to get a more distinguishable gap. Lighter irons shafts could help add some speed bit probably nothing enough that’s going to help improve launch with the inconsistent contact.

Hybrids or woods may be a better fit in the 5 and maybe 6 iron spots 
 

 

 

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Driver: Titleist 917D3 9.5 with Graphite Design MAD Pro 65g S

Wood: Titleist 917F2 with UST Mamiya Helium 5F4

Hybrid: Titleist 816H1 21 with Atmos Blue 85 S

Irons: Titleist 718 AP3 4i, 718 CB 5-6, MB 7-9 with KBS $ Taper 125

Wedges: Vokey SM7 46/50/54/60 with DG s200

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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After recently listening the the latest podcast about distances I can hit each iron, I have started to question the gapping between my 5,6, and 7 iron. I play callaway rogue pro irons white dynamic gold s300 shafts 105g, d2 swing weight  5-GW. My swing speed is around 80-85mph consistently.18-20 handicap losing a fair amount of strokes with my short game and long irons.  The problem i am currently having is my 5 iron peaks at 170 yards, my 6 iron at 170 yards and my 7 iron at 160 yards. I have been contemplating whether to go to a lighter shaft with my 5 and 6 iron in addition to have the lofts checked.i don’t think the answer would be to change iron flex, but I could see the reason why with my swing speed.  Open to any thoughts or opinions?

Distance isn’t about peaks. You want to find your average carry with extremes thrown out.

As for clubs you want gapping of 10-15 yards between clubs. Look at the distance with your longest iron and your shortest iron. Put the clubs in your bag that fill those gaps. You could also start at driver and work down. Slower speed players may not have a need for 14 clubs! Just use the ones that give you appropriate gapping. 14 clubs is the max you can have; there isn’t a minimum.
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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* with UST Proforce V2
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
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               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
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I have actually used a 5 hybrid currently and in the past. But have not seen the difference I was hoping for. The hybrid is about 5 yards longer currently. I am considering starting a modified program for over speed training, in addition to taking a more aggressive approach to swinging with my longer irons. It may be beneficial if I would have included that I take a more conservative swing approach at about 75% for my swing speed. 
 

What is the overall opinion on a 5 wood vs 3 hybrid? I have been contemplating because I currently do not have a club I can hit at 200 yards. My gap problem is very notable between my 3 wood at 220, my 5 iron and 5 hybrid at 185. Really looking for a club to sit in between with 3 wood and 5 iron. 
 

I also play titleist TS3 driver at 8.5, and 3 wood at 15.5. Driver swing speed is 105 average. 


:titelist-small: TS3 8.5 Driver

:titelist-small: TS3 15.5 3Wood

:cobra-small: King Utility 18.5 Utility Iron

:titelist-small: 818 H1 23deg hybrid

:callaway-small: Rogue Pro Irons 5-GW

:vokey-small: SM7 54 and 58deg

:taylormade-small: Spider Tour Putter Black

:ping-small: Hoofer Stand Bag

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37 minutes ago, RollingGreens said:

I have actually used a 5 hybrid currently and in the past. But have not seen the difference I was hoping for. The hybrid is about 5 yards longer currently. I am considering starting a modified program for over speed training, in addition to taking a more aggressive approach to swinging with my longer irons. It may be beneficial if I would have included that I take a more conservative swing approach at about 75% for my swing speed. 
 

What is the overall opinion on a 5 wood vs 3 hybrid? I have been contemplating because I currently do not have a club I can hit at 200 yards. My gap problem is very notable between my 3 wood at 220, my 5 iron and 5 hybrid at 185. Really looking for a club to sit in between with 3 wood and 5 iron. 
 

I also play titleist TS3 driver at 8.5, and 3 wood at 15.5. Driver swing speed is 105 average. 

The key thing is to first start making consistent contact. If you can’t do that at 75% swing faster probably isn’t going to improve contact and may amplify your misses directionally. 

A hybrid that’s in the 18-21* range would probably be what fits your gap.


Driver: Titleist 917D3 9.5 with Graphite Design MAD Pro 65g S

Wood: Titleist 917F2 with UST Mamiya Helium 5F4

Hybrid: Titleist 816H1 21 with Atmos Blue 85 S

Irons: Titleist 718 AP3 4i, 718 CB 5-6, MB 7-9 with KBS $ Taper 125

Wedges: Vokey SM7 46/50/54/60 with DG s200

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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Several of us participated in a Ping long game fitting/gapping test last year.  It was fascinating to see what we were fit for.  Your question falls into that category.

I would agree that you should not be as concerned as you seem to be about overall distance when it comes to gapping.  You need to learn what your averaged carry distance is with each club and gap from there.  I'm assuming the 80-85 would be your swing speed with your middle irons.   But gapping isn't just about swing speed, the way that you deliver the club to the ball matters up to and including consistency. 

