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[mention=15174]cnosil[/mention] Sounds like you need to spend a couple hours at the short game facility and only hit chips off uneven lies, up/down and sidehill and work it out. Or play worst ball with 2 balls if there is space on your local course so there is less focus on score since you know you won't be posting a number and won't be getting many good lies and angles. This will get you playing these shots more often and maybe get to the point of embracing them and looking forward to the challenge with less performance pressure/stress. 
It sounds corny, but during the final hole of my last round I hooked my approach shot from 150 to the far side of the green and left a 70' downhill putt with about 5-6' of break. One of the guys I was paired with (never met him before) was commenting about putting troubles and our approach shots while we walked to the green. I told him "I like downhill putts as it helps me get the ball to the hole and this will be a good 2 putt" - which it would be by any measure, including PGA tour make rates from 70'. (Both statements were true and positive, one was my opinion of the situation and the other was fact). 
I burned the edge (whole group thought it was going in for birdie) which left me with a tap-in par and my best ever 9 of 38 on a course I had never played before at 6300 from the blue tees, so there was pressure to make this par for a +2 after coming off back-to-back bogeys. My 3-putt % from 60'+ is in the 60-80% range, maybe higher for this season. After listening to "Be a Player" and "Every Shot Must Have a Purpose" by Pia Nillson and Lynn Marriott, I think this kind of self-talk 100% has performance benefits on the course. Hopefully, the suggestions above can help change your perception of those challenging shots which is probably all you need - as a single digit player the skill is there. I would work backwards to determine what are the shots putting you in these positions and look to work on those or adjust strategy versus expecting "or needing" to get up and down from terrible spots. 
Another opposite putting example was on the previous hole that same day... I had to putt through 6'+ of fringe for a 60 foot downhill putt. I chose to play a bump and run with a 9 iron (in spite of the advice to "putt when possible, chip when you can't)  based on my performance from that distance (poor IMO), compounded by trouble putting through more than 2' of fringe. The decisiveness and confidence in this decision helped produce a good shot which rolled to 4-5' which I putted for bogey after having to punch out from the tees after an errant tee shot. 
I personally found Be a Player more valuable than Every Shot Must Have a Purpose from a mental game perspective if you are interested in the material. There is also a fair bit of overlap between them. The key message of the book is you can't improve your swing technique, fitness level, or equipment when on the course. You can only control/improve your mindset and thought processes which I have found to be a huge help over the last month of this season. 

Had a session with my coach last
Night and based on data it is a swing issue. I am using hands to generate speed which is causing big inside out move, steep attack, flipping, toe down, and closed club face(many were 8* closed to path). On flatter lies I can get away from it. Going to work on generating speed with body to see how that works. Will be capturing some video to send in.

New drill is putting a 2x4 on the target line just outside the end of the club and make swings. Obviously avoid hitting the board.

Depending on how things go we will make some technique decisions to see what works best for me.
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1 hour ago, cnosil said:


Had a session with my coach last
Night and based on data it is a swing issue. I am using hands to generate speed which is causing big inside out move, steep attack, flipping, toe down, and closed club face(many were 8* closed to path). On flatter lies I can get away from it. Going to work on generating speed with body to see how that works. Will be capturing some video to send in.

New drill is putting a 2x4 on the target line just outside the end of the club and make swings. Obviously avoid hitting the board.

Depending on how things go we will make some technique decisions to see what works best for me.

The 2x4 is one of my training aids I used for many years when I shanked a lot.  With my recent swing change, adding more body rotation, I haven't needed it.  

I think you are on the right track working on body rotation.  One day it will all come together.  "Come together, right now."

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6 hours ago, Shankster said:

WhT is your miss?

Biggest problem is distance control.  My miss is pull or fat but I have been hitting a bunch thin recently. 

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5 hours ago, Kenny B said:

The 2x4 is one of my training aids I used for many years when I shanked a lot.  With my recent swing change, adding more body rotation, I haven't needed it.  

