CNosil - Journey to a better golf game

[cnosil]

16 minutes ago, Tom the Golf Nut said:

My way of overcoming the same issue was to put a line on the ball. Line up the line with your intended target line. Then just set up to the line on the ball and trust it. Always trust it! Don't second guess based on what you see once you get in putting position.

That or leverage a spot in front of the ball and roll it over that spot; which is what I was doing today.  If you are going to trust the line over what you see if becomes a mental exercise.  

[cnosil]

While watching the masters I decided that I should look at my shot scope stats in some detail to see what I needed to work on this year.   

Driving:  Driving continues to be pretty good.  Not taking many penalties and have good looks for my second shot.  Distance has been down over the past few months but that is most like related to temperatures.

Approach play: As my rounds have gone on this year, my greens hit numbers have gone up.  Ball contact has also been improving and I am hitting the center of the face more consistently.  My only concern over the past few rounds has been the occasional thin/top shot with wedges.   

Short Game:  This is the area that was the most problematic when I started the thread.   Lessons and practice have resulted in better contact and overall improvement.   Still a weak area in my game.   Currently working on trying to being able to make good contact from swing 1 and not have to take a few shots to dial in the correct feels.  Also working on getting better distance control to improve proximity to the hole.    

Putting:  Maybe it is related to the improved approach play but my putting has been trending downward since the beginning of the year.    Basically I am taking too many 2 and 3 putts to really score well.  Based on some evaluation, the problem isn't read or start line but speed control.  

 

Overall/Scoring:  Not really happy with the state of my game simply because I feel like I should be scoring better.   Improved iron and short game play has been offset by worse putting causing scores to be roughly the same.   Generally avoiding the doubles as of late; just too many bogeys.    With the time change,  I am hoping to get some more time to get to the short game area and putting green to try and strengthen those aspects.   Will  continue to leverage most wanted testing to work on full swing mechanics to try and reduce shot dispersion.   

[cnosil]

League play tonight.....One step forward,  20 steps backwards.   Hit my short game shots well and putted well;  unfortunately, the rest of my game was a disaster.  

Started out the round well: 

1: perfect tee shot, on the green in regulation, and an easy 2 putt.   

2: great tee shot that ran through the fairway, on the green and a 20 footer for birdie. 

3: tee shot to 5 feet but didn't hit the putt hard enough so it broke just past the hole so easy par. 

4: good tee shot, hit 2nd well but pushed a little bit,  well struck pitch that was a little short and ended up in the bunker, bunker shot to 1 foot.   another par

5: tee shot was thin and ran through the fairway.  Had to hit under tree; strike was ok and ended up about 10 yards short.  pitch to 10 feet burnt the edge for a good bogey.

6:  Now it falls apart.....thin shot that flew over the green and ends up under a tree.  I think I can get a club on the ball but the ball went 5 feet and then rolled back into a bush, got the ball out, on the green and 2 putt for a triple.  

7: High slicing tee shot that hits a tree and goes about 50 yards.   Good iron shot to about 150,  good iron onto green and then 2 putt for a bogey.  

8:  Hit the worse slicing drive that I have hit in a long time;  couldn't find the ball.  Model local rule was in play so I was in the fairway hitting 4.  Pushed next shot right of the green; wedge to 8 feet.  1 putt for double.  

9:  Topped tee shot about 50 yards, good second shot, fat wedge, wedge that rolled back down the hill, wedge to 5 feet and one putt for another double.   

 

These thin/topped shots that have popped up in to my game the past couple of times out are so frustrating.   Can't understand how I go from hitting such great shots to shots that totally wreck my round and then back to good shots.  

I know I am getting close but just have to figure out how to get over the hurdle.  

[GolfSpy_SHARK]

9 hours ago, cnosil said:

League play tonight.....One step forward,  20 steps backwards.   Hit my short game shots well and putted well;  unfortunately, the rest of my game was a disaster.  

Started out the round well: 

1: perfect tee shot, on the green in regulation, and an easy 2 putt.   

2: great tee shot that ran through the fairway, on the green and a 20 footer for birdie. 

3: tee shot to 5 feet but didn't hit the putt hard enough so it broke just past the hole so easy par. 

4: good tee shot, hit 2nd well but pushed a little bit,  well struck pitch that was a little short and ended up in the bunker, bunker shot to 1 foot.   another par

5: tee shot was thin and ran through the fairway.  Had to hit under tree; strike was ok and ended up about 10 yards short.  pitch to 10 feet burnt the edge for a good bogey.

