Decade golf app - my 6 month journey

[cnosil]

3 hours ago, StrokerAce said:

Yep - I don't disagree. 

Maybe "called him out" was too harsh. I was just looking for tangible examples. I wasn't aware of anything besides Will Z.

Zalatoris is probably the person he works closely with.  He has indicated that many players have taken his seminars but like most OEMs he may not be able to mention their names.  But some are: Austin Ernst on the LPGA,  I am assuming Aaron Wise, he mentions Maverik McNeely in one of the DECADE videos, Morikawa,  I know there are a few more in the DECADE videos but can't find them.  

What I am also seeing is changes in how the announcers are discussing golf; specifically Brandel Chamblee, and how the broadcasts are showing data/information.   

He also discusses how PGA players are changing how they have played holes from previous years.  Is it strokes gained or DECADE;  could probably make an argument for each.  

The program as a whole is about how to think about golf and expectation management.   None of the information is rocket science,  but hearing someone go through the information in one package is what is "revolutionary".    

As for the expense,  the foundations information is roughly the cost of a couple of lessons or rounds.  

 

43 minutes ago, FrogginBullfish said:

But on the topic of DECADE, Scott is doing a free webinar tomorrow afternoon at 1pm Central Time. I'm not sure if it's still open for registration however but I'll be attending.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using MyGolfSpy mobile app
 

I'll be on as well.

[GolfSpy AFG]

10 hours ago, cnosil said:

Zalatoris is probably the person he works closely with.  He has indicated that many players have taken his seminars but like most OEMs he may not be able to mention their names.  But some are: Austin Ernst on the LPGA,  I am assuming Aaron Wise, he mentions Maverik McNeely in one of the DECADE videos, Morikawa,  I know there are a few more in the DECADE videos but can't find them.  

What I am also seeing is changes in how the announcers are discussing golf; specifically Brandel Chamblee, and how the broadcasts are showing data/information.   

He also discusses how PGA players are changing how they have played holes from previous years.  Is it strokes gained or DECADE;  could probably make an argument for each.  

The program as a whole is about how to think about golf and expectation management.   None of the information is rocket science,  but hearing someone go through the information in one package is what is "revolutionary".    

As for the expense,  the foundations information is roughly the cost of a couple of lessons or rounds.  

 

I'll be on as well.

I missed out on the webinar but hope you and/or @FrogginBullfishwon't mind circling back and sharing how that goes (without giving away the farm of course).

Doc Redman is another he's mentioned on Hack It Out I believe.  

[cnosil]

I missed out on the webinar but hope you and/or [mention=83976]FrogginBullfish[/mention]won't mind circling back and sharing how that goes (without giving away the farm of course).
Doc Redman is another he's mentioned on Hack It Out I believe.  

I’ll definitely do that. I have gone through the foundations program and like most of the content. Some of the things are a little more than I am willing to do. The program as a whole is designed to take what you would learn over time and compress it down into a shorter timespan.

If you want to learn the basics about decade, Scott’s YouTube videos provide great insight.

[FrogginBullfish]

If you're interested in Scott's webinar today, here's how you can join. Webinar starts in about 10 minutes.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using MyGolfSpy mobile app

[GolfSpy AFG]

18 minutes ago, FrogginBullfish said:

If you're interested in Scott's webinar today, here's how you can join. Webinar starts in about 10 minutes.
 

 

Sent from my Pixel 2 using MyGolfSpy mobile app
 

 

Thanks!  Just jumped on.

[BMart519]

UGH missed it. 

[GolfSpy AFG]

For what its worth, I DM'd Scott and asked about his thoughts on Foundations vs Elite for someone of my skill level and situation.  My main concern being I don't want to sink money into Foundations only to be wanting more.  

His response:  "Either is fine, the material is the same for the most part, Foundations just slows it down and forces you to digest it before moving on."

Foundations it is for me then!

  

[GolfSpy AFG]

Just pulled the trigger and signed up for Foundations.  I'll post updates on here as I go.

