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What Would You Do - Fitting Conundrum


jwlong410

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Last Thursday I hit a TS4 at a Titleist Demo Day and the numbers were a significant improvement over my current driver (910D3). I can get the driver build from Titleist for a decent discount below retail because of connections, so there's some strong incentive to go that route.

However, the TS4 is literally the first driver I've hit in the last 8 years besides my 910D3. I have no other frame of reference. It's possible that I'd put up better numbers with a Ping, TM, Mizuno, Cobra, etc. driver than the TS4. However, if I go to get fitted it'll cost me extra $ at a minimum, or I'll pay full retail (vs. the discount through my Titleist rep).

So what would you do?

  1. Numbers are good with the TS4 - Just run with it and don't look back!
  2. Should really swing more than 1 other driver before buying.

Overall my main need/goal is to kill spin, so I'm looking at TS4, G410 LST, ST200G, etc. There's obviously fewer options there than the full pool of drivers.

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21 minutes ago, jwlong410 said:

Last Thursday I hit a TS4 at a Titleist Demo Day and the numbers were a significant improvement over my current driver (910D3). I can get the driver build from Titleist for a decent discount below retail because of connections, so there's some strong incentive to go that route.

However, the TS4 is literally the first driver I've hit in the last 8 years besides my 910D3. I have no other frame of reference. It's possible that I'd put up better numbers with a Ping, TM, Mizuno, Cobra, etc. driver than the TS4. However, if I go to get fitted it'll cost me extra $ at a minimum, or I'll pay full retail (vs. the discount through my Titleist rep).

So what would you do?

  1. Numbers are good with the TS4 - Just run with it and don't look back!
  2. Should really swing more than 1 other driver before buying.

Overall my main need/goal is to kill spin, so I'm looking at TS4, G410 LST, ST200G, etc. There's obviously fewer options there than the full pool of drivers.

Get fit is going to be the number one reply. And there are things you can learn in a fitting that are valuable. Plus you can tweak a lot of variables these days to really help your delivery of the clubface (which is what really matters for launch parameters). 
 

A 10 year gap in driver technology is huge, so I would expect improved numbers with most clubs off the shelf. If you really like the way the TS4 looks, feels, and plays and the numbers back it up then it might just be the right club for you. Any chance you can demo one for a few rounds? 

Stats: 5'4", Male, R-Handed, Moderate Tempo, Driver SS 115mph
 

Driver: Taylormade SiM Max 9*, TM Ventus Blue 6X
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29 minutes ago, jwlong410 said:

Last Thursday I hit a TS4 at a Titleist Demo Day and the numbers were a significant improvement over my current driver (910D3). I can get the driver build from Titleist for a decent discount below retail because of connections, so there's some strong incentive to go that route.

However, the TS4 is literally the first driver I've hit in the last 8 years besides my 910D3. I have no other frame of reference. It's possible that I'd put up better numbers with a Ping, TM, Mizuno, Cobra, etc. driver than the TS4. However, if I go to get fitted it'll cost me extra $ at a minimum, or I'll pay full retail (vs. the discount through my Titleist rep).

So what would you do?

  1. Numbers are good with the TS4 - Just run with it and don't look back!
  2. Should really swing more than 1 other driver before buying.

Overall my main need/goal is to kill spin, so I'm looking at TS4, G410 LST, ST200G, etc. There's obviously fewer options there than the full pool of drivers.

I would think this is going to come down to personal preference. You can get fit and remove doubt from your mind, you may or may not find a better fit than the TS4. You could also just pull the trigger on the TS4 knowing that upgrading your 10 year old driver will produce better results and be happy with the change. If it was me I would hit all of them but again that is my preference. 

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Appreciate the thoughts. Going back today to re-confirm the fitting details (also want to try my current shaft in the TS4 to see what that looks like).

I'm basically just trying to decide if the extra $200 and time for a full fitting with multiple drivers is going to be worth it. Agree the jump is going to be big regardless, just not sure if any potential marginal gain from one new driver over another is worth the extra time/cost.

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You were basically fit for the driver from a specific manufacturer. They took their lineup and found the best combination for you. You can go get another fitting and maybe find something better or maybe the titleist will come out on top.

