Jalvino Posted June 29, 2020 Share Posted June 29, 2020 So my brother bought new clubs from cobra he’s brand new to golf so he wasn’t going to spend the money to get fitted. So he got a stock set and I noticed at the range is he always hitting heel 1st so I threw on a sticker and here’s the result can anyone help with what he needs done ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChitownM2 Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 I'd get some lessons first before i started making lie adjustments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pulledabill Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 If I was at that point. Id go a degree flat, hit a few more and adjust as needed. Is your typical ball flight a draw? GaDawg and cnosil 2 Quote DRIVER: Cobra F9 10.5 Tensei AV Blue 65g 3W- Callway XR PRO 16 stiff 5W- Alpha- Mitsubishi Diamana Redboard w/band Irons- Mizuno JPX 919 Tours with S KBS Tour shafts Hyrbid- TM 4h mid-rescue Vokey- Vokey SM5 51 degrees, SM7 Wedges 54 and 58 1/2 half 3 degrees upright Putter- Taylor Made Rossa Monza Mini Spider Ball-ProV1 and AVX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 Based on the impact tape you need to go flatter. The recommended approach is 1* at a time. I am assuming you are using a lie board. That method has fallen out of favor and the method below is considered a better way to check lie angle. https://www.golfinred.com/fit-lie-angle-without-lie-board/ Hadi05, jddaigneault and Grit Golf 3 Quote Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: Sacks Parente MC 3 Stripe Backup Putters: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W, TM-180 Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChitownM2 Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 6 hours ago, cnosil said: Based on the impact tape you need to go flatter. The recommended approach is 1* at a time. I am assuming you are using a lie board. That method has fallen out of favor and the method below is considered a better way to check lie angle. https://www.golfinred.com/fit-lie-angle-without-lie-board/ I know what you posted is correct, but is that really the best course of action for someone who has never golfed before? Based on the original post, the person swinging the club is not OP, it's his brother who is new to golf. Wouldn't it make sense for someone knowledgeable to check out his posture/swing and make sure he isn't doing something that could be causing him to come in too flat before bending the clubs? TR1PTIK and cnosil 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 8 minutes ago, ChitownM2 said: I know what you posted is correct, but is that really the best course of action for someone who has never golfed before? Based on the original post, the person swinging the club is not OP, it's his brother who is new to golf. Wouldn't it make sense for someone knowledgeable to check out his posture/swing and make sure he isn't doing something that could be causing him to come in too flat before bending the clubs? That’s a chicken and egg question for many in golf. Does one get fit first or lessons first. Having clubs that fit ones swing even if bad/inconsistent swing is better than having clubs that work against the swing. By flattening the irons contact and ball flight should improve and make golf somewhat more consistent. Meanwhile if he is serious and wants to get better can take lessons and then re test lie angle and adjust if needed. TR1PTIK and cnosil 2 Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnosil Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 53 minutes ago, ChitownM2 said: I know what you posted is correct, but is that really the best course of action for someone who has never golfed before? Based on the original post, the person swinging the club is not OP, it's his brother who is new to golf. Wouldn't it make sense for someone knowledgeable to check out his posture/swing and make sure he isn't doing something that could be causing him to come in too flat before bending the clubs? Definitely. I would always recommend lessons but the in my mind the question was about the state of the clubs. As someone else posted chicken or egg problem. Bending clubs for lie angle is a pretty straightforward thing to do so if they need to be changed after lessons it can be done. Sometimes even the pro can bend them for you. GaDawg, TR1PTIK and RickyBobby_PR 3 Quote Driver: G400 Max 9* w/ KBS Tour Driven Fairway: TS3 15* w/Project X Hzardous Smoke Hybrids: 915H 21* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype 915H 24* w/KBS Tour Graphite Hybrid Prototype Irons: TR20V 6-11 w/Vizard TR20-85 Graphite Wedge: 54/12D, 60/8M w/:Accra iWedge 90 Graphite Putter: Sacks Parente MC 3 Stripe Backup Putters: Milled Collection RSX 2, mFGP2, Futura 5W, TM-180 Member: MGS Hitsquad since 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jddaigneault Posted June 30, 2020 Share Posted June 30, 2020 If the ball flight is consistently a draw, bend them 1-2 degrees flat. You can always get the lie angle readjusted after getting lessons. I’d also recommend looking at his posture. Is he too far from the ball, or too hunched? It might be he needs to creep in on the ball or stand up straighter. If he