6:  Now it falls apart.....thin shot that flew over the green and ends up under a tree.  I think I can get a club on the ball but the ball went 5 feet and then rolled back into a bush, got the ball out, on the green and 2 putt for a triple.  

7: High slicing tee shot that hits a tree and goes about 50 yards.   Good iron shot to about 150,  good iron onto green and then 2 putt for a bogey.  

8:  Hit the worse slicing drive that I have hit in a long time;  couldn't find the ball.  Model local rule was in play so I was in the fairway hitting 4.  Pushed next shot right of the green; wedge to 8 feet.  1 putt for double.  

9:  Topped tee shot about 50 yards, good second shot, fat wedge, wedge that rolled back down the hill, wedge to 5 feet and one putt for another double.   

 

These thin/topped shots that have popped up in to my game the past couple of times out are so frustrating.   Can't understand how I go from hitting such great shots to shots that totally wreck my round and then back to good shots.  

I know I am getting close but just have to figure out how to get over the hurdle.  

I had a similar experience last week with wedges. Have been playing them so well and I had a case of the shanks years ago and had not since really working on it, they came back for an entire hole, was awful. You arent alone Chris! (but we know you know that)

[cnosil]

Made it to the range this afternoon and didn't hit a single thin or topped shot and while my driver had a little fade it wasn't a nasty slice.   Only think I can think of right now is that at the range I was trying to slow myself down to make good swings.   Next round will be Sunday and I'll try and stay focused on making good swings for the entire round.  if i can hit the ball like i did during practice today i will be happy.

[GolfSpy_KFT]

1 hour ago, cnosil said:

Made it to the range this afternoon and didn't hit a single thin or topped shot and while my driver had a little fade it wasn't a nasty slice.   Only think I can think of right now is that at the range I was trying to slow myself down to make good swings.   Next round will be Sunday and I'll try and stay focused on making good swings for the entire round.  if i can hit the ball like i did during practice today i will be happy.

I noticed during my round today, every time I felt like I hit a poor shot it was because I got too quick. On the good irons I did hit, I felt almost deliberate in my swing and my distance was better than usual. Hard to remember that every time in the course but definitely makes a huge difference! I’m sure you’ll translate it well Sunday!

[cnosil]

24 minutes ago, Jnoble89 said:

I noticed during my round today, every time I felt like I hit a poor shot it was because I got too quick. On the good irons I did hit, I felt almost deliberate in my swing and my distance was better than usual. Hard to remember that every time in the course but definitely makes a huge difference! I’m sure you’ll translate it well Sunday!

Yep,  rushing seems to get the body out of sequence.  Bad sequencing = Bad shot. 

[cnosil]

Beautiful day so it was out for a round of golf to see if I got my swing back in order.  Score:  38/41:79

Tee game wasn't horrible even though I only hit 5 FW;  only had to pitch out once.   Not bad; the course has what can best be described as elevated fairways and if you miss right or left it will roll down a roughly 15 foot high slope and if you are amongst the houses roll OB and if not into the woods.  

Approach game was good.   11 greens and those that missed didn't miss by much.  Everything was solidly hit and had a pretty straight ball flight.  

Short game was respectable;  make good contact and didn't duff or blade any.  

Putting was miserable.  Speed control was terrible and had 4 three putts and 35 total putts.  Also struggled in the 3-6 foot range.   

Below is the performance metrics compared to a 5-cap from ShotScope; which confirmed my basic assessment. 

 

Next up:  League play on Tuesday. 

[Kenny B]

On 4/4/2023 at 6:36 PM, Tom the Golf Nut said:

My way of overcoming the same issue was to put a line on the ball. Line up the line with your intended target line. Then just set up to the line on the ball and trust it. Always trust it! Don't second guess based on what you see once you get in putting position.

Exactly!!

[GolfSpy_KFT]

On 4/4/2023 at 8:36 PM, Tom the Golf Nut said:

My way of overcoming the same issue was to put a line on the ball. Line up the line with your intended target line. Then just set up to the line on the ball and trust it. Always trust it! Don't second guess based on what you see once you get in putting position.

I am so massively guilty of this. I’ll set up the alignment on my ball to the line I see (whether it’s always right or not, who knows), and then nearly always adjust off that line when I am over the ball. It looks like I am never on line over the ball. Need to just trust it and line up to it. 

[Kenny B]

3 hours ago, cnosil said:

Putting was miserable.  Speed control was terrible and had 4 three putts and 35 total putts.  Also struggled in the 3-6 foot range.   