I think you are on the right track working on body rotation.  One day it will all come together.  "Come together, right now."

Goal is to try and reduce the in to out swing and get the club coming back inside instead of hitting the board.   It is a learning process toward more consistency.  I don't think it will be right now,  but hopefully soon.    Yes I caught the Aerosmith reference

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22 minutes ago, cnosil said:

Goal is to try and reduce the in to out swing and get the club coming back inside instead of hitting the board.   It is a learning process toward more consistency.  I don't think it will be right now,  but hopefully soon.    Yes I caught the Aerosmith reference

hahaha   Yes, it was a reference, but for my generation it was the Beatles, written by John Lennon.  Besides Aerosmith, Ike and Tina Turner, and Michael Jackson did their versions.

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We don’t stop playing the game because we get old; we get old because we stop playing the game.”

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@cnosil Good on ya for getting after these changes and putting in the work to improve. I'm really impressed with how you've stuck with it and continued to take your swing changes to the course, even when you don't feel totally natural with them yet. I appreciate your honesty throughout the process as well, as I think some folks either don't commit to a change like you are, and others just might not be honest about how frustrating it can be. I hope things start to click for you soon, it doesn't sound like you're far off!

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7 hours ago, ncwoz said:

@cnosil Good on ya for getting after these changes and putting in the work to improve. I'm really impressed with how you've stuck with it and continued to take your swing changes to the course, even when you don't feel totally natural with them yet. I appreciate your honesty throughout the process as well, as I think some folks either don't commit to a change like you are, and others just might not be honest about how frustrating it can be. I hope things start to click for you soon, it doesn't sound like you're far off!

That is part of the reason I start posting this.  I enjoyed reading the threads from the others talking about their progress and I wanted to kind of journal my path forward.    This is how you get better at golf,  we go through the bad to change feels and get better results.   I am seeing progress with the full swing, but I need to hit more greens.   We are getting close with the short game and I think it is good to show how online exchanges can work with a coach.   I work on some things,  see how the work on the course,  then capture some data/video to get feedback.    I really don't think I am that far off,  having 2-3 pitches per hole totally wrecks a round and I should get close to my initial goal if I can just get past the pitching issues.   

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A couple of days ago I worked on my swing doing the board drill (2x4 in target line touching end of club) No real major strikes on the board; I grazed the board a few times but not the jarring hit I was expecting.

 

Played yesterday and full swing was working well. No significant mishits and felt like my sequencing was good. Ball flights were pretty straight other than a few pulls where I could feel that my sequence was off and pulled the ball. I think it is a good sign that I can feel when my sequencing is off.

 

Short game continues to be a struggle. Missed 6 greens and no up and downs...all bogeys. A couple of shots were a few feet short of my target resulting in the ball rolling down hills and second pitches. Overall contact was pretty good, distance control not so good.

 

Really want to get out and play again to see if I can continue what I experienced.

Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
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                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
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Wedge:  :callaway-small: 54-10S   :cleveland-small: 588  58-12
Putter:  :seemore-small: mFGP2

Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330, :taylormade-small:TM-180, Bellum Winmore 787

 

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On 10/2/2020 at 10:36 PM, cnosil said:

Biggest problem is distance control.  My miss is pull or fat but I have been hitting a bunch thin recently. 

So... something I work on is:

 

set up in a range where you could reach the green with a specific wedge.  But do not try to get the ball there.  Instead make a half swing and see how far it goes. Then another half swing, and another.  If they are all pretty well grouped together, pace it off and that is your half swing shot.  But you have to take out any expectations.  So if you make a half swing with the 56° and it goes 45 yards on average, write that down.  Don’t “try to hit a distance” let the strike determine “your” distance.  
 

My PW with a super narrow stance and stopping at the knees is a 40ish yard pitch. A little wider with a 3/4 swing is 100 yards.
 

then move to 3/4 see if they are all grouped together. Don’t focus on getting the ball to a specific target.  Just work on the distance but let the club tell you how far it will hit the ball, then work from there.

