Help determine my lie adjustment

[Jalvino]

So my brother bought new clubs from cobra he’s brand new to golf so he wasn’t going to spend the money to get fitted. So he got a stock set and I noticed at the range is he always hitting heel 1st so I threw on a sticker and here’s the result can anyone help with what he needs done ?

[ChitownM2]

I'd get some lessons first before i started making lie adjustments.

[pulledabill]

If I was at that point. Id go a degree flat, hit a few more and adjust as needed. 

Is your typical ball flight a draw?

[cnosil]

Based on the impact tape you need to go flatter. The recommended approach is 1* at a time.

I am assuming you are using a lie board. That method has fallen out of favor and the method below is considered a better way to check lie angle.

https://www.golfinred.com/fit-lie-angle-without-lie-board/

[ChitownM2]

6 hours ago, cnosil said:

Based on the impact tape you need to go flatter. The recommended approach is 1* at a time.

I am assuming you are using a lie board. That method has fallen out of favor and the method below is considered a better way to check lie angle.

https://www.golfinred.com/fit-lie-angle-without-lie-board/

I know what you posted is correct, but is that really the best course of action for someone who has never golfed before? Based on the original post, the person swinging the club is not OP, it's his brother who is new to golf. Wouldn't it make sense for someone knowledgeable to check out his posture/swing and make sure he isn't doing something that could be causing him to come in too flat before bending the clubs?

[RickyBobby_PR]

8 minutes ago, ChitownM2 said:

I know what you posted is correct, but is that really the best course of action for someone who has never golfed before? Based on the original post, the person swinging the club is not OP, it's his brother who is new to golf. Wouldn't it make sense for someone knowledgeable to check out his posture/swing and make sure he isn't doing something that could be causing him to come in too flat before bending the clubs?

That’s a chicken and egg question for many in golf. Does one get fit first or lessons first.

Having clubs that fit ones swing even if bad/inconsistent swing is better than having clubs that work against the swing. 
 

By flattening the irons contact and ball flight should improve and make golf somewhat more consistent. Meanwhile if he is serious and wants to get better can take lessons and then re test lie angle and adjust if needed.

[cnosil]

53 minutes ago, ChitownM2 said:

I know what you posted is correct, but is that really the best course of action for someone who has never golfed before? Based on the original post, the person swinging the club is not OP, it's his brother who is new to golf. Wouldn't it make sense for someone knowledgeable to check out his posture/swing and make sure he isn't doing something that could be causing him to come in too flat before bending the clubs?

Definitely.  I would always recommend lessons but the in my mind the question was about the state of the clubs.   As someone else posted chicken or egg problem.   Bending clubs for lie angle is a pretty straightforward thing to do so if they need to be changed after lessons it can be done.   Sometimes even the pro can bend them for you. 

[jddaigneault]

If the ball flight is consistently a draw, bend them 1-2 degrees flat. You can always get the lie angle readjusted after getting lessons. 

I’d also recommend looking at his posture. Is he too far from the ball, or too hunched? It might be he needs to creep in on the ball or stand up straighter. 

If he looks like a sprinkler spreading the ball all over the place, start with lessons. 

[Grit Golf]

How tall is he in golf shoes and what is his wrist to floor measurement?

If his static measurements say to adjust flat (you can use a ping chart or pings nflight web page) that will back up the impact tape results. @cnosil is right - my coach uses the sharpie test. The sharpie test is probably the most important data point of 3 three.

If all 3 of those point to bending flat then you can pretty confidently bend the clubs until his swing changes (should he get lessons etc).

[RickyBobby_PR]

10 hours ago, Grit Golf said:

How tall is he in golf shoes and what is his wrist to floor measurement?

If his static measurements say to adjust flat (you can use a ping chart or pings nflight web page) that will back up the impact tape results. @cnosil is right - my coach uses the sharpie test. The sharpie test is probably the most important data point of 3 three.

If all 3 of those point to bending flat then you can pretty confidently bend the clubs until his swing changes (should he get lessons etc).

Nobody uses static measurements for fittings including ping. It’s a tool on their website for virtual fittings. @Golfspy_CG2 was at TPI and iirc had a conversation about this with the fitter who had some sort of reply about you don’t hit a golf ball standing up with your arms to the side.

