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Chizzle

"Loft jacking"

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Just wanted to see how people feel about how OEMS are moving towards stronger lofted irons.  I understand there is a market for such equipment whether it be for reasons such as age, strength, or injury to be competitive but I am not a fan of it.  In general i think it promotes for lack of a word, laziness.  I feel like it shifts the focus away from putting in the work on your fitness and swing to just buying an answer.  Just my opinion. 

What do you think?

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With the way technology has changed in irons, the lofts are made stronger but you maintain a similar ball flight shape. So a traditional 7-iron blade flight is the same shape as a SGI 7-iron flight, with the exception of the distance the ball flies. With how low the CG is on CB or players irons, if you maintained the exact same loft you'd end up with a shot that launches way too high and would get pushed all over the place by the wind. Loft jacking doesn't substitute at all for putting in the work on your swing though - a chunked iron is a chunked iron, no matter what loft it is or what number is on the sole.

I also don't understand being bothered by what equipment other people are using. If you want to play 20-year-old blades then go for it, but I'm going to choose equipment that allows me to have the most enjoyable time on the course.

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So I am very much a traditional loft proponent today as my traditional clubs/specs fit and achieve my goals regarding distances, trajectories, spin, etc.

But I am the first to admit what I consider traditional was at one time considered "strong" from the golfers of a previous generation...

So I say all that to state that I think any OEM is going to use the most cost effective state of the art technology to design clubs with material properties that yield distances, trajectories and angle of descent to stop the ball on the greens. That today most likely drives & equates to strong lofts.

I will admit, the older I get the more I appreciate technology :)

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1 hour ago, gavinski91 said:

With the way technology has changed in irons, the lofts are made stronger but you maintain a similar ball flight shape. So a traditional 7-iron blade flight is the same shape as a SGI 7-iron flight, with the exception of the distance the ball flies. With how low the CG is on CB or players irons, if you maintained the exact same loft you'd end up with a shot that launches way too high and would get pushed all over the place by the wind. Loft jacking doesn't substitute at all for putting in the work on your swing though - a chunked iron is a chunked iron, no matter what loft it is or what number is on the sole.

I also don't understand being bothered by what equipment other people are using. If you want to play 20-year-old blades then go for it, but I'm going to choose equipment that allows me to have the most enjoyable time on the course.

This pretty much sums up my thoughts.  My current irons are TaylorMade M2's. When I was considering them and looked up reviews I saw lots of complaints about loft jacking....yet people admitting that they were getting the same type of trajectory.  Eventually, when I'd see a reviewer start to complain about loft jacking I just treated them like a grumpy old guy yelling "someone get those damn kids off my lawn".  I bought the loft jacked irons and I enjoy playing them and they seem to be a better fit for me than my previous irons.  I'll probably just continue to ignore posts and comments complaining about loft jacking.  

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There’s dozens of threads on this subject already. 
 

it gets beat to death 3-4 times a year and on pretty much every forum in someway. 
 

It’s more than marketing. If you don’t like them don’t play them.

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@RickyBobby_PR i am fairly new to the forums and before I created this question, I did a quick search and didnt find a topic about it.  I then realized I didnt search properly after seeing your comment so I apologize for creating a redundant topic.  Once I found the thread in the club making section, I felt a lot of frustration in that thread from your comments and many others that are like minded to you.  That frustration is apparent here as well. 

I just want to touch on a couple things.  I dont play them unless I have to.  I dont think its marketing because I used my friends ping g400 irons when my clubs were being regripped.  I had a ~192 yrd par 3 to which I used a 7 iron and made it safely on the green so I know they work.  I figured it out because I looked up the loft of that 7 iron and did the math compared to what I hit my 7 iron.  This whole process may already seperate me from the general average golfer. 

Like I said in the beginning, I think there is a market as in a consumer population for these types of clubs.  I just wanted to know how people felt about it since I couldn't find that thread initially.  

I'm sorry if this whole thread rubbed you in the wrong way.  Not my intention.  

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7 hours ago, Chizzle said:

@RickyBobby_PR i am fairly new to the forums and before I created this question, I did a quick search and didnt find a topic about it.  I then realized I didnt search properly after seeing your comment so I apologize for creating a redundant topic.  Once I found the thread in the club making section, I felt a lot of frustration in that thread from your comments and many others that are like minded to you.  That frustration is apparent here as well. 

I just want to touch on a couple things.  I dont play them unless I have to.  I dont think its marketing because I used my friends ping g400 irons when my clubs were being regripped.  I had a ~192 yrd par 3 to which I used a 7 iron and made it safely on the green so I know they work.  I figured it out because I looked up the loft of that 7 iron and did the math compared to what I hit my 7 iron.  This whole process may already seperate me from the general average golfer. 

Like I said in the beginning, I think there is a market as in a consumer population for these types of clubs.  I just wanted to know how people felt about it since I couldn't find that thread initially.  

I'm sorry if this whole thread rubbed you in the wrong way.  Not my intention.  

It’s a topic that doesn’t die and gets rehashed multiple times a year. The points on both sides don’t change and the stronger lofts have been occurring for decades with the difference now that every brands offers multiple lines of different loft make up where in the past it was maybe 2 or 3 sets of clubs. 