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So... something I work on is:
 
set up in a range where you could reach the green with a specific wedge.  But do not try to get the ball there.  Instead make a half swing and see how far it goes. Then another half swing, and another.  If they are all pretty well grouped together, pace it off and that is your half swing shot.  But you have to take out any expectations.  So if you make a half swing with the 56° and it goes 45 yards on average, write that down.  Don’t “try to hit a distance” let the strike determine “your” distance.  
 
My PW with a super narrow stance and stopping at the knees is a 40ish yard pitch. A little wider with a 3/4 swing is 100 yards.
 
then move to 3/4 see if they are all grouped together. Don’t focus on getting the ball to a specific target.  Just work on the distance but let the club tell you how far it will hit the ball, then work from there.

This is pretty much what I am doing except I am using a launch monitor. The data has been key to helping figure out what I am doing. This is why we started the 2x4 drill and working on body turn to control speed and not getting to much hands involved.
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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
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Wedge:  :callaway-small: 54-10S   :cleveland-small: 588  58-12
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  • 2 weeks later...

Been a bit slack in my practice; lazy and weather.    I need to get some video of my short game swing to send to my coach.   Been getting a little full swing work in as part of most wanted testing.  I have adjusted my setup to get my path a bit more neutral.  Have moved from the 6 degree range to about 3 degrees.  Face control is better as well.   Seems to be paying off as I have hit a few more greens and have had less offline approaches the past couple of weeks.  The nice thing about better approach shots it that it takes pressure off the short game.    Instead of the 30y pitches due to fat shots,  I am hitting shots from more around the green and can use 9 irons to have a shorter more controlled swing.    

Wrapping up most wanted testing for the year on Wednesday so I will try and go in and do some intense short game work.  

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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
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Wedge:  :callaway-small: 54-10S   :cleveland-small: 588  58-12
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Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330, :taylormade-small:TM-180, Bellum Winmore 787

 

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On 10/5/2020 at 10:58 AM, Shankster said:

So... something I work on is:

 

set up in a range where you could reach the green with a specific wedge.  But do not try to get the ball there.  Instead make a half swing and see how far it goes. Then another half swing, and another.  If they are all pretty well grouped together, pace it off and that is your half swing shot.  But you have to take out any expectations.  So if you make a half swing with the 56° and it goes 45 yards on average, write that down.  Don’t “try to hit a distance” let the strike determine “your” distance.  
 

My PW with a super narrow stance and stopping at the knees is a 40ish yard pitch. A little wider with a 3/4 swing is 100 yards.
 

then move to 3/4 see if they are all grouped together. Don’t focus on getting the ball to a specific target.  Just work on the distance but let the club tell you how far it will hit the ball, then work from there.

There is a great video on short game basics on TXG where they do this on a launch monitor and much more with Gareth Raflewski, he even says that the people he works with write the 1/2, 3/4, and full short distances for each club and stick it to your club so you don't even need to remember them.

 

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There is a great video on short game basics on TXG where they do this on a launch monitor and much more with Gareth Raflewski, he even says that the people he works with write the 1/2, 3/4, and full short distances for each club and stick it to your club so you don't even need to remember them.
 

Knowing your distances is key as well as knowing dispersion patterns and being able to make good contact. I know and understand these things and can do them in controlled environments. The problem is the bad shot that happens on the course. When we hit that shot when getting fitted or calculating distances we call It an outlier and delete it. On the course it still counts.

I carry this in my pocket for distance references. I need to update it based on swing improvements and new clubs. IMG_0595.jpg
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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :callaway-small: 54-10S   :cleveland-small: 588  58-12
Putter:  :seemore-small: mFGP2

Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330, :taylormade-small:TM-180, Bellum Winmore 787

 

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2 minutes ago, cnosil said:


Knowing your distances is key as well as knowing dispersion patterns and being able to make good contact. I know and understand these things and can do them in controlled environments. The problem is the bad shot that happens on the course. When we hit that shot when getting fitted or calculating distances we call It an outlier and delete it. On the course it still counts.