Obviously, you need a new putter!!  --   Bettinardi Studio Stock 16     

[cnosil]

Last night was league night and while I hit a couple of “bad” tee shots and made a couple of mental mistakes my concern continues to grow about my putting.  Putting used to be a fairly strong aspect of my game and now I’d say it is bad.
 

 I felt really good starting my round.  Good tee shot the ended up on the right side of the fairway, wedge to about 6 feet.  However, when I got over the putt I just didn’t feel, comfortable and made a poor stoke but ended up in tap in range.  Second again, good tee shot, good iron shot, and a nice 50 yard pitch to end up 10ish feet from the hole.  Again not comfortable but managed another 2 putt.  Third hole hole fairway, iron to about 12 feet and then disaster….a 4 putt effort.  Until about the 7th hole, there was total doubt in my head about every putt.  The rest of the way in, I got back to hitting good putts and making solid contact.  When I am putting poorly, there is an unease and tentativeness in my head.  During preshot I am positive and thinking about making a solid stroke and hitting it with enough speed to get past the hole.  When I am over the ball doubt seems to take over.    
 

I guess it comes down to pressure and making putts that “matter” versus the practice green where I make good strokes.   I say putts that matter even though they don’t and I have normal expectations since I understand putting make rates.  
 

have to figure out how to get rid of the mental demons running around my head.  

[GolfSpy AFG]

27 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Last night was league night and while I hit a couple of “bad” tee shots and made a couple of mental mistakes my concern continues to grow about my putting.  Putting used to be a fairly strong aspect of my game and now I’d say it is bad.
 

 I felt really good starting my round.  Good tee shot the ended up on the right side of the fairway, wedge to about 6 feet.  However, when I got over the putt I just didn’t feel, comfortable and made a poor stoke but ended up in tap in range.  Second again, good tee shot, good iron shot, and a nice 50 yard pitch to end up 10ish feet from the hole.  Again not comfortable but managed another 2 putt.  Third hole hole fairway, iron to about 12 feet and then disaster….a 4 putt effort.  Until about the 7th hole, there was total doubt in my head about every putt.  The rest of the way in, I got back to hitting good putts and making solid contact.  When I am putting poorly, there is an unease and tentativeness in my head.  During preshot I am positive and thinking about making a solid stroke and hitting it with enough speed to get past the hole.  When I am over the ball doubt seems to take over.    
 

I guess it comes down to pressure and making putts that “matter” versus the practice green where I make good strokes.   I say putts that matter even though they don’t and I have normal expectations since I understand putting make rates.  
 

have to figure out how to get rid of the mental demons running around my head.  

Is it as simple as trying too hard?  Or maybe being a little too results oriented versus process oriented?  I wonder if you would benefit from a concerted attempt at simply visualizing the roll of the ball as part of your routine, and then just pull the trigger to match that visualization.

Sorry if that's not terribly beneficial, but you don't seem to be describing any mechanical shortfalls beyond maybe being too concerned with mechanics...?

[cnosil]

31 minutes ago, Getoffmylawn said:

Is it as simple as trying too hard?  Or maybe being a little too results oriented versus process oriented?  I wonder if you would benefit from a concerted attempt at simply visualizing the roll of the ball as part of your routine, and then just pull the trigger to match that visualization.

Sorry if that's not terribly beneficial, but you don't seem to be describing any mechanical shortfalls beyond maybe being too concerned with mechanics...?

Could be, I don’t know.  I don’t “see” the line of a putt as I tend to lean toward the mechanical side of things.  I am more of a here’s the slope and a ball breaks this much on that slope amount.   I hear about people seeing the path the ball will take, but I don’t know how to do that?  How do you visualize a putt?  
 

all I know is that it was definitely a weird telling when I was standing over the putts.  Maybe it was doubt,  maybe setup just wasn’t right, or as you said I subconsciously put too pressure on myself to make the putts.  

[GolfSpy AFG]

2 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Could be, I don’t know.  I don’t “see” the line of a putt as I tend to lean toward the mechanical side of things.  I am more of a here’s the slope and a ball breaks this much on that slope amount.   I hear about people seeing the path the ball will take, but I don’t know how to do that?  How do you visualize a putt?  
 

all I know is that it was definitely a weird telling when I was standing over the putts.  Maybe it was doubt,  maybe setup just wasn’t right, or as you said I subconsciously put too pressure on myself to make the putts.  

That's fair, and I'm not advocating that you close your eyes and imagine the putt.  But, I do think there is merit to the notion of visualizing the roll of the ball.  Granted he's talking about Heads Up putting, but Sasho McKenzie commonly recommends the last step being to visualize or see a laser line from the putter face, and then simply attempting to roll the ball along that line.