I thought I hit hybrids well until I found out what my carry distances were, switched those out to fairway woods and bang, nice 10 to 15 yard gaps in the spot formerly known as 5 iron to 3 wood.

I now have 5,7,9 wood there and they work out great for me.  Most people don't hit three wood well - you may get 220 with roll out off the tee but off the turf it may be closer to 200 and all over the place. 

 

I'd recommend you go for a gapping session. 

 

Good luck

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Definitely looking into it. Should have a better idea tomorrow night after a range session outdoors. Going to see how my swing speed compares to distance and how the carry numbers are compared to my recent averages on the course. I will say the 220 on my 3 wood is off the turf.
 

out of curiosity what did you use previously, and what 5,7,9 woods are you using currently?

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:titelist-small: TS3 8.5 Driver

:titelist-small: TS3 15.5 3Wood

:cobra-small: King Utility 18.5 Utility Iron

:titelist-small: 818 H1 23deg hybrid

:callaway-small: Rogue Pro Irons 5-GW

:vokey-small: SM7 54 and 58deg

:taylormade-small: Spider Tour Putter Black

:ping-small: Hoofer Stand Bag

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9 hours ago, RollingGreens said:

After recently listening the the latest podcast about distances I can hit each iron, I have started to question the gapping between my 5,6, and 7 iron. I play callaway rogue pro irons white dynamic gold s300 shafts 105g, d2 swing weight  5-GW. My swing speed is around 80-85mph consistently.18-20 handicap losing a fair amount of strokes with my short game and long irons.  The problem i am currently having is my 5 iron peaks at 170 yards, my 6 iron at 170 yards and my 7 iron at 160 yards. I have been contemplating whether to go to a lighter shaft with my 5 and 6 iron in addition to have the lofts checked.i don’t think the answer would be to change iron flex, but I could see the reason why with my swing speed.  Open to any thoughts or opinions?

So I ran into this scenario several years ago. First let me say, very good advice/recommendations in previous posting.

My solution, experiences were that I had my lofts checked on the 5,6,7 irons. Manufacturer specs were stated to be 3 degrees apart. The 5 and 6 were only 1.5 degrees apart. One issue. Got that resolved but found out my center strikes were like ~20 % worse with the longest iron I carried (#5).

I have never had high swing speed but I was on the lower end of S-Flex at that time. I was told I should test a hybrid and try a firm like R-flex shaft. Thats not important here as each manufacture of shafts have different ranges of flex (so what is s flex in one brand might be a firm R flex in another).

What I learned is that the #6 iron at 30 deg loft was the longest iron I could hit with center contact consistency and nice peak ball flight. My gapping started from there.

I went down to a five hybrid at 4 degrees between it and the 6 iron. After that I went 4 hybrid, again 4 degrees and then to a seven wood. I just wanted to share my experience and what I learned regarding gapping. I went for accuracy and by doing that my distance gaps fell into consistent - manageable numbers from club to club. And it was carry distance with the irons and wedges I went with vs total distance for the hybrids and fairway woods. 

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I appreciate all the advice from everyone. definitely has opened up my mind and given me Some direction. 
 

Hit the range tonight Using my launch monitor, I was consistently with 3 wood at 220 carry. 3 iron at 18.5deg which I have toyed with but never hit comfortably at 208. 4 hybrid 190, 5 iron 182, and 6 iron at 175. I wouldn’t say I was nuking everything but taking more aggressive swing approaches. 
 

not sure if it’s something I could reproduce consistently because of some lost accuracy but it was nice to see. 
 

over the next few weeks I’ll be looking to get my lofts checked. While tracking data to get some hardcore numbers. I am liking the idea of transitioning to woods or hybrids to make up the distance lost for my swing speed

 

crazy to hear from multiple people that quality control may not be the most accurate for iron lofts 

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:titelist-small: TS3 8.5 Driver

:titelist-small: TS3 15.5 3Wood

:cobra-small: King Utility 18.5 Utility Iron

:titelist-small: 818 H1 23deg hybrid

:callaway-small: Rogue Pro Irons 5-GW

:vokey-small: SM7 54 and 58deg

:taylormade-small: Spider Tour Putter Black

:ping-small: Hoofer Stand Bag

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crazy to hear from multiple people that quality control may not be the most accurate for iron lofts 


It is about tolerances. Every manufacturing process has tolerances and I would guess golf clubs would be in the +/- 1 degree. They could make the tolerances tighter,
But that generally results in additional costs.
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24 minutes ago, cnosil said:

 


It is about tolerances. Every manufacturing process has tolerances and I would guess golf clubs would be in the +/- 1 degree. They could make the tolerances tighter,
But that generally results in additional costs.

