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CNosil - Journey to a better golf game


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12 hours ago, cnosil said:

We talked about this for a bit on our call.  You can be extremely successful not trying to get as close to the green as possible or putting a wedge in your hand.    He told me about one of his students that was highly skilled player except for the wedge game.  In order for him to be productive for his HS and college teams,  he scaled back distance off the tee and laid back beyond his wedge distance and continued to improve the wedges.  He could have continued to hit to short wedges during competition and not been productive and also not been on his team.    I am going to let me scores suffer in the near term to work on those shots since I am not playing competitive golf.    This is where stats come into play;  right now putting a wedge in my hand increases my scoring due to poor proximity to the hole.  I am better if I stay outside 115 yards.    It isn't about laying up to a specific distance,  but not going inside a distance. 

Good luck!!  For me, the closer the better.  It's not about laying up... it's that I miss a lot of greens because I can't get to them because of wind, poor tee shot, poor second shot, etc, so I need to be able to play from any distance inside 100y.  I seem to play those shots better when I pick what kind of shot and which club to hit based on various factors.  I seldom hit the same shot from the same distance with the same club.  It's a "feel" thing for me, just like my putting looking at the hole.  I practice 30-40y pitch shots; high, low, medium with LW, SW and GW.  My 60º is my goto because I can hit all trajectories with that club from most lies, but I practice them all.

We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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Spent a little time at the MGS testing facility working on distance wedges. Goal was 1.0 smash factor and vertical shaft at impact to help get distance and swing speed to match.

Vertical shaft at impact is tough, I was typically 3-4* delofted.

30 yards was pretty good since that is the top end of finesse wedges.

50 yards was a tough distance as I hit most of them 40 or 60 with 60 seeming to be a good comfortable half swing distance.

The key to getting better will be practice time working on learning the swing feel. This will be similar to my work with the ExPutt; now I just need a launch monitor and a spot to put it. at home to be able to practice these distances.

I think it is time to move and get a house with a garage and skytrak.

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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28 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Spent a little time at the MGS testing facility working on distance wedges. Goal was 1.0 smash factor and vertical shaft at impact to help get distance and swing speed to match.

Vertical shaft at impact is tough, I was typically 3-4* delofted.

30 yards was pretty good since that is the top end of finesse wedges.

50 yards was a tough distance as I hit most of them 40 or 60 with 60 seeming to be a good comfortable half swing distance.

The key to getting better will be practice time working on learning the swing feel. This will be similar to my work with the ExPutt; now I just need a launch monitor and a spot to put it. at home to be able to practice these distances.

I think it is time to move and get a house with a garage and skytrak.

I've been doing the same thing at home, but I don't have the launch monitor you have access to or even a skytrak.   I'm using an SC200.  However, using it does give me the feel for full and partial wedge shot distance.

We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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I've been doing the same thing at home, but I don't have the launch monitor you have access to or even a skytrak.   I'm using an SC200.  However, using it does give me the feel for full and partial wedge shot distance.

How accurate do you think it is? Have always heard that they struggle reading wedges. I wish the local ranges had markers in 10 yard increments. I could laser them, but I would forget the spots as I did random practice.

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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9 hours ago, cnosil said:

How accurate do you think it is? Have always heard that they struggle reading wedges. I wish the local ranges had markers in 10 yard increments. I could laser them, but I would forget the spots as I did random practice.

I don't know about accuracy, but I get consistent numbers with what I think is the same swing effort.  I'm doing this inside into a net.  I've been thinking about taking it to the pitching area of my course.  The max I can hit from is about 40 yards, but it would validate the numbers I get at home.  Longer distances can be checked on the range.  We have one flag that's about 50y and the next one is 110y, but the teeing ground can be moved up or back 10y.  Then there is the difference from mat and grass.  The grass in the pitching area is like the turf on the course, but the range gets so much use that the turf is thin... just dirt with grass and no real root structure.  For a muni, I can't complain too much.

We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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On 8/26/2020 at 7:55 AM, cnosil said:

How accurate do you think it is? Have always heard that they struggle reading wedges. I wish the local ranges had markers in 10 yard increments. I could laser them, but I would forget the spots as I did random practice.