 

What “gain” would make another fitting worthwhile to you? Is 5 more yards worth the cost? How about narrowing dispersion by 5 yards?

 

I’d probably go with the Titleist

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That’s a tough one...

I would get fit to remove all doubt from my mind knowing it’s a driver and I’d probably be playing it for another 10 years.

Logically I’d say that most any new driver will probably be an improvement, especially if spin is the big factor in your gains.

Depends on what value you put on the possibility of finding something better. For me, it would always be in the back of my mind, especially on a bad day with the TS4.


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I have my fittinf scheduled for next Saturday. Somehow, I feel my Epic is gonna hold its own vs the new drivers (after a few lessons last week).

But I'm still paying the fitting to get ease of mind. Better 100 bucks to find out than 399 wasted, right?

If I was you, I would pay for fitting to be 100% sure. Nothing worse than playing golf with doubts in your mind.

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You know you could try tru fit for 8$ or whatever that is now.

For me it’s always should be about value - are the gains worth $200 to you? For me it would have to be significant dispersion, forgiveness or length or better both.


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I have had a situation like this before. Callaway and Taylormade had 150% trade in bonuses, so i limited the options to those two or keep the current gamer. I ended up going with a SIM Max. Is there some head out there that may be a better fit for me, maybe?  But the value I got from the trade in bonus was too good to forego. 

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On 6/18/2020 at 11:20 AM, jwlong410 said:

Last Thursday I hit a TS4 at a Titleist Demo Day and the numbers were a significant improvement over my current driver (910D3). I can get the driver build from Titleist for a decent discount below retail because of connections, so there's some strong incentive to go that route.

However, the TS4 is literally the first driver I've hit in the last 8 years besides my 910D3. I have no other frame of reference. It's possible that I'd put up better numbers with a Ping, TM, Mizuno, Cobra, etc. driver than the TS4. However, if I go to get fitted it'll cost me extra $ at a minimum, or I'll pay full retail (vs. the discount through my Titleist rep).

So what would you do?

  1. Numbers are good with the TS4 - Just run with it and don't look back!
  2. Should really swing more than 1 other driver before buying.

Overall my main need/goal is to kill spin, so I'm looking at TS4, G410 LST, ST200G, etc. There's obviously fewer options there than the full pool of drivers.

If the numbers were good, why NOT go with it??? If it’s better than what you’re playing, go with it, I say.

Driver: Ping G430 Max 9*, Ping Tour 70X

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I’m curious what the numbers are with the ts4 and what they were with the 910d3.

 

 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

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21 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

I’m curious what the numbers are with the ts4 and what they were with the 910d3.

 

 

Going on Thursday (had my dates mixed up; thought it was last week) so I'll share here once I do.

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33 minutes ago, jwlong410 said:

Going on Thursday (had my dates mixed up; thought it was last week) so I'll share here once I do.

But your op said you hit the ts4 last Thursday  and the numbers were a significant improvement over your current driver. These are the numbers I’m curious about. 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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Appreciate the thoughts. Going back today to re-confirm the fitting details (also want to try my current shaft in the TS4 to see what that looks like).
I'm basically just trying to decide if the extra $200 and time for a full fitting with multiple drivers is going to be worth it. Agree the jump is going to be big regardless, just not sure if any potential marginal gain from one new driver over another is worth the extra time/cost.
I'd honestly stick with the Titleist. If the distance is good and it is reliable to where you want it makes sense. Unless you are a very competitive golfer or have a lot of disposable income I think saving money for a solid product makes a lot of sense.

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IF fitting numbers were good and the TS4 fits your eye, feels good  then I would keep things simple and go with the TS4 and save the $$. Sounds like a win win. 

IF you have any doubts and say a couple of your numbers were borderline (like dispersion and spin) then IMO you test and take your time to find a quality driver for the amount of $$ those things can cost today.

Yeah, ~10 year since last driver, its time to start another 10 yr run 😃 Good luck

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On 6/20/2020 at 1:50 PM, RickyBobby_PR said:

But your op said you hit the ts4 last Thursday  and the numbers were a significant improvement over your current driver. These are the numbers I’m curious about. 