[FrogginBullfish]

For those who attended the webinar, here's the Webb Simpson quote Scott mentioned.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using MyGolfSpy mobile app

[cnosil]

Today's webinar was great; while I know Scott is trying to get people to buy the program, it was still nice for he and Lou Stagner to spend an hour and 15 minutes giving to a webinar on DECADE to people that retweeted a post.  

Lou spent the first 15 minutes talking about expectation management;  the first E in DECADE.   Yes,  DECADE is an acronym.  Scott considers expectation management to be one of the most important parts of decade.   Understanding realistic expectations allows you to properly assess your game. 

Scott then kind of assessed some of the masters play.   Talked about how big of a mistake it was for Jordan to try and hit out of the trees and that it wasn't worth the risk.  Basically maintaining discipline for 72 holes is very difficult.  

He talked about shot patterns and why using the DECADE shot patterns works for most handicap levels even players shooting in the 90s.

He talked about a shot that Will hit (think it was 17) where he hit it to 5 feet.    Will told Scott he heard a patron say that he was shooting at flags.  Will told Scott he wasn't; hit target was 13 feet left of the flag.

Two big things that Scott stressed is that you should only work the driver in one direction and focus on speed drills for putting.   

 

I've gone through the foundations program and have to say while what is discussed sounds easy,  it is really hard to maintain the focus on the DECADE principles for 18 holes.  

 

[FrogginBullfish]

That putting drill he outlined seems like its utterly and absolutely brutal but it's definitely one that should improve speed control.

Today's webinar was great; while I know Scott is trying to get people to buy the program, it was still nice for he and Lou Stagner to spend an hour and 15 minutes giving to a webinar on DECADE to people that retweeted a post.  
Lou spent the first 15 minutes talking about expectation management;  the first E in DECADE.   Yes,  DECADE is an acronym.  Scott considers expectation management to be one of the most important parts of decade.   Understanding realistic expectations allows you to properly assess your game. 
Scott then kind of assessed some of the masters play.   Talked about how big of a mistake it was for Jordan to try and hit out of the trees and that it wasn't worth the risk.  Basically maintaining discipline for 72 holes is very difficult.  
He talked about shot patterns and why using the DECADE shot patterns works for most handicap levels even players shooting in the 90s.
He talked about a shot that Will hit (think it was 17) where he hit it to 5 feet.    Will told Scott he heard a patron say that he was shooting at flags.  Will told Scott he wasn't; hit target was 13 feet left of the flag.
Two big things that Scott stressed is that you should only work the driver in one direction and focus on speed drills for putting.   
 
I've gone through the foundations program and have to say while what is discussed sounds easy,  it is really hard to maintain the focus on the DECADE principles for 18 holes.  
 

Sent from my Pixel 2 using MyGolfSpy mobile app

[cnosil]

11 minutes ago, FrogginBullfish said:

That putting drill he outlined seems like its utterly and absolutely brutal but it's definitely one that should improve speed control.

 

I've done it a few times and yes it is a great drill.   We have talked about it before in some thread,  but you can see the drill at 55:37 mark in this video on Scott's youtube site

 

 

 

 

 

[ncwoz]

11 hours ago, cnosil said:

He talked about shot patterns and why using the DECADE shot patterns works for most handicap levels even players shooting in the 90s.

This is something that's always been in the back of my mind about DECADE. If a 60 yard dispersion is a good number for PGA tour players to use, I know for a fact my dispersion is wider. So I get caught between either taking on hazards with a little more risk, or dropping back to a shorter club even if the dispersion cone technically does fit in non-trouble areas. Not sure if that's actually what Scott would suggest though.

[analyticandrew]

11 hours ago, FrogginBullfish said:

That putting drill he outlined seems like its utterly and absolutely brutal but it's definitely one that should improve speed control.

 

Sent from my Pixel 2 using MyGolfSpy mobile app
 

 

Which one did he reference? The quarters drill? 

I started this thread and realized how poor of a job I did updating it. I'll blame the fact that I have ADHD and was diagnosed in the middle of the 6 month journey

I didn't continue after the six months with DECADE, mainly because it was the "offseason" and I didn't want to pay for it. Thinking about getting back into it as I hope to play some competitive golf this season and the yardage books alone might be worth it for these courses I won't be able to play in advance!