looks like a sprinkler spreading the ball all over the place, start with lessons. Quote Taylormade M5 Driver Cobra F9 3 Wood Srixon ZX5 4-6 Iron Srixon ZX7 7-PW Taylormade MG2 Wedges 50/55/60 Taylormade Spider X Putter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grit Golf Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 How tall is he in golf shoes and what is his wrist to floor measurement? If his static measurements say to adjust flat (you can use a ping chart or pings nflight web page) that will back up the impact tape results. @cnosil is right - my coach uses the sharpie test. The sharpie test is probably the most important data point of 3 three. If all 3 of those point to bending flat then you can pretty confidently bend the clubs until his swing changes (should he get lessons etc). aerospace_ray 1 Quote “He’s a Cinderella story. A former assistant groundskeeper about to become the Masters champion. It looks like a mirac… It’s in the hole! It’s in the hole! It’s in the hole!” — Carl Spackler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 10 hours ago, Grit Golf said: How tall is he in golf shoes and what is his wrist to floor measurement? If his static measurements say to adjust flat (you can use a ping chart or pings nflight web page) that will back up the impact tape results. @cnosil is right - my coach uses the sharpie test. The sharpie test is probably the most important data point of 3 three. If all 3 of those point to bending flat then you can pretty confidently bend the clubs until his swing changes (should he get lessons etc). Nobody uses static measurements for fittings including ping. It’s a tool on their website for virtual fittings. @Golfspy_CG2 was at TPI and iirc had a conversation about this with the fitter who had some sort of reply about you don’t hit a golf ball standing up with your arms to the side. The lie tape as mentioned is a method that has been mostly thrown out and the use of a line on the ball that gets transferred to the clubface is how some do it now and the experienced ones look at ball flight as well ask what a persons miss is and what type of shape they are hitting. based on the lie tape is evident he comes in with the heel and should go flat. That’s the quickest and easiest fix until he chooses to take lessons and/or does a proper fitting TR1PTIK 1 Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grit Golf Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 I’d politely disagree in this instance - static numbers are 1 data point, and as a new golfer, he might be doing something silly in his brand new swing which could change a ton as he figures it out. I haven’t see his swing, so the static numbers are relevant because they provide a sanity check on the impact tape and could prevent engraining a silly swing motion by bending the clubs to fit his brand new, possibly silly swing. If static numbers have him at 4 up and the impact tape is 2 flat, it might make sense to pump the brakes on equipment changes. Static numbers take about 30 seconds to measure. He should also do the sharpie test, if all 3 of those point to 1-2 flat, great! If they are all over the place, hold off. Quote “He’s a Cinderella story. A former assistant groundskeeper about to become the Masters champion. It looks like a mirac… It’s in the hole! It’s in the hole! It’s in the hole!” — Carl Spackler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChitownM2 Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 Guess the popular opinion is to get them bent. Posting a photo at address or a video of a swing would probably go a long way in helping people on here confirm if changing the lie really is warranted. IMO golf is a sport where it's nearly impossible for most people to self diagnose their their own issues. If someone is serious enough to drop $500+ on new cobra irons then he should have $45 to spend on a 30 min lesson to figure out if he is on the right path forward before spending $45 on an equipment adjustment that may not be necessary and could potentially hurt his development. He could probably even go back to wherever he bought the club's and ask them to take a look and see if he needs the lie adjustment. They certainly would have done that for free if he had asked before purchasing and probably still will under the assumption that if the answer is yes, they will get paid to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
null Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 If you're already missing the ball to the right, then flattening the lie angle will only make your miss worse. Lie angle should be adjusted for ball flight,not how the club interacts with the turf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 10 hours ago, Grit Golf said: I’d politely disagree in this instance - static numbers are 1 data point, and as a new golfer, he might be doing something silly in his brand new swing which could change a ton as he figures it out. I haven’t see his swing, so the static numbers are relevant because they provide a sanity check on the impact tape and could prevent engraining a silly swing motion by bending the clubs to fit his brand new, possibly silly swing. If static numbers have him at 4 up and the impact tape is 2 