It seems like it becomes more sensitive at short distances. I used my SC200 in approach mode while hitting off a range mat across the road into a park. It was consistently off by 5-10 yards which on 40-100 yard shots is considerable (low batteries have also caused this). My yard has a bit of slope, so I think accuracy could be improved with better positioning of the monitor. 

I had more success pacing off 10 yard increments (30-80) based of landmarks (trees, fence posts) as well as  placing twigs or alignment sticks into the ground and then checking with a laser from my hitting location. 

It's increased my up and down conversions by 10-20% vs last season. 

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In an effort to work on my short game and to also see how a different strategy would work, I hit driver on all the non par 3 holes. Since the general thought is distance is more important than fairways. The decision to hit driver was based on doing a google earth review of each hole and seeing that the fairways were wide enough to accommodate the dispersion pattern. Basically why give up 20-40 yards trying to be “safe” when I could hit to a shorter distance and theoretically get closer to the hole on the approach shot.

Hit 2 bad tee shots on the front that resulted in lost balls off the tee and scores of double. After having practiced distance wedges I was more comfortable with hitting those shots. Prior to this round My swing length was too short for the distance I was trying to achieve. Shot 42/35:77 for the round.

While I knew this was common strategy now, I never actually put it into play. Guess I just felt more comfortable with that lay back and put the ball into the fairway mentality. After this round if there is space hit the driver I am going to hit it even if I end up in the rough.

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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Iron play was another area of focus and now that we are deep into most wanted iron testing, results are starting to be seen. The various drills I was given was help work on downswing and swing length. Face contact has definitely gotten better; as a result of doing these drills.

I admit I am fortunate to have access to a GC quad so I can see the data. What I have noticed is contact is now in the right location, path is less in to out than it was and I am hitting less fat shots.

The only problem with seeing the results on the launch monitor is that it makes me want to get onto the course and see the results there.

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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Got some input on some wedge data I recently captured.  Some of the patterns that were found:

  1. need steeper angle of attack.
  2. need more shaft lean 
  3. tow down at impact
  4. closed face at impact

goal is to lower the launch window;  I am at about 33*, to flight the wedges down and get a little higher smash factor.   this is obtained by club position and rotation   Should generate a bit more spin and help with distance control.   

The toe down at impact kind of counteracts the closed face.   Work on face at impact and then evaluate if we need to make the wedges more upright.  

Looking forward to getting back on a GC Quad to see what I can come up with.  We also discussed setting up a mark on a net or driveway markers with a pool noodle to ensure I am launching the wedges below 27*.    The basic math is that at 6 feet away the ball should launch under a 3 foot high mark.  Then based on working on swing length/speed, I can evaluate distance and shots without having access to a launch monitor.  Or I can get a launch monitor and build the distance translation between GC Quad,  personal launch monitor, and on course.  

 

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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21 hours ago, cnosil said:

Got some input on some wedge data I recently captured.  Some of the patterns that were found:

  1. need steeper angle of attack.
  2. need more shaft lean 
  3. tow down at impact
  4. closed face at impact

goal is to lower the launch window;  I am at about 33*, to flight the wedges down and get a little higher smash factor.   this is obtained by club position and rotation   Should generate a bit more spin and help with distance control.   

The toe down at impact kind of counteracts the closed face.   Work on face at impact and then evaluate if we need to make the wedges more upright.  

Looking forward to getting back on a GC Quad to see what I can come up with.  We also discussed setting up a mark on a net or driveway markers with a pool noodle to ensure I am launching the wedges below 27*.    The basic math is that at 6 feet away the ball should launch under a 3 foot high mark.  Then based on working on swing length/speed, I can evaluate distance and shots without having access to a launch monitor.  Or I can get a launch monitor and build the distance translation between GC Quad,  personal launch monitor, and on course.  

Just curious.  What loft wedge are you using and what smash factor are you trying to get to?

We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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2 hours ago, BMart519 said:

@cnosilYou're going to look like Bubba Watson flighting stinger wedges into a pool noodle! Can we get a video of that?

Sure.  When I get to the range to set that up I will video a few.  Will probably work on this using the GC Quad.   