[cnosil]

Which one did he reference? The quarters drill? 

The standard distance drill from Cameron McCormick. Starts at 5 feet and goes back to 40. My post above links to one of his YouTube posts that explains.

[cnosil]

This is something that's always been in the back of my mind about DECADE. If a 60 yard dispersion is a good number for PGA tour players to use, I know for a fact my dispersion is wider. So I get caught between either taking on hazards with a little more risk, or dropping back to a shorter club even if the dispersion cone technically does fit in non-trouble areas. Not sure if that's actually what Scott would suggest though.

You could probably ask him. He talked a little about why he says not to worry about larger patterns. Basically, and someone can correct me if I am wrong, but he would say use the normal dispersion he recommends. The reasoning is that if you use the wider pattern and move it around you could put yourself if a spot that will create more issues. You ultimately will hit into those hazards on occasion as you shots can land anywhere in you pattern. That said, you could go through his tee shot selection flow chart and adjust for your pattern.

[analyticandrew]

58 minutes ago, cnosil said:

You could probably ask him. He talked a little about why he says not to worry about larger patterns. Basically, and someone can correct me if I am wrong, but he would say use the normal dispersion he recommends. The reasoning is that if you use the wider pattern and move it around you could put yourself if a spot that will create more issues. You ultimately will hit into those hazards on occasion as you shots can land anywhere in you pattern. That said, you could go through his tee shot selection flow chart and adjust for your pattern.

My thought is this:

I love DECADE, and I subscribe to Scott's thoughts on not worrying about larger patterns (my driver dispersion is not great, but not horrible). BUT, if your driver dispersion is 100-120 yards wide, then my recommendation is to spend $ on lessons, not on DECADE. That's not to say there isn't valuable content for you! But DECADE is not the answer to your problems. 

 

[THEZIPR23]

10 minutes ago, analyticandrew said:

My thought is this:

I love DECADE, and I subscribe to Scott's thoughts on not worrying about larger patterns (my driver dispersion is not great, but not horrible). BUT, if your driver dispersion is 100-120 yards wide, then my recommendation is to spend $ on lessons, not on DECADE. That's not to say there isn't valuable content for you! But DECADE is not the answer to your problems. 

 

This is true. However I am going to guess that there are some serious outliers to get to that level of dispersion.

5 hours ago, ncwoz said:

This is something that's always been in the back of my mind about DECADE. If a 60 yard dispersion is a good number for PGA tour players to use, I know for a fact my dispersion is wider. So I get caught between either taking on hazards with a little more risk, or dropping back to a shorter club even if the dispersion cone technically does fit in non-trouble areas. Not sure if that's actually what Scott would suggest though.

Dispersion patterns are not the end all be all. Yes they will give a good guideline but there will be variance within them as well. 

I for instance have a driver dispersion of about 70 yards. However I can and will increase that to 100 yards at times, but I don't change my strategy because of that. It just means I am not that good. He does suggest that getting the driver dispersion down to about 75 yards is perfectly fine. And my guess is that you will be somewhere in that range. 

DECADE will change your thinking on the course and will help you shoot better scores without changing anything mechanically. That I am 99% sure of. 

 

[FrogginBullfish]

I think Scott would technically agree that if your dispersion is that wide, work on your golf swing, but if you can afford lessons and DECADE, that would be sort of the ideal situation.

My thought is this:
I love DECADE, and I subscribe to Scott's thoughts on not worrying about larger patterns (my driver dispersion is not great, but not horrible). BUT, if your driver dispersion is 100-120 yards wide, then my recommendation is to spend $ on lessons, not on DECADE. That's not to say there isn't valuable content for you! But DECADE is not the answer to your problems. 
 

Sent from my Pixel 2 using MyGolfSpy mobile app

[edingc]

6 hours ago, ncwoz said:

This is something that's always been in the back of my mind about DECADE. If a 60 yard dispersion is a good number for PGA tour players to use, I know for a fact my dispersion is wider. So I get caught between either taking on hazards with a little more risk, or dropping back to a shorter club even if the dispersion cone technically does fit in non-trouble areas. Not sure if that's actually what Scott would suggest though.