 

There are a few companies that are pretty good at getting that +/- 1 is where they fall. Most have  2-3* tolerance on both loft and lie

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Driver: Titleist 917D3 9.5 with Graphite Design MAD Pro 65g S

Wood: Titleist 917F2 with UST Mamiya Helium 5F4

Hybrid: Titleist 816H1 21 with Atmos Blue 85 S

Irons: Titleist 718 AP3 4i, 718 CB 5-6, MB 7-9 with KBS $ Taper 125

Wedges: Vokey SM7 46/50/54/60 with DG s200

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

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I guess when clubs are mass produced it is expected to have some variance regarding loft/lie specs. The problem I have is when they are way off and its me that figures it out.

That is one thing I appreciated about buying form Wishon, is I didn't have to ask, the specs came marked/checked. But I am a club fanatic and buy multiple brands.

I really wish all retail big box stores would offer to check them before you pay/walk out the door. My experience is you have to ask and I don't think I should.

The retail golf stores, pro-shops, etc could do a lot regarding their integrity and customer service if they would adopt a slogan something like---"you don't leave without quality product/service, we check specs before you buy".

Call me old fashioned but that IMO is the right way to do business for that environment.

 

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9 minutes ago, aerospace_ray said:

I guess when clubs are mass produced it is expected to have some variance regarding loft/lie specs. The problem I have is when they are way off and its me that figures it out.

That is one thing I appreciated about buying form Wishon, is I didn't have to ask, the specs came marked/checked. But I am a club fanatic and buy multiple brands.

I really wish all retail big box stores would offer to check them before you pay/walk out the door. My experience is you have to ask and I don't think I should.

The retail golf stores, pro-shops, etc could do a lot regarding their integrity and customer service if they would adopt a slogan something like---"you don't leave without quality product/service, we check specs before you buy".

Call me old fashioned but that IMO is the right way to do business for that environment.

 

Do you ask the car dealer to check the specs before you drive off the lot? What about when you order new appliances. Manufactured parts have built in tolerances in everything. Some may have tighter tolerances than other but the number of them on the nose is close to zero.

Wishon or other small club builders have the ability to do the work because they aren’t producing mass quantities and their customer base is much smaller. 
 

Guys complain that it takes 10 days to get a stock clubs ordered and received from a manufacturer. Now when thousands of heads are made and everyone has to get checked for accuracy the delivery time is going to increase as will the cost. Time to check that on every head is costly. 

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Driver: Titleist 917D3 9.5 with Graphite Design MAD Pro 65g S

Wood: Titleist 917F2 with UST Mamiya Helium 5F4

Hybrid: Titleist 816H1 21 with Atmos Blue 85 S

Irons: Titleist 718 AP3 4i, 718 CB 5-6, MB 7-9 with KBS $ Taper 125

Wedges: Vokey SM7 46/50/54/60 with DG s200

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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First good comments. I don't think asking a mechanic for specs on car is nearly the same but I understand your comment. I do speak with the mechanics/service persons to ask what expected maintenance cost I will occur at x # of miles, etc.

So I learned through a few experiences and frustration after spending $700+ for example and up on irons that were out of spec to start asking for them to be checked.

And I do think the manufacturer and sales reps/businesses should check for quality before sending out the door. What that quality constitutes is debatable I agree. I have just learned to ask questions.

"Guys complain that it takes 10 days to get a stock clubs ordered and received from a manufacturer. Now when thousands of heads are made and everyone has to get checked for accuracy the delivery time is going to increase as will the cost. Time to check that on every head is costly."

I very much understand the above ^^^ statement and I get it.

But I would counter with its more expensive for the consumer down the road to have to keep buying equipment because the original equipment they purchased did not perform to their expectations (due to lofts being off, distance gaps are incorrect, etc for one example). And from the manufacturers side, if they get a reputation for producing products consistently out of spec (golf ball manufacturers can attest to this) they risk brand damage and customers spending money with their competitors that may produce a better product or equal but in spec.

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I very much understand the above ^^^ statement and I get it.
But I would counter with its more expensive for the consumer down the road to have to keep buying equipment because the original equipment they purchased did not perform to their expectations (due to lofts being off, distance gaps are incorrect, etc for one example). And from the manufacturers side, if they get a reputation for producing products consistently out of spec (golf ball manufacturers can attest to this) they risk brand damage and customers spending money with their competitors that may produce a better product or equal but in spec.