1 hour ago, Kenny B said:

Just curious.  What loft wedge are you using and what smash factor are you trying to get to?

54* and we are trying to get me to 1.10 smash factor.  With the first set I was around 1.00.   My instructor said that the additional deloft should bump me up to the correct range. 

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Warning, kind of venting in this post. Need to get myself in a better place mentally.

Game is still in progress. Overall ball striking seems to be getting better with more center strikes. Based on GCquad data I am still coming way in to out and it is a struggle to get less than 3*.

On the course doubles and worse are killing me. Getting into some bad spots and putting a lot of pressure on my short game. Problems happens when I get severely sloped lies...not getting is reasonably close or multiple pitches required. Gotta figure this out because it really has been derailing my rounds. 3-4 doubles or worse per round just won’t allow you to score. I know short game needs work, but my misses aren’t close enough to just say my short game is bad.

Been working on the distance wedges and I really need to get a system worked out. Relying on feel isn’t working when I’d get between 60-80 yards. Launching them lower, but right now it feels like a lot of work for not much benefit. Change isn’t comfortable so I will keep plugging away.

Putting is looking okay. Distance control is decent as long as the green isn’t too sloped. I am putting too much emphasis on the slopes and not speed
So I am leaving myself with long second putts.

Mentally I am frustrated with how my game is progressing. Confident with the strategy side but the inability to execute decent shots over 18 holes is draining. Wish I had a place to install a skytrak/mevo+. Need some serious practice time.

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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3 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Warning, kind of venting in this post. Need to get myself in a better place mentally.

Game is still in progress. Overall ball striking seems to be getting better with more center strikes. Based on GCquad data I am still coming way in to out and it is a struggle to get less than 3*.

On the course doubles and worse are killing me. Getting into some bad spots and putting a lot of pressure on my short game. Problems happens when I get severely sloped lies...not getting is reasonably close or multiple pitches required. Gotta figure this out because it really has been derailing my rounds. 3-4 doubles or worse per round just won’t allow you to score. I know short game needs work, but my misses aren’t close enough to just say my short game is bad.

Been working on the distance wedges and I really need to get a system worked out. Relying on feel isn’t working when I’d get between 60-80 yards. Launching them lower, but right now it feels like a lot of work for not much benefit. Change isn’t comfortable so I will keep plugging away.

Putting is looking okay. Distance control is decent as long as the green isn’t too sloped. I am putting too much emphasis on the slopes and not speed
So I am leaving myself with long second putts.

Mentally I am frustrated with how my game is progressing. Confident with the strategy side but the inability to execute decent shots over 18 holes is draining. Wish I had a place to install a skytrak/mevo+. Need some serious practice time.

Full swing, flighted wedges and improving putting. You have all those going on. And from what I have read to a better end. However keep in mind that working on ALL of those at the same time is A LOT. All of which is fine as long as your mental disposition and expectations align with that. I get where you are coming from, it took me close to 18 months to change my inside path to something closer to neutral. 

:taylormade-small:     Stealth 2+ 9 (Diamana PD 60 S 45") 

image.png.dee92ef6cebb2ac4a3883744fc248f12.png     Stealth 2+ 15 (Diamana PD 70 S 43")

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"One thing Golf has taught me, is that my muscles have no memory."

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11 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Warning, kind of venting in this post. Need to get myself in a better place mentally.

Game is still in progress. Overall ball striking seems to be getting better with more center strikes. Based on GCquad data I am still coming way in to out and it is a struggle to get less than 3*.

On the course doubles and worse are killing me. Getting into some bad spots and putting a lot of pressure on my short game. Problems happens when I get severely sloped lies...not getting is reasonably close or multiple pitches required. Gotta figure this out because it really has been derailing my rounds. 3-4 doubles or worse per round just won’t allow you to score. I know short game needs work, but my misses aren’t close enough to just say my short game is bad.

Been working on the distance wedges and I really need to get a system worked out. Relying on feel isn’t working when I’d get between 60-80 yards. Launching them lower, but right now it feels like a lot of work for not much benefit. Change isn’t comfortable so I will keep plugging away.

Putting is looking okay. Distance control is decent as long as the green isn’t too sloped. I am putting too much emphasis on the slopes and not speed
So I am leaving myself with long second putts.