Had this same question and @THEZIPR23 and Scott addressed it a few months back on Twitter:

[ncwoz]

3 hours ago, edingc said:

Had this same question and @THEZIPR23 and Scott addressed it a few months back on Twitter:

Look at that! Not surprised someone else had the same question...now is it a coincidence or not that it's someone who plays the same courses as me? Thanks for sharing!

[edingc]

4 hours ago, ncwoz said:

Look at that! Not surprised someone else had the same question...now is it a coincidence or not that it's someone who plays the same courses as me? Thanks for sharing!

Of course! We have so many courses around here that are so tightly-lined that DECADE-type strategy isn't so obvious all of the time.

I've redone my strategy now to look more at "hazards" reached on a line with distance and less at hazards left and right. Scott not wrong in his reply to me, I'm very likely to hit a shorter club into the trees as well. But there are a few holes where driver is simply too long and would run my into trouble on my intended line. On those holes I'm looking to drop back slightly to avoid the straightaway hazards.

[HardcoreLooper]

@edingc / @ncwoz - I'm curious if the nature of the trees plays any role in the decision making?  The course where I play the majority of my rounds is lined with trees, and I look at these trees almost like out of bounds because:

• If you hit in them, you'll lose the ball about 50% of the time (lots of low limbs, bushes, scrub, and leaves)
• When you find the ball, it'll be unplayable about 50% of the time
• If you find it and it's not unplayable, you can't advance the ball significantly toward the hole

So effectively, hitting it into these trees is a 1.75 stroke penalty on average.  

On courses where balls in the trees are generally findable and often can be advanced toward the hole meaningfully, I've stopped figuring them into my tee shot strategy.

My daughter went to a golf camp at Michigan State a few years ago, and she remarked that you could actually find and hit the ball out of the trees at the courses she played. 

[ncwoz]

6 hours ago, HardcoreLooper said:

@edingc / @ncwoz - I'm curious if the nature of the trees plays any role in the decision making?  The course where I play the majority of my rounds is lined with trees, and I look at these trees almost like out of bounds because:

• If you hit in them, you'll lose the ball about 50% of the time (lots of low limbs, bushes, scrub, and leaves)
• When you find the ball, it'll be unplayable about 50% of the time
• If you find it and it's not unplayable, you can't advance the ball significantly toward the hole

So effectively, hitting it into these trees is a 1.75 stroke penalty on average.  

On courses where balls in the trees are generally findable and often can be advanced toward the hole meaningfully, I've stopped figuring them into my tee shot strategy.

My daughter went to a golf camp at Michigan State a few years ago, and she remarked that you could actually find and hit the ball out of the trees at the courses she played. 

It kinda depends on which course and which hole specifically, but there's some where trees are really thick and being in them causes a lot more headache. Other spots the trees may just be sparse and it's more a matter of just hoping you're lucky and don't end up right behind a trunk or something. I'm a lot more apt to take on the trees if it's a par 5, because I figure I have another stroke to get me out of the trees if needed, and if I hit it down the middle I'm giving myself a chance at hitting the green in 2. But there's certainly some places where the trees are dead and I try to avoid them with shorter clubs off the tee.

[edingc]

7 hours ago, HardcoreLooper said:

@edingc / @ncwoz - I'm curious if the nature of the trees plays any role in the decision making?  The course where I play the majority of my rounds is lined with trees, and I look at these trees almost like out of bounds because:

• If you hit in them, you'll lose the ball about 50% of the time (lots of low limbs, bushes, scrub, and leaves)
• When you find the ball, it'll be unplayable about 50% of the time
• If you find it and it's not unplayable, you can't advance the ball significantly toward the hole

So effectively, hitting it into these trees is a 1.75 stroke penalty on average.  

On courses where balls in the trees are generally findable and often can be advanced toward the hole meaningfully, I've stopped figuring them into my tee shot strategy.