The lie tape as mentioned is a method that has been mostly thrown out and the use of a line on the ball that gets transferred to the clubface is how some do it now and the experienced ones look at ball flight as well ask what a persons miss is and what type of shape they are hitting.

based on the lie tape is evident he comes in with the heel and should go flat. That’s the quickest and easiest fix until he chooses to take lessons and/or does a proper fitting 

[Grit Golf]

I’d politely disagree in this instance - static numbers are 1 data point, and as a new golfer, he might be doing something silly in his brand new swing which could change a ton as he figures it out. I haven’t see his swing, so the static numbers are relevant because they provide a sanity check on the impact tape and could prevent engraining a silly swing motion by bending the clubs to fit his brand new, possibly silly swing. If static numbers have him at 4 up and the impact tape is 2 flat, it might make sense to pump the brakes on equipment changes. Static numbers take about 30 seconds to measure.

He should also do the sharpie test, if all 3 of those point to 1-2 flat, great! If they are all over the place, hold off.

 

 

[ChitownM2]

Guess the popular opinion is to get them bent. 

Posting a photo at address or a video of a swing would probably go a long way in helping people on here confirm if changing the lie really is warranted. 

IMO golf is a sport where it's nearly impossible for most people to self diagnose their their own issues. If someone is serious enough to drop $500+ on new cobra irons then he should have $45 to spend on a 30 min lesson to figure out if he is on the right path forward before spending $45 on an equipment adjustment that may not be necessary and could potentially hurt his development. 

He could probably even go back to wherever he bought the club's and ask them to take a look and see if he needs the lie adjustment. They certainly would have done that for free if he had asked before purchasing and probably still will under the assumption that if the answer is yes, they will get paid to do it.

[null]

If you're already missing the ball to the right, then flattening the lie angle will only make your miss worse.

Lie angle should be adjusted for ball flight,not how the club interacts with the turf 

[RickyBobby_PR]

10 hours ago, Grit Golf said:

I’d politely disagree in this instance - static numbers are 1 data point, and as a new golfer, he might be doing something silly in his brand new swing which could change a ton as he figures it out. I haven’t see his swing, so the static numbers are relevant because they provide a sanity check on the impact tape and could prevent engraining a silly swing motion by bending the clubs to fit his brand new, possibly silly swing. If static numbers have him at 4 up and the impact tape is 2 flat, it might make sense to pump the brakes on equipment changes. Static numbers take about 30 seconds to measure.

He should also do the sharpie test, if all 3 of those point to 1-2 flat, great! If they are all over the place, hold off.

 

 

Again there are practically no fitters using static measurements because it’s not a useful data point in actual fittings. Just like the old reliable lie board has now become pretty much obsolete in fittings and in the fittings I’ve watched from company reps or my fitter it’s used to show the golfer what’s happening and why they are recommending a certain lie angle and not as an actual fitting tool. At my titleist Thursday’s fitting they didn’t even have a lie board. Other than a starting point for getting into a baseline of where to start for a ping online fitting. There is nothing static about a golf swing. My old fitter who is now the main guy at TPC sawgrass was a ping fitter of the year. His static fitting would have him playing 1/2” over and depending on brand 1 flat to 1 upright. His actually fitting resulted in standard length and std to 1* flat.

@Golfspy_CG2 would usually be in 1” over and usually some uprightness. His titleist fitting had him in standard length and even could have gone shorter. He’s 6’7”

Ball flight is the biggest thing that should be looked at. 
 

Edit: Ping was the big proponent for static fittings and some ping shops even had the chart posted on the wall to show wrist to floor and hand measurements and how they matched to their color codes. Since the release of the i20s I’ve been fit by ping reps one of which is now the PXG tour rep for the LPGA tour, twice from ping fitters from their HQ who drive a van around the country in the summer times and by the precious fitter at my range. None of them ever did a static fitting on me. One would thing a company that has static fitting listed on their website as part of the fitting process would use it in every fitting vice rarely, if ever use it. I’ve worked demo days where ping was in attendance and their rep and demo day staff never used a static measurement. 
 

For someone that doesn’t have access to do a fitting using ping webfit tool is a good start but even they state the importance of a dynamic fitting and that the static fit should get a person within 1 color code. 

[Grit Golf]

It’s just my $.02, Im not a pro, but my thought is that a dynamic fitting is slightly less useful for someone who has fewer than a half dozen trips to the range under their belt, has no established swing, and has never taken a lesson. They may be delivering the club 2 flat today, and 2 up next week and when they get some lessons they may normalize out to within a color code of their static numbers.