Mentally I am frustrated with how my game is progressing. Confident with the strategy side but the inability to execute decent shots over 18 holes is draining. Wish I had a place to install a skytrak/mevo+. Need some serious practice time.

Keep at it, if it wasn't hard it wouldn't be worth doing.  You're obviously working hard to improve; if I'm convinced of anything in this sport it's that hard work absolutely DOES get rewarded, provided you make sure you're working hard on the right things.  I've seen enough of your posts to know you're very deliberate and methodical and not chasing Golf Digest tips & tricks fads.

Sloped lies...a particular kind of sloped lie?  Ball below my feet has not been kind to me lately.  I will say one thing I'm slowly learning about avoiding doubles and triples is learning to accept and play for bogey.

Driver: :titleist-small: TSR2, :Fuji:Ventus Blue 6 S, 65g Stiff

FW: :titleist-small: TSR2 3w, 15,  :Fuji:Ventus Blue 7 S, 70g Stiff

Hybrids:  :callaway-small: Apex Pro 3H, :Fuji:Ventus Blue 8 S, 80g Stiff

            :taylormade-small: Stealth DHY 4H, :Fuji:Ventus Blue 8 S, 80g Stiff

Irons: :edel-golf-1: SMS 5-6, SMS Pro 7-PW, Aerotech Steelfiber i95 Stiff

Wedges: :vokey-small:SM9 48 F Grind, 52 F Grind, 56 M Grind, Aerotech Steelfiber i95 Stiff

Putter: :odyssey-small: Sri-Hot 5K Triple Wide, Stroke Lab shaft

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Sloped lies...a particular kind of sloped lie?  Ball below my feet has not been kind to me lately.  I will say one thing I'm slowly learning about avoiding doubles and triples is learning to accept and play for bogey.


Downhill and uphill. I know how to move the ball in my stance, it is more not hitting anywhere close to the right distance and chunking (probably due to my toe down at impact and close clubface)

I am okay with the playing for bogey because I understand that getting up and down in the 30% range is doing good. The blowups are tough to swallow. Here are some examples from the past weekend.

Uphill pitch from 25 yards. Hit it about 15 yards to another uphill lie. Hit that one to 25 feet.

Thick rough 30y pitch that I bladed over green, 20 yard downhill that I hit would 10yards; hit the next on to 3 feet.

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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2 minutes ago, cnosil said:

 


Downhill and uphill. I know how to move the ball in my stance, it is more not hitting anywhere close to the right distance and chunking (probably due to my toe down at impact and close clubface)

I am okay with the playing for bogey because I understand that getting up and down in the 30% range is doing good. The blowups are tough to swallow. Here are some examples from the past weekend.

Uphill pitch from 25 yards. Hit it about 15 yards to another uphill lie. Hit that one to 25 feet.

Thick rough 30y pitch that I bladed over green, 20 yard downhill that I hit would 10yards; hit the next on to 3 feet.

 

Yeah, so you're describing touch and feel shots that are very difficult to improve on without getting in the reps.  I'm in the same boat.  Absent the practice reps I've found I have to be VERY intentional about weight distribution and shoulder alignment with respect to slope, or I'll get bladed shots like you're describing.

Driver: :titleist-small: TSR2, :Fuji:Ventus Blue 6 S, 65g Stiff

FW: :titleist-small: TSR2 3w, 15,  :Fuji:Ventus Blue 7 S, 70g Stiff

Hybrids:  :callaway-small: Apex Pro 3H, :Fuji:Ventus Blue 8 S, 80g Stiff

            :taylormade-small: Stealth DHY 4H, :Fuji:Ventus Blue 8 S, 80g Stiff

Irons: :edel-golf-1: SMS 5-6, SMS Pro 7-PW, Aerotech Steelfiber i95 Stiff

Wedges: :vokey-small:SM9 48 F Grind, 52 F Grind, 56 M Grind, Aerotech Steelfiber i95 Stiff

Putter: :odyssey-small: Sri-Hot 5K Triple Wide, Stroke Lab shaft

Ball: :titelist-small: Pro V1

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@cnosil Sounds like you need to spend a couple hours at the short game facility and only hit chips off uneven lies, up/down and sidehill and work it out. Or play worst ball with 2 balls if there is space on your local course so there is less focus on score since you know you won't be posting a number and won't be getting many good lies and angles. This will get you playing these shots more often and maybe get to the point of embracing them and looking forward to the challenge with less performance pressure/stress. 