The reality is that this isn’t how most golf consumers thing. Those of us that are club junkies yes. The average player grabs clubs plays them and then buys another set if they don’t work. While they may initially say the brand is bad, they come around when their buddy hits a set
Well or when player X on tour puts them in the bag. Or they just don’t play those clubs anymore; someone else in the consumer world will take their place.
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Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :srixon-small: 765 6-AW with KBS Tour shafts
Wedge:  :cleveland-small: 588 54-14, 58-12
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4 minutes ago, aerospace_ray said:

But I would counter with its more expensive for the consumer down the road to have to keep buying equipment because the original equipment they purchased did not perform to their expectations (due to lofts being off, distance gaps are incorrect, etc for one example). And from the manufacturers side, if they get a reputation for producing products consistently out of spec (golf ball manufacturers can attest to this) they risk brand damage and customers spending money with their competitors that may produce a better product or equal but in spec.

But they aren’t out of spec that is why there are manufacturing tolerances. Now if they are outside of manufacturing tolerance that is a different situation.

Again people aren’t asking the car dealership if the parts are outside of manufacturing tolerances.
 

The point is that every product that is manufactured has some sort of tolerance built in and will it not be the exact stated spec. 
 

If you want something to be on exact spec you will pay for it somehow someway. Either increased cost of purchase to account for the process and anything related to the time it takes to make something 100% exact or you pay for it thru some other source. Golf clubs can be bent to whatever spec a person wants within a certain range and that can be done they ordering directly from the club builder ie Wishon, sub70 or outsource to another shop like People’s clubs, local big box store or pro shop.

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Driver: Titleist 917D3 9.5 with Graphite Design MAD Pro 65g S

Wood: Titleist 917F2 with UST Mamiya Helium 5F4

Hybrid: Titleist 816H1 21 with Atmos Blue 85 S

Irons: Titleist 718 AP3 4i, 718 CB 5-6, MB 7-9 with KBS $ Taper 125

Wedges: Vokey SM7 46/50/54/60 with DG s200

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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Golf club manufacturers have stated specs and manufacturing tolerances that are allowed to vary from those specs.  At the manufacturing level, it probably doesn't make sense to measure each club head before shipment. 

 

As a golfer/consumer, I have the option of which retailer I buy from.  I choose to purchase from retailers that check lofts and lies before delivering the irons to me, the final consumer.      

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2 hours ago, aerospace_ray said:

I guess when clubs are mass produced it is expected to have some variance regarding loft/lie specs. The problem I have is when they are way off and its me that figures it out.

That is one thing I appreciated about buying form Wishon, is I didn't have to ask, the specs came marked/checked. But I am a club fanatic and buy multiple brands.

I really wish all retail big box stores would offer to check them before you pay/walk out the door. My experience is you have to ask and I don't think I should.

The retail golf stores, pro-shops, etc could do a lot regarding their integrity and customer service if they would adopt a slogan something like---"you don't leave without quality product/service, we check specs before you buy".

Call me old fashioned but that IMO is the right way to do business for that environment.

 

Most of the "big" fitters do this, (Club Champion, Truespec, etc.) but you pay for it. And we have all seen the comments about equipment being more expensive and how CC & Truespec gouge customers. I don't disagree with what you are saying however it will cost and most people would either not pay or check themselves. And as Chris said it is just not something the average golfer cares about. 

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Quality points that everyone has brought up about the variance and tolerance for club makers. Definitely have the appreciation for the smaller companies like wishon of Sub70, unfortunately I purchased some callaway irons on BST vs purchasing Sub70 like I intended which would have given me at least the consistency across my equipment. Live and learn, will take it all into context on my next set. Hopefully at the local facility they can do a bag check for a fair price. 
 


:titelist-small: TS3 8.5 Driver

:titelist-small: TS3 15.5 3Wood

:cobra-small: King Utility 18.5 Utility Iron

:titelist-small: 818 H1 23deg hybrid

:callaway-small: Rogue Pro Irons 5-GW

:vokey-small: SM7 54 and 58deg

:taylormade-small: Spider Tour Putter Black

:ping-small: Hoofer Stand Bag

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Quality points that everyone has brought up about the variance and tolerance for club makers. Definitely have the appreciation for the smaller companies like wishon of Sub70, unfortunately I purchased some callaway irons on BST vs purchasing Sub70 like I intended which would have given me at least the consistency across my equipment. Live and learn, will take it all into context on my next set. Hopefully at the local facility they can do a bag check for a fair price. 
 

Yes, local shops can do it fairly inexpensively. People that have forged clubs often times check the specs one or more times a year.
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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* with UST Proforce V2
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :srixon-small: 765 6-AW with KBS Tour shafts
Wedge:  :cleveland-small: 588 54-14, 58-12
Putter:  :odyssey-small: Ten S      Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330,   :EVNROLL: ER2.2,  

 

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