I’m not saying Bryson or Matt Wolff, or even an experienced golfer, should use a wrist to floor chart to be fit. In this case we’re talking about a brand new player. I think it’s a bit dogmatic to not at least consider static numbers as one data point. 

[RickyBobby_PR]

44 minutes ago, Grit Golf said:

It’s just my $.02, Im not a pro, but my thought is that a dynamic fitting is slightly less useful for someone who has fewer than a half dozen trips to the range under their belt, has no established swing, and has never taken a lesson. They may be delivering the club 2 flat today, and 2 up next week and when they get some lessons they may normalize out to within a color code of their static numbers.

I’m not saying Bryson or Matt Wolff, or even an experienced golfer, should use a wrist to floor chart to be fit. In this case we’re talking about a brand new player. I think it’s a bit dogmatic to not at least consider static numbers as one data point. 

You are delving into the chicken and egg thing again. In a perfect world nobody would boy equipment until they had lessons and and had a good swing down but that’s just not reality. 

TXG has done a video on why everyone should get fit even those who are high handicaps. They also talk about how fittings should be some form of instruction as well. @Golfspy_CG2 experienced this with his fitting at TXG and it changed the fitting.

Dynamic fittings are how every proper fitting is done. Someone that doesn’t have time to practice or isn’t looking to take the game serious can benefit from a dynamic fitting because the end result will be a club that reduces the dispersion of shots and help with some consistency of delivery of the club. Yes that persons may have a swing that is over the top or too far from the inside but instead of having to create a swing based on the current club setup that will lead to continued inconsistency and bigger misses the clubs that were fit to them will work in conjunction with their swing so instead of fighting the club they can just swing their swing and play with that swing. 
 

The vast majority of golfers ive seen get fit aren’t taking lessons and like many of us have swing faults. They get fit to find the best club for them and their swing. 

[Golfspy_CG2]

Yeah, true every fitting I've had in the past 3 years or so, and off the top of my head, that's 5 or 6, not one has used a wrist to floor measurement.  Granted they all have been at OEM HQ or a place like TXG, where they have access to cameras that measure all of that. 

But yeah, for the true beginner that can't or chooses not to go the full fitting route, I can see the need to do a at home wrist to floor measurement, and use the companies online chart to determine what length club he should have.   It's certainly better than guessing if the player has no previous data to go on and isn't going to be properly fit. 

[zrumble]

On 6/29/2020 at 2:55 PM, Jalvino said:

So my brother bought new clubs from cobra he’s brand new to golf so he wasn’t going to spend the money to get fitted. So he got a stock set and I noticed at the range is he always hitting heel 1st so I threw on a sticker and here’s the result can anyone help with what he needs done ?

Pretty good stuff. I feel like most beginners I’ve helped get steep, which drops the toe into the ground first. Hitting ground heel first is generally the lesser of the two evils, unless there is a big loop in the swing. But who knows, he could be the next Furyk or Wolfe. 
 

Take lessons is an easy answer, and a good coach will help him understand how to deliver the club into impact. This might cure his lie angle problems. I suspect not if he has to fight his natural movement patterns. 
 

I would bend the irons flat until his swing produced a level ground interaction. Only then you can tweak his face-to-path angle consistently. If the heel is digging different amounts on every swing, particularly in different turf conditions, the face will come into the ball at a different angle to the path. Lie angle can be monitored as his skills improve. 

[WaffleHouseTour]

On 6/30/2020 at 6:43 AM, cnosil said:

Based on the impact tape you need to go flatter. The recommended approach is 1* at a time.

I am assuming you are using a lie board. That method has fallen out of favor and the method below is considered a better way to check lie angle.

https://www.golfinred.com/fit-lie-angle-without-lie-board/

Thanks for this one...  For years I’ve always laced irons that were two degrees flat - always. But last year I switched to one length cobras and my pro said to purchase them stock and we’d test for lie angles later - we’ll we both got busy and later never came. I’ve been wondering about them - I have a single club that always seems to start to the right.  No TXG near me - their videos on lie angles really sent me down a rabbit hole - but also made me fear the lie board and tape.  So glad to find another way to test on my own.  Off to get a sharpie...

[GaDawg]

https://thesandtrap.com/blogs/entry/18-sharpie-test-easy-way-to-check-your-lie-angles/