It sounds corny, but during the final hole of my last round I hooked my approach shot from 150 to the far side of the green and left a 70' downhill putt with about 5-6' of break. One of the guys I was paired with (never met him before) was commenting about putting troubles and our approach shots while we walked to the green. I told him "I like downhill putts as it helps me get the ball to the hole and this will be a good 2 putt" - which it would be by any measure, including PGA tour make rates from 70'. (Both statements were true and positive, one was my opinion of the situation and the other was fact). 

I burned the edge (whole group thought it was going in for birdie) which left me with a tap-in par and my best ever 9 of 38 on a course I had never played before at 6300 from the blue tees, so there was pressure to make this par for a +2 after coming off back-to-back bogeys. My 3-putt % from 60'+ is in the 60-80% range, maybe higher for this season. After listening to "Be a Player" and "Every Shot Must Have a Purpose" by Pia Nillson and Lynn Marriott, I think this kind of self-talk 100% has performance benefits on the course. Hopefully, the suggestions above can help change your perception of those challenging shots which is probably all you need - as a single digit player the skill is there. I would work backwards to determine what are the shots putting you in these positions and look to work on those or adjust strategy versus expecting "or needing" to get up and down from terrible spots. 

Another opposite putting example was on the previous hole that same day... I had to putt through 6'+ of fringe for a 60 foot downhill putt. I chose to play a bump and run with a 9 iron (in spite of the advice to "putt when possible, chip when you can't)  based on my performance from that distance (poor IMO), compounded by trouble putting through more than 2' of fringe. The decisiveness and confidence in this decision helped produce a good shot which rolled to 4-5' which I putted for bogey after having to punch out from the tees after an errant tee shot. 

I personally found Be a Player more valuable than Every Shot Must Have a Purpose from a mental game perspective if you are interested in the material. There is also a fair bit of overlap between them. The key message of the book is you can't improve your swing technique, fitness level, or equipment when on the course. You can only control/improve your mindset and thought processes which I have found to be a huge help over the last month of this season. 

:ping-small: G425 MAX Driver & 5W

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On 9/29/2020 at 2:52 PM, cnosil said:

Warning, kind of venting in this post. Need to get myself in a better place mentally.

Game is still in progress. Overall ball striking seems to be getting better with more center strikes. Based on GCquad data I am still coming way in to out and it is a struggle to get less than 3*.

On the course doubles and worse are killing me. Getting into some bad spots and putting a lot of pressure on my short game. Problems happens when I get severely sloped lies...not getting is reasonably close or multiple pitches required. Gotta figure this out because it really has been derailing my rounds. 3-4 doubles or worse per round just won’t allow you to score. I know short game needs work, but my misses aren’t close enough to just say my short game is bad.

Been working on the distance wedges and I really need to get a system worked out. Relying on feel isn’t working when I’d get between 60-80 yards. Launching them lower, but right now it feels like a lot of work for not much benefit. Change isn’t comfortable so I will keep plugging away.

Putting is looking okay. Distance control is decent as long as the green isn’t too sloped. I am putting too much emphasis on the slopes and not speed
So I am leaving myself with long second putts.

Mentally I am frustrated with how my game is progressing. Confident with the strategy side but the inability to execute decent shots over 18 holes is draining. Wish I had a place to install a skytrak/mevo+. Need some serious practice time.

What club do you use for the 60-80 yarders?  

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What club do you use for the 60-80 yarders?  

I have been using 54*.