It was 7-8 swings as he was packing up from a Titleist Thursday event. I scheduled a proper time for a fitting this coming Thursday to dial in shaft and what not. Those couple of swings were way better than my current driver based on distance and launch alone, but it wasn't a proper fitting and I was just hitting while he packed up the rest of the clubs.

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6 hours ago, jwlong410 said:

It was 7-8 swings as he was packing up from a Titleist Thursday event. I scheduled a proper time for a fitting this coming Thursday to dial in shaft and what not. Those couple of swings were way better than my current driver based on distance and launch alone, but it wasn't a proper fitting and I was just hitting while he packed up the rest of the clubs.

Do you have the numbers between the two from  that day or was your op really just saying the swings and visual results were better with the ts4

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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2 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

Do you have the numbers between the two from  that day or was your op really just saying the swings and visual results were better with the ts4

I don't remember the exact numbers, I was just peeking at the laptop between shots. I was carrying the ball ~15-20 yards further (thereabouts) for example.

Like I said - it wasn't a proper fitting experience which is why I scheduled time to go back and do it in a more official capacity. Set a true baseline, then hit the TS4 with different shaft options, etc.

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I don't remember the exact numbers, I was just peeking at the laptop between shots. I was carrying the ball ~15-20 yards further (thereabouts) for example.
Like I said - it wasn't a proper fitting experience which is why I scheduled time to go back and do it in a more official capacity. Set a true baseline, then hit the TS4 with different shaft options, etc.

Did you hit your driver on their launch monitor? Comparisons need to be made head to head. Launch monitors are great tools but unless you know exactly how they are setup you really can’t compare clubs.

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1 hour ago, cnosil said:


Did you hit your driver on their launch monitor? Comparisons need to be made head to head. Launch monitors are great tools but unless you know exactly how they are setup you really can’t compare clubs.

Yep, I agree. That's why I'm going back for a direct comparison! For what it's worth, the visual backed up the data. With my driver I was landing it short of the last green at the range (~275) and with the TS4 I was landing it on and over that same green.

All of this is why I wanted to schedule and do a proper fitting. The original swings were really just enough to make me fully commit to a proper fitting and buying a new driver (if the numbers bore out what I felt/experienced on those swings).

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15-20 yards is a big jump on distance!  If you have any doubt, spend $150 and go to a club champion and get fitted for a driver.  They are brand agnostic so they can narrow the best driver head and shaft combo.  If the gains are insignificant, then stick with the Titleist. 

Personally, I'd get fitted properly from Titleist since your are already looking at significant yardage gains.  You can apply any savings from the purchase to a shaft not on Titleist's standard offerings if it gains you more control and distance.

 

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Ok, here were the final results:

910D3: 251 Carry, 267 Total, 3378 RPM, 155.7 mph

TS4: 278 Carry, 302 Total, 2390 RPM, 160.4 mph

Overall I gained 35 yards of total distance and 27 yards of carry with the TS4. In terms of dispersion, they were comparable in terms of horizontal distribution, but the TS4 was more consistent in terms of length. All my TS4 swings were between 288 and 314 total yardage. My 910D3 ranged from 257 to 296 total yardage (carry dispersion was similar but the TS4 was rolling out further because of the less spin and better landing angle).

 

 

I also learned that I was hitting 3 clubs the same distance. My 4I, 816H2 Hybrid, and 3-Wood all carry ~225 yards. The 3-Wood rolls out to 245, the hybrid to 235, and the 4I to 233.

So I also hit a TS3 @ 13.5° as more of a driving 3W. That carried 243 and rolled out to 264 (basically the same as my current driver) so I'm probably going to look at that as a safer option off the tee and for long Par 5s. Then I'll need to decide which of the other three clubs gets pulled, but there's a distinct chance I end up with two "3 Woods" in the bag.