My daughter went to a golf camp at Michigan State a few years ago, and she remarked that you could actually find and hit the ball out of the trees at the courses she played. 

@ncwoz covered it pretty well but here's a few example holes from my home course. There are only a few tree areas that have underbrush, so unless you're on the outskirts of the course and hit one OB you likely can play a shot out. 

Hole 1 - 305 yard par 4. You're not getting back to the hole from anywhere on the right side, but you don't want to be long or left of the two trees on the left. This is a hole I used to hit driver on but find my Super Hybrid leaves me with ~50 yards and can't reach the big tree on the left. With driver I was way more likely to be right in the trees or left and probably re-teeing.

Hole 3 - 510-ish par 5. Left trees are full of underbrush and ball will be gone. Trees to the right you can punch back out but unlikely to advance. Being a par 5 you'd think driver but the big tree on the left side of the fairway really blocks you out. I've had better luck sitting back short of the tree and then hitting a hybrid up near the green because there is a big bail out area right.

Hole 13 - Another short par 4. Here's where the hit driver strategy is better, and in the past I tried using an iron here but found myself in trouble more often than not. The hole is short enough that the driver actually gets you out of trouble and irons leave more trees in play.

Not all courses around here are like this - but as you'll notice at biggest our fairways are 40 yards wide and almost all of them are tree lined. Only a few holes really allow you to go for it without worrying about trees.

[StrokerAce]

what would DECADE suggest from here?

This is the first hole.

if you want to carry the water - 200;

Do you go for the square (243) with a 35 yard wide landing area or play to the circle with a more generous landing area?
again...first hole of the day. 

(FWIW I drew this on Google Earth on the web. That is a bad a** app!)

 

[cnosil]

what would DECADE suggest from here?
This is the first hole.
if you want to carry the water - 200;
Do you go for the square (243) with a 35 yard wide landing area or play to the circle with a more generous landing area?
again...first hole of the day. 
(FWIW I drew this on Google Earth on the web. That is a bad a** app!)
 

You can use his decision chart to see the recommendation. I found it on his Twitter feed. The first hole of the day is irrelevant; you should be prepared to hit the necessary shot on any hole.

[StrokerAce]

...interesting. thanks for the flow chart.

big time disagree with the first hole being irrelevant; esp if you aren't able to warm up prior to your round. 

in theory - yeah, but not in practice. plenty of evidence of that; look at Hideki's first hole on Sunday. 

I think you should always hit the club you're confident and comfortable with at the time. If not your odds of success go way down. 

Again - in theory you should be confident and comfortable with all of your clubs, but c'mon, we all know that isn't reality.

[cnosil]

...interesting. thanks for the flow chart.
big time disagree with the first hole being irrelevant; esp if you aren't able to warm up prior to your round. 
in theory - yeah, but not in practice. plenty of evidence of that; look at Hideki's first hole on Sunday. 
I think you should always hit the club you're confident and comfortable with at the time. If not your odds of success go way down. 
Again - in theory you should be confident and comfortable with all of your clubs, but c'mon, we all know that isn't reality.

You can find lots of information on decade by searching the media on Scott’s twittter and YouTube.

I agree many people don’t warm up and aren’t prepared to start a round. Confidence and commitment get into the mental aspects of the game that Scott talks about in DECADE

[edingc]

1 hour ago, StrokerAce said:

what would DECADE suggest from here?

This is the first hole.

if you want to carry the water - 200;

Do you go for the square (243) with a 35 yard wide landing area or play to the circle with a more generous landing area?
again...first hole of the day. 

(FWIW I drew this on Google Earth on the web. That is a bad a** app!)

 

Curious how you play this hole? And also, how tall are the trees nearest the left side past the water? Can you punch out from under them should it get caught up? 

My first glance thought is to hit whatever club you can carry 220 consistently on a line just to the right of what you'e drawn. 5 wood, 3 wood, hybrid, whatever. My aggressive play would be to take a similar line to what you've drawn with driver.

Personally, knowing my shot shapes and misses, I would feel less comfortable laying back on this hole because I'm quite likely to hook my 5/6 iron into the water playing for that 185 landing spot in the fairway.