flat, it might make sense to pump the brakes on equipment changes. Static numbers take about 30 seconds to measure. He should also do the sharpie test, if all 3 of those point to 1-2 flat, great! If they are all over the place, hold off. Again there are practically no fitters using static measurements because it’s not a useful data point in actual fittings. Just like the old reliable lie board has now become pretty much obsolete in fittings and in the fittings I’ve watched from company reps or my fitter it’s used to show the golfer what’s happening and why they are recommending a certain lie angle and not as an actual fitting tool. At my titleist Thursday’s fitting they didn’t even have a lie board. Other than a starting point for getting into a baseline of where to start for a ping online fitting. There is nothing static about a golf swing. My old fitter who is now the main guy at TPC sawgrass was a ping fitter of the year. His static fitting would have him playing 1/2” over and depending on brand 1 flat to 1 upright. His actually fitting resulted in standard length and std to 1* flat. @Golfspy_CG2 would usually be in 1” over and usually some uprightness. His titleist fitting had him in standard length and even could have gone shorter. He’s 6’7” Ball flight is the biggest thing that should be looked at. Edit: Ping was the big proponent for static fittings and some ping shops even had the chart posted on the wall to show wrist to floor and hand measurements and how they matched to their color codes. Since the release of the i20s I’ve been fit by ping reps one of which is now the PXG tour rep for the LPGA tour, twice from ping fitters from their HQ who drive a van around the country in the summer times and by the precious fitter at my range. None of them ever did a static fitting on me. One would thing a company that has static fitting listed on their website as part of the fitting process would use it in every fitting vice rarely, if ever use it. I’ve worked demo days where ping was in attendance and their rep and demo day staff never used a static measurement. For someone that doesn’t have access to do a fitting using ping webfit tool is a good start but even they state the importance of a dynamic fitting and that the static fit should get a person within 1 color code. aerospace_ray 1 Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grit Golf Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 It’s just my $.02, Im not a pro, but my thought is that a dynamic fitting is slightly less useful for someone who has fewer than a half dozen trips to the range under their belt, has no established swing, and has never taken a lesson. They may be delivering the club 2 flat today, and 2 up next week and when they get some lessons they may normalize out to within a color code of their static numbers. I’m not saying Bryson or Matt Wolff, or even an experienced golfer, should use a wrist to floor chart to be fit. In this case we’re talking about a brand new player. I think it’s a bit dogmatic to not at least consider static numbers as one data point. Quote “He’s a Cinderella story. A former assistant groundskeeper about to become the Masters champion. It looks like a mirac… It’s in the hole! It’s in the hole! It’s in the hole!” — Carl Spackler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickyBobby_PR Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 44 minutes ago, Grit Golf said: It’s just my $.02, Im not a pro, but my thought is that a dynamic fitting is slightly less useful for someone who has fewer than a half dozen trips to the range under their belt, has no established swing, and has never taken a lesson. They may be delivering the club 2 flat today, and 2 up next week and when they get some lessons they may normalize out to within a color code of their static numbers. I’m not saying Bryson or Matt Wolff, or even an experienced golfer, should use a wrist to floor chart to be fit. In this case we’re talking about a brand new player. I think it’s a bit dogmatic to not at least consider static numbers as one data point. You are delving into the chicken and egg thing again. In a perfect world nobody would boy equipment until they had lessons and and had a good swing down but that’s just not reality. TXG has done a video on why everyone should get fit even those who are high handicaps. They also talk about how fittings should be some form of instruction as well. @Golfspy_CG2 experienced this with his fitting at TXG and it changed the fitting. Dynamic fittings are how every proper fitting is done. Someone that doesn’t have time to practice or isn’t looking to take the game serious can benefit from a dynamic fitting because the end result will be a club that reduces the dispersion of shots and help with some consistency of delivery of the club. Yes that persons may have a swing that is over the top or too far from the inside but instead of having to create a swing based on the current club setup that will lead to continued inconsistency and bigger misses the clubs that were fit to them will work in conjunction with their swing so instead of fighting the club they can just swing their swing and play with that swing. The vast majority of golfers ive seen get fit aren’t taking