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Hybrid: Titleist 816H1 21 with Atmos Blue 85 S

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For me it’s really aggravating. I get that there is a market for these jacked clubs, but there is a huge section of golfers that they are not good for. The problem is, data shows more people should use game improvement clubs but when the vast majority of them are strong lofted, it makes it hard. Personally I’m newer to the game, 20 handicap, with a shallow aoa and plenty of speed. Easy to say that I should play gi clubs, but the lofts hurt me and create gapping issues. I need more players lofted cavity backs which narrows my options. I feel like I’m the perfect example of why jacked lofts are hurting the game. Obviously the best thing is more options, but marketing to demographics is much more cost effective and people like to see there 7 iron go farther even if it will never hold a green. Anyone that’s ever seen these clubs on a launch monitor knows the marketing is bs. The 7i became a 6i, who cares what number is on the bottom? I do! Because a set of clubs is the same price and I can use less of them, and I need more specialty clubs to fill those gaps. To me, it’s all marketing and cost effective business tactics.


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15 hours ago, gavinski91 said:

With the way technology has changed in irons, the lofts are made stronger but you maintain a similar ball flight shape. So a traditional 7-iron blade flight is the same shape as a SGI 7-iron flight, with the exception of the distance the ball flies. With how low the CG is on CB or players irons, if you maintained the exact same loft you'd end up with a shot that launches way too high and would get pushed all over the place by the wind. Loft jacking doesn't substitute at all for putting in the work on your swing though - a chunked iron is a chunked iron, no matter what loft it is or what number is on the sole.

So the SGI brand you're talking about doesn't offer a (higher loft) 8i, 9i, PW or GW because they'd "get pushed all over the place by the wind?"

Loft jacking is part science, more marketing.

There is no reason whatsoever they couldn't have kept the traditional loft and number stamps they've always used - they didn't because of marketing. Joe Q public notes he hits some new SGI "7i" 10-20 yards further than my old 7i, and he's sold. Most amateurs don't know what the lofts on their irons are.

But this debate is so beyond beaten to death. Play what you want, even if you're just kidding yourself about how far you hit your X iron.

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I’ll let you know soon. The forged Tecs I will be playing for the CCC4 are stronger than AP2s I have know.

I’m liking the idea of swinging a 6 iron that is as short as my 7 iron and flys like my 5 iron.

As long as the green holding ability is there.


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24 minutes ago, Middler said:

So the SGI brand you're talking about doesn't offer a (higher loft) 8i, 9i, PW or GW because they'd "get pushed all over the place by the wind?"

Loft jacking is part science, more marketing.

There is no reason whatsoever they couldn't have kept the traditional loft and number stamps they've always used - they didn't because of marketing. Joe Q public notes he hits some new SGI "7i" 10-20 yards further than my old 7i, and he's sold. Most amateurs don't know what the lofts on their irons are.

But this debate is so beyond beaten to death. Play what you want, even if you're just kidding yourself about how far you hit your X iron.

It’s a lot less marketing and way more science. To deny that is just irresponsible. 

https://www.todaysgolfer.co.uk/features/equipment-features/2018/november/the-truth-about-strong-lofted-irons/

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4 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

It’s a lot less marketing and way more science. To deny that is just irresponsible. 

https://www.todaysgolfer.co.uk/features/equipment-features/2018/november/the-truth-about-strong-lofted-irons/

Irresponsible? We disagree. For every "article" supporting the science, you can easily find another pointing to marketing if you're curious. But we've all had this debate enough. If you can refute what I said in the earlier post, go for it.


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4 minutes ago, Middler said:

Irresponsible? We disagree. For every "article" supporting the science, you can easily find another pointing to marketing if you're curious. But we've all had this debate enough. If you can refute what I said in the earlier post, go for it.

I just refuted it with that article and we have hear from the designers of the clubs as well. @Golfspy_CG2 asked several during his visits to their HQ last year.

 


Driver: Titleist 917D3 9.5 with Graphite Design MAD Pro 65g S

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Hybrid: Titleist 816H1 21 with Atmos Blue 85 S

Irons: Titleist 718 AP3 4i, 718 CB 5-6, MB 7-9 with KBS $ Taper 125

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Never understood why people care. If a strong lofted iron doesn't work for you, don't buy it

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3 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

I just refuted it with that article and we have hear from the designers of the clubs as well. @Golfspy_CG2 asked several during his visits to their HQ last year.

 

OK I wasted my time and read the article - and it does not refute my earlier post at all. Your article even noted it all started with just loft jacking for the sake of distance (which is purely marketing nonsense), until buyers noted they'd lost approach spin/green holding. But keep throwing up links to support what you already believe. I won't bother to counter with just as many credible articles that acknowledge the marketing angle along with the science.


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  • Mizuno JPX900 Forged 4-GW, S18 56.10, S18 60.06
  • Evnroll ER5B (replaced ER2)
  • and 14th club - Mizuno CLK 3H 19° OR MP-20 HMB 3i 19°
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9 minutes ago, Joker said:

Never understood why people care. If a strong lofted iron doesn't work for you, don't buy it

No one cares what others buy. It's when OEM's claim their irons are X longer when they've jacked lofts, it's mostly BS. And when players claim they hit their new 7i as far as their old 5i without realizing the lofts on the two clubs are the same (or close), that's mostly BS. They haven't gained distance, they've mostly just paid to have clubs stamped with different numbers/lofts than the old set. Or my favorite is when players say OEMs had to lower lofts to maintain trajectory with new iron geometry, that's mostly BS.

But I'm done, been down this black hole too many times...

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  • Callaway Rogue 10.5° 9.5°D & 3W
  • Mizuno JPX900 Forged 4-GW, S18 56.10, S18 60.06
  • Evnroll ER5B (replaced ER2)
  • and 14th club - Mizuno CLK 3H 19° OR MP-20 HMB 3i 19°
  • Snell MTB-X (replaced Black)

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