Edited by jwlong410

:titelist-small: TSi3 @ 9° w/ Tensei AV White 65         :titelist-small: TSi2 5W @ 14.5° w/ Tensei AV White 75

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2 hours ago, jwlong410 said:

Ok, here were the final results:

910D3: 251 Carry, 267 Total, 3378 RPM

TS4: 278 Carry, 302 Total, 2390 RPM

Overall I gained 35 yards of total distance and 27 yards of carry with the TS4. In terms of dispersion, they were comparable in terms of horizontal distribution, but the TS4 was more consistent in terms of length. All my TS4 swings were between 288 and 314 total yardage. My 910D3 ranged from 257 to 296 total yardage (carry dispersion was similar but the TS4 was rolling out further because of the less spin and better landing angle).

 

 

I also learned that I was hitting 3 clubs the same distance. My 4I, 816H2 Hybrid, and 3-Wood all carry ~225 yards. The 3-Wood rolls out to 245, the hybrid to 235, and the 4I to 233.

So I also hit a TS3 @ 13.5° as more of a driving 3W. That carried 243 and rolled out to 264 (basically the same as my current driver) so I'm probably going to look at that as a safer option off the tee and for long Par 5s. Then I'll need to decide which of the other three clubs gets pulled, but there's a distinct chance I end up with two "3 Woods" in the bag.

What was your ball speed and angle of attack with the two drivers?

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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15 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

What was your ball speed and angle of attack with the two drivers?

Angle of attack was consistently in the -1° to +2° range. I averaged 0.4° with the 910D3 and 1.2° with the TS4.

Ball speed was 155.7 with 910D3, 160.4 with TS4 (club speed was 109.5 with 910D3, 109.0 with TS4).

:titelist-small: TSi3 @ 9° w/ Tensei AV White 65         :titelist-small: TSi2 5W @ 14.5° w/ Tensei AV White 75

:taylormade-small: P790 4-7, P760 8-PW w/ Project X 6.0          :vokey-small: 50°, 56°, 60°

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Those are pretty good numbers, but for me I'd still want to know if the club was truly best suited to my game.  

Since you had a 910 still in the bag, it seems like you are stronger than most at putting aside the shiny object.  I think if you are confident in the TS4 - go for it.  However, it seems like you are questioning it a bit.  If you tackle those answers now with a fitting, you won't be looking back a year from now and still thinking what if......

Driver:  image.png.3c6db1120d888f669e07d4a8f890b3f1.pngMavrik Sub Zero 9* (Set to 10) Ventus Blue 6X

2 Hybrid: :titelist-small: TSI3 Hybrid Tensei Blue 80 X (17.25*)

3 Hybrid :titelist-small: 818 H2 Hybrid Hzrdus RDX Black 6.5 (20.5*)

4 Iron -  :titelist-small: T200 4 Iron Graphite Design Tour AD IZ X Hybrid Shaft

Irons 5-PW:  :titelist-small: T100-S 5 - GW KBS Tour 130 X

Gap/Sand Wedge:  :titelist-small: Vokey SM6 49*  SM8 54* 

Lob Wedge:  image.png.3c6db1120d888f669e07d4a8f890b3f1.pngJaws 5 Wedge 58* DG Tour Issue Stiff

Putter:   :scotty-small: Phantom 5.5 34"      Pro Platinum Newport 2 35"      Taylormade Tour Black Spider 34"

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17 minutes ago, juspoole said:

Those are pretty good numbers, but for me I'd still want to know if the club was truly best suited to my game.  

Since you had a 910 still in the bag, it seems like you are stronger than most at putting aside the shiny object.  I think if you are confident in the TS4 - go for it.  However, it seems like you are questioning it a bit.  If you tackle those answers now with a fitting, you won't be looking back a year from now and still thinking what if......

So I ended up going and hitting a few other drivers (not a fitting, but hit them all with the low spin, low launch shafts to match the EvenFlow White in the TS4). I absolutely hated the feel of the Cobra (it felt... clanky?!). The Ping G410 LST was ok, dispersion was good but it wasn't as long and it didn't have the same "buttery" feel as the TS4. The only one that made me thing about it was the ST200G. I liked that driver a lot, and the adjustability made it interesting. I had comparable distance on that one to the TS4 and a little worse dispersion. I suspect that one could be a viable option for me, but the TS4 was $150 cheaper.