lessons and like many of us have swing faults. They get fit to find the best club for them and their swing. Quote Driver: PXG 0811 X+ Proto w/UST Helium 5F4 Wood: TaylorMade M5 5W w/Accra TZ5 +1/2”, TaylorMade Sim 3W w/Aldila rogue white Hybrid: PXG Gen2 22* w/AD hybrid Irons: PXG Gen3 0311T w/Nippon modus 120 Wedges: TaylorMade MG2 50*, Tiger grind 56/60 Putter: Scotty Caemeron Super Rat1 Ball: Titleist Prov1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfspy_CG2 Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 Yeah, true every fitting I've had in the past 3 years or so, and off the top of my head, that's 5 or 6, not one has used a wrist to floor measurement. Granted they all have been at OEM HQ or a place like TXG, where they have access to cameras that measure all of that. But yeah, for the true beginner that can't or chooses not to go the full fitting route, I can see the need to do a at home wrist to floor measurement, and use the companies online chart to determine what length club he should have. It's certainly better than guessing if the player has no previous data to go on and isn't going to be properly fit. cnosil and RickyBobby_PR 2 Quote G430 Max 10K TSiR1 15.0 Aldlia Ascent 60g TSR2 18.0 PX Aldila Ascent 6og TSi1 20 Aldila Ascent Shafts R T350 5-GW SteelFiber I80 SM10 48F/54M and58K S159 48S/52S/56W/60B Select 5.5 Flowback 35" ProV1 Play number 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zrumble Posted July 1, 2020 Share Posted July 1, 2020 On 6/29/2020 at 2:55 PM, Jalvino said: So my brother bought new clubs from cobra he’s brand new to golf so he wasn’t going to spend the money to get fitted. So he got a stock set and I noticed at the range is he always hitting heel 1st so I threw on a sticker and here’s the result can anyone help with what he needs done ? Pretty good stuff. I feel like most beginners I’ve helped get steep, which drops the toe into the ground first. Hitting ground heel first is generally the lesser of the two evils, unless there is a big loop in the swing. But who knows, he could be the next Furyk or Wolfe. Take lessons is an easy answer, and a good coach will help him understand how to deliver the club into impact. This might cure his lie angle problems. I suspect not if he has to fight his natural movement patterns. I would bend the irons flat until his swing produced a level ground interaction. Only then you can tweak his face-to-path angle consistently. If the heel is digging different amounts on every swing, particularly in different turf conditions, the face will come into the ball at a different angle to the path. Lie angle can be monitored as his skills improve. RickyBobby_PR and aerospace_ray 2 Quote Stats: 5'4", Male, R-Handed, Moderate Tempo, Driver SS 115mph Driver: Taylormade SiM Max 9*, TM Ventus Blue 6X 3w/5w: Callaway X-Hot, S-flex Fubuki shafts 3h: Tour Edge EXS Pro, Smoke Black 80g 6.0 4i-PW: Mizuno MP-4, DG S300 Wedges: Titleist SM7 56* Wedge: Callaway Jaws w/ 12* of bounce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaffleHouseTour Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 On 6/30/2020 at 6:43 AM, cnosil said: Based on the impact tape you need to go flatter. The recommended approach is 1* at a time. I am assuming you are using a lie board. That method has fallen out of favor and the method below is considered a better way to check lie angle. https://www.golfinred.com/fit-lie-angle-without-lie-board/ Thanks for this one... For years I’ve always laced irons that were two degrees flat - always. But last year I switched to one length cobras and my pro said to purchase them stock and we’d test for lie angles later - we’ll we both got busy and later never came. I’ve been wondering about them - I have a single club that always seems to start to the right. No TXG near me - their videos on lie angles really sent me down a rabbit hole - but also made me fear the lie board and tape. So glad to find another way to test on my own. Off to get a sharpie... Quote Walking ahead of my BagBoy QuadXL w Alphard eWheels Driver: Callaway Mavrik SubZero 9* Neutral w stock Evenflow Riptide R flex shaft 3W Titelist TS2 15* Draw w Tensei Blue R flex 3H, 4H Cobra One Length F9 Speedback hybrids (1”short) w Fujikura Atmos R flex shaft 5I-GW Cobra Forged TEC Black One Length (1”short, 2* flat) KBS 90 R flex shafts 56, 60 Cobra King MIM One Length Black (1” short) KBS HiRev2.0 125 S flex shafts ER7 or Scotty Futura X - 35” OnCore Elixr (lemon or lime) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaDawg Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 https://thesandtrap.com/blogs/entry/18-sharpie-test-easy-way-to-check-your-lie-angles/ Quote Driver: TSI3 - 10*, Hzrdus Smoke 6.0 Stiff Driver: Stealth Plus - 10.5*, Oban Kiyoshi Purple O4Flex-65 Grams Purred 3 Wood: SIM - 15*, Graphite Design Tour AD DJ5 Stiff Hybrid: TS3 - 19*, Hzrdus Smoke 6.0 Stiff Irons: 5 - PW T150, with Nippon Zelos 7 Reg, 4 iron - U505 with Project X HZRDUS Black Stiff Wedges: Vokey SM 8 - 50*, 60* Standard Wedge Shafts Wedge: Milled Grind 3 MG3 56* S200 shaft Putter: Studio Select Newport 1.5 Putter: Phantom X 5.5 Ball: Pro V1x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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