I found this quote from Tiger about his putting that maybe helps explain:  "Every look I take from the ball is a picture. So I take the picture of that right there, one. At my second look, I take another picture, I get up over the ball. I take the last picture and all I do is think about putting to the picture," said Woods.

"All I am doing is putting to the picture. I'm telling you down the stretch in tournaments, when I'm really nervous, I will go back to that and say 'Come on Tiger just putt to the picture, like Papa used to say'."

Again, just something to consider.  I'm convinced one of the worst things to do to try to improve your putting stroke is to think about the mechanics of it while you're over the ball.  Stockton talks about it a lot too...if you're trying to take the putter back along a certain arc, in a certain length, or in a certain wrist position, that's hard.  But if the task is simply "can I roll the ball across this spot," that at least allows you to self-organize around that task.

[RickyBobby_PR]

58 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Could be, I don’t know.  I don’t “see” the line of a putt as I tend to lean toward the mechanical side of things.  I am more of a here’s the slope and a ball breaks this much on that slope amount.   I hear about people seeing the path the ball will take, but I don’t know how to do that?  How do you visualize a putt?  
 

all I know is that it was definitely a weird telling when I was standing over the putts.  Maybe it was doubt,  maybe setup just wasn’t right, or as you said I subconsciously put too pressure on myself to make the putts.  

How do you read putts to determine line and speed?

To me the path the ball will take is reading the green. Seeing/feeling how much break, where the apex is, how fast to roll the ball on that line or is it better to be more aggressive with the speed and take a different line. To me this is also what visualizing the putt means to me

[cnosil]

7 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

How do you read putts to determine line and speed?

To me the path the ball will take is reading the green. Seeing/feeling how much break, where the apex is, how fast to roll the ball on that line or is it better to be more aggressive with the speed and take a different line. To me this is also what visualizing the putt means to me

I step off the length of the putt which gives me the feel for stroke (speed).   I assess slope, which gives me the aimpoint by the hole (line).   I trace a straight line from that point back to the ball which gives me a spot to roll the ball over (start line). I putt the ball over that spot. 

I don’t see the balls path, I don’t assess the apex of the putt, and I don’t see a reason to evaluate a different line or speed.  

[RickyBobby_PR]

26 minutes ago, cnosil said:

I step off the length of the putt which gives me the feel for stroke (speed).   I assess slope, which gives me the aimpoint by the hole (line).   I trace a straight line from that point back to the ball which gives me a spot to roll the ball over (start line). I putt the ball over that spot. 

I don’t see the balls path, I don’t assess the apex of the putt, and I don’t see a reason to evaluate a different line or speed.  

Differ line and speed is based on how you want the ball to finish in the hole. Dieting it in the hole requires a different line and speed for that compared to a having it go in the hole with some speed. Part of the process is determining what an acceptable miss is. If dieing it in the hole means a ball that misses the line and ends up below the hole and that could cause the ball to role further away than missing it high and a little pst the hole shoudl be considered 

[cnosil]

4 minutes ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

the ball to role further away than missing it high and a little pst the hole shoudl be considered 

Valid point and I have adjusted line based on this type of assessment.

[cksurfdude]

On 5/3/2023 at 9:28 AM, cnosil said:

.. my concern continues to grow about my putting

[cnosil]

2 hours ago, cksurfdude said:

That thought has crossed my mind

 

[fixyurdivot]

18 minutes ago, cnosil said:

That thought has crossed my mind

 

I think this accurately depicts fixing various parts of one's golf game .  

[cnosil]

As I continue to seek improvement, i dive into each of my rounds to identify trends and areas for potential improvement.   
 

tee shots: I have been pushing tee shots as of late.  Need to go back to what I learned doing the driver speed lab with MGS and that I hit better tee shots when I try to maximize swing speed and not trying to control my swing to “hit a better tee shot”.  
 

approach shots: finding my groove here; iron shots are pretty solid.   Might even swap out my hybrid and put the 5 iron back into the bag.  This is based on iron testing at MGS, swing is feeling really good

Short game: continues to be the problem area.  Mixture of good and bad shots.  During practice I am hitting the ball well, just not always translating to the course

putting: been on an uptick lately.  Worked on setup and speed control at home ad have seem improvement during actual play.  Still not 100% comfortable but it’s getting better.  
 

Instruction: I have gone through a few coaches/instructors since this tread started. My first was a great coach that was helping both online and in person.  Had been working with him for years and for some reason I got ghosted.   Since then I have been searching and did a few in person lessons and one via online instruction.   Both were good instructors,  just not sure they were right for me.    For now, going to self assess and see what I can figure out.  