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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[mention=15174]cnosil[/mention] Sounds like you need to spend a couple hours at the short game facility and only hit chips off uneven lies, up/down and sidehill and work it out. Or play worst ball with 2 balls if there is space on your local course so there is less focus on score since you know you won't be posting a number and won't be getting many good lies and angles. This will get you playing these shots more often and maybe get to the point of embracing them and looking forward to the challenge with less performance pressure/stress. 
It sounds corny, but during the final hole of my last round I hooked my approach shot from 150 to the far side of the green and left a 70' downhill putt with about 5-6' of break. One of the guys I was paired with (never met him before) was commenting about putting troubles and our approach shots while we walked to the green. I told him "I like downhill putts as it helps me get the ball to the hole and this will be a good 2 putt" - which it would be by any measure, including PGA tour make rates from 70'. (Both statements were true and positive, one was my opinion of the situation and the other was fact). 
I burned the edge (whole group thought it was going in for birdie) which left me with a tap-in par and my best ever 9 of 38 on a course I had never played before at 6300 from the blue tees, so there was pressure to make this par for a +2 after coming off back-to-back bogeys. My 3-putt % from 60'+ is in the 60-80% range, maybe higher for this season. After listening to "Be a Player" and "Every Shot Must Have a Purpose" by Pia Nillson and Lynn Marriott, I think this kind of self-talk 100% has performance benefits on the course. Hopefully, the suggestions above can help change your perception of those challenging shots which is probably all you need - as a single digit player the skill is there. I would work backwards to determine what are the shots putting you in these positions and look to work on those or adjust strategy versus expecting "or needing" to get up and down from terrible spots. 
Another opposite putting example was on the previous hole that same day... I had to putt through 6'+ of fringe for a 60 foot downhill putt. I chose to play a bump and run with a 9 iron (in spite of the advice to "putt when possible, chip when you can't)  based on my performance from that distance (poor IMO), compounded by trouble putting through more than 2' of fringe. The decisiveness and confidence in this decision helped produce a good shot which rolled to 4-5' which I putted for bogey after having to punch out from the tees after an errant tee shot. 
I personally found Be a Player more valuable than Every Shot Must Have a Purpose from a mental game perspective if you are interested in the material. There is also a fair bit of overlap between them. The key message of the book is you can't improve your swing technique, fitness level, or equipment when on the course. You can only control/improve your mindset and thought processes which I have found to be a huge help over the last month of this season. 

Had a session with my coach last
Night and based on data it is a swing issue. I am using hands to generate speed which is causing big inside out move, steep attack, flipping, toe down, and closed club face(many were 8* closed to path). On flatter lies I can get away from it. Going to work on generating speed with body to see how that works. Will be capturing some video to send in.

New drill is putting a 2x4 on the target line just outside the end of the club and make swings. Obviously avoid hitting the board.

Depending on how things go we will make some technique decisions to see what works best for me.

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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1 hour ago, cnosil said:


Had a session with my coach last
Night and based on data it is a swing issue. I am using hands to generate speed which is causing big inside out move, steep attack, flipping, toe down, and closed club face(many were 8* closed to path). On flatter lies I can get away from it. Going to work on generating speed with body to see how that works. Will be capturing some video to send in.

New drill is putting a 2x4 on the target line just outside the end of the club and make swings. Obviously avoid hitting the board.

Depending on how things go we will make some technique decisions to see what works best for me.

The 2x4 is one of my training aids I used for many years when I shanked a lot.  With my recent swing change, adding more body rotation, I haven't needed it.  

I think you are on the right track working on body rotation.  One day it will all come together.  "Come together, right now."

We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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6 hours ago, Shankster said:

WhT is your miss?

Biggest problem is distance control.  My miss is pull or fat but I have been hitting a bunch thin recently. 

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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5 hours ago, Kenny B said:

The 2x4 is one of my training aids I used for many years when I shanked a lot.  With my recent swing change, adding more body rotation, I haven't needed it.  

I think you are on the right track working on body rotation.  One day it will all come together.  "Come together, right now."

Goal is to try and reduce the in to out swing and get the club coming back inside instead of hitting the board.   It is a learning process toward more consistency.  I don't think it will be right now,  but hopefully soon.    Yes I caught the Aerosmith reference

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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22 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Goal is to try and reduce the in to out swing and get the club coming back inside instead of hitting the board.   It is a learning process toward more consistency.  I don't think it will be right now,  but hopefully soon.    Yes I caught the Aerosmith reference

hahaha   Yes, it was a reference, but for my generation it was the Beatles, written by John Lennon.  Besides Aerosmith, Ike and Tina Turner, and Michael Jackson did their versions.