I carry this in my pocket for distance references. I need to update it based on swing improvements and new clubs. IMG_0595.jpg

That's a great addition to add. Actually one of the things that annoyed me from the Arccos system was the inability to remove those outliers. I know with enough data this would sort itself out, but early on it makes the data tough to work with. any punch outs an such mess with those distances early on. Wish you could remove them to see update averages.

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18 minutes ago, cnosil said:

The problem is the bad shot that happens on the course. When we hit that shot when getting fitted or calculating distances we call It an outlier and delete it. On the course it still counts.

^ That is so key!!

A little off-topic, but one way (in addition to lessons + practice) I'm looking to improve on the course is working to make the bad shots less bad...

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^ That is so key!!
A little off-topic, but one way (in addition to lessons + practice) I'm looking to improve on the course is working to make the bad shots less bad...

Not off topic at all. I am doing the same thing. My doubles come from having multiple pitch/chips on the same hole. This is why I was told to use 9 iron as much as possible when around the green; the exception being when it really isn’t practical. Basically if I hit a bad shot the hope is that it isn’t too bad. The strategy has worked the past couple of rounds as I have avoided the double pitch. Still hitting some bad ones but I am getting on the green.
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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :callaway-small: 54-10S   :cleveland-small: 588  58-12
Putter:  :seemore-small: mFGP2

Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330, :taylormade-small:TM-180, Bellum Winmore 787

 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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2 minutes ago, cnosil said:


Not off topic at all. I am doing the same thing. My doubles come from having multiple pitch/chips on the same hole. This is why I was told to use 9 iron as much as possible when around the green; the exception being when it really isn’t practical. Basically if I hit a bad shot the hope is that it isn’t too bad. The strategy has worked the past couple of rounds as I have avoided the double pitch. Still hitting some bad ones but I am getting on the green.

I have been doing this.... had 91 in the other day, took a 3/4 gap wedge and hit the dang thing 145 yards.... why?  Thinned. But I did it agin 2 holes later, hitting a PW 162 over the back of a par 3...

my big scores usually come from an OB tee shot.

Really like your distance chart.

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Really like your distance chart.

I do too; I reference it for all shots. Just measure the distance, make adjustments based on conditions, pull the chart out of my pocket, and then select a club.

I’ve changed my approach to the partial wedges based on lesson so I need to build a new one. I’ll probably do more partial shots when I redo the chart I’m the next month or so.
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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :callaway-small: 54-10S   :cleveland-small: 588  58-12
Putter:  :seemore-small: mFGP2

Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330, :taylormade-small:TM-180, Bellum Winmore 787

 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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Time goes by so quickly. I am being really slack with practicing my short game. Need to get some video to send to my instructor and hoping to get back to MGS to use the GC quad to see if the swing drills are helping. Or I just need to get motivated and head to the practice area at a local course.

Have started doing some work on my putting; distance control is pretty good but feel like I am missing my startline on occasion. Exputt is showing this as well. Wondering if the Odyssey just isn’t the right putter for me. Going back through my putting foundations to check vision and setup to get myself baselined. Been doing the work indoors but want to get to a putting green to double check the results with a real hole.

Need to find some motivation to get myself to the course to practice. Or buy myself a net so I could just walk outside.

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Driver:  :ping-small: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven
Fairway: :titelist-small: TS3 15* set  to 16.5* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke
Hybrids:  :titelist-small: 816H1 19* set at 18* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
                :titelist-small: 915H  21*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
               :titelist-small: 915H 24*  w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype
Irons:      :honma:TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite
Wedge:  :callaway-small: 54-10S   :cleveland-small: 588  58-12
Putter:  :seemore-small: mFGP2

Backups:  :bobby-grace-1: 6330, :taylormade-small:TM-180, Bellum Winmore 787

 

Member:  MGS Hitsquad since 2017697979773_DSCN2368(Custom).JPG.a1a25f5e430d9eebae93c5d652cbd4b9.JPG

 

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