[RickyBobby_PR]

1 hour ago, cnosil said:

As I continue to seek improvement, i dive into each of my rounds to identify trends and areas for potential improvement.   
 

tee shots: I have been pushing tee shots as of late.  Need to go back to what I learned doing the driver speed lab with MGS and that I hit better tee shots when I try to maximize swing speed and not trying to control my swing to “hit a better tee shot”.  
 

approach shots: finding my groove here; iron shots are pretty solid.   Might even swap out my hybrid and put the 5 iron back into the bag.  This is based on iron testing at MGS, swing is feeling really good

Short game: continues to be the problem area.  Mixture of good and bad shots.  During practice I am hitting the ball well, just not always translating to the course

putting: been on an uptick lately.  Worked on setup and speed control at home ad have seem improvement during actual play.  Still not 100% comfortable but it’s getting better.  
 

Instruction: I have gone through a few coaches/instructors since this tread started. My first was a great coach that was helping both online and in person.  Had been working with him for years and for some reason I got ghosted.   Since then I have been searching and did a few in person lessons and one via online instruction.   Both were good instructors,  just not sure they were right for me.    For now, going to self assess and see what I can figure out.  

What does your full swing practice look like? Is there any block practice and if so what work are you doing and at what speed?

[cnosil]

9 hours ago, RickyBobby_PR said:

What does your full swing practice look like? Is there any block practice and if so what work are you doing and at what speed?

I don't really do full swing practice other than hitting balls for most wanted testing.   We have been doing iron testing so that is all I am swinging.  

most of my practice is short game centric.  I have an area I can go to that lets me hit shots up to about 50 yards so I do that a couple of times a week. Unfortunately,  there isn't an actual green so I can't really assess how close I am hitting the ball to a spot for metric comparison.  Occasionally I will hit wedges after a most wanted session. 

[cnosil]

WOW,  it has been a really long time since I posted in this thread.  It's the end of the summer so I kind of need to do a summary of the summer of golf.   Best way is to break it down by game area.

Driver:  In general driving is pretty good and I typically avoid getting myself into too much trouble off the tee.  Most shots are playable into the green.   I love my G400 but feel like I hit it a little low; next driver might have a little more loft.  I feel like my work on irons play has resulted in some improvement with the tee game.  

Fairway/hybrids:  Another pretty solid part of the game.   occasionally lose 3 wood to the right,  tried a shaft switch and it ended up more right so I am back to what was working.  I love the hybrids in my bag;  effective off the tee and a pretty straight ball flight.  

Irons:  An area that I was looking to improve with my last set of lessons.  Had been hitting pull hooks and with the lessons and continued work on my swing my ball flight has straightened out a lot.   6 iron (longest iron I carry) has a tendency to overdraw but probably related to a bit of an overswing.  I still hit the occasional toe shot but ball striking is generally centered.  I'd like to get GIR numbers up a little bit.

Wedges:  probably the worst part of my game right now but it seems to be improving.   Ball contact is good; struggle with the distance control aspect.  distance control is off with both distance and finesse wedges.   I'm typically long with my distance wedges and short with the finesse shots.   My bogeys seem to be related to this area and not getting the ball close enough for an "easy" up and down.

Putting:  Went back to a putter that I used for many years that was fit to my stroke by a putting instructor I worked with.   Also went back to using a line on the ball.   Speed control is good although I struggle a bit on slower greens.   I feel like my ExPutt;  which I was part of the forum test for, keeps my putting sharp.   Have become more aggressive on the putts  inside of 10 feet to try and ensure the ball gets to the hole and not break off around the hole.  

Course/game Management:  I'll lump in the ShotScope tagging and game assessment into this category.   I've pulled the tags as I felt there was too much information to digest and dig into for my playing ability.  I'm able to look back at each round and identify what I could have done better.   Occasionally it is a lack of commitment to the shot.   DECADE has been the cornerstone of targeting and course management.  The system has definitely improved how I approach my game especially on front pin location and ensuring I hit the ball far enough to have more putts instead of finesse wedges.  

Scoring:  Obviously this is the most important area;  how low are the scores.   Scoring has definitely improved as the summer has gone along; more scores in the lower 70s with the highs being around 85 instead of upper 70s to upper 80s.   I honestly think the scores could have been even lower; since the beginning of July I have struggled to play 18 holes and my hole scores start to escalate as the round goes on.  Hopefully I can get the issue figured out soon (not too optimistic based on the past 2 months) and see if I can maintain the front nine scoring over 18 holes.