We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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@cnosil Good on ya for getting after these changes and putting in the work to improve. I'm really impressed with how you've stuck with it and continued to take your swing changes to the course, even when you don't feel totally natural with them yet. I appreciate your honesty throughout the process as well, as I think some folks either don't commit to a change like you are, and others just might not be honest about how frustrating it can be. I hope things start to click for you soon, it doesn't sound like you're far off!

Right Handed

Driver: 9° :cobra-small: Speedzone (HZRDUS Smoke Green 70g X-Stiff shaft)

2 Hybrid: 18° :tour-edge: Exotics EXS Pro (Evenflow Black 6.5) (2020 MGS Official Review here)

3/Driving Iron: 18° :Hogan: UiHi Iron (MMT Utility TX 105g shaft)

Irons: 4-GW :titelist-small: T100 irons (Nippon Modus 120 X-Stiff shafts) (2021 MGS Official Review here)

Wedges: 54° & 58° post-76102-0-38507100-1525284411_thumb.jpg TSW Forged (Dynamic Gold S300)

Putter: :EVNROLL: ER2B (2019 MGS Official Review here)

Ball: MAXFLI Tour X

Bag: :ping-small: Hoofer Lite

WITB thread here

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7 hours ago, ncwoz said:

@cnosil Good on ya for getting after these changes and putting in the work to improve. I'm really impressed with how you've stuck with it and continued to take your swing changes to the course, even when you don't feel totally natural with them yet. I appreciate your honesty throughout the process as well, as I think some folks either don't commit to a change like you are, and others just might not be honest about how frustrating it can be. I hope things start to click for you soon, it doesn't sound like you're far off!

That is part of the reason I start posting this.  I enjoyed reading the threads from the others talking about their progress and I wanted to kind of journal my path forward.    This is how you get better at golf,  we go through the bad to change feels and get better results.   I am seeing progress with the full swing, but I need to hit more greens.   We are getting close with the short game and I think it is good to show how online exchanges can work with a coach.   I work on some things,  see how the work on the course,  then capture some data/video to get feedback.    I really don't think I am that far off,  having 2-3 pitches per hole totally wrecks a round and I should get close to my initial goal if I can just get past the pitching issues.   

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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A couple of days ago I worked on my swing doing the board drill (2x4 in target line touching end of club) No real major strikes on the board; I grazed the board a few times but not the jarring hit I was expecting.

 

Played yesterday and full swing was working well. No significant mishits and felt like my sequencing was good. Ball flights were pretty straight other than a few pulls where I could feel that my sequence was off and pulled the ball. I think it is a good sign that I can feel when my sequencing is off.

 

Short game continues to be a struggle. Missed 6 greens and no up and downs...all bogeys. A couple of shots were a few feet short of my target resulting in the ball rolling down hills and second pitches. Overall contact was pretty good, distance control not so good.

 

Really want to get out and play again to see if I can continue what I experienced.

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15*  w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype        
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :titleist-small: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite
Putter:   :taylormade-small:TM-180

Testing:   SPGC_logo.jpg

Backups:  :odyssey-small: Milled Collection RSX 2, :seemore-small: mFGP2, :cameron-small: Futura 5W

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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On 10/2/2020 at 10:36 PM, cnosil said:

Biggest problem is distance control.  My miss is pull or fat but I have been hitting a bunch thin recently. 

So... something I work on is:

 

set up in a range where you could reach the green with a specific wedge.  But do not try to get the ball there.  Instead make a half swing and see how far it goes. Then another half swing, and another.  If they are all pretty well grouped together, pace it off and that is your half swing shot.  But you have to take out any expectations.  So if you make a half swing with the 56° and it goes 45 yards on average, write that down.  Don’t “try to hit a distance” let the strike determine “your” distance.  
 

My PW with a super narrow stance and stopping at the knees is a 40ish yard pitch. A little wider with a 3/4 swing is 100 yards.
 

then move to 3/4 see if they are all grouped together. Don’t focus on getting the ball to a specific target.  Just work on the distance but let the club tell you how far it will hit the ball, then work from there.

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