The only drivers I didn't hit that I was curious about was the SIM and the Mavrik Sub Zero. That said, I'm not wure the weighting of the SIM heads make a ton of sense for my swing and the Mavrik Sub Zero would be $150 more than the TS4. So all in all, I feel pretty good about moving forward at this point. Getting comparable/better numbers for $349 instead of $499 makes it a much easier decision for me.

:titelist-small: TSi3 @ 9° w/ Tensei AV White 65         :titelist-small: TSi2 5W @ 14.5° w/ Tensei AV White 75

:taylormade-small: P790 4-7, P760 8-PW w/ Project X 6.0          :vokey-small: 50°, 56°, 60°

:scotty-small: Pro Platinum Newport Mid-Slant          :titelist-small: Hybrid 14 Stand Bag          :titelist-small: ProV1

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4 minutes ago, jwlong410 said:

So all in all, I feel pretty good about moving forward at this point. Getting comparable/better numbers for $349 instead of $499 makes it a much easier decision for me.

Certainly understand.  I usually go with pre owned to save a few bucks myself.  I had the TS3 for a while and it was fair, but always seemed to line up a bit closed to my eye.  Hitting the MavRik SZ better than I have anything ever so far.  Part of that is the Ventus shaft as well to be fair.

Best of luck with the TS4!

Driver:  image.png.3c6db1120d888f669e07d4a8f890b3f1.pngMavrik Sub Zero 9* (Set to 10) Ventus Blue 6X

2 Hybrid: :titelist-small: TSI3 Hybrid Tensei Blue 80 X (17.25*)

3 Hybrid :titelist-small: 818 H2 Hybrid Hzrdus RDX Black 6.5 (20.5*)

4 Iron -  :titelist-small: T200 4 Iron Graphite Design Tour AD IZ X Hybrid Shaft

Irons 5-PW:  :titelist-small: T100-S 5 - GW KBS Tour 130 X

Gap/Sand Wedge:  :titelist-small: Vokey SM6 49*  SM8 54* 

Lob Wedge:  image.png.3c6db1120d888f669e07d4a8f890b3f1.pngJaws 5 Wedge 58* DG Tour Issue Stiff

Putter:   :scotty-small: Phantom 5.5 34"      Pro Platinum Newport 2 35"      Taylormade Tour Black Spider 34"

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12 hours ago, jwlong410 said:

Angle of attack was consistently in the -1° to +2° range. I averaged 0.4° with the 910D3 and 1.2° with the TS4.

Ball speed was 155.7 with 910D3, 160.4 with TS4 (club speed was 109.5 with 910D3, 109.0 with TS4).

So the distance gains came from several factors. Improved ball speed and launch characteristics especially spin. That’s a good improvement 

Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4

Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white

Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid

Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120

Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60

Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1

Ball: Titleist Prov1

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2 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

So the distance gains came from several factors. Improved ball speed and launch characteristics especially spin. That’s a good improvement 

Killing spin was a huge part of it, probably the majority of the gains. I do think that I was getting better ball speed and flights on off-center hits. When I caught it really good, the TS4 was maybe ~6% better than my current driver. When I mishit it, it was maybe ~15% better (from spin reduction and better ball speed on off-center hits).

 

2 hours ago, juspoole said:

Certainly understand.  I usually go with pre owned to save a few bucks myself.  I had the TS3 for a while and it was fair, but always seemed to line up a bit closed to my eye.  Hitting the MavRik SZ better than I have anything ever so far.  Part of that is the Ventus shaft as well to be fair.

Best of luck with the TS4!

The Evenflow White shaft was a huge part of it, I think. I hit it with a bunch of shafts and the Evenflow felt incredible and the ball came off like a rocket every time. I wouldn't have even consider buying it with the HZRDUS or Diamana shafts I hit it with. It's amazing how the right shaft/head combination can make such a massive difference.

:titelist-small: TSi3 @ 9° w/ Tensei AV White 65         :titelist-small: TSi2 5W @ 14.5° w/ Tensei AV White 75

:taylormade-small: P790 4-7, P760 8-PW w/ Project X 6.0          :vokey-small: 50°, 56°, 60°

:scotty-small: Pro Platinum Newport Mid-Slant          :titelist-small: Hybrid 14 Stand Bag          :titelist-small: ProV1

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